Hypergamy by the numbers | PurplePillDebate

Megabyte7637 · 2021-10-15T14:24:00+00:00

In a recent Public opinion poll partnered women now have gains in earnings more than any other group. this is compounded by the fact that single men's...

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[–]eyelinerqueen831 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I will give you that children of single parents do a lot worse in many aspects. They might not be “fine” but the simple fact of having one parent being the factor has less to do with that parent being single than the lack of resources and historical disadvantages inherent in many groups where single parenthood is prevalent.

“Another possibility is that children born to unmarried mothers face more instability in family structure and that this instability results in worse outcomes for the child. In recent years, the focus of social science research has been less on the absence of a father and more on how family instability affects children. In fact, stable single-parent families in which a child does not experience the constant comings and goings of new boyfriends (or girlfriends) or the addition of new half siblings have begun to look like a better environment than “musical” parenthood.[ii]” -linkstudy

There are a myriad of social factors that point to this phenomenon not being because of the incompetence of women, as our very angry OP suggests. You are putting all single parent situations in the same pot and calling it anecdotal when there is hardly a cookie cutter situation for single motherhood. I think you all just really want to blame feminism but nothing in reality supports that. Sorry.

[–]eyelinerqueen83 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (55 children) | Copy Link

Everyday health? Cringe. Here is one for you.

“The weak parenting skills found among single parents in the study may be related not only to the lack of a second parent, but to a lack of income and education as well. Education, in particular, stands out as the most critical factor in explaining poor parenting. But it is not clear that we should look at these variables in isolation from one another. In real life, compared to married parents, single parents tend to be poorer (because there is not a second earner in the family) and less well-educated (in part because early childbearing interrupts or discourages education), and this is what matters for their children. “

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/are-children-raised-with-absent-fathers-worse-off/

As you can see, there are societal factors that contribute children of single parents having disadvantages. It not single mom=bad. Like everything else in reality, it’s an aggregate effect that includes many factors working together. I recommend reading A Framework for Undertaking Poverty. It’s a short read and it will help you have a better understanding.

[–]gaivsjvlivscaesarPurple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (54 children) | Copy Link

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[–]eyelinerqueen830 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah I don’t really know why you’d want a societal message put out that single parenthood should be avoided. Obviously no one is seeking that out. You’re focusing on the wrong things of you want to see less of that happening, particularly the way the single parents are disenfranchised by our society already. There does not need to be a message, it’s already clear that single parents, particularly mothers have huge obstacles. THOSE OBSTACLES not just the lack of a father or the fact that they’re women are more likely the deciding factor in a child’s success.

I have a dad so no I do not hate dads. But they aren’t magical. Telling people that fathers are the secrets ingredient to the success of children is disingenuous when that is but one factor making single motherhood as hard as it is. Male energy in a child’s life is not the magical solution. Its solving huge societal problems with the way people in poverty are kept from resources.

[–]gaivsjvlivscaesar3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Obviously no one is seeking that out.

People might not be seeking it out, but rates of single parenthood are rising very fast, especially single motherhood, so it is still rising very quickly regardless of whether people are seeking it out, and that is an issue that we need to deal with.

THOSE OBSTACLES not just the lack of a father or the fact that they’re women are more likely the deciding factor in a child’s success.

Those obstacles will always remain there. Obviously two parents will be able to bring in two incomes, so they will on average always be more financially stable and richer than single parents. I don't really know what society can do to fix that except for maybe paying single parents with tax refunds or something else. But all that will do is encourage more and more single parenthood.

I have a dad so no I do not hate dads. But they aren’t magical. Telling people that fathers are the secrets ingredient to the success of children is disingenuous when that is but one factor making single motherhood as hard as it is.

Really? So if your father was never there you don't think that would have had a major impact on your life? I mean maybe you had a poor relationship with your father but for most people they would all admit that their father being there had an incredibly positive impact on their lives.

I never said that fathers are the secret ingredients to the success of the children. Stop making up what I said. Nor did I say that they are magical. I also never said that fathers are secret ingredients to the success of children. But you are downplaying the impact that fathers have on children, and there have been a range of studies that I can quote to quite easily to prove that fathers are important in the lives of their children. I also never said that education or money don't play a role, obviously they do, but the role of fathers is also quite important, and it isn't just "one factor". Moreover, feminism is absolutely responsible for the rise in single parenthood. Feminism has always encouraged promiscuity, ESPECIALLY female promiscuity, under the guise of the "sexual liberation" of women. That is at least a part of the reason for the massive rise in single parenthood.

