Im not usually a fan of r/menslib but i can get behind this

[–]Couldawg 167 points168 points169 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

When I first read this, I assumed OOP was mischaracterizing the law. Then I read the law:

§ 14-33. Misdemeanor assaults, batteries, and affrays, simple and aggravated; punishments.

(c) Unless the conduct is covered under some other provision of law providing greater punishment, any person who commits any assault, assault and battery, or affray is guilty of a Class A1 misdemeanor if, in the course of the assault, assault and battery, or affray, he or she:

...

(2) Assaults a female, he being a male person at least 18 years of age;

Under (a), assault is a Class 2 misdemeanor, deserving of 1-30 days of community punishment (with no priors), no incarceration.

Under (c), assault is a Class A1 misdemeanor, allowing a judge to incarcerate the defendant for up to 60 days, even in the absence of priors.

Other Class A1 misdemeanors include:

14-34: Pointing a gun at another

14-202(c): "Peeping Tom" recordings

14-205.2: Patronizing a prostitute (prostitution is Class 1)

14-277.3A: Stalking

14-318.2: Reckless child abuse (intentional child abuse is a felony)

[–]Apathetic_Zealot 109 points110 points111 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]UnnamedNamesake 36 points37 points38 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Epic_Mind_Blow 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]HotDealsInTexas 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apathetic_Zealot 30 points31 points32 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Qualanqui -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Drezzzire 220 points221 points222 points 8 years ago (54 children) | Copy Link

[–]UnnamedNamesake 132 points133 points134 points 8 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 101 points102 points103 points 8 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

[–]Akitten 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 47 points48 points49 points 8 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link

Not really the point.

I could punch someone until they die. It might take me a while, but eventually I'd get there. You could too. I'm just a regular Joe, this is not some ability I have. Tyson could surely do it faster than me, but I doubt the dead volunteer would notice the difference.

Similarly, a pink .22 ~~piston~~ pistol pulled from grandma's purse could eventually kill someone. You might have to reload a few times, but your unhappy volunteer would eventually be dead. It's legally the same as a 44 magnum, the most powerful hand gun in the world, and it could blow your head clean off. Your volunteer might not feel lucky, punk, but legally it's the same.

So are my fists deadly weapons? While it required extreme circumstances to get there, I'd have to say yes. Anything you can kill someone with would seem to meet the definition. When the Joker slammed that guy's head down onto a pencil, that pencil became a deadly weapon. if you stand on grandma's breathing tube in the hospital, your shoe became a deadly weapon.

Ultimately it's just a bunch of noise. If you kill someone, the means you used to do so are just details.

[–]Egalai 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Generic-username427 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Egalai 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Generic-username427 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnnaUndefind 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]scyth3s 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Apocalyptic_Squirrel 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Apocalyptic_Squirrel 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CylonGlitch 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Generic-username427 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]epelle9 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JestyerAverageJoe -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]JestyerAverageJoe 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]JestyerAverageJoe 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]epelle9 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]brokedown 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]VizioCat 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For the most part, this is incorrect. I read a news report of dubious veracity when I was in school about such a thing in Texas.

In most States, the fact that the assaulter was a trained fighter would be an aggravating factor on a charge of simple assault. Aggravating factors are used under structured sentencing that determines how much active time/community service/probation/etc the judge may sentence you to, more aggravating factors usually means a stiffer sentence.

A trained fighter who assaults someone might very well severely injure the victim, which means that the correct charge should be assault inflicting serious bodily injury. Such an assault is a felony in the jurisdictions I live in, which can carry decades of prison time. There would be pretty much no situation in which a trained fighter would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon using only his/her fists, but it's something that a prosecutor would point to in a simple assault/assault inflicting srs injury charge in order to make the defendant's actions appear all the more heinous (e.g. when War Machine nearly murdered his porn star gf).

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OldSchoolNewRules 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EgoandDesire 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JackBond1234 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ScrewWomyn 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rooolng 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JackBond1234 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spoopsnloops 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheWardylan 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]68696c6c 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Quintrell 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TopHatJohn 281 points282 points283 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 188 points189 points190 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 81 points82 points83 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ClementineCarson 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ARedthorn[🍰] 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TSwizzlesNipples 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

lol Ironic that you should say that. Let me explain what a public defender really does:

A public defender is an attorney assigned to an indigent defendant. In every jurisdiction I'm aware of, that attorney stays with the defendant throughout their case, up to and including appeals. It's possible a new attorney could be appointed during the appeal process if a more qualified attorney is necessary or the first attorney is no longer available, but usually a defendant will take the same attorney as far up the ladder as possible.

