British men quit their jobs 'when too many women join their departments'

Initiative-Pitiful · 2023-02-02T20:42:45+00:00

Where I work [factory] women are able to refuse the physically hard jobs while men are required to do them. We are paid the exact same rate

Unnecessary_Timeline · 2023-02-02T16:10:27+00:00

Here's a link to the actual study.

Notable bits from the Results and Discussion sections:

The results show a substantial and clear tendency of men to leave occupations when more women enter (θ = − 2.08, p < 0.001). Combined with the main parameter, this allows to calculate changes in men’s probability to leave their occupation dependent on female inflow. For example, an increase of 10% in the proportion of women moving into an occupation reduces the probability of men to stay by ~12%. Men are approximately only half as likely to stay in an occupation with 75% female inflow compared to 25% female inflow

more male-typed occupations – denoted by a decreased tendency of women to move into, or stay within these occupations – tend to require apprenticeships or higher education degrees, high rates of full-time work, and the use of physical strength.

Female-typed occupations are rather in the public sector, and use fine-motor, and social skills.

The assumption that the model specification is a true representation of the real world is equally questionable. Consequently, the results of the simulation provide an intuition about the effect sizes of the model parameters – in particular in comparison to one another – not an expectation what would happen in the actual world

Koda1214 · 2023-02-02T15:25:13+00:00

I have worked in construction for 22 years which is male dominated. About 10 years ago I thought I would try something different so I worked in a care home which is female dominated. The biggest difference I noticed was how toxic it was the women I was working with were the crudest and most disgusting people I have ever worked with. While thay were giving personal care to men in the home washing them and so on some of them would talk about mutilating them while thay were trying to cover them self's up it was the most disgusting environment I have ever worked in. Toxic poison that was what those people were.

bottleblank · 2023-02-02T14:47:08+00:00

So... wouldn't that essentially put men in the same position women complain about when there's "too many men" and it makes them feel like it's some sort of "boys club"? Seems like that would justify complaining about "female-centric workplaces causing men to feel uncomfortable and excluded".

Goose, gander, etc.

CawlinAlcarz · 2023-02-02T19:29:15+00:00

I have been in the workforce (US) since 1992. I've spent 23 years of that time working in fortune 500 companies that every single one of you would recognize if I named them.

These are my observations and experiences regarding women in the workplace. I suspect that things are even worse in the UK for these sorts of issues, especially today:

Generally speaking, women can be just as productive as men, but they do not have to be because women are not held to the same behavior and performance standards as men are in corporate environments. Women who inisist they are held to higher standards than men are are either lying, or referring to a time before 1990.

As a man, every woman that joins the department increases the likelihood that the workplace will become hostile or toxic to men.

With every new woman in the department, the likelihood increases that the man will be falsely accused of some sort of sexual harrassment or gender-based discrimination.

The likelihood that the man will be passed over for deserved promotions increases because diversity quotas will favor women being promoted over the man regardless of performance.

The likelihood that the man will wind up with an incompetent and hostile female boss increases due to diversity quotas and the fact that women aren't held to the same performance or behavior standards in the workplace that men are.

The ONLY times I've seen subordinates raise their voices in argument to their bosses were women yelling at their male bosses above them.

I was falsely accused of sexual harrassment by a female supervisor (complaint was not made to HR, but was made to the rest of her team, who all witnessed the supposed event and knew their supervisor's claim was bullshit).

The ONLY people who have stolen credit for my work have been women - the one was my boss - who took the results of some work that I did on my own initiative, presented it to senior management as her own. This resulted in a huge accolades for her and significant changes (increased efficiencies) to the way of working for the entire organization. She didn't tell senior management that I was the one who had these insights and who did the reasearch and made the proposals, but at least she did have the decency to give me a big fat raise.

When a woman's incompetence becomes an issue, she can get away with it by crying.

I have witnessed this firsthand. During an audit, I discovered a female Ph.D. was falsifying data. I knew exactly what she'd done, but could not come out and directly accuse her. I explained the issue to my female boss (the one that I spoke about above who stole credit for my work), and my boss suggested that both she and I interview the female Ph.D. about the issue together (in retrospect, I realize that my female boss did me a HUGE solid there by ensuring that there could be no assertions by the Ph.D. of impropriety if my boss was in the room with me and the other female).

