Do abusive/manipulative men have better relationships than normal ones?

Opening_Tell9388 · 2023-08-17T15:40:30+00:00

You act like these toxic dudes haven't been heart broken. All the dudes who created TRP and the Manosphere did so because they were hurt.

Hurt people hurt people. If you would like to add to the cycle then, by all means. Just know that you're just making the world more shitty. But do you even care?

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-08-17T15:39:02+00:00

Yes they do. The relationship is better on their end because they get everything they want while their partner doesnt.

Sad to me most men on this forum are here because they are becoming more abusive and manipulative.

Asatmaya · 2023-08-17T15:34:56+00:00

As with everything else, the answer is about moderation, balance.

The same traits defined as "toxic masculinity" are the same traits we all see so many women pursuing, and that is a clue; it's not the traits, themselves, it is about how they express themselves and to what extent.

My father was arrogant and on the edge of emotionally abusive, but my mother put up with him for 50 years because he had to back up his arrogance and hold himself to the same standards he applied to others, which was both an impressive feat of moral virtue and extraordinarily difficult to grow up with.

And there's a lesson, too; I felt that he was too strict about such matters, and swung perhaps too far to the passive and congenial mode of relationships... which has been disastrous.

TelevisionGloomy5458 · 2023-08-17T17:50:56+00:00

Read “why does he do that?” By Lundy Bancroft. I do think there is a short term quick reward for being abusive but the long term effects are pretty horrible, often ending with unnecessary escalation and eventually jail time for the man at least and hospital time for the female. Lundy worked with abusive men who were court ordered to go to his counseling. Also I think it’s valuable to get a man’s take on other men. I think abusive men do it and continue to do it for the short term benefits, they do get benefits. They basically have a slave in the woman. But the long term consequences… it’s like a drug addict. Everything is wonderful for the man at first. But the power is addicting. Intoxicating and he wants more and more and then it escalates to physical and then it escalates to jail. Ultimately both lives are wrecked

hannahg000 · 2023-08-17T15:55:41+00:00

i don’t really understand the point people are trying to make when they bring up this argument. these men and women in these relationships are nothing to aspire to. the men are abusive and violent. the women are battered. if they have children, they will end up fucked in the head. and are more likely to seek out these same relationship types.

statistically, children from heathy two parent homes will not end up in these situations (not saying it doesn’t still happen). i think it says more about the state of child raising outcomes then anything else

John_Oakman · 2023-08-17T16:38:22+00:00

Genuine moral virtues are independent of worldly results, and overt douchebaggry is less despicable than ulterior intentions/motives.

Remote-Classic-3532 · 2023-08-17T16:50:31+00:00

No. Most abusive behavior stems from extreme insecurity, they become angry because they can never be truly comfortable in their relationship. They constantly feel out of control and are using abusive behavior to compensate for their own inadequacies, of which they are abundantly aware of. They might seem to be thriving on a level of power, but inside they’re miserable and in constant fear of losing everything.

MidoriEgg · 2023-08-17T18:06:44+00:00

I think abuse comes in such different forms and manifestations that there’s no straight answer to this question. In general, abusive people I know or have worked with are miserable low lives who are in and out of jail and have addictions that lead to/will lead to debilitating mental and physical health issues, but I know not every abuser is like that, and some are a lot more cunning.

Also, not every abuser is a dominant alpha male, some of the worst ones I’ve come across are socially very meek, but are manipulative monsters behind closed doors. The most dangerous person is someone who thinks of themselves as a victim.

richard_golbes · 2023-08-17T15:40:26+00:00

No.

Abuse and manipulation in a relationship is - to a large degree - a manifestation of profound anxiety around control. The person abusing and manipulating is plagued with fear, doubt, insecurity, etc. and is not able to experience the level of happiness or contentment that a normal, healthy person in a relationship will.

Zealousideal-Sell137 · 2023-08-17T15:42:33+00:00

I can give a woman's perspective.

