Sexual health scientist asks about female privilege at /TwoX. Called a moron, told to fuck off, post removed, and topic is censored.

sickofthisshizzle · 2014-06-27T16:52:33+00:00

What is a "sexual health scientist" exactly? What's you're field?

Also, did you really expect TwoX to take something you took from a MGTOW video seriously? If you know anything about TwoX and MGTOW that should not have been a surprise.

McFeely_Smackup · 2014-06-27T17:30:12+00:00

the 48 times repetition of "Women have the privilege of" was a bit antagonistic and really doesn't come across as neutral in tone.

beyond that, you went into the radfem echo chamber looking for a rational discussion of an opposing view? That's like a salmon trying to swim upstream a firehose.

dejour · 2014-06-27T19:11:36+00:00

The MRA perspective is that sexism is bidirectional.

That is, there is sexism against men and sexism against women. And we should work against both types of sexism. (In fact, I believe the two sexisms are closely tied so it's actually impossible to eliminate one without the other. For example, if women are seen as lacking in agency, we'll be quicker to help women down on their luck, but reluctant to vote a woman into office. How do we put more women into office without also seeing women as more agentic, and therefore reducing the empathy gap between down on their luck men and women )

For many internet feminists, sexism is unidirectional. Men oppress women. And anyone who disagrees is very likely a misogynist.

Posting the list that you did would put you clearly in the men's rights group. And therefore someone who must be silenced.

As far as the list you included? I can't be bothered to read each and every point, but for all the ones that I did read, I'd say that the privilege is real. For many points it is hyperbolic or insufficiently specific. Also some of them are both a positive and negative for women.

For instance, "Women have the privilege of being given the benefit of the doubt". True in some situations. eg. in the case of mutual domestic violence with two different accounts, the man will be arrested. Untrue in other situations. eg. being assumed to be knowledgeable in a male field (eg. engineering, cars, sports). Women might have to demonstrate just a bit more knowledge before being seen as an expert.

"Women have the privilege of blaming inappropriate behaviour on hormones" is a positive and a negative. It can excuse some bad behavior, but it also gives people a reason to consider you unreliable. Also men are sometimes described as suffering from "testosterone poisoning".

dainty_flower · 2014-06-27T19:38:36+00:00

Why would any scientist post such an inflammatory list that doesn't actually address any real quantifiables?

sickofthisshizzle · 2014-06-27T18:51:25+00:00

The outcome should have been somewhat expected. A MGTOW site isn't the most neutral of sources, and too many of the points are in a gray area or require significant elaboration.

IF your goal is really to start a discussion with them, narrow this down to a short list of the best points and elaborate on each one. You will probably get a (marginally) better response.

BlindPelican · 2014-06-27T16:58:31+00:00

I think there is, at the very least, anecdotal evidence for every one of these. A point by point analysis really isn't necessary.

Honestly, though, the majority of those things are the way a person should be treated and really aren't "privileges". Even the outliers and more outrageous claims can be viewed in this light.

For example:

Women have the privilege of having their partner blamed if they murder their partner

Duress and the circumstances of a relationship should be considered mitigating circumstances and, at least, examined for validity. This should be applicable to all people, men and women alike.

Privilege, at least as used in Social Justice circles, assumes that there is only a comparative standard.

I assert that there is an objective standard - a way in which all people should be treated. Consequently, the idea of "privilege" is one huge derail.

And, I state this not to shut down discussion on your post, but rather to perhaps expand the idea of what the idea of "privilege" really means.

Anyway, welcome to the sub! Looking forward to hearing your contributions.

lamblikeawolf · 2014-06-27T18:05:29+00:00

I found the place, so I'm here! Hello!

Hello, yourself. And welcome. :)

It conformed to the rules in the sidebar, which also proclaims that the community is "welcoming". Certainly not my experience.

My experience is that truly welcoming communities are few and far between. Usually there's an unwritten caveat: "the community is welcoming as long as we agree with you". I'm not saying that's how TwoX works, but I have my suspicions.

