Father's Day PPD | PussyPassDenied

[–]vest_called_a_jerkin 8 years ago* [recovered] (111 children) | Copy Link

No kidding man. I have never in my life seen a meme about how a man should deserve a Happy Mothers Day! I'm a single father with full custody. Personally, I don't really give a shit about fathers day. I'm my daughters father. Im a good father. I take care of her, I provide for her, I protect her, I teach her, I raise her. I don't need some holiday to make me feel special. I know I'm a good father. Parents have a duty to raise their children well.

People tell me all the time that its so good I'm being a dad. They tell me how brave I am for taking care of my own daughter. I'm really not. I'm doing what a parent is supposed to do. I'm not doing some altruistic thing that deserves praise and gifts. I'm not going above and beyond. Literally millions of years of evolution pushing me forward to be a loving parent. I couldn't be any other way if I tried. You're not special because you're a good parent. You're just not a piece of shit.

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I’ve actually witnessed a conversation where a man (probably in his 50-60s) was legitimately curious as to why there was a diaper changing station in the men’s bathroom. There is a generation of people (and not all of them mind you or probably even most but enough) who the idea of a man taking care of young children (let alone a baby) just isn’t something that happens. These people perpetuate this belief.

Hell I’ve had people in my generation (I’m in my 30s) telling my girlfriend that she’s so lucky that I’ll do the dishes or a load of laundry or vacuum the floor. And it’s like “no I live here I make part of the mess I clean it up, I’m not doing her any favors, she works full time too, we split the chores at home”.

I’ve never been one to buy into toxic masculinity but hell if you’re shaming a man (or shaming his s/o which telling a girl she’s lucky a man would do ‘her work’ is) you are probably a pretty toxic person.

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[–]vest_called_a_jerkin 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

No not at all. My main goal with her is to raise her to be a well-adjusted, strong, independent woman with a fiery will and the ability to be great at whatever she chooses to do with her life. Whatever she wants to do (obviously within reason) as long as she puts her heart and sole in it then I'll be proud and supportive. I want her growing up knowing that she holds the keys to her own success. If she wants to go into the arts then I'll be proud of her. If she wants to go into STEM then I'll be super proud of her, but the most important thing is she do what makes her happy and allows her the opportunity to live her best life possible.

I don't want her to grow up to be a neckbeard (or should I say legbeard?). I want her to be smart (which she is!). I want her to respect herself and be confident in her abilities. As long as she isn't committing crimes and she doesn't turn into a 3rd wave feminists/HAES activist then I'll be proud of her. And regardless of anything she becomes, I'll still love her and I'll never stop trying to help her be happy.

I know (hope) she'll grow up and leave the nest and go out into the world. I know she'll have sex and work and party. I just hope she respects herself enough to be smart about it and to not do things that she doesn't want to do.

I don't know if I'm wording it correctly. Its early and I'm only halfway through my first cup of coffee. But yeah, I basically want her to be her own person who has the will, intelligence, self-respect, and fiery passion to go out and make something of herself and fuck the people that try to bring her down.

I don't expect her to take care of me in my old age, but I would hope that I raise her well enough that she would look back and want to take care of me when I can't do it anymore. I don't necessarily mean she literally acts as my nurse, but I don't want to go to a nursing home. I plan to take care of my mother when she gets older. I'm not putting her in a home. She will live with me and I'll provide for her the way she has for me.

I just hope that when the time comes and I'm old and can't care for myself anymore, my daughter will look at me and say the same thing I think about my mom. "You've taken care of me my whole life. You've been a good parent. You've provided for me and supported me and loved me and now its my turn to do the same for you."

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My mom did this to me under the guise of being the only parent that loved me. My whole life (I was 8 when they divorced) she told me what a bastard my dad was, all the horrible things he did to her and how she would always be the one to be there for me, I just assumed she was right because I was a child and my father never fought back or said anything negative about my mom.

It wasn’t until about four years ago, when a failed relationship forced me to temporarily live with my father that I learned a very different side of that story. I hadn’t spent much time with my dad in almost 25 years, we spent many nights in the year I lived with him just talking. I hate my mother for what she did and I hate myself for not seeing it sooner. As a child I took my dad’s silence for an admission of guilt but as 31 year old sitting there speaking with him I couldn’t imagine how hard it must have been to stay silent. To choose to not bad mouth his ex wife to his children, even in his own defense.

