Men and Authenticity

questioningwoman · 2017-03-01T20:30:20+00:00

What men like is for women to spend 3 hours on her looks where she's totally made up but looks natural to them.

DucksCanDance · 2017-03-01T21:21:37+00:00

What I like is a woman who can do it all. Look natural, a whore, a wife, whatever the situation calls for

Battle-Scars · 2017-03-01T20:15:57+00:00

My personal preference is less makeup, natural breasts on the small side, and about 25% hippie to her personality. Think yoga body with a chill personality and a penchant for music. The trick for both men and women when it comes to procedures is to look like you had nothing done.

wtknight · 2017-03-01T20:23:53+00:00

I think the natural look is better. All of the women I've dated hardly ever wore makeup.

Plastic surgery is ridiculous to me, and in the case of breasts are not an improvement in my opinion at all because I prefer them small, although I could see a woman getting small implants if she were completely flat chested.

UhKhat · 2017-03-01T20:42:24+00:00

I'm a woman who has never really worn much in the way of makeup - my mother didn't and I feel that I grew up around women who tended not to. I will groom my eyebrows so they aren't sticking in weird directions and wear lipstick - sometimes I'll wear mascara, but it's not a must (I find it irritates my eyes if on for more than 6 hours).

Personally I don't like the look of women who wear a lot of makeup - like the Kardashians, etc - I find it looks too unnatural. I also have to admit that I find it superficial (and therefore less attractive) when women or men spend a lot of time on their looks (men who have gelled up hair and wax their chests are a bit of a turnoff personally). Anyone who is hyper-aware of fashion and looking on trend sort of bugs me - I just don't prioritise it and am a bit put off by people who do. It seems a silly thing to spend a lot of time and money on.

I feel the same way about fake boobs and other cosmetic procedures on people who were perfectly 'normal' to begin with. In the thread rating the women, I thought the most natural one with the crooked teeth was the most attractive - that was questioned by a few men (and women). Crooked teeth are natural - as long as they're not causing pain, I don't see the need to go through the pain and expense of braces to correct them. But I'm not from the US where that seems to be expected...

I'm interested to see if men attribute different values to the 'type' of beauty a women possesses. My guess is that the highly made up and more fake ones are seen in a more lustful way, whereas the more natural ones are seen as having more potential for long term relationships. I certainly view male attractiveness that way - a man who spends a lot of time on his appearance is not attractive in the long term because I'd prefer to spend my time with someone who puts his energy towards more important things...

Effervesser · 2017-03-01T21:49:53+00:00

I think this has less to do with the sentiment that women are faking hotness and more to do with the uncanny valley. if features because too exaggerated men start to feel "off" because it seems less human and more cartoon. Funnily enough full on cartoons become appealing enough to jack off to once they're past the valley because fantasies are appealing.

cxj · 2017-03-01T21:52:56+00:00

Speaking for myself, I know I have found made up girls attractive, but almost every time I see one without it I think she looks better. My current gf hates how she looks in the morning but it's my favorite look on her. It's one of the reasons I try to have sex with her first thing in the morning lol.

My longest ltr was with a girl who wore literally no makeup except to special events and job interviews. There are girls out there who look great without makeup, at least to me, but also lots of 6/10s who paint their way to 8/10.

The main problem I have with makeup is when it looks blatantly unnatural, and like touching her face and kissing her will make a big mess. It's a huge turnoff even if it looks good. I want her to seem physically accessible if that makes any sense.

Another thing is my obsession with girls having a "young" look. Some girls natural look is very young and hot to me, but their made up look is more "adult/professional." And that's less attractive to me but I think makes some of them feel powerful somehow. Otoh, some girls made up look is younger, while their natural look is weathered/haggard. I wouldn't ltr a girl like this tbh.

Randommorningkiller · 2017-03-02T01:42:50+00:00

Anything fake on a person drops their value by generally 1 point. This includes makeup, boobs, lips, nose, ass, personality/interests, attraction, etc.

