The Hidden New Dating Norm: Equality

Acceptable-Truck3803 · 2025-07-19T15:06:35+00:00

“The traditional model, where men approach, initiate, entertain, and continuously moves things forward, it's eroding fast. In its place is a dynamic that resembles ping-pong: serve and return. One person begins, the other reciprocates. If no one hits the ball back while taking one step forward, the interaction fizzles out.”

This is how it’s always been outside of Hollywood and Disney movies. Perhaps you are finally seeing this with your own eyes.

jazzmaster1992 · 2025-07-19T15:19:48+00:00

To me it seems like the amount and frequency with which people "approach" each other is vastly over-stated. There are so many other ways people meet - at church, work, school, co-ed activities, through mutual friends or family. Even dating apps almost don't count as "approach" because most of them require you to match each other first, not just go and initiate a blind interaction with a stranger. I have to wonder if women are being led to believe that they should just sit and wait for guys to "approach" them, and if men are putting pressure on themselves to approach, when this isn't exactly how it's always been even before the OLD boom. With the younger generation especially, I'd say stuff like loss of co-ed environments and COVID disrupting normal social timelines and milestones could have more to do with younger people dating less and having less sex. Combine it with all this added screen time and brainrot-inducing dating discourse/gender war bullshit that also took off during the onset of the pandemic, where all this content is feeding them false narratives about how dating works when they didn't even get to experience much of it themselves, and yeah you have a recipe for a "loneliness crisis" among people, especially Gen Z.

kongeriket · 2025-07-20T01:44:24+00:00

I still love the nightlife - particularly in Europe and South-East Asia. Except I now enjoy it with my missus (most of the time, anyway). I also dated in your country many years ago. If you're under 25, you were in kindergarten or not born yet when I first dabbled in the Swedish dating scene. This isn't to brag, but to note that I have seen how things (haven't) changed.

So, the main thing that did change was an increase in shyness starting from 2005 or so. Which is not surprising in the society that took people like Margareta Winberg and ROKS (Riksorganisationen för kvinnojourer och tjejjourer i Sverige). Look up Könskriget to get an idea of the atmosphere in sexual politics in Sweden between 2003 and 2009 or so. Misandry became not just normalized, but mandatory in upper-class institutional settings.

This has started to change (for the better) in the last 8 years or so - but 15+ years of that hateful setting aren't going to get cured so easily. Guys in their late teens and early 20s now in Sweden don't even know they're living with/in the aftermath of a well-funded propaganda war against men, which did convince quite a few men in power and dare I say most Swedish women (although not most nysvenskarna, if you catch my drift).

So the particular situation you're observing in Sweden today is in part common with the rest of Europe (though not really with US big cities) but also in part highly specific to Sweden itself whose young(er) population was brought up in part with really wrong and dangerous ideas about sex, sexuality and sexual politics.

Also, I concur with the general point of other commenters: A kind of ping pong has always been the norm.

If men were truly quitting, you’d notice a lot fewer men out in these public spaces entirely. You don’t. Bars, festivals, and parties still have plenty of men—they’re just not dancing monkeys for uninterested strangers anymore.

You're not wrong entirely. However, I will believe fundamental changes occurred when "ladies' nights" are no longer a thing. For now Stockholm is choke full of such events and somehow stay in business, so there's clearly demand from "dancing monkeys for uninterested strangers" - although I will grant that the on-the-ground whining from single women has increased quite a bit compared to 2005.

EvalCrux · 2025-07-20T04:04:06+00:00

I absolutely notice a ghost town of men when I go out (usually with girls lol, am dude), far different than the inverse only 5-10 years ago. There is like a 3:1 girl guy ratio lol.

Ok_Use7 · 2025-07-19T15:25:09+00:00

This is how it’s always been. People on this sub come up with theories only to explain what’s already the norm lol.

Even in the “old world”, you’d approach briefly, expect engagement in return, get nothing, move on. None of this is new, I’m sorry.

