Men are not a monolith, women are not a monolith. What’s the value in engaging in absolutism?

Billsandasonom · 2023-06-16T16:17:30+00:00

It's pretty damn hard to make arguments for your beliefs or ideology without speaking in some sort of absolutes, with the implication that exceptions obviously exist. That's why you have people saying "___________ aren't a moNoLiTh" and then going on to make generalizations about entire groups themselves - usually the groups they are against or criticizing. So the "not a monolith" thing is pointless basically and should be inherently understood for those above a room temp IQ or debating in good faith.

SorryEm · 2023-06-16T18:43:03+00:00

Men have patterns, women have patterns. That's a fact.

BaronVSS · 2023-06-16T19:57:25+00:00

At sufficient scale, the individual is irrelevant. Population level arguments are far more important when discussing issues like these.

purplish_possum · 2023-06-16T14:30:32+00:00

Understanding useful patterns and employing that understanding to increase your chances of success is what people have always done.

If you are hunting an animal it certainly helps to understand that animal's behavioral patterns. Such understanding greatly increases the probability a hunt will be successful and greatly decreases the probability you'll be injured by your prey.

RedditAlt999 · 2023-06-16T17:18:14+00:00

sweeping generalisations

That's the only way to have a logical discussion that isn't filled with "but this girl I know" or "well, my kid's teacher's cousin's boyfriend" blah blah blah.

lolthankstinder · 2023-06-16T20:10:39+00:00

Silicon Valley Bank members were not a monolith. However, when enough of them decided to want to withdraw their money, the bank collapsed. Trends in individual preferences across large numbers of individuals have real, noticeable, tangible effects. We should be able to talk about economic dating trends caused by common general preferences and behaviors of men or women in dating without constantly being derailed and reminded that Susie Q in the Sahara Desert might not want to withdraw her money from the Silicon Valley Bank.

DoinIt989 · 2023-06-16T21:47:06+00:00

One thing you have to remember about this sub is that a lot of people are either A: On the autism spectrum B: Don't have much social experience and/or C: Are relatively young (under 25). They tend to absolutism because they simply don't have the mental space, or the proper life experience, to handle nuance.

questioningfeminist · 2023-06-16T22:37:01+00:00

I once saw a documentary where a lioness nursed a baby antelope that had lost it's mother.

Should we now go under the assumption that not all lions eat baby antelopes and fundamentally change how we talk about lions?

"Lions eat antelopes"

"Fucking incel!! Not all lions eat antelopes!! My friend lion didn't!"

AdiweleAdiwele · 2023-06-16T14:38:34+00:00

It's the internet, man. Black-and-white thinking, he-said she-said and confirmation bias dominate. It wouldn't be so bad if these attitudes weren't spreading to through social media where the younger generation are guaranteed to come across them sooner or later.

The other week I was listening to my girlfriend's teenage cousins rave about Andrew Tate. Kids are having their head filled with toxic filth before they've even left home and had a chance to form their own ideas about how the world works. It's sad and really doesn't bode well.

AhsokaSolo · 2023-06-16T15:19:42+00:00

OP I am so with you. I don't see the point at all. I constantly see people defend it based on averages or most of X group likes/is like this. But so what? Nobody fits the "average" or the "most" 100% of the time.

Also nobody picks partners based on that. It's so divorced from human interaction imo. People connect on the things that they have in common, and often especially on the things that make them outside the norm.

Balochim · 2023-06-17T01:58:37+00:00

The funny thing is (outside of purge week) anything resembling a comment on one of those "non-monoliths" gets your post instantly removed, while blatantly hateful comments towards the other are left up...

LillthOfBabylon · 2023-06-17T11:29:10+00:00

What’s the value in engaging in absolutism?

I think low IQ individuals cannot process complexity.

Eternal-Arguement · 2023-06-16T14:05:11+00:00

This is a great take. What so many people like to ignore is that disagreement is a sign of democracy and it's very normal for other people to share different values in dating.

meteorness123 · 2023-06-16T22:53:07+00:00

Not having to think a lot.

Black and white thinking appeals a lot to neurodivergent crowds whom are overly represented in the manosphere.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-06-16T14:42:21+00:00

on both the female and male side making massive assumptions and sweeping generalisations

But see, I rarely see blue pillers talking about what all men do. I see them quite frequently make reference to what the men here think, for sure. But as far as making sweeping generalizations about men as a whole, that almost exclusively comes from red pillers as well

PMmeareasontolive · 2023-06-16T15:18:23+00:00

Feminism wouldn't exist if everyone thought as you do. Feminism had wrought a lot of change so viewing experience as gendered does have some practical value.