For examples

This is a 7 that drops to a 5 due to makeup and personality.

This is a 7 that drops to a 6 for makeup.

This is a 6

Of course, it's a general rule. Excessive makeup will drop much more than 1 point, excessive chameleon behaviour will drop extreme points.

Ercole-- · 2017-03-01T21:04:43+00:00

Do men value the aesthetics of a woman the same regardless of what she did to achieve them? Are makeup and surgery forms of deception or are they a flattering way to put an effort into one's appearance? Do men care if the face they see in the morning is drastically different than the one she wore the night before? Do they care more about her natural look for women they'd consider committing to (marrying and/or having children with)? Are they different kinds of attraction - as in, does the bimbo look inspire more sexual lust while the naturally cute look inspires more protective love? Would that mean alpha men are more attracted to fake looking women (since they're less inclined to want to love and commit) while beta men are drawn more to the simple girls?

One of the things I love about my wife is that she doesn't need make-up. That said, I like it when she wears it on special occasions because it does make her look better and I'd love it if she bolted on some new titties. Natural looks are important and cannot be substituted with make-up, style, and surgery, unfortunately. However, that doesn't negate the advantage of make-up, style, and surgery. It looks fake when it's an attempted cover-up, rather than an accent to work with what she has. So, basically we want girls who don't need to put in an effort, and also do put in an effort. Shit's unfair like that. That's why I don't cry about being a man, women have their problems too.

hyperrreal · 2017-03-01T20:31:36+00:00

I'd like to make a point about the comments from women that amount to the following:

Men are dumb and don't understand the impact that makeup, styling, plastic surgery, etc. have.

If serious, these comments are wishful thinking from #teamwoman. Trust me, we know the difference cosmetics, etc. can make. It's just easier and more enjoyable for everyone to live as if we were ignorant.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-03-01T21:17:22+00:00

My experience tells me that there is no one answer. So what you said is correct:

I think men have highly differing individual views and preferences on this matter.

Some guys like you to look super natural and some guys want that lip glass on top of the lipstick and a heavy cat eye liner. Same as some of them want you to walk out of the pages of the Tory Burch look book and others want you to shop at Urban Outfitters.

I feel like their preferences for the appearance of women are so wrapped up in their own ideas about themselves and who they want to be, along with their personal backgrounds and life experiences. For some of them the woman is just a trophy or award or accessory or something like that so she has to look a certain way to fulfill that role. Or maybe it's that she is even a mirror or amplifier of that.

I like to be well groomed and I like to get my hair and nails done and I like to use makeup, but not a lot. I do it though because I like it and I want to look the best I can in a way I am comfortable with.

I have to admit though that I don't completely resist the attempts of men (I've been in relationships with ) to pressure me to change one thing or another. Like don't wear heels for one guy, wear lower necklines for another that kind of thing. I wonder should I resist that more? There is pressure for sure.

This whole topic makes me think of that song "I want you Bad" by the Offspring. You know what I mean? That's kind of been the story of my life. lolol

SirNemesis · 2017-03-01T22:30:24+00:00

Some thoughts. First, the best makeup is that which I don't notice without looking for it. So yes, natural-looking makeup is fine. Exaggerated makeup that is too glaring to me is not.

And yeah, I'd care much more about whether it's natural or fake when it comes to marriage, for three reasons - first, plastic surgery ages badly sometimes; second, it would mean worse-looking children (at least daughters) who might need plastic surgery as well; finally, to the extent that good looks are an indicator of good health and fertility, plastic surgery doesn't really solve the underlying problem of poor health and fertility.

yurtyybomb · 2017-03-02T05:48:05+00:00

I really don't judge the girl I'm with when she doesn't wear makeup, unless she's unhygienic or just slovenly goes about public life in a way that even I wouldn't. For example when I wake up, I at least throw a relatively fresh T shirt and jeans/shorts on, brush my teeth, wash my face, and go even if I need to do something very simple.