I’m happy to say that at 34 I finally have a good relationship with my father, but I’ll never forgive my mom for robbing me of all of those years I could have had with him, just so that she could feel like she got to him.

[–]frugal_masturbater 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jrmelancon 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

My heart goes out to you man. No father should have to go through this crap with their kid. Ever.

In a perfect world I’d tell you to defend yourself. To tell your kid the truth about what their mother is doing and that that act alone would be enough put the kid back down the right path, but this isn’t a perfect world sadly and people that operate on spite and malice (like my mother) only double down when challenged. The last thing you want is to have your kid caught in the middle of a war of attrition between you and your ex...then he/she is the only loser.

I don’t have children so I can’t imagine how terribly difficult it must be for guys like you and my dad but if I had to give any advice it would be to just love your kid. Not just love in your words but in your actions. Hell, mostly in your actions because those are going to be the things that your kid remembers. Mom can say all the horrible things that she wants but if your actions prove otherwise then one day that kid is going to see it for what it is.

It may not be today. May not be 5 years from now...it may be when they’re 30...but I have faith that one day it’ll happen. Just keep being the best dad you can be.

Much love brother, don’t give up hope!

[–]frugal_masturbater 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]frugal_masturbater 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I already replied to you earlier but that was a quick gesture to make sure you know your comment was appreciated.

The topic goes so deep and gets so dark, I oftentimes feel like I need to start a movement. And maybe I will.

In a nutshell, and I am not trying to speak for you or your father, but fathers who are good dads are easy for mothers to shut down. The means are many, and they are terrifying. It is very easy to get Child Protective Services to your house and interview the kids, for instance. You'd think that's a good service to exist. I agree. And in my case, allegations were eventually dismissed. But they were a start to push my children into a certain direction. And that direction was supported by family court, I had miserable visitation conditions through no fault but allegations that the family court judge thought may have bearing. Horrible on many levels.

It eventually led to exhaustion on the children's front, it's just easier for them to believe what they're told than to resist the mother. So I lost them in every sense. They are gone as if they were dead.

I'll give you an example from my world. Before the divorce was even final, I tried my best to keep the kids isolated from it. My then 10 year old had her birthday. I paid for a little party with 15 or so kids at a local bouncy castle place and bought her a bicycle. In court, the ex said this was grooming. A fucking party and a huffy from Walmart was "grooming". The judge didn't agree, but the outcome was a bad visitation agreement. Public places only. It removed my kids from me in a very meaningful way. They could not be in my car. Not because I did anything, but because the court "wanted to be sure of their safety based on allegations."

Allegations of alcoholism.

I fought it all and won in terms of truth. Nothing stuck to me. But family court was "concerned". By and by it killed my way to interact with my children the way any father does.

Fast forward 5 years. I am now so PTSD about all of it that I would not WANT my kids touching me because I would be fuckign afraid someone may say something and I'm going to jail.

That's right, you can shock people into that sort of fucking unrealistic and wrong thought pattern. That's because you learn as a father, you have no fucking person on your side. I remember being interviewed by detectives asking me what porn I like and why. That perhaps I would also really enjoy middle schoolers. That it's not that far off, "you know?"

I went through fucking hell and back and still lost my children, totally gone at this time. Oh I love them, but after many years of brainwashing, and me not having any input at all, how far can I actually trust them? If the worst of the worst allegations have been made, you become VERY paranoid about seeing them again in a private setting. It's fucking crazy and needs to stop.

Yikes, that got long. You wrote so caringly, I wanted to respond in kind.

[–]cormamin101 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]kcox1980 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My divorce was the result of my ex wife having a 3 month long affair. She had no job, no education, a DUI on her record, got tricked into giving my kids social security numbers to a scam artist, her house failed a DHR inspection, and while our divorce trial was playing out she was dating a guy who had hit my son and called him "pathetic" to his face when he started crying.