The attorney will continue to correspond with the defendant even after their case has been ruled upon, whether they are in prison or on probation, or even after completing probation to assist with post-release and post-paper issues such as sealing and expunging records, or requesting early termination or suspension of probation, as long as the defendant is still unable to afford counsel.

In the appeals process, the defendant is often in jail or prison, and their public defender will continue to go to court on their behalf for as long as the appeals process takes. It can take several years. Defendants who have been with the system for years are often shuffled around to different attorneys in the office, as old attorneys move on to other things and new attorneys are hired.

Every defendant has the right to an attorney in pre-trial, during trial, during sentencing, and post-trial if the defendant is still engaged with the criminal justice system, such as in probation, appeals, and other hearings.

See Powell v. Alabama 287 U.S. 45 (1932), Gideon v Wainwright, Alabama v. Shelton 535 U.S. 654 (2002), Miranda rights, right to due process.

You seem to be under the impression that you don't have the right to an attorney in every step of the process. If you've been denied an attorney then you should speak to a judge about this and request a hearing on the matter. Unfortunately, most people are not fully aware of their rights and are easily abused by the system. You need to be aware of your rights so you can demand them when the system tries to deny you.

The only exception I'm aware of is the unfortunate wage gap that exists between indigent defendants and well-off defendants. A judge sometimes rules that a defendant is not poor enough to be appointed a public defender, but hiring an attorney for the long haul will likely make that defendant indigent (i.e. utterly penniless). I'd like to see that situation changed, but as far as appeals go that's a less common situation. People who've been convicted of a felony often become indigent after conviction if they weren't before trial started.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TopHatJohn 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EasternChildhood 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]morajic 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TopHatJohn 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pyromed[S] 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points33 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pyromed[S] 35 points36 points37 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pyromed[S] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

By saying it's hard just puts people off imo.

I'm sorry you feel that way? I'm not your bright-eyed, bushy tailed, happy-go-lucky, fountain of positivity activist type. I'm not the guy who cheers for team spirit and shouts slogans about how we can change the world if we just set our minds to it. I realize that motivates some people, but it's a load of bullshit to my mind, so I don't engage in it. I prefer a much more rational, emotionally tempered, even approach. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that the road ahead is long, so long as you're still making steps forward.

In fact, I've met plenty of people who care about various causes and gotten depressed, because they have unrealistic expectations about how successful their efforts at creating change are going to be, and get discouraged as a result of repeated failures. So, I think keeping in mind the extent to which the deck is still stacked against us is highly important to sustaining one's drive and energy.

Right now, I think the emphasis in activism still needs to be on raising awareness. We aren't at the stage where there's enough general acknowledgement and support in society about men's issues for us to have the leverage to start pressing for legal changes. To that end, I think one of the best things any single MRA can do is just keep talking about this stuff to people they know (always a balancing act, of course) and going to any events that happen to be organized. For those willing to go further, organizing events and trying to get academics interested in the issues is important, because we really do need research being done to provide data to justify the need for change. There's a dearth of research on men's issues in many areas, and we should be trying to encourage researchers to fill them. Once the research is there, there will be more incentive to change the narratives in classrooms, because there will be something to actually teach.

I could go on, but the point is that I think it's important to recognize what stage our movement is at and accurately pace ourselves to society's readiness to change. Right now, it's not very ready, so our work needs to be focused on increasing attention to the issues. There's already some news coverage about certain things, so we can use that to further promote attention; push where there's already some momentum. For example, the backlash against #metoo needs to be capitalized on, and we can do that by noting how ready society is to blame men when they're accused, and pushing researchers to take a fresh look at the prevalence of false accusations and the whole spectrum of how accusations work in the first place. Another is domestic violence against men; more men are starting to speak up, so we need to encourage that with ads, billboards, commercials, etc. Pressure DV clinics and hotlines to be more accepting of male victims, that sort of thing.