My boss asked me to take the lead in the inquiry but asked me not to make an "interrogation" out of it. So I "interviewed" the Ph.D. about the issue with my female boss right beside me. Despite the Ph.D.'s evasiveness and disdain for me, we eventually got down to brass tacks. The woman had to either assert that the electronic system suddenly malfunctioned ONLY for her data inputs over the span of two whole days (which would have triggered a LENGTHY and resource intensive investigation of the system itself), or that she'd falsified the data.

She began to cry, and I didn't know how to respond to that. I was in my late 20s and this Ph.D. was nearly 40 - it was unnerving to me - there's no CRYING in corporate America!

My boss asked me very nicely if she and the Ph.D. could have the room. I left. A half hour later, the Ph.D. went on her way, and my boss came to me and told me that ordinarily what happened would trigger a significant review whose outcome included possible/likely termination of the Ph.D. and surely at least, a reprimand that would follow her for the rest of her career at this company. My boss thanked me for the thorough audit and complimented me on the expertise I had which made it unlikely that anyone but me would have even found this issue.

She assured me that I'd done nothing wrong in the inquiry, and that she didn't think my line of questioning was too heavy handed or inappropriate, and that she felt I had handled everything perfectly. In the end though, she asked me to rewrite my finding in such a way that it did not specifically condemn the Ph.D. for falsifying data. In short, we let her get away with it.

odysseytree · 2023-02-02T15:05:13+00:00

Not surprising. Rumours about you that you have no defense against quickly spread behind your back. In schools, male teachers hear about themselves that they are called paedophiles behind their back.

BrokeMacMountain · 2023-02-02T14:48:42+00:00

I saw this reported in a national newspaper called 'metro. but they didnt have the story on their website. This was the only website i could find with this story, but it is the same report.

Has anyone here experienced this?

Where i worked a few years ago, we had a new female general manager come in, who then appointed a female assistant gm, and promoted women over men to higher positions, despite having less experience. I noticed when we had meetings, or were in the office that the women would 'huddle' together discussing topics that i and other men were never a part of. We were excluded a lot, and when we were allowed in on the conversations, they would often be about sex, or dildos etc. Any dirty or hard work, such as manual labour was always handed to men, while the easier cleaner roles were given to the women.

So, has anyone else experienced this as well? Are men leaving female dominated work places because we are being excluded?

hottake_toothache · 2023-02-02T21:01:26+00:00

How strange that, after positions fill up with women, transforming the work environment into a magical, beautiful, empathic place, the men choose to leave paradise. /s

pacsatonifil · 2023-02-02T21:50:09+00:00

I work with mostly women. 2/3 of them are wonderful stable adults and I wouldn’t mind working with them. The other 1/3 are motional and irrational. For example this woman gets mad that a man asked me for help when she was clearly busy and he just didn’t want to bother her. She said it was sexist. Then she is rude to people and the next minute she is so nice. Then they put me in the middle because I am a man and they hate the women in the other department. The tension is annoying. It’s goofy shit! I dream of working with men again. Thank god I am gay and I go home to a man. Y’all it’s a blessing to live with a man. House looks a bit messy, but it doesn’t bother us. Everyone always says I look young. I think it’s because I don’t have someone nagging me at home. Before anyone goes crazy on me lesbians get away with saying worse things about men and no one cares. Why can’t gay men be the same?

TryThisDickdotCom · 2023-02-02T19:45:08+00:00

in my experience - men like it cooler in the workplace - women like it warmer. when there's more women in the workplace - it tends to be too fucking hot to work.

its also my experience - women prefer to wear less clothing, the more women present - the less clothing they will want to wear - and why not make it a tad warmer.

perhaps - its not the cattiness or the constant having to hear the low key casual misandry. Its the absurd amount of gossip in a fucking sweltering hot office.

SD_TMI · 2023-02-02T19:29:19+00:00

I think that one aspect is that working in a unbalanced environment changes the culture and with how women are encouraged to pull abuse (false sexual advance/harassment claims)
it becomes dangerous to work there unless you're openly homosexual.

I've seen and have heard these discussions where it's brought up that HR will take such claims automatically as the mans fault and automatically guilty if someone says "they make me feel uncomfortable".

I've seen a man get forced out of his position and eventually fired due to a compltely unsubstantiated claim of "uncomfortable" in the workplace. That's the environment that men are being forced to work in... and all it takes is someone to say that to end a career and be forced to look for new work.

chortle-guffaw · 2023-02-02T20:27:31+00:00

Many female coworkers have said that they hate working with a lot of other women, and especially hate women bosses. This is always unsolicited information, or in response to something said or done.

