Is idiocracy's prediction that poor/uneducated people will outbreed well-off/educated people true? Relatedly, are men who follow the socially-sanctioned rat race script beta, their caution breeding themselves out of existence? And does it even matter?

Nodoxxintoxin · 2019-09-13T02:39:32+00:00

https://qz.com/1125805/the-reason-the-richest-women-in-the-us-are-the-ones-having-the-most-kids/ “It’s one of the best-established relationships in economics: as women’s education and income levels go up, the number of children they have goes down.

But something happened to the American family over the last three decades: that downward slope became a U-turn. Women in families in the top half of the income spectrum are having more kids than their similar-earning counterparts did 20 years ago. Women from the very richest households are now having more children than those less-well off. Less than 28% of 40- to 45-year-old women in a household in any income bracket below $500,000 per year have three or more children, according to data from the 2011-2015 US Census, while 31.3% of families earning more than $500,000 do.”

prettygirl0816 · 2019-09-12T21:53:40+00:00

They may outbreed - but the well off/educated will still flourish. There will just be fewer. There is also the rarity of poor/uneducated people turning the table and setting the next generation in a different direction.

SunflowerBurst · 2019-09-13T00:46:51+00:00

Not Sure. Jk

It is true that high IQ UMC and up people will definitely overthink the consequences of their choices to have children, they will also buy into more doomsday scenarios and other scientism preaching that says it’s bad to have kids for whatever reasons, because people who have high intellectual capacity can be easily manipulated by people claiming to be experts. A lower IQ person is just like hmm sex feel good, what is condam?

Doesn’t mean the smart and higher class still will won’t flourish and dominate in society. And it won’t be as dramatic as in that movie.

throwawayhouseissue1 · 2019-09-12T22:20:26+00:00

Intelligence is an evolutionary dead end

couldbemage · 2019-09-13T01:21:30+00:00

Overall, every society has had a big surge in population after infant mortality dropped from traditional historic levels. Then a couple generations later the birthrate plummeted. This second part is already starting to happen in the third world.

So it looks like this is a problem that's correcting itself.

Galliend · 2019-09-13T00:04:50+00:00

I'm a total doom and gloom guy when it comes to the future, but this isn't it. IQ scores are rising, all over the world, not decreasing. See the Flynn Effect. The reality is that people are getting smarter over time.

When society crumbles, it won't be because of "intelligence".

LowCreddit · 2019-09-13T18:22:16+00:00

As funny as that scene is, it's only slightly correct. The real issue is that we have made it so much harder for stupid people to die. Air bags are almost unnecessary and can kill people who are too small or too old. The only reason for them is to save people who are too stupid to buckle a very cheap and effective seat belt. Each year, we save and feed thousands of children from addicts. In times past, these children would have died instead of living on to be future criminals and addicts. The list goes on and on. The problem isn't smart people not reproducing(although this is an issue). The problem is we spend massive amounts of money trying to save stupid people from themselves.

reluctantly_red · 2019-09-12T21:10:12+00:00

I'm doing my part to prevent this. I have four biological kids (that I know about). I also have three university degrees.

KrispyMcSockington · 2019-09-13T01:25:29+00:00

Not quite. The smart ones will always find a way to exploit the not so smart ones.

All those betas who are hard working are not necessarily smart, just like people who run corporations, governments and religions aren't necessarily good.

The pyramid scheme we call an economy is also the same thing we use as a power structure in society. The few, smart ones at the top exploit those below them. They are okay with more dumb people around making more dumb babies. We're just giving them an abundance of 'resources' to exploit.

It also works to add more pressure at the bottom as we fight over scraps. Example: the three richest men in Africa have 40% of it's wealth. There are a billion people competing for the remaining 60%. Do you honestly think those rich guys would be okay with having fewer wage slaves, less competitive wages and a smaller, smarter populace that shares it's wealth and cares for each other?

Fuck, no! Put sex all over the media, such as popular songs and movies. Stimulate them perpetually for profit so they make more babies and if they don't? Sell them sex through brothels and porn. There's no downside. If they won't procreate, open your nation's doors to dark skinned immigrants who will have tons of kids today and who will eventually become the slaves of tomorrow.

angels-fan · 2019-09-13T02:03:42+00:00

Dumb does not mean low IQ.

Lots of dumb people are smart, but severely uneducated and socialised into thinking book lernin is for fags.

These people will have dumb, but decent IQ kids.

We just need to break the education cycle.

87AudreyHorne · 2019-09-13T08:57:17+00:00

I liked the premise of the movie. In reality it is a bit simplified but not that far off. First, I don't necessarily agree that the poor are always complete morons and the rich and educated are naturally highly intelligent, because upbringing really affects how your intelligence will be exhibited (for instance, you can be a low-impulse control, jargon speaking thief, and pretty high IQ you use mostly for illegal activities... and you can be average IQ well educated, phD holder who has vast knowledge to draw from and is well mannered).

So since IQ and some other traits are very complex genetically, i don't think that having the "bottom of the barrel" reproducing more will really bring down the overall IQ but it will affect the culture.

