If women want their male partners to be more vulnerable, why is it that there are so many stories of men who opened up and were ridiculed/dumped/cheated on soon after?

rbkforrestr · 2023-05-02T12:34:32+00:00

For starters, the women who don’t like their partner being vulnerable usually aren’t the same ones asking for it. There is no blanket ‘women’ to speak of - there are billions of women each with their own wants, desires, personalities, etc.

Also - red-pill communities are full of confirmation bias. Of course you’re not going to see men posting in redpill spaces about how their partner encouraged them to be vulnerable and then welcomed them with open arms.

To put it into perspective… some women may say things like ‘all men cheat.’

Obviously that isn’t true. You could reply ‘but I haven’t and wouldn’t cheat.’

She could reply with ‘every man I’ve ever been with has cheated on me. My dad cheated on my mom. My best friend just got cheated on too.’

That’s the thing about anecdotes. While that’s her experience and it sucks, we both know it doesn’t mean that ‘all’ men cheat, right? Because there are billions of you and you don’t all share one consciousness. You all wake up every day with unique desires and perspectives and make different choices from each other.

Same with women. A group of anecdotes you hear in a space meant to demonize women do not represent all - or even most - women.

xvszero · 2023-05-02T11:59:01+00:00

Because there are 4 billion women on this planet, "women" don't want any single thing and you can find stories of anything amongst 4 billion people. Especially if you get caught up in certain things like red pill which are specifically about sharing stories of the worst women (or often just making things up) to create a narrative. Selection bias.

Generally speaking though I think you should find someone you can be vulnerable with. I've certainly never had any issues when I've been vulnerable with women. If you're finding that you do, your dating / relationship decisions might be a bit busted.

ttandam · 2023-05-02T15:46:56+00:00

I’ve dated both types of woman. The ones who can’t handle negative emotion make you feel terrible when you’re vulnerable. But that’s the Red Pill’s main issue: overgeneralization. It comes down to a person’s character, and character varies widely.

I’ve recently gotten into learning about attachment styles, and a working theory I have is that TRP describes all women in the way that I have experienced some avoidantly-attached women in my past. Could be wrong but I think a securely-attached woman wouldn’t be as scared / turned-off by vulnerability.

ROBYoutube · 2023-05-02T12:02:44+00:00

Another reason could be a lack of emotional intelligence. Some men only have two emotional settings: repression, and insane. When women request a man be vulnerable, she is probably seeking appropriate emotional responses, and instead either gets a blank wall or a meltdown.

RepresentativeThin27 · 2023-05-02T14:32:44+00:00

As per Mark Manson's definition, vulnerability doesn't always refer to opening yourself up about your tragic experiences, but it's also about sharing controversial and weird aspects of yourself, establishing boundaries, opinions, etc. The point of being vulnerable is not to attract any woman out there, but to make sure that the one you are attracting is the right fit for you in terms of values, beliefs, lifestyle, goals, etc.

luridlurker · 2023-05-02T17:19:52+00:00

There's shitty women out there. There's shitty men too.

I've seen many people (men and women alike) who mistake unloading on someone inappropriately for "vulnerability". Being vulnerable doesn't mean you just lash out, use someone like an emotional sponge or emotionally manipulate someone through playing the victim.

Emotional vulnerability requires mutual respect, mutual trust and reciprocation. Tons of people don't have the maturity for that.

HappyRainbowSparkle · 2023-05-02T15:27:38+00:00

How many men are going to post or share, going through a hard time was vulnerable to partner she supported me, people don't really post those kind of things it's easier to post about issues for help not just this went well

Actual_Average_3941 · 2023-05-02T12:56:38+00:00

stop listening to stories and go outside and see what the women around you are like.