I post here the list of claims about female privilege that got my post removed, and I ask you the same question: what's your opinion, and do you think there's empirical evidence to support or dismiss them?

Goody, now for the meat of the thread. :3 First and foremost, we must agree on a definition of "privilege". For the sake of argument, let's say it's the Google result:

privilege (n): a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

I'll focus more on the validity and provability of the statements rather than offer my own opinion. But you're welcome to ask specifically if you want my personal thoughts on an item beyond that. Further, I'll only quote the items that I have comments on.

Women have the privilege of free entry into many nightclubs and bars

This can be empirically proven by finding evidence of men's nights or special entry perks in clubs and comparing to the same for women.

Women have the privilege of not having their motives questioned when they play with children

This cannot be empirically proven. However, one can show a tendency to view men as pedophiles when interacting with children by collecting anecdotal evidence or running well conducted surveys.

Women have the privilege of being 90% less likely to be homeless

Numbers don't lie. Take the number of known homeless men versus the number of known homeless women and you've got a reasonably solid statistic.

Women have the privilege of being given free stuff because someone finds them attractive

I suspect this would be extremely difficult to prove in any meaningful way.

Women have the privilege of being considered the most valuable gender

Any argument that depends on omniscience will be troublesome to put forth. How do you measure how a demographic is "considered" without falling back on speculation?

Women have the privilege of women-only scholarships

Well, by definition this is a true statement. :D

Women have the privilege of an education system tailored to their needs

This is a deep and dark hole. First one must conclusively identify educational needs and show that men and women have different enough needs that a tailored system would hurt one or the other. Then the current education system must be analyzed to show that it truly is tailored to the needs of women at the detriment of the needs of men. Quite difficult, in other words. Interesting to be sure, but difficult.

Women have the privilege of having their feelings considered at all times

This somewhat relies on omniscience too.

Women have the privilege of paying less retirement contributions and claiming more due to longer life expectancy

I'd ask first for evidence that women universally pay less toward retirement, and also that the well doesn't risk running dry without claiming smaller monthly returns, due to longer life expectancy. Both must be true for this to count as a privilege.

Women have the privilege of never being expected to do manual labour

I find this one dubious. Though any statement with an absolute (ie. always or never) should be viewed with suspicion.

Women have the privilege of it being socially acceptable to be deceptive about their level of attractiveness

Presumably this is referring to the use of makeup. I wonder if taking into account socialization that women must be attractive as well as the time and money put into making it happen wouldn't negate the so called privilege. Of course, there's a huge opening in the statement for claiming that men also have opportunities to be deceptive about their level of attractiveness. Personally, I wouldn't use this as an example of privilege.

Women have the privilege of being a stay at home parent as the norm for their gender

I'd rather state this as it being socially acceptable rather than the norm. However, stay at home fathers seem to be gaining traction.

Women have the privilege of having access to contraceptive pills

Men have access to them too, though they're not exactly effective unless taken by a woman. ;) A better statement would be that women have a wider set of contraceptive options than men. But that still doesn't make it a privilege unless there's solid evidence that men's lack of options is intentional rather than simply a matter of solving a tricky problem.

Women have the privilege of being able to opt-out of parenthood after the fact

I'm not thrilled about how this statement isn't as precise as it could be concerning repercussions and limitations of opting out for women, but in spirit I agree.

Women have the privilege of receiving custody of the children if they do not exhibit a major character flaw

A tendency can be proven by exhaustively going through custody cases and comparing the results coupled with the rationale for the results.

Women have the privilege of alimony

Not true. Alimony is not exclusive to women, so it cannot be claimed as a privilege. What can be claimed is that alimony is often unfairly awarded to women, unfairly policed when owed by men, and suggests a social bias toward women.

Women have the privilege of female-specific cancers being taken more seriously than non-specific cancers

This would be relatively easy to prove by comparing the severity of the cancer type, the commonality of it, and funding for it.

Women have the privilege of having biased, pro-woman movements that are taken seriously by the state, media and public at large

That's easy enough to prove (at least in the case of the state and media) by consistently showing pro-man movements dismissed or mocked.