[–]eyelinerqueen831 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]eyelinerqueen830 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well, I didn’t call you lonely. But if that’s what you gleaned from my statement then that says a lot about you. But yes, there is evidence that women are actually LESS sexually promiscuous than in days past. There are many studies about this I will link below. Millennials, my generation, and your generation, which I assume is Gen Z are far less promiscuous and both Gen X and Baby Boomers. Both generations in which feminism was not nearly as saturated into society as it is now.

Cardi B is a poor example of women being sexually promiscuous as it is just a song and hardly the first or last song to be about women having sex. You probably weren’t born yet, but there was a female rapper called Lil Kim about 20 years ago that was much more explicit than Cardi B. So this is nothing new. It’s just a song.

Anyway, you are making assumptions about feminism that are very broad brush when it’s a very complicated philosophy with lots of branches and waves. Learn more about it, I encourage you.

Link to study about younger people being less promiscuous, one of many:

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/americans_are_having_less_sex_but_is_that_a_problem

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[–]eyelinerqueen830 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Your interpretation of me telling why I can’t fight with you all day is on you. You picked to interpret it that way and you picked to be offended by it. Anyway, as far as philosophy feminism does not tell anyone to go out and have as many sexual partners as possible.

What it does do it encourage women who want to do that to not be ashamed of it. If no one is being hurt and everyone is safe, then there is nothing wrong with promiscuity. It’s just a choice, and not really a choice very many people are picking especially now. I didn’t pick that for myself because I don’t like sex all that much. But some women like it a lot and thrive on having it with some different people sometimes. Men do the same thing and have never in history been shamed for it. Even across cultures men have enjoyed promiscuously with no loss of social capital. Feminism seeks to even that discrepancy.

What confuses me is men who hate feminism to talking the shame out of female enjoyment of sex. Why aren’t you all mad at the men who enjoy the same thing? Weird isn’t it.

[–]gaivsjvlivscaesar2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The reason why female promiscuity was shamed was not because of arbitrary reasons like oppression, it was because the cost of reckless sex was way higher for women, and it still is. Women can get pregnant, men can’t. That is literally the reason. Birth control only came about recently, and even then the risks are far higher for women than for men. A man could have reckless sex with 10 women and he wouldn’t really face any consequences, unless the state decided to step in. Whereas a woman could get pregnant from having reckless sex just once. Even today raising children by yourself is hard enough, despite all the technology and childcare services that we have available, back then it was pretty much impossible. This is why in most societies if a man impregnated a woman he would be forced to marry her, and this was one of restricting male promiscuity. Moreover a man is literally wired to have sex with as many women as possible to spread his genes. Only 40% of men historically were reproductively successful, compared to 80% of women. To make up for this discrepancy, men were encouraged to have as much sex as possible, and women weren’t. And promiscuity absolutely can have consequences, especially if it leads to children. Personally I dislike both male and female promiscuity, and I don’t see it as something to be encouraged.

[–]eyelinerqueen830 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men didn’t have consequences? Lol that’s funny. You ever heard of syphilis? Is was basically a pandemic for most of history. So yes. The double standard was very real, because most everywhere men where arbiters of what was proper. Excuses like wahhh men are SUPPOSED to have more sex and women always get pregnant every time they have reckless sex, are just excuses to act like you have a moral high ground. You don’t. You have a vague understanding of historical sexuality and science. And in your case, vague is being generous.

The history of sex is filled with all genders having all kinds of sex all the time. It’s not new and it’s actually metric tons less of a thing than it’s ever been in the past. Like EVER. So why so mad? You live in the most chaste era this world has ever seen. If that’s still not good enough for you then I guess I just need a time machine to drop you into Ancient Rome. So you can see how much less fucking is happening now.

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I applaud your attempts to prove that barring women from sexual freedom was purely pragmatic but that isn’t the case. There was considerable moral panic attached to the idea of women having sexual and financial independence from men for like most of western history. Women were considered to be inherently sinister by Christianity. There’s so much documentation on that it would make your head spin. In fact, you are displaying a lot of that moral panic yourself. Why? Is it because you are a pragmatist or because you hate that women have more freedom to have sex with men who aren’t you? You seem way less concerned with men being promiscuous so it makes me wonder. And no, the idea that women being promiscuous now has more consequences does not work. A lot of us have IUDs or birth control. So what’s your real beef?