That's it. She does not need to look like a stunner 24/7, just take care of her hygiene and dress up when we both should.

SetConsumes · 2017-03-01T20:13:54+00:00

Do men value the aesthetics of a woman the same regardless of what she did to achieve them?

Definitely not. Natural is preferred, less make up is better, but not no make up usually. Some make up where it's amplifying her beauty but not looking super fake is ideal.

Are makeup and surgery forms of deception or are they a flattering way to put an effort into one's appearance?

They are deception, but there's nothing wrong with that anymore than wearing sexier clothing or lingerie is deception.

Men want to be reasonably deceived.

Surgery should be minimal if any at all, perfect isn't needed, but if someone has a serious flaw surgery can be worth it(like fixing a witch nose).

Do men care if the face they see in the morning is drastically different than the one she wore the night before?

Care some? Yes. I've definitely lost some respect for a woman after seeing her without makeup for the first time.

Men respect women's beauty? Hmm

Do they care more about her natural look for women they'd consider committing to (marrying and/or having children with)?

Probably care more yeah as you'll be experiencing that more often and it's a better indicator of how healthy she is to make a baby.

Are they different kinds of attraction - as in, does the bimbo look inspire more sexual lust while the naturally cute look inspires more protective love?

Yes, you want to treat and innocent girl and a slut differently. Calling it protective is pretty accurate.

Would that mean alpha men are more attracted to fake looking women (since they're less inclined to want to love and commit) while beta men are drawn more to the simple girls?

Alphas know the sluts will give them the no strings sex they want more readily, but I think they entice all men pretty similarly. They exude their sexuality more.

Betas would take the sluts when they're young and hottest if the sluts would have them, often enough.

Sluts, an endless source of temptation.

DangZagnut · 2017-03-01T21:14:50+00:00

Personally, I don't care how much someone changes themselves, surgically, using makeup, hair styles, whatever. The fact of why they're doing it is more interesting to me.

"Natural" beauty is great, but 1) it doesn't last forever, and 2) it's incredibly rare. I couldn't care less if breasts are real or enhanced through other means.

Most everyone has some sort of flaws, real or otherwise, and that's just their outside. There's much more flaws on the inside to worry about.

If someone attempts to beautify their outside, the reasons matter. Are they doing it because they're inherently vain and narcissistically want attention from the DJ? Are they doing it for me specifically in a relationship because I like some particular makeup style? Those are completely different reasons for engaging in "fake" behavior.

If I have a lot of money, and I throw it around in a club, then I might be an asshole, or trying to get attention, or faking wealth, whereas if I throw around money taking my S.O. on an around the world tour, then I'm doing it for her as an experience.

The same thing with fake boobs, clothing, makeup, or anything else. The motivations are what's more important as to whether they are "fake" presentations.

Go to the gym? Are you doing it to feel better and be helthier or just to get washboard abs for attention at the beach?

From another perspective, are you hiding your flaws, or are you attempting to overcome them? Someone trying to overcome outward "flaws", like asymmetrical breasts, with implants, is no different than someone going to therapy to try and work on being happier, or going to AA meetings to stay off alcohol, or taking metformin for blood sugar issues.

In every case someone's trying to fix a flaw of some kind, biological, psychological, emotional, physical. Applying moral judgements to what kind of change someone makes to themselves for their own reasons is kind of silly and elitist.

Motivations are more important to deciding to have a relationship with someone.

Personally waking up next to someone different than I went to bed with can be fun, there's two for the price of one. So it's like a serialized threesome.

ManSentHisOwnWay · 2017-03-01T20:13:50+00:00

I think there's this still broadly accepted cultural narrative that women who put too much effort into their looks, are too obvious in their efforts or take "extreme" measures (surgery) to improve their looks are somehow lesser than women who don't do those things. So I think most men care very little about make-up and surgery but are taught to think that when either of those things are obvious the woman in question is low class.