EntertainmentNeat592 · 2023-05-02T15:49:30+00:00

There is a difference between being emotionally vulnerable and trauma dumping. A lot of men who tried to be emotionally vulnerable with me were just treating me like their emotional trash can and depended so heavily on emotional support that it was weighing on my own emotional health. Those men had little to no emotional regulation of their own. That is besides the fact a lot of those emotional vulnerabilities comes with men acting like victim and blaming everyone and everything but himself.

ResistPrestigious373 · 2023-05-02T17:14:14+00:00

There is a huge difference in being vulnerable and trauma/emotional dumping. Being vulnerable just means being able to share regular experiences with your partner or sharing deeper feelings. For example, I have an ex who would not open up to me about anything. Come holiday time, he didn't want to go visit my friends/family. He would never tell me why. And I found out later from someone else that my gay best friend made him uncomfortable.... these are just basic things that he should have been able to tell me but never would. Our relationship was never secure, I always felt unsafe. He was never 100% all-in, in that way....

If a man/woman can't be vulnerable with his/her partner, the relationship is doomed.

Downtown_Cat_1172 · 2023-05-02T11:56:18+00:00

Where did you hear these stories? I invite you to Google the bias known as the “availability heuristic.”

TeacherYankeeDoodle · 2023-05-02T18:11:39+00:00

Honesty and openness differ from making your partner your unpaid therapist. It's hard to tell which of these said stories refer to.

HaveALittleGrace · 2023-05-02T12:27:33+00:00

Gahd, this shit makes me want to throw fisticuffs sometimes. I've definitely been some confirmation bias for a few men, so I think I can take a very honest stab at this:

1) Shamefully Hiding Vital Context Ex: I've been the victim of pretty mentally insane smear campaigns from people who know they'd probably want to die from humiliation if their withheld context were also revealed to those who they told I was some form of "evil", "bad", or whatever creative, colourful language would be used to describe me beyond their victim story. Tell all sides and be honest! If you're wrong, you're wrong.

This process I learned is called "contextomy" and abusers are apparently known for it; I heard it's to shield their ego in many cases by displacing the negative feelings at another's expense, even if it costs them their life. Also fascinating, right? Self-protection by sacrificing someone else, whether you meant it or not, is subjectively "bad" in my mind. Don't do the whole throwing rocks in the glass house thing.

2) Unreasonable Expectations Ex: When women try to be emotional with a lot of men, be passionate about our love for you, in many cases the escalating stops and sometimes for really stupid reasons like... 🥁... "her vulnerability made me uncomfortable" like men blame women for all the time. Except all we have to do to be considered "psycho" or "crazy" sometimes is cry. We don't even have to really be freaking out.

...WHICH LEADS ME TO A MASSIVE POINT...

3) Relationship Appropriateness Ex: Some of the men I've known whom were admittedly Red Pill, that I was very good friends with (with zero possibility of a relationship beyond friends) have admitted just truly fucked up things. Like fuuuucked up things that they forced me to hear. Now here's the kicker: there is often withheld vital info from the story and they told others that they were just "vulnerable" with me and I 'dumped' them. Fin.

Uh huh...sure, I guess that's technically the truth. However, if someone admitted to hurting a vulnerable child at an age they "should have known better", that would likely cause decades-long trauma for the person they did these things to, like sex abuse or beating them, what would you do? Wouldn't most people say this belongs in Confessional in The Church or with a professional who is equipped to handle such things?

4) Relationship Hierarchy Ex: What if you had a child you felt like you now needed to protect above a friend's 'feels'. Keep in mind, I never turned them into the law, though I'm thinking about it now because they retaliated. I told my partner for our child's protection. Nobody knew who it was otherwise. Now, what if you were a sex abuse and beating survivor yourself? Honest context are big factors and you're hiding huge chunks! Excuse me?! 😱

5) Realistic Emotional Maturity (especially those 40+) Ex: My favourite other little tidbit about this person listed above is that they also failed to mention was they confronted me in my own home about my ethical polyamory in front of not only my partner, but my fucking child; he didn't believe that both partners knew about each other. "Is that your business, sir? Or should you verify things first?!"

