Are we fanatics?

linearThinker · 2013-06-12T15:03:38+00:00

Feminists campaigned for the right to vote while simultaneously campaigning for the conscription of men. By giving women the right to vote without the civil burden of being subjected to conscription, feminism has brought on wars, killing, concentration camps, starvations and endless cruelties, all made possible by a privileged class (women) who have the power to control the government without consequence to themselves.

OuiCrudites · 2013-06-12T14:37:25+00:00

They're not your friend in the first place if they would drop you like that.

giegerwasright · 2013-06-12T14:41:08+00:00

The women of history have fought no wars because they have always had men available to serve them as a proxy. In a manner of speaking, feminists are right. If men did not avail themselves to women as their proxies for their dirty work, then those women would have to do it themselves. And we would see a very different world indeed.

There is a fanatical element here, and as the movement gets bigger, so does it. And it gets deeper as well. Its problematic and the exact type of thing that keeps me away from political groups. I worry more every day that this movement will ultimately go the way of feminism. Become populated and controlled by people blinded by ego centrism, rage, and self inflicted frustration.

At this point, though, it sounds as if he's the fanatic.

DavidByron · 2013-06-12T14:34:15+00:00

Feminism has fought no wars

Feminism has backed a number of recent imperialist wars by boosting the "We got to save their women folk from those evil men" narrative that was used to encourage support for the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya and Syria.

It has killed no opponents

Like the Women's Ku Klux Klan, the only other female based hate movement I am aware of, feminists tend to practise their violence by proxy. They get others (men) to do it for them, and this is a typical way of committing violence by women. In that regard you can see feminist lobbying for many laws that punish legitimate male behaviour (eg sexual harassment laws) or that remove basic rights to a fair trial and therefore lead to innocent men being convicted of real crimes like rape, as a form of indirect violence. All the woman has to do is cry "rape" and she will find many men to beat up on her victim.

It has set up no concentration camps

The USA has more men in prison than any other country. Millions of them. Feminism has played a part in that. But of course the KKK never had concentration camps either.

Its battles have been for education

For misinformation that is. Feminists spread hatred of men by demonising them and stereotyping men as evil violent rapists. Look at any feminist "education" campaign and you can see an attack on men.

for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges

Institutions that practise sexism and sex segregationism. What kind of sick person turns away the victims of violence just because of how they were born? This goes back to how feminists encourage violence against men.

for the vote

Yeah that's the one decent thing feminists did that they have ate out on ever since. They just can't stop talking about it 100 years later. But it wasn't much of a "battle" for the vote. Most women opposed the right of women to vote. That gradually changed over a period of several decades (and I'm sure the early suffragists had a part in that among other issues like prohibition in the USA and World War one), As soon as most women felt women should get the vote, they were given it -- without any of the obligations that came with that right for a man.

for safety on the streets

For women not men, which is odd because men are in more danger. That goes back to the tendency for feminists to encourage violence against men of course.

Am I a fanatic?

Well I don't know the answer to that, but your friend sounds like one.

sixtysixpixistix · 2013-06-12T13:13:36+00:00

I'd say that the person who ragequits the conversation is the fanatic.

Edit: Maybe ragequit is giving him too much credit. Is Woobiequit a thing?

Hamakua · 2013-06-12T17:43:41+00:00

You are asking yourself the question, so, at the very least, not yet.

Generally fanaticism doesn't work well with introspection.

RobWilard · 2013-06-12T17:56:47+00:00

A fanatic is both extreme and unreasonable. It is entirely reasonable to disagree with feminism. There will be fanatics in every significant movement, MR and feminism included, but you don't have to be one of them. It's up to you.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2013-06-12T15:24:14+00:00

"Feminism has done no wrong because feminists weren't in power when thosebad things I've narrowly defined happened, but somehow feminism has the power to achieve the good things it claims to be for".

Plausible deniability and misallocated credit an responsibility. Textbook hypoagency.

doules107 · 2013-06-12T13:03:38+00:00

perception of reality is in your hands whether you perceive yourself as a fanatic is up to you

rightsbot · 2013-06-12T12:54:17+00:00

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namae_nanka · 2013-06-12T17:06:32+00:00

"Feminism has fought no wars. "

LOOOL hahaha

“The least that men can do is that every man of fighting age should prepare himself to redeem his word to women, and to make ready to do his best, to save the mothers, the wives and daughters of Great Britain from outrage too horrible even to think of.” - Emmeline Pankhurst, the mommy of English Suffragetes The white feather campaign orchestrated by suffragetes was a smashing success.

“Mrs Pankhurst toured the country making recruiting speeches. Her supporters handed the white feather to every young man they encountered wearing civilian dress, and bobbed up at Hyde Park meetings with placards, “Intern Them All.” - Sylvia Pankhurst, \ daughter of Mrs. Pankhurst

If you think you are a fanatic what does that make menists who think that history should be rewritten as women leeching off of men and women should pay up?!

sixtysixpixistix · 2013-06-12T17:09:51+00:00

You've not told us anything you did which could remotely be described as fanatical.