Happy_Nuclear_End · 2023-06-16T18:24:02+00:00

The modern women are indeed a monolith lol, like the same things, do the same things, are interested in the same guys, have the same values, same opinions, they only have small variations; pick a goth today and she'll show the same tastes as any other girl with the difference being only clothing style and make-up.

Special-Possession44 · 2023-06-16T23:46:37+00:00

truth is simple, only women try to make it sound complicated because they all want to be 'special and unique' XD

AutoModerator · 2023-06-16T14:02:22+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-06-16T17:18:56+00:00

In the case of generalizing for the sake of attacking a gender and characterizing them as somehow worse than the other, I agree.

If we're talking about trying to extract advice based on common preferences or behaviors then here we need to generalize somewhat. In order to provide any kind of advice for men or women we need to have in mind some archetype.

Even uncontroversial advice like "Women like a man to be authentic" is generalizing and we're making assumptions that enough women like this characteristic that this is worth investing in for attracting women, over the nearly infinite other things a man could invest in.

While no man or woman is exactly the same as another, there are enough commonalities that it is possible to produce good general advice for attracting them. If every person were completely, uniquely different and any preference were as likely as any other it would be pointless to attempt to give any general advice.

zaph239 · 2023-06-16T17:42:28+00:00

You can't have a meaningful discussion about society while bringing up endless exceptions.

The you don't don't know every woman/man arguments tend to be made by people in foolish denial about biology and evolution.

After all, in 200 hundred years time everyone posting here will be dead. It doesn't matter how much that goes against your feminist narrative, nature doesn't care.

The same is true when it comes to human sexuality, you can use feminist non-sense to deny biology till you're blue in the face. Such non-sense arguments will always crushed by biological drives.

Ohmaygahh · 2023-06-16T18:24:29+00:00

What’s the value in ~~engaging in absolutism~~ creating heuristics to quickly organize your world?

FTFY. Well, it saves time. Unfortunately we all have a limited amount of time here on Earth. As you grow older, you start to feel how small your window is. It would be an incredible waste of time to treat everyone so uniquely special and different when realize that approx. 45% of people voted for orange man, and the other 55% have varying foibles.

massive assumptions and sweeping generalisations.

That is how one can draw broad stroke conclusions. Look, the reasonable assumptions we can all make about each other is:

Almost ALL humans behave in self interested ways.
The great majority of men and women behave close to the bellcurve of their respective sex.

These are reasonable tenets in which to expand a worldview.

Vapelord420XXXD · 2023-06-16T18:36:27+00:00

But then we can't get mad and fling shit at each other.

c0pkill3r · 2023-06-16T19:16:06+00:00

As Jung says: Man and His Symbols. We are simply limited by language it's self. So we must use archetypes to attempt communication.

Safinated · 2023-06-16T19:28:19+00:00

Ease of argument and stereotyping

bison5595 · 2023-06-16T20:13:31+00:00

Because if you don’t use generalizations, these conversations go nowhere. Everyone will simply say not all or I know some exception, so it makes these forums pointless

Fogofit24 · 2023-06-16T20:47:15+00:00

Cus it's fun brooosskkiiiiii, I know you ain't looking for rationality in PPD lol I had a discussion with a woman who advocated so much for marriage and kids you woulda thought she was down for government enforced arranged marriage. She told me men and women aren't forming friendships because they're afraid their friends will steal their spouses due to the sexual revolution 🤣🤣🤣 just enjoy the ride

Caring_Cactus · 2023-06-16T21:00:19+00:00

Yes people do overgeneralize like this sadly, and a lot of influencers on social media encourage it on purpose to stir people up. This is a big reason I barely interact in this subreddit anymore, it's kind of pointless imo, but people find debates in general fun.

abaxeron · 2023-06-16T23:47:07+00:00

Men are not a monolith, women are not a monolith.

The entire political system of the West in the last 100 years was/ still is built on assumption that men, relative to women, are the monolithic oppressor class; "muh intersectionality" merely means that some of the oppressors also oppress each other. You may for fun count how many times "women earn seventy-something cents" has been repeated during the Obama era by news media and Obama himself.

