Hypergamy is the core concept which explains human sexual selection and all TRP secondary concepts flow from this one human observation

PollaTronante · 2021-08-29T20:08:56+00:00

I've even seen people on this subreddit make the shockingly absurd argument that men are also hypergamous because men "want the best woman they can get".

"Shockingly absurd", really?

Men do. Everyone does.

How do you possibly disagree with this? Are you willing to sleep with every single woman on this planet who shows you interest? The only reason a man would do that is if he had no options he was actually attracted to. As soon as he has options he's attracted to, he chooses them over the ones he's not. If he has many options he's attracted to, he focuses on the ones he's most attracted to. And this is not a gendered thing.

Also, some women very much do desire sexual diversity and a variety of sexual partners. Have you never heard TRP bitch about how women are all fucking multiple different guys at the same time? You even recognize this, except you rationalize it as not poly because all her men are "above her". Most people don't view the people they sleep with as either "above" or "below" them; in fact, it's much healthier when people don't. TRP is obsessed with doing this for some reason (constantly rating people on 1-10 scales, categorizing all men as alpha or beta, assigning names and characteristics to made up characters like Chad/Brad/Tyrone, arguing about SMV and RMV, comparing how a woman treats them to how he imagines she'd treat the hottest celebrities, assigning top __%, etc.). It's not just unhealthy, but unrealistic.

slavicslothe · 2021-08-29T20:59:25+00:00

I wouldn’t say crazy pills but you’re deep into a cult. You can overgeneralize all you want but it doesn’t change that the prescription that follows from your descriptive reality is “be chad or rope to avoid dying alone”.

It’s actually really sad what the manosphere does to people who had potential to be more.

Submersiv · 2021-08-29T20:01:36+00:00

The real understanding is that hypergamy doesn't work off actual social status but perceived social status via the woman watching the BEHAVIOR of the man. That's the source of confusion on all these "debates".

It literally doesn't matter what the actual social hierarchy is because a social hierarchy is socially constructed and constantly changing. A woman's nature has no biological way of determining what that is. The only way they've evolved to figure that out is by watching the behavior of the man in question. If he's a higher status, he'll display high status behaviors, i.e. not giving a fuck, sleeping with other women, not pedestalizing her like a fucking loser. That's why savvy broke guys can sleep with hot girls, and why Bill Gates gets divorced because he doesn't know how to ACT high status with regards to his woman.

But yes, hypergamy in women is just people redefining common sense that has existed for millions of years, so whoever's arguing against it is really just delusional.

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-08-29T19:45:38+00:00

Am I correct, or am I swallowing crazy pills?

A little of each, but it's hard to parse out how much of either. Hypergamy can be explained by simply wanting power, or at least security, especially when it is thought to be possible to achieve by mating up. Men can't find that (at least not power, sometimes security after a fashion) in a woman so they don't look to women for it.

As for whether women are polygamous or not, people say all the tired cliches from evo psyche, but now that culture has come round to supporting women (via birth control; legal, safe abortion; less stigma around sexuality, more support for single moms, etc), we see that women actually like to fuck quite a bit, so much so that RP came up with a cute term called "the cock carousel" to describe it.

neetykeeno · 2021-08-30T00:03:38+00:00

Lol. How many guys who subscribe to this are also sedentary types with noticeable bellies, jobs they barely pay attention to, credit card debt, and a four hour a day gaming and porn habit who say "ewww no fat chicks" and "ewww no single mothers" and "ewwww no old broads women my own age are worn out" even though fat, same age, single with kids or various combinations of those are like 99 percent of the SMP and RMP that is actually available to them.

I mean just saying, guys, just saying. You can't whine incessantly like a defective old aircon unit then expect us just to forget what y'all was whining about.

cvslengthbucketlist · 2021-08-29T19:08:38+00:00

I agree that men are generally not hypergamous by the literal definition of the word (wanting women of higher social class). But by the same token, I don't think women desiring taller men can be strictly considered hypergamy either, in the sense that being tall doesn't always imply that a man is of higher social class. Nor is it unheard of for short/ugly men to be rich/powerful either.

Height is looks-based in the same way that male perception of female value is heavily looks-based. So it's more like both genders value looks but women also value hypergamy as well. Which seems like common knowledge and pretty well empirically substantiated.