I was gainfully employed with an Associate's Degree in a high demand field, had my own place which passed the DHR inspection, had not ever even been accused of adultery or any other immoral/illegal activities, both of my sons were willing to testify that they wanted to stay with me, and I had pressed charges against her boyfriend because he assaulted me when I demanded that he not be allowed around my kids anymore after he hit my son.

I'll give you one guess who has custody of my kids right now. Yeah, the system is truly fucked.

[–]_____________0______5 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]emsterrr 319 points320 points321 points 8 years ago* (50 children) | Copy Link

Been meaning to comment as a long time female lurker, what better thread and time to do so! Between this subreddit and menslib I am surprised at how much I didn’t realize happens in male worlds like this. I’m a woman so I’m unsurprisingly focused on women’s issues. Seeing these kinds of threads puts it into perspective for me to not accidentally be a fuckass when I’m speaking to women’s rights. Now I push for other people to see this kind of stuff too and it’s so frustrating because some just don’t see an issue.. we should be working toward human rights that are inclusive of not ignoring legitimate issues for modern males. Fuck this woman. And fuck any woman that reduces the role of single fatherhood or any other men’s rights issue. Edit: Really glad about all the positivity from my comment, I was nervous to post being a little out of my element here. I learn so much from subs like this though! :)

[–]chanticleerz 68 points69 points70 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

My buddy recently had a baby girl with a 30 year old woman. This will be with woman's 4th child with 3 different men. He had no intention of having a baby with her, she lied about her birth control status.

At any rate he fell in love with the baby girl and despite him being somewhat of an ass clown really tries to make it work. For example this woman makes him pay child support even though he lives with them and pays for everything he can already.

2 weeks ago she decided she was going to head to far northern California from Colorado in her busted ass vehicle to visit her mom or something. She had negative money for this trip, but still loaded up all 4 of the young kids (one toddler) and took off despite my buddy's protests. He had to stay and work and wouldn't be able to watch the baby on his own.

She was supposed to be gone for a week and a half, arriving home last Thursday. She kept calling him and delaying her return by a day, giving bogus reasons, asking for money, etc. Finally yesterday my buddy had enough and dressed her down, said something weird was going on, threatened to call the police as he was very worried about his daughter. She stopped answering his phone calls at this point.

She eventually showed up late in the evening, my friend had passed out on the couch. She marches in the door and starts screaming at him for telling her about her business or whatever. He shakes that off, asks to see his daughter. She says no. He says please, it's fathers day, I haven't seen her in 2 weeks, let me see her. She again says no and starts bitching at him again. He loses his head and punches a hole through a door. She starts screaming about how she will call the police (which she has precedent to do in the event of a hole in the door) if he doesn't leave the house that instant.

He bites his tongue and walks outside to cool off. After awhile he tries to go get his keys, she has locked the door. She won't answer the phone. And it was raining pretty hard last night. So he can't even get into his van to get out of the rain. It was at this point he called me pretty choked up to tell me what had happened. I offered to pick him up and he said he was going to camp out on that porch till he got to see his daughter.

Her side of the story will simply be "so and so punched a hole through the door, what an asshole!". And yes, he did lose his cool and that was unacceptable, but there's always more to it than that.

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[–]emsterrr 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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The problem is that the word feminism has been coopted by the extremists and made to be a "women first" ideology. It stems from the fact that anyone can claim the title of feminist. There is no criteria as to what the beliefs of feminism are and so anyone can claim feminism and their beliefs are a part of it. Now, doing exactly what you're doing right now (claiming "real feminism" doesn't do this or believe that) is not a help to the situation. You can't just claim that those aren't "real" feminists because there is no criteria which will preclude anyone from being a feminist. Anyone who claims to be a feminist is a real feminist. I realize the entire point is to say that feminism SHOULD be what you're saying, but the reality is that anybody who wants actual equal rights for men and women need a new term and there needs to be some central belief that states what is and is not part of that ideology.

[–]avacado_of_the_devil 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

We have egalitarianism. When I explain that i believe that everyone should have the same opportunities and be treated equally regardless of gender, race, or any other characteristic they had no control over to people they usually say "oh so you're a feminist." To which i respond, "If that is how you define feminism, then sure. But i identify as egalitarian because there's a bias implied by the language that i dislike and i want to distance myself from the extremists who i disagree with who have co-opted the movement."

