What is an "Alpha Widow," and why does it matter?

cock_pussy_up · 2015-01-11T11:54:49+00:00

Young men who get rejected by young women in their teens and 20s should remember that a woman's SMV trajectory is always downward after their early 20s, whereas they have the possibility of improving and banging younger chicks in their middle age.

pogiface · 2015-01-11T08:04:47+00:00

This is so beyond true, this is what happened with my ex wife and where she is now. Thinking she has it all when in fact she is an older lady with kids and good men have better options , younger, thinner, no kids, and so on..

down_with_whomever · 2015-01-11T11:21:32+00:00

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neveragoodtime · 2015-01-11T15:31:09+00:00

For you white knights on the fence, this isn't an issue of men who are intimidated by a strong woman's past sexual exploits. That if she tells you those days are over and she doesn't do those things anymore and he was a jerk anyway and she loves you for you and sex isn't that important anyway, she must be telling you the truth now. You're not being compared to what she had in her past, you're being compared to what she couldn't have. She never had the alpha, she just fucked him, and therefore thinks she could have had him, but obviously she didn't lock him down. It's not that you can't compete with her exes, you can't meet her expectations, and she will always be less happy in your relationship.

Also, I don't think girls don't care about their alpha screwing other girls, it's just they're afraid to give him grief about it, because they want to be the last girl standing. They think he'll eventually pick her over all the others.

LMS_THEORY_ · 2015-01-11T12:35:38+00:00

And this, my friends, this is why hypergamy is ultimately a losing game. Hypergamy is not bad for men, it's bad for women. Women don't have to put in effort to obtain sex like men do, so when women have sex with top tier males, they think it's because I'm an awesome woman! He validates my (high) sexual worth!. In fact, it was only an anomaly. If pussy was a currency, hypergamy would be the inflation that makes it worth less than previously assumed

rztzz · 2015-01-11T06:53:43+00:00

I really agree with this post (except for the unnecessary divorce settlement part at the end) and have been saying it for years. This post is why online dating doesn't work as well as it should. Back when I was on Okcupid a couple years ago I would say this exact sentiment over at r/okcupid on a regular basis --okcupid distorts the average girl's perception of what she can get --of course always downvoted and replied to negatively by some girl.

And this doesn't just apply to women --guys who manage to date a hot girl for 4+ months will absolutely compare all following girlfriends to her. I know I do.

The difference is that it's easy for girls to go on Tinder or be at some college party and hook up with a guy hotter than her. It's so easy that it's dangerous, especially combined with women's natural senses of entitlement. I was watching porn the other day and this absolute stud of a man (muscles, big cock, great looking face, top 1% SMV easily) was fucking this girl reallllly well, and of course the top comment was from a woman saying "every girl deserves to be fucked like this". And all I thought was really??? Every girl deserves this top 1% man? So they can resent their husband for years for not being him? Get outta here.

grendalor · 2015-01-11T11:36:06+00:00

A very good summary.

I would add that hypergamy will always demand someone who is higher SMV and will feel "cheated" with someone who is equal SMV. The issue with alpha widows is that they don't see a guy who is, say, a point higher in SMV as being sufficient, because they have gotten sex from guys who are a few points higher. So one point higher feels "bad" to them, when it should be sufficient for "normal" hypergamy. A woman will never feel good about being with a guy with the exact same SMV, because that isn't hypergamy, but she should be satisfied with a guy who is one point higher -- alpha widowhood messes that up.

RPenetrate · 2015-01-11T11:58:18+00:00

she's less fun and cheerful than she was in her 20's, and generally less attractive.

Their attitude and demeanour count for a lot. I know plenty of girls in their early thirties, and the Alpha Widows wear the stench of desperation and bitterness like a bad perfume. On the other hand, there's a small proportion of single women in their early thirties that still have a youthful attitude; and, as long as they're moderately attractive and take care of themselves, they generally don't stay single for long.

dat_shermstick · 2015-01-11T09:01:52+00:00

However, in HER mind, she's increased in value: She now has a master's degree in women's studies and a 32k a year job working in HR and two cats - this is a woman on top of her game! She now decides it's time to settle down because that biological clock is ticking.