SoMuchForLongevity · 2021-08-29T18:33:46+00:00

Mostly you're swallowing crazy pills.

Yes, you're going to see people (yes, both men and women) with a mindset like "I'm an individual of quality and I deserve a partner of quality," where "quality" is based in certain social expectations.

You're going to find more people who just meet someone, develop an attraction, and don't worry too hard about whether the next door neighbors are going to consider them a power couple.

I think a lot of the crazy comes from people who can't separate "online dating apps" from "dating." Yes, online dating apps are designed to bring out the worst in us and make dating borderline impossible.

Terrorinthecity1 · 2021-08-29T23:00:18+00:00

The fact that people still don’t think hypergamy is a real thing gave me a new meaning that no matter how obvious something is people rather delude themselves. I don’t even debate it anymore, I just read the responses now.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-08-29T21:13:14+00:00

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SaBahRub · 2021-08-29T22:12:22+00:00

Men are hypergamous because polygamy is illegal in western countries

tonyghow · 2021-08-30T00:16:40+00:00

I think you’re right but only in the extremes.

I think the hypergamy <=> polygamy spectrum is a 3D graph with young attractive feminine women on one corner and successful tall attractive men on the opposite corner. IMO, those are the only ones that behave in the manner you describe. And they typically live in 1st world countries.

But there are other combinations that don’t fit the mold even if the biology desires it. * young, unattractive masculine women who are difficult to live with * dumb attractive broke dudes who can’t keep a job * old overweight women who aren’t desired sexually. * old fat rich dudes who have to pay for sex * young attractive women in third world countries who don’t have any options to escape poverty. * … and more

Many of those groups can’t exercise their hypergamous or polygamous programming even if they wanted to. It probably doesn’t even come into their mind.

Regardless. The only group we can technically use the word “MOST” with, is average people. Most of us do what we can and settle for what we find in our vicinity. I have plenty of friends and family who lock themselves into average monogamous relationships where the only criteria is a similar social status. Average connects with average.

ThrowAwayBro737 · 2021-08-29T18:52:35+00:00

You are not really wrong, its just that this is such a common sense take that people stopped discussing and rehashing it long ago. The only people who still talk about it are the super bluepilled types who get offended at ANY difference between men and women so they have to come up with some reason why hypergamy dont real despite it being blatantly evident.

TRP is all about aping the behaviors and appearances of apex men. The men who actually benefit from hypergamy, the 20% to whom the 80% of women flock.

The top man is the direct opposite of the redditor… the simpering, soy fuelled, liberal, effeminate redditor, who desperately brags about eating ass/pussy, and spends all his days white knighting and supporting feminism.

The born pussy conqueror has no need to qualify himself by being an ally to women. He has an IDGAF, take what I want, “I’m an asshole and what are you going to do about it” mentality, and women love it… when it comes from him.

Be the Chad or die trying. All else is cope

jbo99 · 2021-08-29T19:01:36+00:00

I think there are lots of men who are not in search of the ideal you describe. A lot of us want that deep meaningful relationship with an amazing woman who will be a great mother of our children. Frankly if you aren’t looking for the mother of your children I’d consider you more of a boy than a man honestly. Like what’s the point

06534956 · 2021-08-29T19:49:17+00:00

Men are hypergamous, just as women are. Men are attracted to women for the things that they do not have themselves, ie femininity, beauty, softness, youth, playfulness. Same as women, we are attracted to men who have the things that we don’t have… masculinity, strength, ambition.

Opposites attract, after all.

One thing that you haven’t considered is that the human race has evolved to be more than just the basic, survivalist, and lizard parts of the brain. That part is still there, and often dictates a lot of our experience… but if the only reason men valued women is to satisfy a sexual urge, and to spread the seed, then why would we have such a long evolutionary history of partnerships and marriage?

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Mrs_Drgree · 2021-08-29T18:44:20+00:00

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Glum_Status94 · 2021-08-29T22:23:43+00:00

i don’t know why red pill men act like they are not part of a Clut bro

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-08-29T22:24:00+00:00

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kblkbl165 · 2021-08-30T00:44:19+00:00

These seem to be some extaordinary claims. Do we have any sort of extraordinary evidence for them?