It started as a very necessary movement for women's rights, still is important, but we are capable of focusing on men's and women's issues simultaneously, and I think an important part of recognizing this stepping away from the "men against women" mentality. Some of women's problems are caused by problems that are facing men and vice versa. Advocating for men's rights isn't inherently anti-women, but there are definitely men's rights advocates who are anti-women. The movement needs to decide whether these are fringe voices they must clearly distance themselves from or if they speak for the majority because outsiders will probably not know the difference, doubly so there's benefit to discrediting those with legitimate concerns by conflating them with the extremists. same for feminism or any other movement.

You can't just claim that those aren't "real" feminists because there is no criteria which will preclude anyone from being a feminist. Anyone who claims to be a feminist is a real feminist.

I can't say that I agree. I can claim to be a football player or a vegan but that doesn't make me one. You can't claim to be an anarcho-capitalist and want government regulation. The Democratic People's Republic of North Korea isn't a democracy. You can't claim to be a christian and worship satan. You can, however, make christians or football players look bad to people who don't know much about football or religion. There are a core set of beliefs and actions you have to subscribe to or practice and for current wave feminism that's ostensibly advocating for women's rights. We rename offshoots of ideologies all the time because they differ from the core philosophy enough so as to be different from the original.

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They aren't interested in universal human rights; they're interested in being a dick to women.

[Citation needed]

You are exacerbating the problem by applying the actions of a subset of individuals associated with a group to the group as a whole, then reversing that to apply your projected bias onto all individuals within that group.

That is just as ridiculous as saying all Mexicans are drug dealing rapist murderers simply because there happen to be Mexicans who do those things.

The fact that you earnestly hold the opinion that MRAs only care about “being a dick to women” serves to highlight your ignorance of the issues as well as your unwillingness to consider opposing viewpoints. It’s pretty obvious that you are the one who isn’t interested in having an honest conversation, which really just makes you sound like the dick here.

If you were truly curious and open minded you could easily make legitimate specific arguments against particular individuals/issues, but you’re not so instead you opt for baseless, generalized ad hominem attacks against a very diverse group of people who happen to have similar genitalia.

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It isn't about her directly. So it doesn't really matter if it is about her, or her mother, or her friends or any of that. None of those people are fathers. Women deserve all the praise in the world for raising a child into a well adjusted adult (especially if they had to do it alone) but not on fathers day.

The being a father and being a mother are 2 completely different roles. That is why the data is quite clear that a child who is raised by both a father and a mother is on average more successful as an adult as compared to one that is raised by 1 parent or 2 parents of the same sex.

basically, implying that a women can be a father is devalues all the things that men bring to the table when raising a kid and to imply that men can be a mother devalues all the things that women bring to the table when raising a kid.

Is it the end of the world? No. But this is a day for men, let them have it.

[–]dfassna1 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's a good response and I appreciate it. We just clearly differ on our opinions. I come at it from the perspective that the whole idea of fathers and mothers having separate roles in raising a child is arbitrary, it's based on outdated social norms from a time when mothers were stay-at-home moms and fathers were the breadwinners and disciplinarians. Now in most families everyone has to work full time so there's no reason a father and mother can't be equals and the roles they play could be interchangeable. I do recognize, though, that in a vacuum you would probably still see most mothers fill traditional mother roles and most fathers filling their traditional roles. But if you recognize that mothers and fathers play different roles, then I think you don't have to be a man to play the role of a father and a lot of single mothers out there do make an effort to fill the role of father as well. There's no rule that estrogen prevents a woman from helping her kid with a science fair project, playing catch in the backyard, mowing the lawn, grilling out, doing home improvement work, teaching her son about girls or how to shave, etc. And I'm not being a hypocrite, I think the exact same is true of men. Single fathers who try to fill the role of a mother deserve praise for doing it on Mother's Day too.

[–]Frekkes 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

You are right, we may not fully agree, but that is quite alright.

Single fathers who try to fill the role of a mother

Though I do not think you meant it in this way, but this is pretty much my point. A single father will try to fill the role as a mother but he can't, just like a single mother will try to fill the role of a father but she can't.