I've never heard this from a man. That doesn't mean they're not thinking it, just that they're not verbalizing it.

Motalo · 2023-02-02T15:55:49+00:00

I don't think that's the whole story at all. If an office workforce reaches 75% female, that's a 3:1 female/male ratio. That's very unbalanced. I think that means the bosses and HR doing the hiring are biased against men, and thus the workspace in hostile for male workers.

another-cosplaytriot · 2023-02-02T15:10:41+00:00

The more women in your department, the more you will be expected to pick up after their incompetence.

Buddy3733 · 2023-02-02T20:33:46+00:00

What I hugh eye opener this discussion is for me. I thought it was just me. -worked in a gov’t office. The ladies would come in late, eat their breakfast at their desk and then go for a coffee break. -worked in a quasi gov’t office. Stole credit for my work, one tried to make it seem like I was harassing her (verbal) of what I still don’t know, my work ethic was questioned against a support person who spent the day on Facebook; she triumphed, and the list goes on. -during university worked at a food processing plant on the evening shift. The day shift was primarily older post menopausal females who spent the majority of the day in the washroom for female hygiene reasons. The guys had to wait for lunch and coffee breaks, which was fine with us. Our evening shift was 1/3 the number of people yet we produced 3 times the product as the day shift. We were the bad guys for over producing. -ran a small business for a while. The bank across the street was impossible to deal with if the staff were all female. All it took was one male and things ran like clock work. -at one office was returning to work from a back injury and written up for not shovelling snow from the side walk. There were six healthy females who were not expected to shovel, just me, the only male return from back surgery. -and the list goes on……..

taloninthenight · 2023-02-02T18:14:29+00:00

I used to work in a bar with men and women,sometimes the shifts were male heavy and some female heavy and everytime it was mostly female someone would end up walking out because they'd bitch about each other.the guys would normally just crack on with the job and have a beer after.

_Denzo · 2023-02-02T21:06:37+00:00

There’s only 1 issue I have with diversity in jobs it’s that they are hiring some people more for their race or gender to be more “inclusive” and some people are dismissed because of their race or gender. I think the best way to go with diversity is to just throw race and gender out of the window and accept people for who they are as a person and their experience. Since diversity was created on the basis that some people aren’t hired because of their gender or race and some work forces are “male dominated”

Morden013 · 2023-02-02T16:15:18+00:00

I bet you they can't stand that "wholesome and fulfilling" atmosphere that is created.

ExMuzzy · 2023-02-02T18:51:51+00:00

My first job was female dominated. There were only four of us guys and the rest were women but the rota was setup so there would be only 1 or 2 guys in the office at the same time.. Me and the guys left as soon as we got hired elsewhere because some of the women would try to fob their work off on us even though they were not our seniors. The manager was the chivalrous type so he just enabled them. It was a shitty place to work but me and the lads are still in touch.

notsureoftheanswer · 2023-02-02T21:01:02+00:00

The majority of my work career, I have women managers and soley women coworkers.

The inappropriate conversations they have in my presence would not be acceptable if the sexes were switched.

I am about to retire, but I feel bad for the young men entering the workplace, especially in this woke era, godspeed 🙏

ReniaTycoon · 2023-02-02T22:09:37+00:00

Sadly the higher the number of females in a typically male orientated career the higher the chances of a false SA accusation.

motogek · 2023-02-02T15:38:12+00:00

Simulation studies using British workforce data ...

More detail here. Way beyond my stats understanding, but I think it's a computer simulation based on the workforce data rather than, for example, a simulation involving human participants.

“Nurse as an occupation tends to be described with stereotypically female attributes, such as social and caring. If the majority of nurses were men, we might use entirely different words to describe the occupation, for example, requiring authority or being physically demanding.”

Not in my social circle, and I'm sure not in the social circle of Prof Dr Per Block of the University of Zurich. It would get very chilly indeed if, for example, if I described any nurses I know as being caring or nurturing (despite that word's etymological connection with nurse), or suggested that the nursing profession was a good fit for women with those qualities. The accepted way of speaking about nurses in my social circle is along the lines of - she's a tough cookie, she's not queasy about blood, she deals with the reality of death every day. I could turn a crank on any of my dinner party acquaintances and get a lecture about how nurses are no longer the Florence Nightingale figures who mop brows and soothe nightmares, and in fact they never were, that actually Florence Nightingale was a supremely forceful leader and administrator. I guess that's an anti-stereotype, where respectable middle class people are aware of the stereotype and are overcompensating.

fukklibtards · 2023-02-02T17:47:11+00:00

Ive heard and read that men dont like working with women because they make their life a living hell.