Garfunkel and Oates play the same woman, 2 years apart. Kate plays the 29 year old version of the woman, Riki plays the 31 year old.

hilariously apropos

FerrusMan · 2015-01-11T13:59:50+00:00

This is a good post, and if I could add to it:

"He's not a bad guy, and there's nothing specifically offensive about him, but he isn't in shape, handsome, interesting, smart, or wealthy."

But the sex is kind of boring, and although he's a good husband, he just doesn't do it for her. She feels guilty, but she fantasizes about 95th percentile man taking her, and having his way with her. In fact she thinks about him a lot, she supposes this is what is called "pining away" for him.

The alpha widow goes through life comparing men to their highest ranking male that bedded them. Think of the movie titanic, just one example. I think the danger here is that some women just remember the good things about her 95 man, and end up putting him very high on a pedestal so others cannot compare. In fact, because he probably dumped her, or checked out early because he lived his life in such a manner that was reckless, she hamsters out a way to make him so sky high that she feels better about herself. In reality, the guy was probably your typical alpha jerk, (and I am by no means calling that a bad thing) but boy did he give her tingles.

long-lostfriend · 2015-01-11T17:22:10+00:00

Nice tale, but "alpha widowing" doesn't require that a woman wait until the Wall (or after) to settle for a man with the same SMV. My ex-wife married me when she was 25, and she hadn't had more than a couple of partners. Her first, however, was when she was 14 years old and he had fucked her off and on pretty consistently, even when she was dating another man. I even found an old picture of the guy in her desk several years into our marriage. She was smart enough to realize he would make a poor husband (as he cheated on her and knocked the other girl up in high school), but that didn't stop her wishing that things had been different.

Shortly before we separated (she was pushing 40 at the time), she even wrote a letter to this guy to check and see how he was doing (read: "to get some more of that alpha cock"). Sadly, he was married and wished her well. The whole incident was pretty fucking pathetic.

RedPillSafe · 2015-01-11T13:46:47+00:00

This is why the rigidity of the (ancient and long gone) Patriarchy was an advantage.

A woman had ONE SHOT at hypergamy in Marriage 1.0 and no matter who they picked it was going to be her only choice.

Hypergamy and Hamstering... quite a disaster.

through_a_ways · 2015-01-11T16:57:47+00:00

He's not a bad guy, and there's nothing specifically offensive about him, but he isn't in shape, handsome, interesting, smart, or wealthy. Never mind the fact that she herself is not in shape, handsome interesting, smart, or wealthy either - but that doesn't stop her from secretly resented his mediocrity.

It is much better to live as a bum and graduate to the lower middle class, than it is to live as a king and be demoted to the lower middle class.

This is probably part of the reason why women with more sex partners have more depression and decreased life satisfaction. And also why women initiate 80% of divorces. Hard to be satisfied being married to a 5 when you were being fucked by 9s

DoxasticPoo · 2015-01-11T22:51:10+00:00

This happens because women confuse the gatekeepers rule. They think men and women are equal and by giving away sex (their resource), men will give away commitment.

They think that because they're getting sex from a 9 dude, they can also get commitment from one. They don't realize that getting sex from a 9 is very different from getting commitment.

let_terror_reign · 2015-01-11T10:36:35+00:00

This is well expounded, but in reality this applies to everyone and everything. We always make comparisons with the best we've ever had. That burger. That game of football. Etc.

surfjihad · 2015-01-11T11:02:07+00:00

Thank you for this explanation. Now "Alpha Widow" makes sense to me. To ask the obvious, aren't most modern women in this situation?

TryMeDarling · 2015-01-11T12:32:13+00:00

Alpha widows don't have to think they're at the top of their game to be alpha widows. I know an alpha widow with an atrocious self-esteem issue, which combined with her rampant sense of self-entitlement creates disastrous bpd problems for herself and her family. It's like she cannot tell the difference between reality and fiction.

monsieurhire2 · 2015-01-11T17:56:56+00:00

SPOILER ALERT FOR MADAME BOVARY

This phenomenon is somewhat similar to the plot of Madame Bovary, where Bovary's destruction is set in motion by attending a party held by aristocrats, and then finding her life married to a doctor to be horrificly mundane in contrast. She even gets seduced by a player pretending to be an aristocrat later in the story. Ultimately, she commits suicide.