6) The "Some Guys ARE Creepy" Trope Ex: That did not go as planned and he got the boot after many chances to behave like a civil human, not a mental animal. That just clearly shows how chronically online you are: you've now blended your online make-ICP-cool-again vibe, but that it's at the expense of not only another person, but he attempted to shatter an entire family for online clout? For an ego boost that's temporary?! [rages at "vulnerability"]

greentea_solaire · 2023-05-02T17:48:45+00:00

obviously this is 100% confirmation bias but in my situation of dating within gen z, any time i showed vulnerability or unmasked cause im autistic and its hard to hide it, ive had tons of negative experiences opening up to women

daylightxx · 2023-05-02T21:08:48+00:00

There are still a ton of unhealthy social norms that people continue doing because it’s what we’re all used to. This is one of them. A man’s height is another and the way it’s a free for all to drag someone for being short. Another is men’s body image.

There’s work to be done to get these things normalized. Think back 20-30 years. You’d never see overweight women wearing crop tops and feeling confident and sexy! It’s only now that women can wear those types of clothing regardless of their weight.

I think that’s a direct result of women fighting to be seen as more than just a conquest, someone young enough and hot enough to be fuckable. We took the narrative back on several ways and women are given much more grace than men in some ways.

So, do something about it. Men need to unite and start demanding equal respect in these situations. Normalize men crying! Normalize men feeling ashamed of their body! And when you normalize it, you also start to fix it. Things can get better if you guys put the work in.

oldcousingreg · 2023-05-02T21:31:34+00:00

Because being a jerk isn’t exclusive to any gender. Being vulnerable with the wrong person isn’t your fault.

No_Valuable_587 · 2023-05-02T12:58:15+00:00

Men have been trained from birth to expect that their vulnerability will open them to attack, so in order to protect themselves they build up the idea that women will also reinforce those expectations, and if they see any behavior from women that might even remotely suggest that their efforts aren't going to be rewarded, they are going to quit. Simply put, the price of vulnerability from a man is pretty high from society and lots of men will do whatever they need to do to justify the idea that they should not pay it, even if it is at the cost of their own private relationships

2023-05-03T03:12:00+00:00

There's a problem with vulnerability and it's that most people think vulnerability is weakness.

Vulnerability is expressing yourself the way you are (desires, emotions, boundaries, everything). The only way to be vulnerable is to be radically honest.

That said, most men, when they are being "vulnerable" (according to them) they are just being weak (which has NOTHING to do with vulnerability).

If you are always complaining, lamenting, feeling sorry for yourself, blaming others for your misfortunes... that's not vulnerability, that's weakness and not taking responisbility.

Vulnerability + responsibility = Attractive (for both men and women)

Vulnerability WITHOUT responsibility = Unattractive (for both men and women)

I don't care how hot, kind, charismatic a woman is, if she's always complaining, blaming, and not taking responsibility for her life, then she's out.

Hope that helps.

thetruthishere_ · 2023-05-02T15:09:33+00:00

These men just think thats the reason, there were others and blame that instead. Or these men were straight up needy whiners.

WaffleConeDX · 2023-05-02T23:54:17+00:00

The biggest issue is assuming all men and women think alike. They’re women who are “redpilled” and don’t believe in men showing their emotions. Those women are not the same as women who want their men to be vulnerable.

LemonLime67219 · 2023-05-02T22:58:43+00:00

Survivorship bias? Not saying those stories aren't true, or that the lack of reciprocity in relationships isn't a mutual issue. But people who are unhappy with their relationships are more likely to talk about it, especially online.

Most people who I know are in healthy relationships have no issue "opening up" to, and trusting their partner, regardless of gender.

the_sea_witch · 2023-05-03T00:07:42+00:00

A recent study found the biggest killer of sexual desire in women was when they started to view as a dependant they need to take care off. I think there is a difference though between being open and vunerable and being dependant. Too often i think men overly rely on their partner to be their everything. Which can feel like too much. Whereas women typically have a wider support system and are much more likely to see a therapist etc.