Or is all of it just something we gotta take as "common sense" and a basic conclusion to be reached following "logic"?

yabbobay · 2021-08-30T00:45:26+00:00

Males are NOT hypergamous. Males are polygamous.

Not sure if this is the article I read, but the theory days the opposite of men.

catchtowards12345 · 2021-08-30T03:18:58+00:00

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WilliamWyattD · 2021-08-30T03:39:52+00:00

As a low resolution heuristic for understanding male and female sexuality, the hypergamy vs. polygamy model is fairly accurate and functional.

Where TRP gets into trouble is when they up the resolution and start asserting more than the evidence will support, particularly with respect to certainty levels. Also, mechanisms get more complex as the resolution increases. For example, the much greater raw sexual drive of men compared to women also factors in. This creates an asymmetry in supply and demand that has a profound effect on dynamics.

As later posts point out, at higher resolutions we have to start distinguishing between what women are doing for security and what women are doing for desire. And with respect to the security portion, disentangling culture and biology is quite difficult. And when you strip away the cultural inducements to consider security and provisioning, and it becomes about desire, what exactly does 'marrying up' mean with respect to primarily genetic traits? There is some truth to the idea that as both genders focus more on beauty in the other gender, gender behavior does become more symmetrical with both genders basically trying to optimize, and the 'sexual deficit' created by far greater male libido becomes the driving force: women just have more leverage when optimizing. That said, there remain asymmetries with respect to attraction floor dynamics.

ThrowAwayBro737 · 2021-08-30T07:36:47+00:00

So what is your opinion on what is morally superior, if either one is?: Hypergamy or polygamy? Bonus: Which one is more likely to cheat?

I don't know, but your post made some sense. I think both sexual preferences suck for monogamy. Women do have to be more picky, given that their reproduction rate is 1 child a year and they need security to raise the children. Men can fuck and leave with no consequence, it doesn't matter who they fuck, the goal is pleasure for them. The goal for women is family, at least this is how it's been for centuries when survival meant family. While now, modern women have access to birth control and jobs, they can seek men for pleasure too. What seems to be unfair is that sexual selection is supposedly "Free for all" for men, but selective for women. It's actually fair if you consider the conditions that everyone has the right to "swipe right" but no one is under any obligation to swipe right.

HumanNumber348 · 2021-08-30T09:39:26+00:00

she is not fucking tall dashing stockbrockers on Mondays and short fat bald janitors on Tuesdays.

Because why would she? If she has access to unlimited Chad dick, why would she deliberately go for an uglier guy?

But a man who is highly attractive will absolutely fuck a fashion model on Monday and an overweight aging housewife on Tuesday.

Chad only fucks the overweight aging housewife because he doesn’t have access to the hotties at that moment. If two women stand in front of Chad, he will choose the hottest one, even on Tuesdays.

relish5k · 2021-08-30T12:53:19+00:00

In a societal vacuum women prefer quality over quantity of mates, whereas men would opt for quantity over quality. The issue is that in the 21st century a male cannot exercise his option for quantity without sacrificing his highest quality female option (his beautiful girlfriend will be hella pissed if he fucks the cleaning lady). So even if polygamy does describe male desire, it doesn't really matter when enforced (serial) monogamy is the social normal. Men would prefer to ditch their vast options including low hanging fruit to exercise securing their best option on a consistent basis.

And the whole better than / worse than element of this is pure crazy pills. What a strange way to think about people.

dinkleber-g · 2021-08-30T19:50:40+00:00

Okay so firstly, very attractive men do NOT sleep with ugly women. It’s also interesting people talk about hypergamy with women where there are several examples I can think of off the top of my head of famous and attractive women dating less so men. Beyoncé and Jay-Z? This might be just observational evidence but that’s the same case for basically all red pill philosophy.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-08-29T18:43:03+00:00

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Hypergamy is the core concept which explains human sexual selection and all TRP secondary concepts flow from this one human observation

Comments

Am I being obtuse in asking for sources for everything? Obviously.

Title	Hypergamy is the core concept which explains human sexual selection and all TRP secondary concepts flow from this one human observation
Author	ThrowAwayBro737
Upvotes	54
Comments	275
Date	August 29, 2021 6:30 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/pe0s9v/hypergamy_is_the_core_concept_which_explains/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/hypergamy-is-the-core-concept-which-explains-human.1066373 https://theredarchive.com/post/1066373