[–]workerdaemon 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Adanu0 93 points94 points95 points 8 years ago (68 children) | Copy Link

[–]_Treason_Then_ 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Haight_Is_Love 38 points39 points40 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]lethrowaway4me 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Andrew_Squared 24 points25 points26 points 8 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]dx8734 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I used to read posts there occasionally when it was first created, but some of the mods there were assholes. I remember one post that linked to an article that said that male students in elementary school were less likely than the female students to receive help from their teachers. It was something like 33% of black males 25% of white and hispanic males felt ignored by their teachers. One of the mods said that they need to figure out why teachers don't want to help the black students as much as the rest, and someone replied back that we should focus on why all males students are receiving less help, not just a single subset of male students. The mod went on a rant about how it's so typical for white people to try and draw the focus away from helping black people, and that the black students need the help more than the other students.

[–]originalSpacePirate 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]originalSpacePirate 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Haisha4sale 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

of the mods said that they need to figure out why teachers don't want to help the black students as much as the rest, and someone replied back that we should focus on why all males students are receiving less help, not just a single subset of male students. The mod went on a rant about how it's so typical for white people to try and draw the focus away from helping black people, and that the black students need the help more than the other students.

I just unsubbed this morning from that sub. Growing up in the 90s I always hated how the older generation of men wanted to tell us how to be men. I love my generation. Sure, sometimes there is some asshole who will make a snide remark if you do something seemingly feminine but we are pretty live and let live, at least where I am from. But then now you have the men who id with the menslib who once more want to tell us how to be men and I'm not down with that.

[–]Pillowed321 33 points34 points35 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 32 points33 points34 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Cryhavok101 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The subreddit was started to lie about MRAs, and they recruited from anti-male subs like AMR and SRS. I went there early on and the mods were telling people that the men's rights movement began as an anti-feminist backlash by men who wanted their male privilege back. That's false and we can back that up with sources from the 70s showing how the MRM actually began and who early MRAs were; menslib never has any sources for their claims. MensLib is also based on the pro-feminist men's movement, which the mods there claim has a history of working with feminism to help men. That's another lie, and the mods shut up anytime you ask them for specific examples of the pro-feminist men's movement helping men. The pro-feminist men's movement has been terrible for men and promotes views like men can't be victims of DV. Yet that's the type of feminism that menslib is trying to say has always helped men, and menslib is calling us misogynists for resisting that type of feminism.

[–]Source_or_gtfo 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

The Red Pill (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLzeakKC6fE), a documentary about MRAs, has some history in it. I've seen other MRAs post a history book on the history of the MRM before but I can't remember it, I'll try to find it later.

The MRM was started by feminists in the 70s who wanted equality for both men and women and wanted to get rid of traditional gender roles on both sides. Warren Farrell, the most famous MRA, used to be on the board of directors for NOW, the largest feminist organization. Erin Pizzey, an MRA who focuses on domestic violence, founded the world's first battered women's shelter. The MRAs tried to work with other feminists but most other feminists were fighting against them and insisting that men didn't need any help because men didn't have any real problems.

There was another men's movement, the pro-feminist men's movement, and that's what menslib is based on. That men's movement agreed with the anti-MRA feminists that men weren't victims of DV, women didn't rape men, discrimination against men wasn't real, etc. and their view was that men just needed to do more to help women. That's the side that menslib is on, and they claim that the MRAs who supported equality and believed that all victims of DV should get help are misogynists. Menslib won't acknowledge any of that history, they made up their own history claiming that the MRM was started by anti-feminist traditionalists who want women back in the kitchen even though menslib can't give any sources for that. They claim the pro feminist men's movement was helping men but again can't give any examples of it.

I'll try to find what the book was since I know that has a lot of sources for this.

[–]Source_or_gtfo 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]transientcat 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Andrew_Squared 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]transientcat 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aivias 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]transientcat 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Aivias 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

Hopefully both MensLib and Men's Rights will eventually grow and mature enough so that they can support each other. This sub definitely has over the years, so there's hope those in MensLib can, too.

I started following r-MensLib because I felt things were a little too hostile here (that has since changed). But I got annoyed because things seemed too passive over there (not the best description of how I felt but can't think of something better).

I tried to figure out what was so different between the two groups, and I came up with one fundamental difference: the approach to emotional reactions.

Here on r-MensRights all emotions are considered correct by default and defended as justified. Over on r-MensLib emotions are policed - they need to be the correct reaction expressed in the correct way or you're wrong.

