Does Participation on This Sub Require Dating Success?

Atlas__B__Shruggin · 2021-02-04T17:55:58+00:00

i dont think success is required, but at least trying to date and dating EXPERIENCE, even if its of failure and rejection is necessary for me to take you seriously

LittyKitsune · 2021-02-04T17:59:14+00:00

It's difficult to objectively measure success since most users on this sub can't even seem to agree on the basic goals of their pill or if there even are any.

Let's say a guy only gets laid a few times a year but he also isn't on the hook for 18 years of child support with a crazy woman. Where does that fall on the "success" scale?

SaBahRub · 2021-02-04T17:39:04+00:00

This is a red/blue pill discussion sub

That is all

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2021-02-04T17:59:40+00:00

If that was the case 99% of guys here would not be participating.

tnais · 2021-02-04T17:28:05+00:00

The PPD survey suggests that 1 in 4 men in this sub are incels, so no.

That being said, Red Pill/PUA dating coaches are notorious for being grifters. Anyone can become one without any verifiable qualifications; people follow their advice and put their trust into them because of faith, not evidence.

If you want to become a dating coach, you don’t even have to follow your own advice and be attractive! You can look like Quasimodo and men will still take your advice as gospel because they’re giving you the benefit of the doubt, thinking, “Wow! If this guy can get laid, his game must be phenomenal and that means that I can get laid too! Time to binge his material!”

Edit: added link

JohnDoe9564 · 2021-02-04T17:25:38+00:00

Success is subjective. To some of the keyboard alphas here, an N count of 20 is beta.

IRL, that's above average. It all depends who you ask.

Slyfer_Seven · 2021-02-04T17:36:53+00:00

They can't, but that's half the fun of this place. Where else can you find people theorycrafting real life instead of actually participating in it? I wouldn't have it any other way...

You can almost guarantee, when pressed, most of the topics of the "most men/women have x problem" variant or "to succeed you need to do x" have never actually happened to the OP who posted it and are based on a friend or some janky survey study or other indirect means that never give the complete picture.

AbnormalBias · 2021-02-04T20:31:49+00:00

If you're never successful you at least know what doesn't work, but you don't know what it is. A guy may get no dates due to having horrible hygiene but he is convinced it's because of his height. All he knows is he's getting no female attention, but the cause is difficult to discern.

If you're frequently successful, you at least know what does work, and know that your good qualities are enough to overcome whatever your bad ones are. You'd know, more than someone not successful at all, that being a bit ugly or a bit short won't screw you over if you can make up in other areas. However these people are susceptible to tunnel vision and may believe their success is due to one trait when it's actually due to another trait. I.e. some 6' white nerd in S.F. who dates mostly Asian women is convinced he's just naturally more charming than most of the Asian guys his partners would be unwilling to date.

The most reliable source of accurate information would be people who were sexually unsuccessful at one point, then due to deliberate and calculated change became sexually successful. They're the only people who have a guaranteed personal insight to cause and effect and are much less likely to perceive their success as due to the wrong reasons.

However, the worst are those who are mildly to moderately successful. Guys who have only been with 1 or 2 girls or girls who can easily get laid but can't get relationships easily. Their success is more likely attributable to a fluke since it only happened once, but due to the Dunning Krueger effect they will be convinced they have it all figured out and will spout bullshit theories, trying to extrapolate their statistically aberrant experience to dating at large. These people need a reality check and are counter-productive to debate with.

In terms of value to the discussion it goes

Losers who later became successful >Very sexually successful > not sexually successful at all > Very mildly sexually successful

SherbertBacon · 2021-02-04T19:44:31+00:00

So as for this sub, how can someone reach coherent conclusions, generalizations, and whatever other analysis that take place here without dating success?

Obviously someone with no success or experience whatsoever doesn't have a lot of credibility, even if they manage to spit facts. But an even more prescient question is whether experience alone gives you authority on a subject, and to what extent. When I read your example, do you know what I think? I think that guy really is great at picking up women.... neurotic, insecure women. That's what TRP is good for. And many people on TRP have lots of experience in this.

If I wanted a basket case just for sex, I suppose I would turn to TRP. The error RP makes is (a) that the rest of us think their tactics don't work at all and (b) that they believe their tactics work on all women (as if all women are equally neurotic and insecure).

Funnily enough, when a stable woman rejects them, they take responsibility and assume they didn't game the "right" way. I can't think of a better example of something that's "technically correct."

MasterTeacher123 · 2021-02-04T18:27:52+00:00

What if you don’t subscribe to any pill? Like me

Success in dating to me is getting whatever it is you want out of dating.

GridReXX · 2021-02-04T18:28:44+00:00

Does Participation on This Sub Require Dating Success?