FastCardiologist6128 · 2023-05-03T00:48:17+00:00

I am a girl and I have had female friends treat me differently after seeing me cry lol, there are many women who weren't allowed to cry when they were little and they internalized that crying equals being weak. So they will have contempt for every person they see crying, thinking they must be weak. And some men do this too and they take advantage of women they deem weak

Just don't go with emotionally stunted people or people who lack empathy and morals and you will be good

PapaSanjay · 2023-05-02T20:52:53+00:00

Because even women can internalize patriarchy so deeply they don’t even recognize it.

Because some women are shitty people who are capping to their partners

Because some women just cheat

They are so many different reasons why humans do weird shit. They into real way to figure out why someone does something is for them to tell you.

And a lot of time they don’t do hypotheticals like this seem kind of in ill-will

SweelFor- · 2023-05-02T15:58:05+00:00

1% of 4 billion is 40 million

mikayrodr · 2023-05-02T18:34:38+00:00

A lot of good answers here already but I want to add that they could be spinning a false narrative of what happened. Imagine: you’re having dinner with your partner, suddenly they trauma dump after years of repression. They immediately clam back up. A year later they do the exact thing they complained about happening to them. Their partner points it out. Suddenly they’re “weaponizing” what was told. Only… that’s not what’s happening. Their partner is pointing out a cycle of abuse or a hypocrisy.

Yes, there will be people that shit on you for being vulnerable. But that’s not every human and it’s rarely as cut and dry as “I opened up to her and now she’s mean 😭😭😭😭😭”

Your_Nipples · 2023-05-02T13:15:49+00:00

Easy, women can also be agent of this so called Patriarchy. It's just that feminists forget about it and think all the men on earth get their "crazy" ideas from Andrew Tate.

That's why it is important to not give a fuck about what women (or people in general) want because sometimes, it is toxic, unrealistic and should be challenged.

And when people pull that taboo under the rug, that's where the red pill comes in and offer some (stupid) answer.

Some women turn young men into lunatics.

IzuraHeman · 2023-05-03T02:27:56+00:00

First of, there is a difference between vulnerable and a whiny little bitch. If you are honest about your problems, a good partner will appreciate that, and help you even, due to (empathy) which is a bare minimum in a relationship.
Vulnerability is key to a functioning relationship.

Vulnerability is an act of being honest, trusting and opening up while whining is always complaining. Maybe some men all they do is complain and no action, that made women go bored and fed up. (Not saying women can't do this too).

Vulnerability and complaining/whining can be misunderstood as one another, to those who don't understand.

CoffeeGainsDrums · 2023-05-13T02:01:22+00:00

Aside from the comments about things like selection bias, which is real, neediness is a giant factor here.

Being genuinely vulnerable with strength and courage is totally different than being vulnerable and needy at the same time.

It’s the difference between “I’m sharing things with you” and “I’m sharing things with you and want you to affirm me and need to know that you don’t think less of me.”

One is, (on average, I’d say) attractive, the other is never attractive.

Stargazer1919 · 2023-05-02T22:01:19+00:00

They probably weren't broken up with for being vulnerable. They were broken up with because of other bullshit.

kigerting · 2023-05-03T02:04:53+00:00

because some guys will make this a one way street - you become an emotional dumpster because you're the only one they will open up to, and they don't reciprocate listening - i have experienced this more than once

CrossdressTimelady · 2023-05-02T20:40:50+00:00

I'm a woman, so I'll attempt to explain this LOL (btw, I find this sub to be a fascinating look into how men think, etc).

There have been situations where a man has opened up to me about his darker side and it was... well, off-putting. Like what comes out is so disturbing you don't want to be alone in a room with that person.