Women have the privilege of having women-only spaces

I wouldn't use this in any serious argument. It's too easy to rip apart.

Women have the privilege of having women-only programmes on TV

Same here.

Women have the privilege of blaming inappropriate behaviour on hormones

I'd rather state it as having inappropriate behavior excused. The reason doesn't need to be hormones. But to prove this would require showing that excused inappropriate behavior is overwhelming in a large sample set.

Women have the privilege of accusing men of having privileges, and for that accusation to go unchallenged

Call it "largely unchallenged" and I'd go for that. It would open up a good discussion.

Women have the privilege of never being labeled "creepy" because they are attracted to a person who does not reciprocate

Too specific. "Creepy" is typically a male gendered slur. "Slut", "whore", and any number of female gendered slurs for the same situation completely defeats this so called privilege. And as such, I wouldn't call it a privilege.

Women have the privilege of being consistently represented in a positive manner on television

I don't watch enough television to speak intelligently about this, but it strikes me as easy to prove by comparing positive portrayals to negative portrayals. Showing it as a privilege that men do not also have would require the same on that side and then cross referencing.

Women have the privilege of quotas

Quotas are not unique to women, so while this may be a privilege, it's not a female privilege.

Women have the privilege of being given preferential treatment in a crisis

First it must be proven that women are indeed given preferential treatment in a crisis, universally.

Women have the privilege of being given sympathy if they murder their children

This can only be called a privilege if lack of sympathy is a provable outlier. I haven't seen that to be true in high profile cases.

Women have the privilege of receiving half the sentence a man would receive for the same crime

Too specific. Saying "half" places an onus on you to prove just that. For example, if it's 49% rather than 50%, you're SOL.

Women have the privilege of being given the benefit of the doubt

This would need to be shown to be unique to women, which I would be shocked to see.

Women have the privilege of equality having a pro-woman bias

Difficult to prove given that equality is a vague term that a large number of groups appropriate for their own purposes. I wouldn't argue this, because it's indefensible in my opinion.

Women have the privilege of believing sexism only applies to women

There's that omniscience thing again.

All in all there are some good talking points, but that list strikes me as trying too hard to make women out to be privileged. Not unsurprisingly, male privilege lists I see do exactly the same thing.

Mitthrawnuruodo1337 · 2014-06-27T23:32:34+00:00

As others have said, I'm not horribly surprised you set off their troll sensors. That was you're first ever post on reddit, your username isn't very professional (as in, not what you'd choose if you created this account explicitly to conduct research on reddit communities), and the material was rather antagonistic to their world view. Your responses to them weren't horribly professional either ("Instead, I meet you - a rude, foul-mouthed, semi-literate fool"). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though, in case you are on the level. It would help if you could provide some academic credentials, but maybe you don't want to for the sake of privacy? Of course, if you are planning to publish your results, you'd have to put your name to it eventually, right? And obviously, you being an academic is not relevant to the research... that is, you're not trying some deception-based in situ psychology experiment to gauge their reactions.

As a fellow scientist (chemical engineering, though) I'd do the following:

Break that list into smaller bits, getting hit with 48 things at once is way too much. Heck, I probably agree with most of them, but I don't want to go through all of that. Categorize them and distill them into more academic terms.
Contact the nice mod again and offer to prove your academic identity to the mods (confidentially if need be), by emailing them from your .edu account or something. Tell them it's for research and prove it; and let them know you're going to approach it better.
When you present your categories, a few at a time, already have at least a couple of sources that are relevant. Show that you're not just some troll who isn't putting effort into finding out the answers.
If the mods still won't allow it, you can try /r/askfeminists (but will likely get a similar result), again, do this categorically and not all at once. If that doesn't work, post it to /r/FeMRADebates. This is, of course, assuming you are looking to solicit feminist responses.
If that still doesn't give you enough responses, I'd repost here in those smaller categories. We're just a bunch of derps online, no one is going to have the time to write a good essay on 48 topics simultaneously. Also, if you prove to us that you are who you say you are, and that this is a chance to get our collected research in actual peer-reviewed literature, I imagine you'll get WAY more help. Many of us will jump at such a chance.