I think lust is just lust and I don't think attraction is based on "alpha-" or "betaness", just on personal preferences. I do think that some types of men might prefer some types of women because they think they've got more chance with them. So an insecure socially isolated guy might feel totally out of his league with a popular sorority girl but feel like he's got a shot with an equally insecure and isolated shut-in. And these rolls might be reflected in how someone dresses or applies make-up.

alreadyredschool · 2017-03-01T21:00:54+00:00

Men say this to comfort women but don't actually mean it.

locriology · 2017-03-01T21:04:37+00:00

I like a girl who looks good, and I don't care what steps she took to accomplish that. A girl who takes steps to improve her appearance is much more attractive than a girl who either doesn't care enough to do so, or worse, demands that guys love her for her flaws.

neostoic · 2017-03-01T21:11:12+00:00

I don't think makeup matters that much. Girl that looks good in makeup is going to look good in the morning without it too.

As for fakeness, to me it's a complete turn off. I'd take a natural looking HB6 every single time. With this said - recently one of my friends mentioned a few of his favorite pornstars and of course I decided to do some "research". Didn't like any of them because they were all bimbo-looking. So, there are different tastes. Neither me, nor my friend would qualify as a Chad.

LewisCross · 2017-03-01T22:17:50+00:00

From recent discussions it seems that women are more attuned to what is "fake" about looks on a woman than men are. Either that, or those men simply don't care what's "authentic" or not.

It's a real mixed bag. I think there are men who do know what's fake and what's real. I think there are some men who don't care what's fake and what's real; and then there are some who care very much about that.

I think men have highly differing individual views and preferences on this matter.

Yes, and highly differing understandings about what is fake and what is real, and what can be expected.

Do men value the aesthetics of a woman the same regardless of what she did to achieve them?

I personally don't. I don't care how she achieved them; I care only that she does achieve them. If she is sufficiently sexually attractive; it doesn't matter how she got that way. There are going to be some guys for whom it does matter, a lot.

Are makeup and surgery forms of deception or are they a flattering way to put an effort into one's appearance?

Of course they're deception. But they're also enhancements to what's already there. Much like male dress and lifting weights are for men. There's a certain amount of deception and 'putting your best foot forward' in this dance.

Do men care if the face they see in the morning is drastically different than the one she wore the night before?

Not really, because had sex. There's also a wife goggles effect. But if it's with a woman for whom there is a real stark difference, it can matter.

Do they care more about her natural look for women they'd consider committing to (marrying and/or having children with)?

Yeah, I'd want to know what she looks like without any makeup if I'm being called on for investment and commitment. I've long said that once we're at that stage, I'm entitled to know pretty much whatever I want.

Are they different kinds of attraction - as in, does the bimbo look inspire more sexual lust while the naturally cute look inspires more protective love?

No, they're both sexual attraction. I think you're describing a difference of degree and intensity, not kind. You really want to fuck the shit out of the pornstar; but you want to "make love to" the girl next door.

Eventually we do want to fuck the shit out of the girl next door too. And, we Red Pillers have discovered, the girl next door wants a man she's attracted to to fuck the shit out of her.

Would that mean alpha men are more attracted to fake looking women (since they're less inclined to want to love and commit) while beta men are drawn more to the simple girls?

Not really. Alpha men and beta men want them all. For beta men it's not a matter of whether you're attracted; it's a matter of what you can reasonably get. Alphas get everything and get to select. Beta men take what they can get - the leftovers and the alpha castoffs.

darksoldierk · 2017-03-02T01:16:54+00:00

I can't speak for all men, but here are my thoughts.

Do men value the aesthetics of a woman the same regardless of what she did to achieve them?

No. A woman who earns her looks by working out and eating healthy is valued a lot more than a woman who throws money at her problem. Money, of course, being the easy way out.

Are makeup and surgery forms of deception or are they a flattering way to put an effort into one's appearance?