My best recommendation? Look up the idea of "shadow work" and sort through that yourself FIRST. Identify which flaws or darker sides of your personality you want to work on instead of just being like "well, this is how I am, plz fuck me".

Woman generally love the hell out of it when the man they're seeing talks about what they're doing to become a better person.

For example, I've had men be honest and vulnerable about the amount of time they spend on porn. For me, that's usually a red flag-- they say that and I think, "oh, the sex is going to be horrible, he's not socially well-adjusted, he might really lack boundaries, women have ended up with anal prolapse from men trying to copy what they see in porn." At that point, my lady boner for that person is gone because of all the negative things I associate with porn usage/addiction.

Now... if that same person was incredibly vulnerable about how they know they have a problem, and they're doing X, Y, Z to stop that habit and be a better person, and they have a support network so they're not relying on me to be their therapist as the quit porn, they're 110% still fuckable despite having that flaw. However, it needs to be a GENUINE desire with active steps being taken to be better.

Or take obesity. No matter how politically incorrect it is to say it, that's normally a turn-off. But if someone turned it around and now they love to be active, and they do intermittent fasting, and their waist size has dropped by about 10 inches? Now THAT'S fucking hot. IMO, that's hotter than someone who has never had that struggle and worked through it, because those challenges build character.

Fritz_Frauenraub · 2023-05-02T20:18:17+00:00

If you're weak, you're weak-whether you show "vulnerability" or not.

Q-9 · 2023-05-02T14:34:33+00:00

Can't talk about anyone else, but having a stoic robot as a partner doesn't really sound fun for either one in the relationship.

azucarleta · 2023-05-02T22:04:47+00:00

Gut reaction: because some guys won't get vulnerable with what is bothering them until it has lead them to some very bad behavior, now they are being held accountable for that bad behavior, and only now does the guy suddenly whip out his childhood trauma, or whatever.

This doesn't just have to be guys, btw. All people can kinda hide from accountability behind legit trauma/wounds that need care, but are not getting it. But the question for these people is whether they are taking care of themselves in advance of the bad behavior, so as to avoid it, or are they just repeating bad patterns from old wounds? Lots of people keep repeating the problematic relationship beat-for-beat with new partners (like a movie remake) -- and may feel they get dumped for being vulnerable each time -- when from each of their partners' POVs the person is getting dumped for being a taker/selfish/dishonest/user/whatever the case may be/etc and never works on their shit, never even mentions it hardly, until they are in trouble for having done something rude, horrible, whatever, then conveniently and only then do they invite you to a pity party about their issues--which doesn't really help heal things to avoid the bad behavior.

DarkestTimeline24 · 2023-05-03T03:11:43+00:00

Sharing feelings/opening up isn’t the same thing as using someone as a therapist. Sometimes because men aren’t encouraged to seek emotional intimacy outside of romance they accidentally overload their partners or potential partners by inappropriately trauma dumping. ‘Hey I just met you and this is crazy but I’m emotionally unstable it’s now your job to save me baby’ it’s a lot sometimes.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2023-05-04T01:08:39+00:00

Some women want a vulnerable partner, some don't. Some say they do but actually wouldn't like it, and others actually really do want it. A big reason for this is these gender norms where men are supposed to be emotionless and tough that both men and women have bought into.

Also you shouldn't open up too quickly and doing so might be a sign of attachment issues. Take your time getting to know someone and gradually opening up together. Also when you do make it clear that you are focused on self-improvement and fixing the issues you have.

Title	If women want their male partners to be more vulnerable, why is it that there are so many stories of men who opened up and were ridiculed/dumped/cheated on soon after?
Author	WhattehHellDOIDO
Upvotes	64
Comments	125
Date	May 2, 2023 11:54 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/135ix22/if_women_want_their_male_partners_to_be_more/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/if-women-want-their-male-partners-to-be-more.1217610 https://theredarchive.com/post/1217610

Comments