Lagkiller · 2014-06-27T21:23:31+00:00

You asked for responses and most people are just bashing you so I will give an honest opinion. I can agree with most, but I will single out the ones I disagree with.

4 - Attractive people, both male and female will receive free things. This is an anyone kind of thing.

13 - Men have contraceptive items as well, none nearly as handy as the pill, but things we can use. There is also research into a male pill.

16 - Men can also get alimony. It is more common for women as they often are the stay at home parents, but it is not entirely unheard of.

17 - Testicular cancer has a much better success rate and earlier treatment options than on than ovarian or breast cancer.

33 - All people enjoy that right. However, there is a media bias which needs to be addressed, not a judicial one.

Brainfried · 2014-06-27T16:50:32+00:00

[permanently deleted]

beatbox_pantomime · 2014-06-28T00:50:28+00:00

Women have the privilege of women-only scholarships

Lots of races have their own scholarships. As does living in an impoverished area, having a parent belonging to a certain group, or whatever. Basically you're screwed if you're a white male, it's assumed you can afford college.

Women have the privilege of alimony

More cases are coming up where breadwinning wives are paying their husbands alimony if there's no pre-nup. We know because we hear them bitch about it :P

Women have the privilege of quotas

What? Like affirmative action?

Even though I'm female and can agree with most everything on this list, the way it was posed in their subreddit, and without sources, would cause me to believe you were a troll, too. Sorry.

JayBopara · 2014-06-28T04:38:50+00:00

I think they are very good questions to ask. Pretty much all the 48 female privileges you list are true, and there would be much evidence to support it.

I think fundamentally the problem with our modern gender ideology is that we examine all the positives there are in being male, and all the negatives there are in being female, and then present that as the narrative of reality. This is the narrative which is our modern day gospel.

In this context, this explains exactly why it is so hard to stand up for men & boys and indeed even to acknowledge the advantages of being female.

AnnoyingLittleShit · 2014-06-27T21:09:46+00:00

I'm calling troll.

sickofthisshizzle · 2014-06-27T22:50:35+00:00

While you do not claim to be doing proper research, you do ask for empirical evidence, which implies this. No serious researcher - quantitative nor qualitative - would accept your list as anything other than an inflammatory post.

For the record:

As a man - I do not disagree with the list.
As someone who supports Men's Rights (while not fully MRA) - I am annoyed when seemingly official/intelligent people post ham handed things like this because it makes us all look a bit silly
As an academic - this does not pass the smell test. It comes off as a bit trolly.
As a fellow wisesass - I have to admit I got a small bit of guilty pleasure from it

Please do not do this again. If you want real perspectives, you know yow to get them in a much more appropriate way. You can frame it differently up front without kissing ass or being insincere. You can ask an open ended question and ask if THEY can identify any areas in which THEY think women have privileges. You will still get the same response, but you would be much more supported in these parts AND you would more convincingly prove that the other subreddit in question is what it is.

sickofthisshizzle · 2014-06-27T19:42:28+00:00

[permanently deleted]

sickofthisshizzle · 2014-06-27T18:57:40+00:00

Women have the privilege of free entry into many nightclubs and bars

They also seem to believe they have the privilege of going into gay bars and clubs while getting special treatment.

6 Women have the privilege of women-only scholarships

It's not just scholarships: here's a list of programs just for women only

Solesaver · 2014-06-27T19:51:12+00:00

Most of those are totally on point. I do disagree with a few of them.

9 Women have the privilege of paying less retirement contributions and claiming more due to longer life expectancy

Social security is working as intended so I hate when this one is used. If a man makes less money over their lifetime and lives a long time, or if a woman is wildly successful and dies young, they are not discriminated because of their gender. It's just the way it works out. Everyone pays in as they are able, and takes out as they are alive.

14 Women have the privilege of being able to opt-out of parenthood after the fact

This one isn't wrong, it just is more complicated and touchy. The problem being that a women is much less emotionally capable 'opting out' than the man is because of the strain and hormones of pregnancy. I'm not saying that men shouldn't be able to as well, just that the issue needs to be approached more tactfully.