This sub is open to all who wish to discuss the topics that arise here.

However "participation in/ valid attempts at interpresonal relations (platonic and romantic)" is necessary for me to think you have an experienced opinion on these matters.

Head-Language-2977 · 2021-02-04T20:02:58+00:00

A wide variety of opinions from people with a wide variety of success in dating is what makes this sub awesome. The perspectives of people with no success are valid because there are a lot of people struggling out there.

The only thing you need dating success for in this sub is to separate the good advice from the bullshit.

alwaysonalongtrip · 2021-02-04T21:38:44+00:00

If a guy did that to me I would pick up my phone and block his number on my way out of the apartment.

Theggooob · 2021-02-04T17:59:45+00:00

You can choose to debate about something you have no experience with... but I think it would hamper the validity of your arguments.

Whose debates on covid do you respect more, debates amongst scientists or laymen? If you don’t know crap about science, then perhaps you should keep your opinions about masks to yourself. And it’s likewise if you have never had a relationship.

cunningcaring · 2021-02-04T18:14:52+00:00

Clearly not.

M4sterDis4ster · 2021-02-04T18:30:03+00:00

The PPD survey suggests that 1 in 4 people in this sub are incels

Can you give link to this survey ?

To me this is shocking, 25% of people here are incels?

What is the proportion of male/female and proportion of blue/red pill ?

2021-02-04T19:05:19+00:00

Success doesn’t equal experience. A heartbreak will bring a lot questions to be answered alongside. Pain is an excellent teacher in that sense. You cannot go further than: "just be yourself bro" and some other blue pill blabber from series of success.

That's why most women do have hard time processing men’s issues, whereas you don't even have to argue and explain these to most men here.

In short, successful people don't feel an urge to discuss dating stuff as much as unsuccessful ones.

superlurkage · 2021-02-04T19:07:28+00:00

Is nobody able to read the sub description or what?

It’s right under the sub name — see it?

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-02-04T19:26:33+00:00

No, you don't need to be successful in dating. As far as experience goes, everyone has experience, whether it be first-hand or second-hand. I haven't been in a relationship for quite awhile, but I've been observing people for most of my life and have learned through others' experiences as a result.

Having experience to participate is no more of a requirement than knowing what you're talking about, as you will see.

Sid_Insidious · 2021-02-04T19:57:13+00:00

I dunno. How old does experience have to be before it's no longer relevant?

The "game" I ran back in the 90's probably isn't relevant anymore.

OLD was just getting on it's feet. People still met using "chat rooms" or even phone "chat lines" if you can believe THAT! :-)

rft24 · 2021-02-04T19:58:11+00:00

no because it’s not a rule; but i am going to have a hard time taking someone seriously in a debate if they don’t participate in dating, because that means their opinions are uninformed. you don’t have to be super experienced or at your level of “successful,” but it helps your case if you’ve somewhat participated at the very least.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2021-02-04T22:07:02+00:00

I rather go to an experienced surgeon than an arrogant medical student. And a successful surgeon over one constantly sued for medical malpractice. It's best to tune out the Dunning–Krugerian "experts" always.

SeemedGood · 2021-02-04T23:21:56+00:00

His method, which he claimed works for him, was to go in another room and fake a phone call pretend to he had another woman lined up to come over, with hopes that the original woman will feel the pressure of replacement and sleep with him.

Yeah, this guy was a fraud.

the red pill guy is able to further pass himself off as a genius who can get laid by any woman right?

No. Just because ther’s a sucker born every minute doesn’t mean everyone’s a sucker.

Especially when it’s implied that multiple women go to his home already planning on not sleeping with him?

And therein lies the tell.

cloudsongs_ · 2021-02-05T04:30:36+00:00

No, it's not but I do have a harder time taking some of the arguments here seriously when sweeping generalizations are made from someone who may not have any experience in dating or a romantic relationship.

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2021-02-04T17:30:40+00:00

I agree with this post on premise but not on logistical implementation

We're all anonymous. There's no way to know who's who. Requiring success would just mean requiring people who claim to be successful. Lot of LARPers out there.

But the premise is right. IMO if you're not doing well dating yourself, then your opinion just doesn't matter. There's literally no fields where unsuccessful people's opinion matters. Nobody cares about a JV HS basketball player's opinion on LeBron's training methods. Nobody cares about a homeless man's opinion on how to optimize Wall Street. Nobody cares about a residential gardener's opinion of how to build national vertical farms. But in dating, everyone partakes somewhat, so everyone thinks they should be heard. Everyone thinks they know everything about it because someone of the opposite gender once found them attractive. Doesn't really work like that.