In successful cases, it’s never been approach, initiate, entertain, and continuously move things forward. There’s always been ping pong serve and return when she’s interested.

Xeltar · 2025-07-19T15:25:54+00:00

Reciprocation is pretty much always the norm. Women may want to be approaches first, but if she's ignoring you, that's a lack of interest. If she's not putting in effort and you're doing everything, you're just being taken advantage of.

In no world are women are just doing nothing like people imagine.

ChadChasingBReturns · 2025-07-19T17:20:11+00:00

I think what has really changed is that young men are giving up on the stupid ideas of “I can change her mind. I can grow on her. I can wear her down.”

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2025-07-19T15:05:43+00:00

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Epthewoodlandcritter · 2025-07-19T16:31:57+00:00

I've been approached by a man in a respectful manner exactly once in my life. And I think a lot of men took "Approach respectfully or don't approach at all" to heart.

UnpredictableDemise8 · 2025-07-19T16:34:44+00:00

It's only natural to expect your efforts to be reciprocated. Otherwise, you can't be sure whether the other person is truly interested. Spending weeks or months on dates, getting to know each other, etc., is a waste of time if it all ends up going nowhere.

leosandlattes · 2025-07-19T15:06:43+00:00

Uhhh, the “reciprocity” was already the norm.

Do you all think men just stand there and talk at a woman for minutes on end? And she is just there blank faced, staring at him?

Typically what happens is that men approach at parties/bars/whatever when women open herself up to him. Exchanging eye contact, smiling, etc. He walks over and to chat, and if she seems receptive and flirts back, then he keeps going. If not, he leaves. Another way was that men would buy you a drink or round of shots for you and your friends, and if you didn’t talk to him after, he didn’t do anything after it.

This is how it has been at every party or bar I’ve ever been to. This has always been the norm. I do not understand where you guys are getting this idea that men are just standing/sitting there entertaining while getting no signals back. That is some like bizarre inhuman thought.

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2025-07-19T15:07:44+00:00

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TermAggravating8043 · 2025-07-19T15:12:11+00:00

You shun dating apps but then use tictok as your evidence? Come on, you can’t have it both ways.

Lemon_gecko · 2025-07-19T15:09:18+00:00

The tiltok is not the reality. Creators create content that will be popular and seems to me like attractive girls complaining about how men now "know their worth" would be really popular because a lot of people want to get at them.

I remember that approach was popular for a while there not really many people who would pursue when they get no signs of reciprocation. Unless someone taught them that 1. women lie and just playing hard to get (which was the truth about some women some years ago) 2. they feel like it doesn't matter and they can push and convince a woman to give what he wants. Most men who want to be liked knew to look for signs of reciprocation.

serventofgaben · 2025-07-21T12:31:20+00:00

When women complain about men not approaching them, they're not actually talking about men in general. Rather, they're only referring specifically to tall, chiselled, bearded, aggressive, dominant, extroverted, high-testosterone, high-status men with deep voices. In other words, Chads.

When a man who doesn't fit that narrow, specific mold approaches one of these very same woman, they complain about "creeps" and about how they don't feel safe going out. They also gossip about that man to everybody and ruin his reputation, get the bouncer to kick him out, get him fired from his job, etc.

Physical_Sherbet199 · 2025-07-19T15:07:57+00:00

More than anything else this sounds like a revenge fantasy against women who don’t want to be approached by strangers in public.

Electric-Vermicelli · 2025-07-19T15:12:22+00:00

I don’t think anything has changed in nightlife or social circles except that the kind of persistence that would’ve been tolerated before can now get a guy into more trouble (going viral on social media, kicked out of venues or worse, charged with some form of harassment.)

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Lift_and_Lurk · 2025-07-19T17:50:57+00:00

Bruh, you litteraly just described how it’s always been. You were always trying to vibe and engage.

At no point was “enthusiastic response to an approach” meant that was it.