22 Women have the privilege of accusing men of having privileges, and for that accusation to go unchallenged

I find this one just silly. Let's not turn this into an infinite back and forth of who has it worse. Yes, I get the point that women have the privilege of shutting down disagreement by claiming oppression, but I just wouldn't add it to my list of grievances is. It is more a thing that men have to deal with, and less of a thing that women are 'advantaged' by.

27 Women have the privilege of quotas

I'm not sure this is really a thing. I know there is often preferential selection of minorities, but it is generally agreed that quotas is a horrible way to approach the problems it is attempting to solve (in that it doesn't solve most of the real problems at all).

sickofthisshizzle · 2014-06-28T01:11:47+00:00

First off - you have my sympathy. I have been banned from almost every female-centered subreddit, despite being a woman myself, because they seem to require serious censorship to survive. I hate that; it is so weak and I have a hard time respecting that. These are women who would undoubtedly consider themselves to be as strong as men, but they can't even handle a freaking internet discussion about something like abortion unless the discussion is a circlejerk of affirmation. It pisses me off. So I'm not at all surprised that you wouldn't be able to post that...the mods suck in most of those subreddits.

As far as these specific privileges, they are mostly valid - there are a lot of scenarios where the bias falls in the direction of the woman. That being said, I disagreed with these, and I'll tell you why:

Women have the privilege of having their feelings considered at all times

Mmm, nope. It depends on what feelings you are expressing and who you're talking with...a lot of people will dismiss things like offense, hurt, anger, etc. as PMS, or make you feel like you're just being too emotional. A lot of people out there don't respect the feelings of other people, period, whether they're male or female. Such is life.

it being socially acceptable to be deceptive about their level of attractiveness

What does this mean? I do hope this isn't referring to makeup. That's not "deception". It's just makeup. I see it as being on par with things like styling your hair, wearing deodorant or perfume, and brushing your teeth - all of those alter the natural state of your body too and make it "artificial", but I don't know any men who whine about makeup who refuse to do these things to their own bodies.

In my experience - and this is not talking about you specifically, OP, as this is not exactly your list - the sort of man who feels like he's being "deceived" by makeup is the sort of guy who would judge women for going out bare-faced because "she looks like crap", doesn't know that many women who look like they're wearing no makeup are actually wearing a shit ton of it, and feels entitled to date only 10s because he thinks he's hot.

being able to opt-out of parenthood after the fact

Uh, men can, too. A lot of men do this - not every single mother is a single mother because she kicked the man out. A lot of those men bugger off all by themselves.

I don't really consider it a privilege to be a selfish lout who aborts a kid because you don't wanna raise it/ditches your pregnant SO because you don't wanna be a dad. It's reprehensible. Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I think there is a lot more honour in sacrificing for the life of your child, rather than sacrificing his or her welfare or life for the sake of your own convenience.

being consistently represented in a positive manner on television

LOL Uh, nope. That's not really true. There are plenty of jackhole female characters on t.v. and a lot of women are portrayed as weak, or bitchy (Everyone Loves Raymond...his wife was such a cow) (Skylar White comes to mind here too!).

being the secondary breadwinner in a household, if at all, and to still be respected by society

Mmm...meh...well...not all that respected, and not by all of society. I've been a stay-home mother for a decade and it isn't always something that garners respect. That being said, most of the judgment I've ever gotten for being a SAHM has come from - brace your nuggets - other women. That's the worst part for me...why do we do that to one another?? The "Mommy Wars" are a real thing, and they need to end as soon as possible because all we are doing is tearing our own hearts out.

being less likely to be assaulted

Women are more likely to be sexually assaulted than men; men are more likely to be randomly beaten and/or robbed than women. Domestic violence rates in western countries are almost the same; here in Canada men are assaulted at pretty much exactly the same rate as women.