This one is not so black and white. First of all, don't use makeup and surgery in the same sentence. Aesthetic surgery is not even comparable to using make up. Surgery is just going too far, putting in too much. Make up has a limit. I think make up has a diminishing return in that, the more you use of it, the lower your increase in appeal becomes. If women get into the "she's trying too hard" zone, then it's not flattering and it's not attractive.

Do men care if the face they see in the morning is drastically different than the one she wore the night before?

I do. I mean, seriously, most women just look extremely tired without make up. I don't know why they look tired. Most don't become ugly without make, though some do, but they all just look tired. That's the point of make up, it's supposed to enhance your features, not create features you don't have.

Are they different kinds of attraction - as in, does the bimbo look inspire more sexual lust while the naturally cute look inspires more protective love?

Honestly, I've never thought about actually loving a woman who regulars puts on a lot of make up. I don't know what it is, maybe it screams insecurity? or high maintenance?

Would that mean alpha men are more attracted to fake looking women (since they're less inclined to want to love and commit) while beta men are drawn more to the simple girls?

No, I don't think so.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-03-02T06:41:04+00:00

Hypothetically natural will always be preferred.

But after seeing so many girls and how they look depending on how much time they put into their appearance/dress, girls who can't even dress up or do their hair/makeup come off like slobs, or as if they have low self esteem, or like they are some socially retarded home schooled kid. It's not that bad but it's kind of sad.

despisedlove2 · 2017-03-03T01:02:24+00:00

I think that a woman should have a basic level of natural attractiveness for me to consider her. Beyond that, it is all about how sharp her mind is.

hygienichoe · 2017-03-03T16:18:30+00:00

I think it might have to do with culture and society. Where I live there are tons of women with moustaches, baby facial hair, arm and leg hair(although those are just covered, you can catch glimpses though) along with makeup free faces and nobody cares.

I have never worn makeup, along with a bunch of other girls in my class. Nobody has told me I look tired/sad/negative attribute and I've never heard of anything like that.

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says_harsh_things · 2017-03-01T20:51:50+00:00

I dislike heavy makeup because i view the person as high maintenance. Im not interested in a relationship with restrictions on what can be done if her makeup isnt perfect.

Other than that, a normal amount is fine. I have no problems with fake tits or teeth whitening or tanning or anything like that, to a point.

Too much of the above combined causes me concern that she is willing to use her body as currency.

MosDaf · 2017-03-02T01:28:01+00:00

I've heard a lot of women express genuine aversion to guys who expend too much effort on their looks. Of course, I'm not attracted to women who would tend to like male model / clothes horse types (and they're undoubtedly not attracted to me, either)...but man, I really have heard sincere yuck responses directed at guys who expend a lot of effort on their looks.

...so anyway, my point is just that that point--if true--seems revealing...but I'm not sure of what.

Dildobagginsaa · 2017-03-02T08:49:02+00:00

Some people are ugly, and some people arent.

Women at least have the opportunity to aethstetically and surgically modify their appearance where men are really only afforded the opportunity of haircut, facial hair, and physique. An ugly man will always be ugly, but an ugly woman can create temporary beauty through effort.

Being naturally beautiful is just as rare in men as it is in women, so people will always be impressed to a woman who is attractive without surgery or makeup.

Now i'm a dude, and I talk to plenty of my dude friends about sex, most dont really care about fake boobs. Some of us care about an overly fake appearance like bronzer and botox lips, but most of us dont mind that as well. I have never ever heard a straight man mention nails, split ends, or whatever absurd beauty standard women feel like they should meet. The only guys I know that care about these petty aesthetic things are the guys that have an absurd amount of abundance through killer game or exceptional good looks, or the men who are so undesirable they are trying to create the illusion of abundance by shaming women for minor imperfections. I could care less if the women i'm dating dont put makeup on when they are alone with me, but if we are going out in public I expect some effort from them to look good because I will be doing the same.

I think the biggest turn off for men is obesity. A man will be far less attracted to a big pretty woman than he will to an ugly woman with an attractive body.