Where this sub really has difficulty with unqualified people giving advice is honestly with women. With men, there's at least some ability to sus out who's talking out of their ass, who admits their n-count is low, who just frankly sounds like an idiot giving advice. Because inexperienced men sound stupid to experienced men when talking about this stuff. OTOH, really, only attractive women's opinions matter. Because that's who men actually want. But without pictures, how are we supposed to know them from chubby 2s? When women say "well, all my friends think X"--are we talking about nerdy DnD girls with acne? Are we talking about sorority sluts? Rural farm girls in Nebraska? We have no idea who these people are whatsoever, which changes the interpretation of what they say wildly. And really, there's no practical way to fix that.

Aldabruzzo · 2021-02-04T18:19:56+00:00

No. They let me comment here.

passepar2t · 2021-02-04T18:52:45+00:00

It precludes it.

John_Oakman · 2021-02-04T19:59:00+00:00

Nah. People are going to reject both your anecdotes and cited researched backed data anyways due to them not agreeing with their ideologies, so might as well spew nonsense and farm the likes and the validation that comes with it (or the dislikes and the martyrdom that comes with that).

huhuhuhuh11 · 2021-02-04T21:41:36+00:00

LOL if that were true 90% of the people wouldn’t be here

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-02-04T21:41:59+00:00

It's not required but if you've had some success then you have a better idea of what is possible and what the realities of that may be, and don't have to rely entirely on theorizing.

GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B · 2021-02-04T21:50:57+00:00

Success or failure both results in experience, which is or should be required. The women are mostly successful but unhappy, the men are overwhelmingly unsuccessful (according to the recent survey here, a plurality are virgins and show incel tendencies) and unhappy. The ensuing debate is never ending, unhealthy and fun to watch and participate in.

reluctantly_red · 2021-02-05T04:43:42+00:00

pretend to he had another woman lined up

You don't need to pretend. All you need to do is not be needy. If you go over to her house and you're sitting on the sofa turn on the TV and watch Law & Order reruns or something. If she's interested she'll work real hard to get your attention -- if not you'll know not to waste any more time with her.

Ladyofblades · 2021-02-05T05:44:19+00:00

Lol that method in the above is terrible, most women who are aware of their own value would find it gross and an immediate turn off and leave. Attractive women of any decent value are not impressed by guys who can get laid, that’s a very low standard. This is why you don’t get random advice from “pickup artists” on YouTube

Specterswag · 2021-02-05T06:11:48+00:00

The more I read, the more I begin to think; "no"

iloveyoubutyou · 2021-02-05T06:35:19+00:00

Well I'm here, so clearly not.

geyejoe7 · 2021-02-05T06:39:47+00:00

I think that virgins come up with crazy tactics, like the phone thing, that would never actually work.

If you had a successful long term relationship, you realize how silly all these games are.

And that it would be mutually beneficial if neither of you played games and just enjoyed dating each other, or just break it off if it isn't working.

No manipulation needed.

Carkudo · 2021-02-05T11:51:02+00:00

how can someone reach coherent conclusions, generalizations, and whatever other analysis that take place here without dating success?

The same way a person can acquire accurate knowledge of something through perception instead of performance. The vast majority of human knowledge is of that type, and it's asinine to posit that something can be impossible to know, let alone talk about, without experiecing it.

The real difficulty is that men with no experience of dating success are forced to walk on eggshells here and pretty much anywhere else online these days, but that's a parallel issue to what you're positing.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-02-05T15:34:53+00:00

I literally only came here because I saw guys who cared about the women they dated get repeatedly cheated on (even after taking her back), while I had a “I truly couldn’t care less if you’re out of my life tomorrow” attitude... and I was wondering why I had far greater success with women than the bros who were more “traditional”.

Sir_manalot · 2021-02-05T17:41:21+00:00

No, getting laid is not a requirement to be right or have a point.

People like to ofc insult others for being “failures” so they can win without being right. But that is just stuff that should always be ignored.

All that really matters is if you have a point

Karmanger · 2021-02-05T21:53:38+00:00

It requires experience, its's the only way to see the common issues on what makes someone red/blue, as well as provide context to what each side is complaining about.

Example: You won't care about having to pay for dates if you never been on a date. You also won't care about paying for dates issue if you haven't been on multiple dates that you have gotten rejected from. Once you experience something it becomes real to you. It's like how Meghan McCain is now all of a sudden for paid maternity leave once she got pregnant, when she was against it before.

Title	Does Participation on This Sub Require Dating Success?
Author	Fuego213
Upvotes	9
Comments	106
Date	February 4, 2021 5:20 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lckpy0/does_participation_on_this_sub_require_dating/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-participation-on-this-sub-require-dating.738213 https://theredarchive.com/post/738213

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