GentleGiant350 · 2015-01-11T07:08:57+00:00

This is just a continuation of the misunderstanding that many people of both genders have regarding sexual interrelationships.

Women generally try to sleep "up" from their own SMV. It's in their hard wired nature.

Men, on the other hand, will sleep with whomever, within reason.

It's all part of the biological imperative of both sexes - it's best from a biological success standpoint for men to spread their seed, because their ability to reproduce is essentially limitless, and reproductive consequences are very low. Women, on the other hand, are driven to find the best mate possible and always look to do better, since their consequences from reproduction are high, and ability to reproduce very limited (historically 5 or 6 kids on average. ) So it's in her best interest to find the best mate possible.

Both sexes fail to consider this. The Alpha widow is no exception. She won't sleep with anyone below her own SMV and therefore cannot understand that men WILL. So when a man of higher SMV does sleep with her, it convinces her that her SMV is actually higher than it actually is based on this misunderstanding.

The whole divorce part at the end was unecessary and seemed a little cheap-shotty and hateful, though.

Women aren't the evil you make them out to be. If you really think about it, the alpha widow phenomenon is really sad. These poor women need a red pill of their own.

theultmatecad · 2015-01-11T15:26:51+00:00

Great summary but I wonder if she would actually leave without some branch swinging. Women dont leave relationships to be completely single

iatepussy · 2015-01-12T00:00:18+00:00

10/10 would read again. thanks.

Rollo-Tomassi · 2015-01-12T19:05:55+00:00

Some insight on Alpha Widows:

http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/06/the-slut-paradox/

http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/16/blueprint-for-an-alpha-widow/

http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/04/five-minutes-of-alpha/

http://therationalmale.com/2013/03/13/generation-alpha-widow/

cherrypoptart27 · 2015-01-11T17:27:44+00:00

Till one day he leaves the toilet seat up after he came home exhausted from working a 14 hour day to pay for their children and she decides that she's had enough of his abusiveness,

I know this is off topic but how did this become a thing? Why do I have to put the seat up then put it down? You want me to do two things so you can do no things and just blindly park your ass down. How bout everybody looks out for themselves since we're all equals. Right guys? Right?!

Movonnow · 2015-01-11T19:15:10+00:00

fast forward 10 years. Now she's 32. She's gotten fatter, started to get wrinkles, she's less fun and cheerful than she was in her 20's, and generally less attractive. Let's now say she dropped in value to a man: now let's say she's 40th percentile. However, in HER mind, she's increased in value

Not true. Women perfectly know their smv goes down as they age.

Deaddpooll · 2015-01-11T19:27:29+00:00

That's why I stress on marrying virgins only

Because the top guys that a girl fucked in her prime youth and the amazing sex she had with them will always overpower her husband's love for her.

MustafaIsHere · 2015-01-11T19:33:04+00:00

Now the question is can you cure an alpha widow with another alpha?

ioncloud9 · 2015-01-11T22:34:33+00:00

I knew a girl like this. Banged her for a few months as a plate. Fast forward a few years. She is 32, recently pregnant, going to be a single mom, was impregnated by a one night stand who wants nothing to do with her yet she is keeping the kid. She has 0 SMV now and no hope of ever getting a good guy.

jagrmeister721 · 2015-01-12T00:56:49+00:00

The alpha widow syndrome means that a carouseler simply cannot enjoy relationships with an 80%'er. There was actually a study recently that showed the more the partners a woman had before marriage, the less likely she viewed her marriage as high quality.

According to a study by University of Denver researchers, over half of women who only ever slept with their husband felt highly satisfied in their marriage. In contrast, only 22% of women were highly satisfied with their husband if they had 10+ partners before marriage.