Both approaches create problems. And man, I wish I could express the nuances right now but I have a splitting headache. Hopefully just this idea will be enough to provide some food for thought.

But basically, allowing all emotions to flow unquestioned can cause toxic emotions to reinforce and become more toxic. Suppressing emotions can cause them to burst out and wreak havoc. The middle ground of addressing all emotions and exploring their source and directing towards root causes will make them become a productive source of insight rather than problematic crap to deal with.

Food for thought.

EDIT: I had to repost this because I had used reddit's autolinking for the respective subs I was referring to and my comment was removed due to linking to r-MensLib being banned. I changed it to prepending "r-" to reinforce that I'm talking about these specific communities and not their respective movements as a whole.

[–]Pillowed321 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Hopefully both MensLib and Men's Rights will eventually grow and mature enough so that they can support each other.

How are we supposed to "grow up" and support a sub created for the purpose of opposing us? From day 1 menslib was telling lies about our movement and calling us misogynists for supporting equality, all while defending misandry. I know you didn't mean to be but it's condescending for you to reduce our valid objections to menslib to us just needing to "grow up." We do and always have supported people who support equality for men, including egalitarian feminists, so we don't need to grow up for that.

I tried to figure out what was so different between the two groups

This sub is honest and based on well-sourced facts. We support equality and oppose sexism. Menslib makes things up and has never been able to provide any sources for their claims about feminism or MRAs, and menslib attacks those who have historically fought for equality while defending those that fought against equality. That's the difference. Some users at menslib may be different but all of the mods are like that.

I felt things were a little too hostile here (that has since changed)

This sub was very bad during the election, but most of that toxicity wasn't from actual MRAs we just got brigaded a lot by agenda pushers.

[–]Cryhavok101 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kravego -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]fourthwallcrisis 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aivias 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]fourthwallcrisis 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kravego -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aivias 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Kravego 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kravego 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nforne 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I believe this subreddit has been increasing it's moderation which is why I've perceived it as less hostile over the years.

It is a fine line. It is important in a support group for people to feel heard and express their feelings. It is common for someone to get hurt and then fear everyone like the person who hurt them could do it, too. And in a support group like this, that can end up with a lot of misogynistic views. But you don't want to outright silence them as that will make them feel even more hurt and marginalized.

So it's a tough moderation job. You don't want hate speech to bounce around in an echo chamber, but you also don't want people to go off to even more extreme groups in search of the support they need. But in order to prevent a toxic echo chamber, you need a large enough group of people who can help direct participants towards more healthy ways of perceiving the source of their pain.

It's not an easy situation at all.

[–]Luchadorgreen 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Cryhavok101 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Adanu0 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]workerdaemon -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Hopefully both MensLib and Men's Rights will eventually grow and mature enough so that they can support each other. This sub definitely has over the years, so there's hope those in MensLib can, too.

I started following /r/MensLib because I felt things were a little too hostile here (that has since changed). But I got annoyed because things seemed too passive over there (not the best description of how I felt but can't think of something better).

I tried to figure out what was so different between the two groups, and I came up with one fundamental difference: the approach to emotional reactions.

Here on /r/MensRights all emotions are considered correct by default and defended as justified. Over on /r/MensLib emotions are policed - they need to be the correct reaction expressed in the correct way or you're wrong.

Both approaches create problems. And man, I wish I could express the nuances right now but I have a splitting headache. Hopefully just this idea will be enough to provide some food for thought.

But basically, allowing all emotions to flow unquestioned can cause toxic emotions to reinforce and become more toxic. Suppressing emotions can cause them to burst out and wreak havoc. The middle ground of addressing all emotions and exploring their source and directing towards root causes will make them become a productive source of insight rather than problematic crap to deal with.

Food for thought.

[–]TheRavenousRabbit 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Eastuss[🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]njullpointer 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Quintrell 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Larrow 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Quintrell 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

it's really hard to generalize the S.C.

This is true. Hence why I asked the question. Unfortunately it appears initial commenter doesn't have a basis for their assertion that the law is clearly unconstitutional (they're just talking out of their ass). Based on the holding in Michael v. Sonoma County, there's a good case to be made that the law does not violate the equal protection guarantees of the 14th amendment. In that case, the court ruled constitutional a law which criminalized the act of a man sleeping with a minor female but not a woman sleeping with a minor male. IMO opinion the NC law doesn't fit within that framework and likely would not survive a constitutional challenge but it really depends on the judge you get and how high in the appellate court system you go. Thanks for your response.