But yes, screw us for rightfully observing that many, many, many women irrationally lose composure in presence of dysgenically tall men.

TablePrime69 · 2023-06-17T03:26:24+00:00

What are we all hoping to achieve by this?

You're in a debate sub, what did you expect?

DM me your country, I can help and find you some special needs and mental health resources

Magnito-was-right · 2023-06-17T04:45:20+00:00

The men that just spew vitriol about women are only shooting themselves in the foot. I try to help them, but they don't actually want help they just want to go on their misogynistic rants. I even agree with some of their points like that attractiveness is just as important to both men and women and that a lot of average men do get shafted because a lot of average women only go for men out of their league. I tell them to work on their social skills and find a specific look and hobbies that are interests of the women they want to date because women will go for less attractive guys if they have the style they are attracted to. But they don't want to change and just want to be bitter instead of adapting.

penguintransformer · 2023-06-17T05:00:57+00:00

Because everyone here is dumb.

outerspace9999 · 2023-06-17T05:03:23+00:00

All generalizations have exceptions and reasonable people know that. When I say “men do x” or “women are like x” I’m assuming you’re smart enough to know that doesn’t literally mean every single man or woman.

Royal-Tip4585 · 2023-06-17T06:02:55+00:00

People are clouds of statistical probability not completely random. That’s why I can say this person likes cars and 80% of the time get that gender right if I said it’s a dude.

obviousredflag · 2023-06-17T07:43:25+00:00

When talking about groups, the traits attributed to them are mean values. Trait expressions in nature are usually normally distributed. That means that MOST individuals fall very close to the mean and very few are very far from the mean.

"Humans have two arms". HUMANS ARE NOT A MONOLITH. Yes, but when you want to start selling pullovers to the general public, you better make them with two sleeves instead of 1 or 3.

What usually is not paid enough attention to is, that differences in means for men and women are smaller between the two groups than within the two groups. Women as a group are more similar to men as a group, then individual men are to other men. The differences in means are small, yet they are treated as if they are black and white.

Spyro7x3 · 2023-06-17T09:11:55+00:00

I think the desire is to identify the inherent differences between men and women. You can say neither is monolith all you want but there is something unsatisfactory or incomplete about this idea, people are compelled to identify the inherent differences that they know must exist otherwise there would not even be two different words for man and woman to draw an intelligible distinction from their form with.

Active-Razzmatazz-86 · 2023-06-17T09:18:01+00:00

Generalisations are made bcz most of them are somewhat true.Women indeed have hive mind in something .Preselection is a proof of hive mind

Crafty_Letter_1719 · 2023-06-17T13:20:35+00:00

It’s impossible to discuss gender dynamics( which is essentially what this sub is about) without speaking in generalities. Of course every human being is a multifaceted individual and there is nuance to everything but you don’t need to qualify that every time you are trying to have a broad discussion.

resultsmatter1 · 2023-06-17T20:03:33+00:00

Women is not a monolith is a cop out posted on this board to overemphasize the minority argument. Like “nOt aLl wOmeN liKE cHaD. i LIke daD bODs 2!1!1!!”

FigSubstantial2175 · 2023-06-17T21:38:58+00:00

Women are a hive mind bro, if you ever meet one you'll learn

Academic-Principle14 · 2023-06-18T01:10:10+00:00

To answer the question in the title:

Because it’s easier than contextual analysis and most human beings are not capable of, truly, thinking critically.

Workaholiconew · 2023-06-20T00:53:54+00:00

Men arent a monolyth... but we share a biology body plan. So the only constant is our sexdrive.

Women without a doubt are a monolith. Out of their own device. Women cannot live apart from the social. They are willing cogs and servants of the social. So they move as a enormous single organism. And because they want to. Men cannot understand.

quadzillax · 2023-06-16T14:39:10+00:00

Yeah but a lot of men seem to fail at relationships for very similar reasons lol

Title	Men are not a monolith, women are not a monolith. What’s the value in engaging in absolutism?
Author	Easy-Awareness-8283
Upvotes	74
Comments	139
Date	June 16, 2023 2:02 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14axofj/men_are_not_a_monolith_women_are_not_a_monolith/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-are-not-a-monolith-women-are-not-a-monolith.1222529 https://theredarchive.com/post/1222529

Comments