Did you push the conversation, insist on discussing feminism when he had no interest? Did he?

Did you escalate the discussion with guilt-tripping, attacks on his character, or aggressive conduct? You've already said that he accused you of misogyny for your beliefs, and hitting you with a wall of text then de-friending you is an aggressive move, but for all we know it was in response to similar conduct from yourself.

Are you otherwise capable of interacting with people who don't share your beliefs? Feminism is popular, so I have to imagine you have other friends and acquaintances who would disagree with you. If you can get along with them, that too is evidence that you are not a fanatic.

frankie_q · 2013-06-12T19:56:09+00:00

Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties.

Right, and there's a MRM concentration camp on every street corner.

stemgang · 2013-06-12T21:07:32+00:00

You're not the one who close to cut off a friendship over a difference of opinion.

Your ex-friend is the fanatical ideologue.

sixtysixpixistix · 2013-06-12T13:56:04+00:00

Feminism has fought no wars.

Of course they have. The War on Boys and the War on Masculinity.

It has killed no opponents.

It prefers to enslave and imprison rather than kill outright. But where women kill men, feminism excuses and protects them.

It has set up no concentration camps.

It didn't have to. It used VAWA to co-opt the justice system and ensure any man who was targeted by a woman would be sent to prison.

Its battles have been for education...

To favor girls and discriminate against boys.

for the vote...

To be given to women free of charge while those same women shamed men into enlisting to die at war.

for better working conditions...

For women to be protected from sexual harassment while men get laughed at for complaining about it.

for safety on the streets...

For women, while men are arrested and imprisoned for any false accusation by a woman.

for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges...

All at the expense of men who receive no benefit in return.

reforms in the law...

Reforms in the law which have discriminated against men at every turn and stripped us of our civil rights and turned us into second-class citizens.

Feminism has been the single most negative influence on men's lives in the 20th century. It has increased the amount that we pay to benefit women and it has stripped us of many of our rights such as due process and equal opportunity. It would be fanatical to continue to pretend that women somehow have it worse in Western Society in the face of all evidence to the contrary. That wasn't a friend, it was a feminist. Good riddance and nice job standing your ground.

ShitLordXurious · 2013-06-12T14:19:58+00:00

No, your "friend" is the fanatic. He defriended YOU, because he couldn't stand that your opinion was different to his.

literallyschmiteraly · 2013-06-12T14:48:00+00:00

I think feminists are the fanatics. They have all the features of a cult, as far as I can tell.

A_Lurker_Once_Was_I · 2013-06-12T14:17:18+00:00

In my view, Feminism splits into two categories. In one category, the members actually seek equality; and in the other category, the members seem to want to start a war the revolves around totalitarianism, in favor of one of the sexes. About two months ago, I was told that I was getting fat in the workplace by a fellow co-worker who happens to be female. Granted, I was not particularly offended by her comment, but I was peeved at the fact that if I were to report that to my manager, she'd probably just laugh it off. I'm sure that if it were the other way around, I'd be having a nice chat with HR, or be packing my things.

Now, to answer your question, in my case, I'm not a fanatic; it really all comes down to what kind of a person you are. If you like to bash people with ideologies without so much as giving a second thought to those who are sensitive to what the ideologies are targeting, then I would think that you're a fanatic.

On another note, the second category that I have mentioned above could render those people a hate group.

rottingchrist · 2013-06-12T16:39:34+00:00

Not even close.

Remember, you were dealing with someone who favours a movement that harassed and excommunicated someone who helped women, simply because she expressed similar concern for men, and embraced an attempted murderer as one of their heroes. And they've had many other leaders filled with a similar level of hatred for men.

The MRM is a billion light years away from being as fanatical or as full of hatred as feminism.

kragshot · 2013-06-12T20:32:41+00:00

Nope. You just made the mistake of befriending a fanatic.

Sorry that you have to experience sadness for losing somebody that you care about, but you are better off without him as a friend.

Ted8367 · 2013-06-12T13:41:13+00:00

Are we fanatics?

No.

I wonder about your friend, though. What he did was the equivalent of clapping his hands over his ears and shouting "I can't hear you." Not a fanatic, I'd say; but childish.

BTW "some dude" is Dale Spender, an Australian feminist with standard feminist views:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Spender

SteelCrossx · 2013-06-12T14:50:25+00:00

It's worth knowing that, even if his entire quote was true, it doesn't address the truth of feminism. We can conceive of a movement that is non-violent and educates people with the goals of 'safety, social welfare, X crisis centers, refuge support, and law reform' but that is still malicious.

To be clear, I'm about to say something that I don't mean as an equivalency or comparison, just a thought experiment. We could imagine a totalitarian regime that is attempting to reach a state of zero crime by using various security measures (or even indoctrination) to eliminate criminal activity. A society that monitors all action and all people could presumably eliminate rape, discrimination, poverty, and other abuses. That doesn't mean such a society is justified.