And the role of a mother vs a father isn't that the father works and the mother takes care of them. From the studies I have seen they account for not necessarily having the father being the bread winner. This is why there is still a discrepancy with 2 same sex families. It is about the fact that we are a sexually dimorphic species. So the life experiences of growing up as a man and the life experiences of growing up as a women are different and those understanding get taught to their children. They are also the first role models for each gender growing up.

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Ok, here is where I disagree.

We agree that the two people having sex is a joint decision. But you admit right there that what follows is NOT a joint decision yet somehow both people are equally responsible for the outcome.

Obviously if one person has more say both people are NOT equally responsible.

But what if we give the man the ability to sign away rights and responsibilities early on? The woman can still CHOOSE to keep the child or not. No one will force a woman to carry a child she cannot afford on her own (which would be a reason to force the other party to help support it) or abort one she wants. She just has to make the choice knowing she can't force someone else to go along with her decision.

End result in this scenario: Women have bodily autonomy. No woman is forced to have an abortion. No woman is forced to carry a child she can't afford on her own. Because no woman is forced to carry a child she can't afford to care for there is no need to force other people to help care for the child. Thus men also have bodily autonomy.

What is the negative here? Both people are involved in baby making, both people get a choice after conception if they want to deal with a kid. no one is forced to do anything.

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I am not advocating that men be able to control women's bodies.

I am advocating that our legal system be revamped to make it more fair for both sexes.

Within our legal code is the mandate that it treat everyone fairly and that no bias be given to anybody due to race, religion, gender, etc.

And yet in family court there is a pretty severe pro-female slant to it. This applies whether we're talking about domestic violence or child custody.

For the domestic violence aspect, a lot of places follow something called the "Duluth Model" where it is assumed that domestic violence stems from patriarchy and male domination. So any "correction" involves educating the male. So let me give you a real-world situation that I was involved in: My ex wanted me to clean the floor at 11 pm, I didn't feel like it at that time, and she bashed a glass over my face. The police come, haul us to jail, and I'm instructed to attend a class where I have to hear that the violence stemmed from my desire to control her.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duluth_model

Also, as far as child custody goes the ball is also in their court.

As I said in an earlier post, the same woman cheated on me and decided she wants to raise the child alone. So she claims that I'm abusing her (no evidence needed) and she gets me kicked out of my own house. Shortly after there's a child custody battle which she easily wins since she already has primary custody (due to the PFA order). It's a pretty tried-and-true tactic.

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If I have a vasectomy and use a condom my risks for pregnancy reduce to as close to 0 as possible. How the fuck is it your responsibility if she CHOOSES to have the kid and not give it up for adoption?

"Close to zero" is still not zero. You know that and should be willing to accept that, out of billions of people on the planet, SOME people are going to lose that particular lottery. If it turns out to be you, you have to be willing to accept the consequences.

But you're advocating for practically putting a man in jail (child support), if he doesnt pay he goes to real jail.

No I'm not. The nuances of child support laws are beyond the scope of this discussion. I'm saying you have some responsibility, we are not discussing how that responsibility should be enforced, or if it's enforced unfairly in certain cases or geographic regions.

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I'm not an incel lol, but you can't fucking tell me that someone sabotaging a condom in hopes of getting pregnant without the other party's consent is a legit thing to do. It's nothing but manipulative and completely scummy. I honest to god can't see how you can view something like that as a choice.

E: cause i figured out how to better state my thoughts. If you wear a condom, it's for the purpose of safe sex without reasonable risk of pregnancy and STD's. If the woman pokes a hole in the condom, it isn't something you could foresee and is ONLY done to go directly against what you wanted, behind your back. I fully believe that you shouldn't be responsible for an unwanted child if you were tricked into it like the method above. Same shit as when a woman digs through the trash to find the used condom to try and get pregnant. In the american court system, you're just screwed if it happens to you. That's what I have an issue with.

I don't have an issue with accountability when both parties are aware of lack of proper birth control. If you just say "fuck it" and risk it, that's on you and you should be accountable for your actions. But it's downright wrong otherwise. I might be biased because this situation happened with my older brother pretty much word for word, but I stand by my statement.

[–]hooligan99 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]_____________0______2 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

I do not think you are applying valid reasoning to this situation.