[–]Larrow 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]njullpointer 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]peterwakefield777 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]inspiredshane 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_REDHAIR 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_REDHAIR 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ps288 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Electroverted 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EasternChildhood 36 points37 points38 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points32 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EasternChildhood 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SOwED 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]EasternChildhood 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kragshot 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Jethr0Paladin 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]VoodooIdol 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]curtwagner1984 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ed_Radley 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Two_Tone_Xylophone 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, when did justice turn into a man hating bitch? I though she was blind anyways, where does she get off basing decisions on gender?

Honestly this isn't even a men's issue, it's just wrong, everyone should be against the idea of separate laws based on gender, regardless of which gender or what law is being talked about, equality demands that under the law all people are treated the same, you can't make laws that treat black people differently for a very good fucking reason, same reason as why you shouldn't make laws that treat men and women differently...

Like what in the actual fuck,I'm getting irate the more I think about how flatly wrong that is...I mean why the fuck isn't there a law already that stops legislator from doing shit like this....the worst bit is no one is talking about this shit, imagine if they made a law saying black people caught with a unregistered firearm will do double the time as a white person commiting the same crime? You know how apeshit everyone would go over something like that? Myself included, but I'm also pissed at this as well...wtf.

[–]Nick30075 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]TheWetSock -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Droechai 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthCerebroX 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, because that mentality has worked sooo well hasn’t it?... You’d think after all of human history, people would have realized by now that the honor system doesn’t work. Just because you tell people not to do something or that a behavior is “bad/wrong”, it’s not going to just magically stop all people from doing it. As much as the human race has progressed, we’re still just animals and can be very selfish, cruel and evil at times. Unfortunately, there are always people that have no problem hurting and exploiting others for their own self interests.

The only thing that stops some people from committing certain acts is laws/regulations that punish them... In other words, consequences for their actions. If people don’t have to fear any consequences for their bad behavior, then nothing stops them from doing it. This world isn’t full of saints that always do the right thing and never harm other beings.

But anyways, u/TheWetSock has it all figured out guys. Looks like we can pack it up and go home. All we have to do is tell people not to assault anyone and the problem will solve itself!! Idk why we didn’t think of that before.

Do you have any more amazing solutions you want to contribute to this conversation? I’m dying to here how you’d tackle the rest of the worlds problems!...

World hunger- “Just give people food, problem solved!”
Poverty and wealth inequality- “Just give poor people money, problem solved!”
Cancer- “Just cure it, problem solved!”

[+][deleted] -21 points-20 points-19 points 8 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -16 points-15 points-14 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Pillowed321 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthCerebroX 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, because that mentality has worked sooo well hasn’t it?... You’d think after all of human history, people would have realized by now that the honor system doesn’t work. Just because you tell people not to do something or that a behavior is “bad/wrong”, it’s not going to just magically stop all people from doing it. As much as the human race has progressed, we’re still just animals and can be very selfish, cruel and evil at times. Unfortunately, there are always people that have no problem hurting and exploiting others for their own self interests.

The only thing that stops some people from committing certain acts is laws/regulations that punish them... In other words, consequences for their actions. If people don’t have to fear any consequences for their bad behavior, then nothing stops them from doing it. This world isn’t full of saints that always do the right thing and never harm other beings.

But anyways, u/wellshitimacreeper has it all figured out guys. Looks like we can pack it up and go home. All we have to do is tell people not to assault anyone and the problem will solve itself!! Idk why we didn’t think of that before.

Do you have any more amazing solutions you want to contribute to this conversation? I’m dying to here how you’d tackle the rest of the worlds problems!...

World hunger- “Just give people food, problem solved!”
Poverty and wealth inequality- “Just give poor people money, problem solved!”
Cancer- “Just cure it, problem solved!”

[–]AloysiusC 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Im not usually a fan of r/menslib but i can get behind this
Author	Pyromed
Upvotes	2443
Comments	195
Date	February 20, 2018 1:12 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7yvrse/im_not_usually_a_fan_of_rmenslib_but_i_can_get/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/im-not-usually-a-fan-of-rmenslib-but-i-can-get.1179376 https://theredarchive.com/post/1179376

Comments