Tylikcat · 2025-07-19T18:16:45+00:00

I mean, that's how we did it in the eighties and nineties, too?

linx28 · 2025-07-20T02:12:00+00:00

on the men not approaching us videos didn't women spend the last 10-20 years saying don't approach us and now they are complaining they get what they asked for

ResponsibilityAny217 · 2025-07-20T04:17:48+00:00

The pingpong style of dating is the more normal style of dating it's actually how most social interactions progress romantic or platonic.

Its told that in the 1900's women would drop their handkerchief to give the guy a opening. He would get it and talk to her, she would flirt he would flirt, he would ask her out she would accept.

I do agree that dating/relationship are in in a transitionary stage right now

rothkochapel · 2025-07-20T07:01:19+00:00

enough with the chatgpt spam

2025-07-21T07:33:25+00:00

It has always been this way. No reciprocation means not interested. An interested woman always played the ping pong.

ChadChasingBReturns · 2025-07-19T15:14:05+00:00

This is how it’s always been unless you’re begging or harassing women.

Competitive_Lion_260 · 2025-07-19T16:24:30+00:00

That weird, little place you live, there where time stands still and reality is optional, is INSIDE your head, it's not real.

There is no wave of women who bemoan:

"Men, oh men, where art thou? And why don't thy approach us beautiful delicate maidens?"

I have never heard a woman say that crap you said.

(No one approached me ... boohoo)

Seriously..? 😂😂😂

You are weird

Go outside, touch some grass, meet REAL people because the only thing that seems to be eroding is your brain.

How can you be Swedish and still live in the 50's? 😄

Because, Western and Northern Europe, when it comes to things like this, are ahead of the US at least one generation. The US always was a lot more traditional than us. But even in the US reciprocity is very normal.

Where are these tik tok creators you watch from?

Are you watching videos from muslim countries? Because yes, in those places, there is no reciprocity.

Are you an import Swede who came from a backwards country ? Because an actual Swede, who thinks like this is just so dumb. I think your mother must have dropped you on your head a lot. 😂

And , yes, I know Sweden very well. My step sister lives in Sweden, with a Swede and their Dutch-Swedish family. I am Dutch.

Anyway, dude GET OF OFF TIKTOK. GO OUTSIDE.

REAL PEOPLE.

REALITY.

YOU NEED IT.

Also, are these real women. Not A.I? Because men are really, really bad in detecting A.I. women from real women. And they tend to believe A.I fakery is real.

Proof:

👇🏻

Meet the Spanish AI model earning up to €10,000 a month

The virtual model earns up to €10,000 a month and has recently become the face of Big, a sports supplement company, and as if that weren't enough, she uploads photos of herself in lingerie to Fanvue, a platform similar to OnlyFans.

In a year and a half, she has gained more than 343,000 followers on Instagram and her photos get thousands of views and reactions. She even receives private messages from celebrities who are unaware that she is not an actual person.

Her success has been followed by two more models, including Madrid singer-songwriter Lia Z. who has become the first AI to secure a record deal, according to the agency.

"One day, a well-known Latin American actor who has more than 5 million followers texted to ask her out."

He had no idea Aitana didn't exist," he added

https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/12/27/meet-the-first-spanish-ai-model-earning-up-to-10000-per-month

Influencers are using AI ‘women’ to lead men to OnlyFans and Fanvue — where more AI awaits.

"Comments on one obviously AI-generated woman's account read like people think she's human."

https://www.businessinsider.nl/influencers-are-using-ai-women-to-lead-people-to-onlyfans-and-fanvue-where-more-ai-awaits/

Physical_Sherbet199 · 2025-07-19T17:56:37+00:00

I explained it’s the language. Not just the tone.

Title	The Hidden New Dating Norm: Equality
Author	Vaudeville_Clown
Upvotes	54
Comments	116
Date	July 19, 2025 3:00 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1m3ybhl/the_hidden_new_dating_norm_equality/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-hidden-new-dating-norm-equality.1557570 https://theredarchive.com/post/1557570