[–]gaivsjvlivscaesar2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]eyelinerqueen831 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Abortions are safe of done by a doctor in a sterile medical environment. But anyway, it still stands that unequal sexual freedom for men was t just a pragmatic fact of life. Men weren’t like sorry dames, it just isn’t logical for you to join me at the brothel because it might make you pregnant and give us both syphilis. That was not the conversation. It’s was however that women were expected to be more naturally chaste than men and were punished for not being that. Have you never read up on western culture? That’s a mainstay of history. It’s in literature, plays, medical documentation, etc. The moral baggage of western human sexuality is heavy. No one was trying to Ayn Rand their way into keeping women chaste, it was a moral imperative in a lot of western history especially the 19 century.

As for women dying in pregnancy now, the cause of that is simple. Inadequate healthcare. In developed countries women in poverty die more often in childbirth than women with means. Which again. Has zero to do with promiscuous behavior.

Promiscuous women are not the problem.

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Exactly my point, you don't understand sampling.

The survey asked for marriage and cohabitation, with unpartnered people being the ones who aren't neither married nor cohabitating. If there's polygamy in the US, it's not wildly practiced and its numbers won't be significant in any poll. Therefore, for every cohabitating/married woman there's a married/cohabitating men. There's no way that someone can be as deluded as to think they're married or cohabitating when they are not.

You might see marriage/cohabitating gap between genders favoring women when there is a surplus of men, but this isn't the case in the United States either. For this reason, the only logical explanation is that either married women or unpartnered men are overrepresented in the sample. This is what response/non-response bias is. No matter how accurately Pew tries to obtain its sample, it's up to the people to answer the questions and some people are more likely to answer than others.

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Wait what? Where did you read that women coming from poverty are causing this trend by marrying up? I don’t know if you’re aware, but rich guys do not marry women from poverty a la Cinderella. The reason women like myself are enjoying financial success on an upswing is because we have more access to financial independence than the vast majority of women before us. I was able to get an education and a career with a salary with none of the roadblocks or societal finger wagging of days past. I didn’t need to marry up to do this. I married within my economic class, like nearly everyone else. My success isn’t due to good digging. It’s my access to career and financial independence that made this possible. This is the case for all married women in my class. Rich men don’t mess around with women like me.

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[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]eyelinerqueen83 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Snacksbreak 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OfSpock 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]eyelinerqueen83 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]eyelinerqueen83 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]eyelinerqueen83 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]eyelinerqueen83 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]eyelinerqueen83 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cunningcaring 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Urbantexasguy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Urbantexasguy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Urbantexasguy 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Urbantexasguy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilDark chocolate = best chocolate 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilDark chocolate = best chocolate 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilDark chocolate = best chocolate 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilDark chocolate = best chocolate 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OhyarlysmilesI'm the guy in my profile pic pill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rredirt -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]eyelinerqueen83 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilDark chocolate = best chocolate 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

/u/Eyelinerqueen83

This girl was a model.

She came from a poor family in Chicago, her brother was delinquent & ended up in the military because he was causing domestic violence in the house. She was extremely poor, she signed with Wilhelmina model's moved to NYC & started university.

She got trapped in her contract & was making next to no money & was desperate to escape, the entire time she went through a string of relationships(one a month) with both wealthy/bad boys that didn't pan out.

Eventually she found this current guy got pregnant & when she told him he didn't want to claim it at first, she locked her social media & said she was going to start an /r/OnlyFans to support herself. Eventually she strong-armed him & now things have taken there natural course.

We used to talk, she used to party & smoke weed alot that was her personality she's completely changed to secure the wealthy partner she has.

[–]eyelinerqueen83 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]eyelinerqueen83 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]eyelinerqueen83 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SlipthePleasure to be of cervix -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilDark chocolate = best chocolate 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SlipthePleasure to be of cervix -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeilDark chocolate = best chocolate 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModerator[M] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t feel sold that this is textbook hypergamy, I think it’s a lot more complicated than that. Women don’t need to be in a relationship with a man because they can make their own money, this then allows them to date longer and forgo marriage until they’re absolutely certain it’s what they want.