being taken seriously when they are assaulted

Eeeh...tell that to a rape victim. A lot of women who find themselves raped or sexually assaulted have to endure remarks about what they were wearing, whether they were drinking, if they were flirting, if they are the sort of woman who drinks/uses drugs/has casual sex (there are still people who think that if a woman is a "slut" she is not able to be assaulted because she clearly deserved it and invited the behaviour! unbe-freaking-lievable!), etc. This is not a privilege; it isn't something that even the majority of women have working for them.

of believing sexism only applies to women

That's a feminist privilege, not a female privilege. I think the feminist definition of sexism as privilege plus power is b.s. - it gives them a very convenient way to be as sexist against men as they want and then make it disappear with a wave of their hands and the magic words of their definition.

come_on_how · 2014-06-27T20:48:48+00:00

Women have the privilege of free entry into many nightclubs and bars

I'm sorry this is not a privilege, it is pure economics and male stereotyping. If women get in for free the more likely they will attend the venture. The managers see it as a cash cow because men will go where women go, and they have a high probability of paying an entry free if they know many women are in.

In short this is male-stereotyping at its worse, the managers assume that men will pay in order to get some "tail". And you know the kicker is? The concept was designed by men to rip off other men, and maximize profit

Remember economics 101: if you are not paying for it, you are the product!

EDIT: Dude, no wonder you got flack for these questions. These privilege you speak of, shows the reverse of you claim. I mean the women privilege of being attractive? Umm, maybe that is because men are brought up to believe that women who are attractive are some kind of goddess or object that should be lusted over? Of course men give preferential treatment to women that have everything the media tells us is 'attractive'. This is not a privilege for women it's a god damn burden for the majority of women.

Come on men, young men should not be brought up to view women in this way (don't get me wrong, sexual attraction is endowed genetically.) Yet boys should be taught to go after who they find attractive, and not go for those women that are plastered absolutely everywhere.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-06-27T16:32:53+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

WomenAreAlwaysRigh · 2014-06-27T18:57:37+00:00

next time use redditlog.com to save the thread from deletion.

Lurker_IV · 2014-06-27T19:14:36+00:00

I haven't been banned from /r/TwoXChromosomes in the two years I have been subscribed because I don't go there to stir up trouble. If you want debate on gender issues then try

/r/againstmensrights /r/MensRights /r/POLITIC /r/WhereAreTheFeminists /r/FeMRADebates /r/AskFeminists /r/ShitRedditSays /r/AskReddit /r/SRSsucks /r/Feminism /r/SRSDiscussion

and other subreddits like that.

Men deserve their men's spaces and so do women deserve their women's spaces.

it really sucks that /r/TwoXChromosomes was frontpaged.

notimeforname · 2014-06-27T19:16:33+00:00

I wouldn't try to have a discussion with anything closely related to feminism. It's not that I don't want its just not likely to happen, since you have to be a feminist and agree with everything feminism. At the same time even though your post does not break the rules of their sub I'm sure you can see how they can view it as an "attack" against them. Sadly I do not have time to go over them 1 by 1 but from what I read, yes some are pretty much true and there is evidence, some are a little bit silly and maybe hard to prove and also rely on statistics that usually are not very accurate.

And also as always have said the concept of privilege can't be taken to the extreme such as trying to lump an entire gender under it. Just like with men, all of these privileges you listed depend on many other factors. Even though there is good in the concept of privilege its being thrown around too much and there is too much nuance in gender to be able to say that all women or all men are privileged in something.

2014-06-27T20:20:54+00:00

Well it certainly belongs on the front page doesnt it

AnnoyingLittleShit · 2014-06-27T21:34:25+00:00

For me it's not as much about claiming victimhood as debunking feminist hate in the form of lies and biased statistics. Spreading fear that all or essentially all men are rapists and abusers and using their positions of power to keep women down is every bit as bad as spreading fear that all jews are unethical hoarders and bankers using their positions of power to keep others down .

Here are some concrete and supported statistics disproving many feminist claims. They also tend to address the "privilege" claim.

linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky linky

sickofthisshizzle · 2014-06-27T21:43:28+00:00

that the community failed to "sell" itself to me, and that I felt unwelcome. Given my experience and the vast amount I could contribute to any gender discussion, I would have thought I'd be welcomed, instead of being told I need to prove my right to participate.