In my case, I was with a woman for 18 years and we lived together. We were supposedly in a committed relationship. She gets pregnant and then decides to dump me when she's 5 months pregnant. It turns out that she had been carrying on an affair with her friend's husband for more than a decade.

I spent over $20,000 trying to get equal custody of my son but I was denied. Now I have to pay $1700 a month to her, and why? What did I do wrong?

Are you going to tell me that "I had a choice?" That I "should have known" she was cheating on my before I had sex with her?

Where are the laws that protect men in these situations? Why do a man's options completely vanish once a woman gets pregnant?

In fact, the way our laws are, she can get pregnant, dump you, you could find out that your baby isn't even yours and you STILL have to continue paying child support on it. How does this make any sense at all?

[–]WaywardTraveller 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]_____________0______2 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

You will never have the right to force a woman to abort, and should not.

I'm pro-choice so that's not an issue.

And unfortunately, the only way you could have completely avoided the situation (IE: Specifically, her getting pregnant) is indeed to not have had sex with this woman.

How was I supposed to know that 18 years ago? It's not like I knocked up a woman on a one-night stand, I was with her since 1998 and we owned a house together. Was I supposed to know that she'd screw me over in the distant future?

She was someone who never wanted kids so it wasn't ever an issue. We were both pro-choice so it also wasn't an issue. And she would be the first person to tell you that the whole "biological clock" thing is nonsense because she doesn't want kids so that's never going to happen.

Then she got into her early 40s and that clock went off like a timebomb. Holy shit is that real. She didn't even tell me about her feelings. She simply went to the fertility doctor, went on fertility medication without telling me and got pregnant and took off.

My entire point is that the system itself needs to be fair. The justice system has a responsibility to be fair- that is stated within its mission. A system that has loopholes allowing exploitation will only lead to injustice.

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[–]hooligan99 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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I have a real problem with insanity being peddled with a straight face. While I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I do not believe that makes everyone's opinion valid or worth taking seriously.

Some things should not be treated rationally as that leads to people thinking the irrational thing you are discussing as if it is rational must actually be rational.

The idea that there should be any sort of guarantee for a male to be completely free and clear of anything to do with the result of having sex after they have already made the choice to have sex is not rational. This clearly ticks me off, I will admit.

The idea that this has anything whatsoever to do with abortion is beyond irrational and clearly really makes me mad.

Trying to twist legal dependency issues into the midst of either/both of these is just twisting knives in the wounds of bad logic and clearly makes me pretty fucking livid.

It's my own fault, I shouldn't bother. And I usually don't if it's just one BS post. But when it's a whole set of threads of people using this twisted logic...I have a hard time just sitting back and ignoring it.

[–]hooligan99 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You don’t have to ignore it. Just stay calm when you address it and you will be seen as the rational one, and your argument will actually be heard.

Also, I’m with you for the most part, but there is an argument that I haven’t seen addressed yet. If two people have sex while using protection but accidentally get pregnant, at this point the woman has an out but the man does not. That is the basis of their argument. Yes the man made the choice to have sex despite the risk, but so did the woman. They are equally responsible for their situation, but only one of them still has the power to choose if they want to have a kid. It’s an inherent imbalance, since the woman is the one physically carrying the child, and these guys think there should also be an out for the man like there is for the woman. I’m not demonizing women here or blaming them for a deadbeat dad, but you have to admit women have the power in this situation.

[–]WaywardTraveller 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m not demonizing women here or blaming them for a deadbeat dad, but you have to admit women have the power in this situation.

Absolutely, no question here. This is the point where I stated that life isn't fair and people need to accept that and get over it. It's not like this is news for anyone, and short of deciding that a woman should not have sole domain over her own body, this cannot change.

How society and our legal system deal with these situations is highly open for debate. But that's not a discussion I am willing to have when it's being pushed from a disingenuous position. Someone that will not even accept the basic fact that the choice is not at the point of choosing contraception, but rather at choosing the act itself, then throwing pro-life in the mix as if it proves everything to follow, is either purposefully following an agenda, or is not intelligent enough to be having the conversation in the first place.

This is a bigger problem in society in general right now. We've let ourselves be put in a position where we have to debate the irrational as if it is rational. As has been said in the past, if you argue with stupid people, all you can do is make yourself look stupid. (I know, ironic and I realise I don't always follow this so well).