VioletDaeva · 2023-02-02T21:33:13+00:00

I once had the misfortune of working in a team of seven women as the only man in my first job after university.

It was the crudest environment I have ever worked in. Men may have some innuendo in banter but the women I worked with were explicit in talking about general sex, their own sex lives in detail, and belittling their partners.

For the most part I was ignored but it wasn't a very pleasant working environment. I actually got on pretty well with the people I worked with on an individual level and still talk to some of them frequently twenty years later. It's just in a group they were awful to work with.

matrixislife · 2023-02-02T23:20:34+00:00

If 75% of the workforce are women, then men have already left their jobs. This means the place is full of people who have just come in, this usually puts a heavy load on experienced staff. If the women have been brought in to make up diversity numbers then they are anecdotally notoriously unskilled making the workload even worse for the regular staff.

obesetial · 2023-02-03T01:35:25+00:00

The article says that professions which see a rise from 25% to 75% female see more men leave the professions.

The word game here is deceiving. These professions already see women coming in and men leaving so obviously the trend will continue. If company A had 25 women and 75 men in 2020 and it the had 75 women and 25 women in 2021, what do you think will happen in 2022?! Mist likely the trend will continue.

Let's ask these questions instead, why did these companies have such a dramatic increase in female vs. male employees? Is it government incentives which favour women? Is it hiring policies which favour women?

Instead, this article is asking the asinine question why is it that what happened in the past, continue to happen?

Asrealasrealcanbe · 2023-02-02T18:17:44+00:00

men avoid drama. makes perfect sense.

lumpynose · 2023-02-02T19:10:07+00:00

The team suggested this could indicate that employees were consciously or unconsciously avoiding working in mixed-gender occupations.

I'd say that it's much less due to conscious or unconscious avoidance but rather due to the realization that the women aren't doing as much work as the men and the supervisors aren't dealing with them.

At least that's been my experience; women who work well below the level of their job title and their supervisor doesn't or can't do anything about it, probably out of fear that they'll be accused of sexism/misogyny (if the supervisor is a man). I worked as a combination software developer and server system administrator and it was always the case that the guys would learn new stuff, new technology, new tools, etc. on their own, because we found such things interesting and useful, while the women wouldn't learn new stuff unless directed to by their supervisor.

hoagie_man09 · 2023-02-02T21:56:03+00:00

I think HR departments need a lot more accountability in general. I worked for a university that had a direct correlation between going to HR, for any other reason than being told to, and getting let go. Regardless of gender or the issue. This wasn’t the only time I’ve seen corruption associated with RH departments.

Minute_Ad_1494 · 2023-02-02T18:25:07+00:00

Some people are more comfortable with the same gender. Nothing wrong with it its their life let them quit if they want

HesperianDragon · 2023-02-02T16:42:34+00:00

I blame microaggressions.

Why stay in a snake den hoping you don't get bit?

TheSnesLord · 2023-02-03T00:17:05+00:00

Useless article as it doesn't actually say WHY the men quit their jobs when there are too many women join their departments.

I guess it is because the reasons (i.e. the truth) would put women in a negative light, and we all know that we can never ever do that.

RootBeerRaptor · 2023-02-03T03:37:04+00:00

Another weird thing I've noticed is that whenever a company has a female CEO, at least 80% of the staff are female. But when its a male CEO, it's 50 - 50.

Dry-Location9176 · 2023-02-03T00:19:38+00:00

In my experience of working in an office that was almost exclusively female managers, they were unwilling or unable to confront each other with difficult conversations so they spent all their energy sniping at each other through other channels including their subordinates and put them in incredibly tense and awkward situations, it was extremely toxic.

The senior leadership was too busy patting each other on the back about their diversity accomplishments to acknowledge the culture was destroying souls.

I'm not against diversity but leadership is serious and requires a specific set of skills and human qualities and those positions need to be carefully considered, genitals should not be a factor in those decisions.

xxxkinkthrowaway · 2023-02-03T01:07:03+00:00

Female majority workplaces are so cliqued and toxic. Occasionally you find the odd nice person, but they're the exception.

threwawaythedaytoday · 2023-02-03T10:03:12+00:00

I mean this makes sense in real world time.