Needy men have a vibe, a desparate eager to please type of vibe that is a turn off to women.

These 'abusive/manipulative' guys aren't assholes, they just have options and want sex, not commitment.

Many of them tell you what you wanna hear, and then disappear.

It's annoying AF, and it hurts many women though. I'm literally dating a few guys like that. They don't message first, they don't call or message the next day after dates. Then suddenly on a Thur they wanna meet up on the weekend.

Women (myself included) fall for it because we want these men. These are the 20% you guys speak about.

I work with a couple guys like that, right now my male best friend is messaging me asking me advice on how to balance 5 women who wanna see him this weekend!

He's not an asshole, he's actually a really good hearted guy, but he thinks with his fucking dick and hurts women all the time, no matter how much I try to tell him he's hurting them he continues to do so.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2023-08-17T16:13:23+00:00

considering normal men are not getting relationships until the woman is in her 30s yes they do have

TopNYJeweler · 2023-08-17T15:27:46+00:00

I would not say they have better relationships, but they get more sex.

Women find them more "assertive", "strong", etc. and being bad automatically means you don't care as much of social expectation, so obviously that makes you more independent.

In the past, women were probably more likely to survive dating those men than weaker good men, and probably they still have that drive in them.

Reality feels so cruel.

AhsokaSolo · 2023-08-17T17:04:13+00:00

If this shit really worked, birth rates wouldn't be declining around the world as women gain more freedom to stay TF out of those manipulative/abusive relationships.

BrummieAMN19 · 2023-08-17T17:10:08+00:00

From someone who was the abuser and manipulator no, in the short term it’s all great but in the end it ended up in flames and me having to go to into therapy and a psychiatric hospital for a personality disorder cause my whole life was in tatters. That whole relationship(and narcissism in general) is summed as “why did I do that?”

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-08-17T16:14:42+00:00

No! They have miserable girlfriends/wives who will eventually get disgusted and leave them. Then those men will end up here talking about the hypergamy of women.

saraimarsena · 2023-08-17T15:46:36+00:00

people with low self esteem, unhealthy attachment styles and toxic traits can thrive in toxic relationships.

having experienced both, i’m much more loving, affectionate and sexual for a man who treats me well that I can trust, compared to someone who treated me poorly.

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-08-17T23:57:05+00:00

No, they are not happy. Why else would they be abusive? They clearly hate their gf and everything she does. They are miserable people at heart tbh.

Aimie777 · 2023-08-18T02:34:27+00:00

Abusive ppl are unbelievable.. unfuckingbelievable..

Just makes me stomach sour.. :// makes me puke.

They usually do not have boundaries as well..

Safinated · 2023-08-17T17:39:47+00:00

It’s better for them, of course

Dictatorships are always better for dictators than republics

asdatafaweasd · 2023-08-17T15:42:33+00:00

they 100% get treated better

HmanTheChicken · 2023-08-17T15:27:39+00:00

Just interested in this because people love talking about “alphas,” but realistically people who are toxic or abusive have even more of those qualities

EverVigilant1 · 2023-08-17T17:08:43+00:00

No. They get more and better sex, though.

kkkan2020 · 2023-08-17T16:25:57+00:00

They sure know what buttons to push because they are able to rope them in like flies to honey

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MouthSandTeethTongue · 2023-08-17T15:32:56+00:00

Difficult to say. Some people thrive (in some sense) in inane, toxic relationships. They just can't help themselves.

physious · 2023-08-17T16:04:46+00:00

Abusive? Definitely not.

Manipulative? Only in the short term, before they found out who you really are. It's usually not sustainable. That's why your examples say these people complain about their ex. It might've been better for a little bit but it clearly didn't work out in the end.