It also could mean that men simply aren’t being proactive enough when it comes to seeking a partner. If women’s standards are higher, you’d also have to work harder to attract a mate. This isn’t inherently a bad thing.

It’s difficult to look at trends and then apply them in general terms because relationships are between individuals.

I don’t think it’s necessarily that men don’t make enough money to impress a woman, it’s that women don’t need to be impressed by money anymore. So if anything this could potentially read as an argument against hypergamy

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[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]huhwhatokok 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nick1812216 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

Women used to have to marry a man in order to have financial security outside of their parents home. Now women can build their own financial security, meaning they are choosing partners based on their wants, needs and desires rather than as a economic move of necessity.

In the meantime, our global capitalist economic system consistently chiseled away at the value of labor and earning power, specifically for those without college degrees and specifically for men.

So we have a surfeit of well educated, economically independent women who are not swayed by male prospects who are under employed and live at home with their parents (31% per the article). These women are opting out of marriage rather than modifying their standards (is having standards hypergamy?) and marriage is becoming increasingly a behavior of the educated and wealthy. As marriage declines, so does the fertility rate. This is a problem that needs to be addressed by not by addressing "women's hypergamy" but by dealing with the desperate economic situation in this country for middle and low income men and wealth inequality in general.

At the end of the day, women want to marry a man with a job. Is women wanting to marry men with a job evidence of hypergamy? (What isn't hypergamy?)

Per the article, the societal feeling that men should be able to be providers for their wives and future families is equally held by men and women, sexist bullshit or not.

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Willow-girlQuack addict 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlQuack addict 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlQuack addict 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I still feel UBI is the way to go

I don't. Twenty years ago, I worked for an Indian tribe that split a portion of its casino profits among its members. This was a tribe that had started out with its own homegrown gaming operation, run by its own people, and grew it into an incredibly successful business. Two generations down the road, many of the young people can't even be bothered to finish high school; I mean why bother when you can just party and live off your per-capita check? These are kids who could be anything or do anything they please; they have full-ride scholarships available to pursue any avenue of study, yet many choose to do fuck-all. It boggles the mind.

So ... giving people money is not the answer, IMO. I also think it would create incredible unrest in society, as the people who remained industrious in spite of the handout would quickly come to resent the rest and would refuse to support them for long.

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlQuack addict 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The good thing about UBI is that it's universal.

But the upper class will have to be taxed -- and taxed hard -- to pay for it. The money essentially would be going in one pocket and out the other (minus some skimmed off by the government for administrative costs, heh). Plus there would be tremendous societal disruption as the working class, released from bondage, quit their jobs. (And I would be at the head of that line!) What happens when no one shows up to wash dishes at the restaurant or change adult diapers down at the nursing home?

The chin-strokers who propose this kind of silliness have always worked clean-hands jobs which probably come with a sense of fulfillment. They don't understand that people like me work only to survive, and once that is no longer necessary, we will flee the workforce so fast it'll make your heads spin. The middle class and up, given a UBI, would spend the extra money on a cruise or a new AppleWatch or some such. But if you clean toilets for living as I do, there is nothing you could buy that would make you happier than simply never having to clean another public restroom.

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]relish5k1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]eyelinerqueen83 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not that women are marrying into wealth. The trend is likely caused by the increased access women have had over the last 50 odd years to things like education and financial security. I am a married woman with my own job and my husband and I make roughly the same salary. My level of financial security comes from my access to a career and a salary, not from my marriage. We split all bills down the middle and have no kids, giving us a large amount of financial freedom to do what we want. If we were to divorce, I would still be able to support myself because of the access I have to financial independence, something women of my grandmother’s generation didn’t have.

Of men are not earning as much while single as women who are married, it’s likely that these men were always earning less, and women have caught up on the last half century. Making it appear that women are getting a leg up. Really we are just taking advantage of our opportunities when some men probably aren’t.

[–]FatPam007 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man[S] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FatPam007 -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Ruben_the_Fish -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Hypergamy by the numbers
Author	Megabyte7637
Upvotes	52
Comments	300
Date	October 15, 2021 2:24 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/q8piwr/hypergamy_by_the_numbers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/hypergamy-by-the-numbers.1079370 https://theredarchive.com/post/1079370

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