There are jobs where they are actively recruiting women for the sake of diversity and them being women. In a jobs space, women behave very differently: socially and psychologically, than men. If I was the only male in a department I would also consider my options to leave as in 2023 I would be scared to voice my opinion without it coming across as offending someone, the likelihood of people listening to a "man" and if any interpersonal problems occurs the women would group and side with each other.

It happens day to day in work places. Women are more likely to come together to oust a man for alleged problems then visa versa. A lot of men feel unsafe in a working environment dominated/ majorities by women. They are not misogynists, they just do not feel safe. We should question why. The work place is not equal. The dogma is that inequality favours men, but it is wrong.

If I said this in front of my boss I would lose my job, and thats precisely the issue.

(And miss me with the trash shit "oh but if your not a misogynist you wouldn't have to worry about causing offend" people give offended if you sniff your nose near them without a mask.)

Drougen · 2023-02-03T01:18:50+00:00

Thankfully most of the women I've worked with were for the most part pretty tame, but none of them were in positions where a lot of control was.

The worst was probably HR at a company started getting mad because we wanted to get cable at a home we were renting to work on expanding the company half way across the country.

Yes, home. A team of 5 of us all worked together well enough that we agreed it would be more cost effective and comfortable for everyone if we just rented a house with enough rooms for all of us to stay while we built a large expansion. We were already scraping by buying the cheapest bare minimum shit to make everything livable, I actually had a bed that really fucked my back up and made me miserable and they had the audacity to complain that we wanted to be able to watch TV or other small things constantly.

beleidigtewurst · 2023-02-03T14:34:19+00:00

This doesn't show this cause.

Which might well be that the very reason number of women was raising at that particular job was that there was anti-male stance.

Led-Rain · 2023-02-03T05:36:39+00:00

I can confirm, working in a department, crew, or anything when the majority is women, is a miserable time. You are guaranteed non-stop drama and stress from constant HR calls/talks. One job had me working on the opposite side of the building. I took my lunches alone. And I had to explain this at least once every 3 months to HR lady, there isn't even an opportunity for me to interact with the women; because they leave an hour after I get there.

Many_Temperature2116 · 2023-02-02T20:28:12+00:00

Bruh

Personal_Ice2327 · 2023-02-03T07:09:05+00:00

Good for them.. u already know what’s about to come next…. Toxic energy 🤷🏽‍♂️I’m just saying
They should not quit unless they have a job ready to hire them though. I hope so

angryearth · 2023-02-02T20:33:54+00:00

Hey girl cooties are serious fucking business. Can’t take any chances.

TheMorningJoe · 2023-02-03T02:14:36+00:00

Based

StefHouteman · 2023-02-02T22:31:19+00:00

Just goes to show how immature a lot of men are. A lot of men lack ambition.

einsumzwei · 2023-02-02T19:04:56+00:00

because of “insecurities” males can’t handle women 😢

casserole66 · 2023-02-03T00:55:14+00:00

I work with mostly all women. It’s not so bad. I’m even the “hot guy” in the office. Just think before you speak.

SpidersBiteMe · 2023-02-05T00:27:47+00:00

I work in product management in America which (for those of you unfamiliar) is supposed to be about guiding and driving priority of what engineering teams build to solve business problems and keep customers happy. More and more this profession is turning in to a squad catty of toxic women demeaning engineers behind their back and taking credit for what they build. Seems there is always one or two ACTUALLY badass women on the team but the mean girl gangs with their vocal fry usually out number single out and sabatage the cool ones. There is a study or stat somewhere that says women generally care more about people and relationships than things and systems and this holds true. I see men in this field focus on data and process and these often toxic women focus on he said she said posturing. Again, not all...but it's becoming the norm. Hate to keep watching firebomb the ACTUAL #GIRLBOSSES who rock but yet fed up and end up quitting. I don't know what's driving this.

Title	British men quit their jobs 'when too many women join their departments'
Author	BrokeMacMountain
Upvotes	676
Comments	144
Date	February 2, 2023 2:42 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/10rrfof/british_men_quit_their_jobs_when_too_many_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/british-men-quit-their-jobs-when-too-many-women.1150334 https://theredarchive.com/post/1150334

Comments