OptimistInHell · 2023-08-17T19:25:30+00:00

Imma say many of you are the kind of people who have very generous criteria for what makes an abusive/manipulative man and sus ideas of what's a normal and better relationship.

daddysgotanew · 2023-08-17T19:47:24+00:00

Probably. People who aren’t afraid to cross boundaries and are somewhat tactful/sneaky about how they do it tend to the the most successful. It’s why CEO’s of companies are usually men with forceful dispositions, strong personality traits and often hints of narcissism. That’s what it takes to get the power.

jverveslayer · 2023-08-18T00:25:46+00:00

No, they don't.

You have x number of guys who complain about x number of bad relationship outcomes- being cheated on, dead bedrooms, being rejected, being compared to exes, etc

Then you have x number of women who talk about how they would do everything for their toxic ex and now don’t want to be vulnerable anymore, or what have you.

There are different dynamics that toxic relationships can have. The majority of the time this is a 2-way problem. Think about it - if you ask the partner in either of these situations, are they going to say "yeah, I was an abusive asshole to them"? No, they're going to launch into a negative tirade right back much of the time. Toxic partners almost always believe that their actions were justified.

Yeah, it does happen that someone inexperienced and agreeable gets into a relationship with someone really demanding and abusive/manipulative/selfish/whatever. It's sad when this happens. But I really don't think you'd call that a better relationship than something caring, loving, and supportive

bifewova234 · 2023-08-18T02:05:51+00:00

Everyone should have to post full nudes sans makeup, CVs, rap sheets, drug tests, IQ tests, STD tests, medical records, credit reports, tax returns and balance sheets to increase transparency in dating. All information to be verified by a trusted independent third party.

Aimie777 · 2023-08-18T02:09:50+00:00

No. They're usually divorced, addicted, old, jaded. Like the recent one I've been with, I notice he has delusions, disgusting standards he can't even catch up with, like he just wants someone who accepts him while being unethical.

He should stop using Typology to look for a spouse and see actual single moms he can merge a family with. The standards are too high. They just want someone who fears being loveless, seeks intensity amd wants to be needed. An abusive persom being a predator of those type of people.

And he's even using the kid while being like that, he refuses to grow and change -- but he wants wife that's single, intelligent, wants to be needed, hates being loveless, emotionally resilient like he'll never be. LOL

Abusive ppl are very delusional with super high standards. XDD someone they are not.

Good thing I dodged the bullet.

Ok_Scene_1799 · 2023-08-18T07:39:04+00:00

if women would dislike abusive/manipulative men, there would be a lot less of them.

same if men would dislike hoes and bitches, there would be a lot less of them out there.

"better" compared to majority of men that get no relation ship whatsoever... (for being nice) then you can say yeah better... for them...

IHaveABigDuvet · 2023-08-18T12:57:48+00:00

Depends what you mean by better.

Unfortunately many men desire a woman to control and exploit (see Andrew Tate) so in their eyes its seen as “better”.

But it is also really difficult trying to control someone’s every move and it can be consuming to an abuser. They spend their whole lobes keeping tabs on their partner’ and they feel very disregulated when their partner doesn’t do what they want, or they feel like they are losing control over them.

But most relationship experts - therapists, psychologists etc would state a healthy relationship is much more beneficial.

Andrew Tate would say it’s worth it, his Romanian Judge would say it isn’t.

scwizard · 2023-08-19T03:35:33+00:00

I can say from experience that abusive and manipulative relationships are fucking exhausting. If you ever let up and give her a chance to repair her self esteem or grow a safety net or something you'll lose her.

You have to genuinely hate women to make it work, and I didn't I was just larping.

Round_Homework2903 · 2023-08-21T05:53:09+00:00

Yes, they do I know a best friend who is dating the girl of his dreams and she is hot and young. While me and other men are dating single moms with horrible attitudes

Title	Do abusive/manipulative men have better relationships than normal ones?
Author	HmanTheChicken
Upvotes	9
Comments	100
Date	August 17, 2023 3:26 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/15tqqeg/do_abusivemanipulative_men_have_better/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-abusivemanipulative-men-have-better.1228835 https://theredarchive.com/post/1228835

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