GroovyEFS · 2017-03-02T11:18:28+00:00

If makeup is done well it looks natural and most guys won't know it's there. As you've pointed out in your OP, women know this already.

When guys complain about makeup what they're really saying is they don't like badly overdone makeup. No one does. Makes you look like Health Ledger's Joker. Which isn't sexy.

Same goes for fakes tits etc. If it's obvious they're fake... well tbh plenty of guys have a fetish for "bolt-ons" come to think of it. But I think most guys certainly prefer what looks real.

In fact the exception to all the above is the entire bimbo fetish which is a big thing online at least.

To answer your other questions:

Do men value the aesthetics of a woman the same regardless of what she did to achieve them?

Yes.

Are makeup and surgery forms of deception or are they a flattering way to put an effort into one's appearance?

I don't consider them deception, I think most guys go find makeup attractive even if they don't realise it. Like I say, the issue is that when they do notice makeup it's because it's badly overdone. That's why you hear guys hating on it.

Do men care if the face they see in the morning is drastically different than the one she wore the night before?

Everyone looks like shit in the morning.

does the bimbo look inspire more sexual lust while the naturally cute look inspires more protective love?

Yes definitely.

Would that mean alpha men are more attracted to fake looking women (since they're less inclined to want to love and commit) while beta men are drawn more to the simple girls?

I think this is a bit of a stretch. I'd say it depends on if you're looking for an LTR or not rather than alpha/beta.

BPremium · 2017-03-02T13:06:08+00:00

Being honest. Dont really care if its "real" or not. If it looks good to me, thats all that matters

Me2_0 · 2017-03-02T19:47:29+00:00

Makeup isnt supposed to look fake its just supposed to cover up minor flaws. If a person can tell you have makeup on from more than 20 feet away, you did it wrong. Unless you are part of some high fashion runway show.

YourGayOpinion · 2017-03-02T23:06:38+00:00

you often hear people comment on women looking fake

Internet neckbeard people.

YourGayOpinion · 2017-03-02T23:07:30+00:00

"I don't like women with fake tits! But I do like men with fake vaginas!" - reddit

[deleted] · 2017-03-03T02:32:40+00:00

From being around almost exclusively men for the majority of my 20s, I am convinced that men as a whole think very little of most women they meet, and that they view "makeup" as just another vanity ritual by the weak, neurotic adversary that is the female sex.

I've never particularly cared. I can't really help what the reptilian part of my brain finds attractive, but the conscious part of my brain is completely turned off by the expectation women seem to have that men ought to be grateful for the attention given by their female masters to how hot they can look under the bar lights.

I would tend to agree, though, that beta men value wholesomeness and substance over fleeting attraction, since their priorities are skewed. Alpha men just don't have enough reason to give a shit.

Typhoon_Ashbite · 2017-03-03T19:37:41+00:00

Women expect men to spend tens of thousands hours studying game where all our moves are calculated but look natural to them.

Similarly, men expect women to spend thousands of hours applying makeup by it should look natural to them.

Fair's fair - Both expect something out of the other.

DupreeMcJones · 2017-03-02T00:46:20+00:00

Makeup is an art. Some of you do it shit.

Personally, I dislike girls who are shit at their makeup and therefore look fake, or always wear their make up every day and it's always the same - because it just telegraphs vanity and lack of confidence in one's looks.

statsfodder · 2017-03-01T21:41:32+00:00

DAE think men are shallow... this is a CMV post with the obligatory "alpha shaming" thrown in as well - we all know alphas like fake women not 'real' women cause they couldn't handle a 'real' woman.. amirite!!

Newsflash: different men like different things just like different women like different things.

Title	Men and Authenticity
Author	DrunkGirl69
Upvotes	14
Comments	168
Date	March 1, 2017 8:04 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5wycju/men_and_authenticity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-and-authenticity.269757 https://theredarchive.com/post/269757

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