The study was carried out over seven years and evaluated the participants before and after marriage.

Science is increasingly validating the old rule passed down in almost every civilization, no matter its location or nature, told in every way from direct commandments to parable of “No rings for sluts”. In the past, it was conventional wisdom, or tradition, or because some invisible man in the sky said so. Today, it is cold hard facts that promiscuous women make poor relationship material.

A chart of this phenomenon.

Article about study

HAMMURABl · 2015-01-11T06:08:23+00:00

..which is why (in case you want an LTR, which you shouldn`t to begin with) you should generally avoid considering women over 25 - they are literally all alpha widows, and its just going downhill from that age.

deathhand · 2015-01-11T11:18:35+00:00

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elatusa · 2015-01-11T15:32:35+00:00

So let's turn this around; how many future alpha widows have we produced here and how does that affect the sexual market in general?

GentleGiant350 · 2015-01-11T06:17:21+00:00

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billsmashole · 2015-01-11T20:22:12+00:00

I don't know if this is tragedy or comedy, but I laughed.

AnonE_Mouse1 · 2015-01-11T21:33:56+00:00

Oh dog, I read the hole post, Hoping to discover more about this "Alpha Window". I can see that, as men, we have a small timeframe/window to swallow our RP. Hope not anyway

emblasochist · 2015-01-12T03:22:05+00:00

After reading the article, I have to wonder one thing; I know women do hit a wall, hard, at ~30, but do men have one? I ask, because if men start to realize they have a bit of a shelf-life as well, that can help light a fire under their asses and follow this rabbit hole as far as it goes.

asdfghjkltyu · 2015-01-12T02:19:23+00:00

Let's now say she dropped in value to a man: now let's say she's 40th percentile. However, in HER mind, she's increased in value: She now has a master's degree in women's studies and a 32k a year job working in HR and two cats

This is the only thing I don't agree with. Its not that women get unimpressive jobs, its that men don't care about jobs that much. You could change that to any 'respectable' degree and a 60k job and men still don't care.

THE_Aft_io9_Giz · 2015-01-12T04:53:26+00:00

Pretty much Naomi Watts after leaving Skull island

exit_sandman · 2015-01-12T10:54:55+00:00

It's even funnier when looking at swinger communities.

Apparently heartiste did an article on this topic, "fifty years of pining. I read it - it's really good. Link is here:

The best thing is: if you don't describe that phenomenon in terms of "alpha widowism", but use such a wording as "the one that got away", you'll actually get people to agree with you.

occupythekitchen · 2015-01-11T15:37:54+00:00

men are studs and women are sluts because to be a stud you need to have game and take care of yourself, to be a slut you just need to be willing to get fucked

Rhunta · 2015-01-11T08:19:32+00:00

How come that women choose this kind of strategy? I cant believe it is in her biology.

frrunkis · 2015-01-12T01:07:53+00:00

She now has a master's degree in women's studies and a 32k a year job working in HR and two cats

There's so much stuff on this sub that's written to appeal to women-haters. Just the stereotype you instinctively wrote - Masters Degree in Women's Studies, Working in HR, has two cats - so many posts use similar stereotypes. I don't know how to explain what I'm saying since I'm dumb as shit, but I don't know.

Regardless of that, good post.

pandorarosie · 2015-01-11T07:10:49+00:00

It's absolutely touching how much you care about women and their long term health.

psycho-logical · 2015-01-11T13:09:05+00:00

If you yourself are an alpha, your girl being an alpha widow shouldn't matter much at all.

Moxiecodone · 2015-01-11T13:59:38+00:00

You literally devised a story around someone who may or may not exist. That's not even anecdotal, that's purely hypothetical and tailored to an assessment/judgment you already had. Self-confirming.

Title	What is an "Alpha Widow," and why does it matter?
Author	down_with_whomever
Upvotes	438
Comments	212
Date	January 11, 2015 5:43 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2s1coz/what_is_an_alpha_widow_and_why_does_it_matter/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/what-is-an-alpha-widow-and-why-does-it-matter.27835 https://theredarchive.com/post/27835

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