My experience with feminism in a nutshell.

pauselaugh · 2014-06-27T23:40:46+00:00

start it with "women have the privilege of..."

then each bullet begins "...like this"

i call bullshit on your neutrality. you could have franed each question as conparing the priveleges of men and women and it wouldnt be so obviously biased.

but coming up with 48 obvious advantages women have is disingenous when you could come up with as many, if not more for men.... especially when any research would require contrast.

2014-06-28T03:40:50+00:00

It's odd that people would assume that you are a troll, just because you provided a list like this.

If it were a similar post said to be written by a female PhD candidate listing a bunch of male privileges, I'm going to guess people would have assumed you were a real female PhD candidate and not a troll.

Maybe the women at /TwoX are completely flabbergasted that the academic censors at your schools and Universities didn't see to it that your academic aspirations were thwarted before you ever got as far as you did.

I guess that's just another thing to add to your list:

49 Women have the privilege of studying gender from a female perspective, without being kicked out of school, tarred as stupid, tarred as a liar or tarred as an academic fraud.

Probably one of the biggest privileges of all, in this day in age.

killer3000ad · 2014-06-28T14:45:50+00:00

I am sorry to hear your attempt at engaging with them didn't turn out well. But you've gotten a good crash course into the nature of these people and how closed off they are to open debate or criticism.

Karmamechanic · 2014-06-27T21:13:10+00:00

Accountability is worse than rape for some people.

mcmur · 2014-06-27T20:31:48+00:00

Seriously, is there a better source of anti-feminism then feminists?

Darkling5499 · 2014-06-27T21:22:39+00:00

what's happened to TwoXC in the past year or so? it used to be a pretty good place with actual, reasonable discussion for gender issues. now it seems like it's joined the echo chamber of "silence anyone we don't agree with" subs like feminism and athiesm+

me_pie_three · 2014-06-27T22:55:08+00:00

46 Women have the privilege of never being told to suffer in silence

really? this is not true for either gender.

DavidByron2 · 2014-06-27T19:40:54+00:00

2X is a feminist web site and they all censor very heavily (while claiming not to for the most part, although they do tend to say something along the lines of you must not be a critic of feminism -- which you outted yourself as, by even raising the idea or topic that feminism has legitimate areas of criticism like the one you posted above).

If you want to discuss feminism you can only do so on MRA or anti-feminist boards. Even feminist boards that are flagged as specifically for debate are not. Since you appear interested in the process you might want to try to confirm or deny that claim by posting it to /r/AskFeminists or /r/DebateFeminism

The list seems pretty reasonable if incomplete of course. You can quibble with some items. The homeless number, for example, is dated now. Men used to be 90% but since the great depression more and more people you wouldn't expect to become homeless (ie people more privileged like the middle class or women) are joining the ranks and as a result the gender ratio has shifted. However there's also evidence of men being kicked out of shelters to make sure there's enough services for the women increasingly too, so to some extent the men get kicked down further to make sure the women don't go through the "glass cellar".

Yes there's good evidence for this stuff. Some of the items are a bit more like an overall conclusion ("equality having a pro-woman bias") which would be harder to empirically show without trying to pin it down to being less vague. eg if you said "neutrally worded laws are interpreted to discriminate against men" or "initiatives that claim to be pro-equality routinely discriminate against men" or something you'd have something more specific to work with.

sickofthisshizzle · 2014-06-27T22:38:22+00:00

The feminist-related subreddits are propaganda platforms and troll forums. You won't find discussion there (sorry). They don't want to examine empirical data. They want an echo chamber for a victim complex and an excuse to curse out and deride strangers.

Sadly, this won't likely change any time soon because the same faction of anti-thinkers control all of those subreddits. I recall a point in the past when attempts were made to correct this, and the same group of moderators ended up in control of the new subreddits every single time.