By example, if society laughed at the idea of taking someone like Trump seriously, we wouldn't be in the political mess we are in. We should have said: "Trump, you're an idiot and we will not give you the time of day until you stop being an idiot". Instead, we now try to actively debate and argue things that are just completely asinine...making society dumber every step of the way.

A wild tangent I know, but it relates to how this whole thing set me off in the first place. Telling men to keep their dick in their pants if they don't want a child is NOT the same as telling a woman they surrender their rights over their own body if they dare to choose to have sex. This is such a dangerous idea that I was completely dumbfounded and furious to run across it in here as if it were rational, especially seeing it was not coming from one person trolling but from a very large number of people.

No I haven't dealt with it well. I admittedly do not deal well with things that are completely irrational. I should just stay away, but it saddens me to think these ideas could go on uncontested.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

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I feel it's important to clarify- I'm pro-choice. I don't believe a woman should be forced into abortion. But, like you said, " I also don't think it's fair for a woman to say "I'm having this kid and you're going to pay for it." "

I've been around manipulative women that tried to lock down people close to me using pregnancy and child. The woman poked holes in a condom and got pregnant against what my brother wanted. If he had wanted a kid, he wouldn't have used protection. He was tricked and outright manipulated into a situation that he didn't deserve to be in. The woman didn't even want a kid. She wanted him to stay with her despite their issues.

He stayed with her and she had a miscarriage midway through the pregnancy. They had gotten married directly after she found out she was pregnant, and stayed together for several years. She ended up snapping and trying to kill him after an unsuccessful marriage counciling session he had brought her to lol.

My whole point to that- what quality of life would that kid have had if it was raised by a mother that didn't want it and a father that didn't either. The kid would have been a bargaining chip in a completely fucked relationship.

It's just one of multiple situations that could be avoided with the clause that started this heated discussion. Again, I fully believe you should accept responsibility if you don't use a contraceptive, but jesus, it's not a fucking black and white issue. There are solutions that people refuse to look at because it's "immoral and you should take responsibility for the risks you took".

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You mean men don’t have a choice when they elect to stick their penis into women? Unless you have been sexually assaulted you had a fucking choice.

This is not valid reasoning.

In a fair society you do not give a person 1 chance at something while giving another person multiple chances. That is not fair.

Having sex is a mutual act. It makes no logical sense to allow one person to retain all the power after that fact.

Imagine if you entered an agreement with me that gave me a blank check from that point forward. Would you say "Stop complaining, you had a CHOICE!" Of course not. You would see that it makes no sense to allow someone to sign their rights away from that point forward. A person needs to have rights all through the process.

Child support is one of those areas that has not progressed since the 1940s. You could be in a committed relationship with your wife, and if you have a baby that you later find out isn't related to you then you're screwed. Once you sign that form at the hospital you're on the hook, even if you had no idea that she was cheating on you. It is now your responsibility to pay for someone else's child for the next 18 years.

The woman has no culpability at that point. She is in no danger of being prosecuted for intentionally misleading you into signing that sheet or pretending that you're the father. There's no incentive for a woman NOT to name the wealthier guy as the father.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]_____________0______ 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But I suspect you know all this, you just want to wash your hands away from all responsibility or repercussions around this complex topic because of selfishness. It’s easy to just blame her. After she is pregnant SHE is the problem, not you - right?

You're trying to set up a straw man here. I never said that. You are completely barking up the wrong tree.

My situation is much different than that. I was with her for 18 years, owned a house together, and everything seemed normal in the beginning of the pregnancy. But once she was 5 months pregnant she told me that she wants to raise the child alone.

I stuck around and continued to live with her after the baby was born. I hoped that she would come back around so we could be a family. But nope, she made it clear that she wanted me out. So she got me kicked out of my own house.

Then I sued in court to get equal access to my son and spent $20,000 doing so. But nope, I lost.

Later I found out that she had been carrying on an affair with her friend's husband for more than a decade, a full 12 years before she ever got pregnant.

So again, please tell me how I was telling her to get an abortion or how I tried to get out of my responsibilities. I would really like to hear your opinion on this.

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