TL;DR - The quote you were linked assumes that the ends justify the means, so long as those means are non-violent. Non-violence doesn't mean free if you define violence simply as physical force and it doesn't necessarily mean right, either.

double-happiness · 2013-06-12T23:19:20+00:00

You have to define your terms. Fanaticism involves uncritical zeal, so if you were unable or unwilling to criticise any aspect of the MRM, or the views of individual MRAs, then the answer would be yes.

Unfortunately, there's a tendency to conflate extremism with fanaticism, and they're not the same thing. Maverick views may be appropriate in a climate with a pervasive mythology, but the line is crossed when nothing critical can be said of one's beliefs or associates.

luxury_banana · 2013-06-13T00:54:16+00:00

Seems like your friend was the fanatic who conflates feminism with women.

cynwrig · 2013-06-13T01:12:28+00:00

As long as you are thoughtfully, honestly questioning yourself, then no. You are not a fanatic.

Now your friend on the other hand...

ThePigman · 2013-06-13T01:47:55+00:00

No, you are not a fanatic, you just have shit taste when it comes to friends.

DougDante · 2013-06-13T03:02:07+00:00

So that made me start to wonder. Am I a fanatic?

Fanatics never ask that question.

So, no.

RobWilard · 2013-06-13T14:48:13+00:00

'Hurrah for those who never conquered anybody! Hurrah for those who only ever copied others!' (With apologies to Amie Cesaire)

fishspoons · 2013-06-13T21:53:59+00:00

But you guys do have skulls on your caps... right?

malone_m · 2013-06-12T14:42:15+00:00

I think some interesting and valid issues are defended in this subreddit (genital mutilation, child custody,..), but I see many people are "butthurt" over the littlest bullshit (like facebook memes or really random empty conversations), and seem to try to make a fuss about nothing.

I think that discredits what you guys are supposedly standing for.

So I would say yes, a lot of people here seem to be fanatics. They may have had good intentions when it started, but went completely overboard and became just as unpleasant and bitchy as the average loud mouth feminist.

My 2 cents :) Wonder how many of you will hit the downvote button.

2013-06-12T16:38:39+00:00

This is an idiotic quotation.

Ask that person if they're an atheist or a believer. It doesn't matter what their answer is, because the same quotation can be used for whatever religion or lack thereof.

"Atheism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents."

"Christianity has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents."

"Islam has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents."

"WELL YEA CHRISTIANITY CANT ACTUALLY FIGHT AND REAL CHRISTIANS ARE LOVING AND [foam foam foam at the mouth]!!!"

In the name of feminism, Christianity, Islam, etc., bad things have been done. Men's Rights too.

The quote is idiotic. Tell this person to try again.

Rattatoskk · 2013-06-12T18:18:47+00:00

If a man was shot in WW1 because he was handed a white feather.. Mission accomplished?

Don't get me started on prohibition, it's roots, and how the mafia was handed it's start on a silver platter.

2013-06-12T18:35:09+00:00

For whatever reason people think the MRM is just like Rad Fems or SRS.

Most of them only glance at articles posted or go to Tumblr for their opinions (which is like going to Stormfront when learning about black culture).

Mythandros · 2013-06-12T22:32:25+00:00

No, you are not. We are not fanatics, we are simply normal people that are fed up with how unjust our society is towards us and we gather together so that we can educate people and effect positive change.

JIZZ_ON_EVERYTHING · 2013-06-12T15:18:17+00:00

Some people here are definitely fanatics (sorry but it's true). We're not anywhere near as bad as feminism (overall) but always question yourself because it's easy to get worked up about things that mean a lot to you.

Sorry about you losing your friend :(.

Mytecacc · 2013-06-12T14:46:49+00:00

No, your friend is deluded. He is supporting a political ideology that deliberately covers up abuse when its female on male, child or female and male on male in order to misrepresent abuse as something that almost solely carried out by heterosexual men against women and children.

KRosen333 · 2013-06-12T13:05:24+00:00

Was this a facebook "friend"?

OH HEY I just friended you in reddit. Oh I just defriended you.

... See? There is more to 'friendship' than following someone on facebook. It doesn't have to be IRL - my internet buds were gonna kidnap me once to force me to go to a party with them (hehe... yeah... it's not like that, though it felt like it XD Atleast I know I am loved :3) - but if someone is so dedicated to their view that they wouldn't have an open dialog with their friend, either...

They are so cemented into their belief, or they weren't really your friend.

Do you feel like a fanatic?

sixtysixpixistix · 2013-06-12T13:20:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Are we fanatics?
Author	sixtysixpixistix
Upvotes	41
Comments	123
Date	June 12, 2013 12:53 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1g6xpb/are_we_fanatics/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/are-we-fanatics.1171473 https://theredarchive.com/post/1171473

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