They posted in moderator-related subreddits requesting moderation rights, orchestrated drama between communities, sowed strife between moderators, doxxed people, harassed and stalked people, and generally raised hell until they were handed the keys of every sub they targeted. That's why there are so many. People have tried to facilitate discussion about feminism on Reddit, and it's a lost cause.

In fact, just because I mentioned this, it's probably a safe bet that I'll be taking some crap from somebody in the near future. Just remember: If you have questions about feminism, that means you're a misogynist. /eyeroll

RaptorSixFour · 2014-06-27T22:15:46+00:00

Nice use of Sargon's list. Sargon is an entertainment channel, so a proportion of these are not De facto true. Think of a comedian mocking a double standard that isn't that simple.

I will link the video, the response to a feminist he made and the continuation by DoctorRandomerCam.

ilikewc3 · 2014-06-27T22:24:38+00:00

Personally I think the concept of privilege is kinda stupid in general. there are pros and cons to being every gender and every race imo.

scarletice · 2014-06-27T23:47:06+00:00

I think it may have been have been a mistake to include that story in your post. It seems to have distracted most from discussing your list.

freemale101 · 2014-06-28T12:17:03+00:00

Literate MRAs have rightly and brilliantly taken this poster to task. Its not a work of scholarship, but it is 'rock n' roll'...and I enjoyed it. And thank you sicko.. for posting this.

AtomicBLB · 2014-06-28T15:11:43+00:00

If you changed it a a format of something like

Women have the privilege of:

a

b

c

Instead of saying it everytime it would be much less aggressive and more people would be willing to look it over perhaps. Some pretty accurate observations for some of those, it's so confusing to say you can't mention any of that stuff without being called sexist.

It's like, either acknowledge that women want to have a separate set of rules or that you do have advantages that men don't. It's called living in reality. Don't become ragey and spew out sexism like a broken record. People who do that are the reason we don't have equal rights in the first place. Burying your head in the sand and being a broken record does not solve problems.

ghebert001 · 2014-06-29T17:13:11+00:00

My opinion on female privilege is that there may not be any empirical studies (not that I'm aware of anyway), however, the evidence to support it is readily available in the observable world. The trouble is that people use privilege in general to ensure everyone considers the one who has privilege as an "other" whose opinion has no validity and is to be automatically dismissed even if the their opinion has merit.

FanaticalSlacker · 2014-07-12T01:09:32+00:00

Sorry, I was going to address all of these individually but I though this was the only important one.

Women have the privilege of having their feelings considered at all times Everybody gets their feelings shit on at some time or another. Playing this game of who's more miserable does not fix anything.

I've seen this gender wars thing play out in a circular fashion. As long as we're divided on superficiality we will never be united against the real shit (CISPA,NSA,trillions wasted on war)that's all being pulled on us. We're boiling frogs talking about who has the ugliest warts.

2014-06-27T22:49:10+00:00

2014-06-27T22:29:44+00:00

I haven't looked at them all, but certain ones are kinda dodgy.

48 Women have the privilege of believing sexism only applies to women

Per example isn't a privilege, however the fact that this is widely believed might be.

2014-06-28T00:10:54+00:00

Usually the people that yell "CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE" the loudest are the ones with the most privilege.

rowan771 · 2014-06-28T00:25:14+00:00

"Sexual health scientist" Don't believe you.

NateExMachina · 2014-06-28T16:56:54+00:00

Posted MGTOW links in TwoX on a new account. Never researched what MGTOW was. Username is "sickofthisshizzle". Claims to be a gender expert.

I'm not surprised that your post was removed. I even find it suspicious that you think it was a great injustice.

MassivePenis · 2014-06-28T02:17:54+00:00

You're accurate. Nothing more need be said.

Title	Sexual health scientist asks about female privilege at /TwoX. Called a moron, told to fuck off, post removed, and topic is censored.
Author	sickofthisshizzle
Upvotes	209
Comments	216
Date	June 27, 2014 4:32 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2992my/sexual_health_scientist_asks_about_female/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/sexual-health-scientist-asks-about-female.998662 https://theredarchive.com/post/998662

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