The thing is that despite what reddit thinks it is common sense to reproduce when you're well off and not when you're poor, that's actually wrong. People are inherently selfish. Today we pretend it's all about the kids, but keep in mind that caring for best interests of non existing kids doesn't make much sense - you create them if you think it's in best interest for you. And let's be objective, it makes more sense for the poor/uneducated.

In a modern western society, a child is ideally primarily a burden. People had children to they can send them to work, so they can support them when they're older, to build a clan. Now you have a child so you can spend money on it, give it tons of your time, and encourage it to have the best life possible for itself. For an educated person with a comfortable life, it is a significant drain on their lifestyle. They like the way they spend time, so this would ruin it. They like having money, this would make it harder. They like the way they look, they like the way they live, they think they have something of value to intellectually contribute, and a kid hurts all that.

On the other hand an uneducated poor person might as well have a kid. It costs money, but he/she has no money anyway so it will be wellfare or they'll make due - saving something small isn't really appealing. They might as well have more kids too so that the kids look after each other. They are not burdened by all kinds of studies about the perfect way to raise a child and anxiety, they have their own experiences to draw from. It doesn't significantly damage their time or take away their focus from things they find more important,soon enough the kids will help with chores. It doesn't significantly change their lifestyle. And if they have 5 kids, there's an off chance some of them might make more money one day. Plus these poor families where it's not all about the kid are maybe even more likely to have the kid actually support the elderly parents.

In non western countries with more relaxed laws even more so - young children can already work and support the household.

Does having descendants matter?

People forget that when it matters, it is when it has practical benefits to parents. It doesn't really to everyone. I never found any of more modern, abstract reasons to really be convincing.

[deleted] · 2019-09-13T18:44:09+00:00

Maybe, but only because they don’t know how to use contraception. Really though, IQ doesn’t matter, your looks do. In the movie, he was shown to be an attractive football star in his youth, and even when older he had a square jaw, just a little bloated. He was breeding more because he was attractive, not because he was a dummy.

NockerJoe · 2019-09-12T21:07:42+00:00

In a modern context intelligence and skill are almost entirely correlated to education and upbringing rather than any kind of inherent genetic superiority. You can get geniuses out of those kids provided they go to school and do their homework and have positive reinforcement. The problem always comes from stuff like overly large classrooms with underpaid and disinterested school staff.

Tomatoccino · 2019-09-13T02:10:58+00:00

It’s called a pyramid for a reason.

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2019-09-13T03:26:47+00:00

No, because genes don’t work like that. There’s more than enough variation in IQ to produce the geniuses who will save us while we resent them.

[deleted] · 2019-09-13T03:38:35+00:00

have you looked around you lately everyone is dumb as shit.

Sepean · 2019-09-13T10:02:27+00:00

The well-off people aren't having so many children that they're endangered. They're close to 2 per couple. They more of less maintain their numbers.

And since they don't mix much with those of lower socio-economic standing, there's little watering down of the genes for success.

What you'll see is that the elite stays much the same, while the lower classes grow larger.

LillthOfBabylon · 2019-09-13T12:11:12+00:00

So....is there any truth to this prediction, and what might be the implications?

No. It depends on your socio-economics. If idiocracy was a thing, we'd already be a population of morons, but we aren't. Alot of our problems stem from government institutions and technology, not parents.

DXBrigade · 2019-09-13T12:24:51+00:00

It has Always been that way.

nooblek · 2019-09-13T13:34:00+00:00

Here's a thought: What if that is still natural selection at work and it is still perfectly on course? Maybe the optimal human IQ for survival isn't a high one when its so prone to neuroses and insecurities. The whole idea is based on the assumption that a higher IQ is always better. Say there is a major disruption in society, the insecure nerds may not be able to provide stability by ruthlessly taking control.

Dunno, we always think we are above nature..

abaxeron · 2019-09-13T14:02:53+00:00

The falsehoold of Idiocracy's prediction lies here:

"Some had high hopes that genetic engineering would correct this trend in evolution, but sadly the greatest minds and resources were focused on conquering hair loss and prolonging erections."

"Scientists are bad/stupid/doing wrong things" is a popular way to add comedic effect to fiction. In reality, scientists have their priorities straight. "Designer babies" most likely will become a trend sooner than dumb people's r-selection strategy becomes an apocalyptic problem.

eboy4hire · 2019-09-13T15:10:14+00:00

And does it even matter?

This is the question that has boggled my mind for a while. I'm of the frame that either nothing matters, or, since our bodies seem built entirely for this purpose, it matters how many descendants we have. In reality there's probably no greater purpose for us and we can do whatever we want and the world won't mind. So, hmmm... just to be safe you can just impregnate every woman you can have sex with.

czerdec · 2019-09-13T16:27:52+00:00

It's a complex system. Certain there's a very strong correlation between lowered fertility and raised education. However it's not certain that all societies will react equally to the incentives that cause well-educated people to refuse to reproduce.

It is kind of interesting that in both China and Europe we have historical instances of people, Eunuchs and Churchmen who were unusually well educated, powerful and banned from fathering legitimate families.

Knowing things and having kids seems to be an either-or thing for many cultures.

Five_Decades · 2019-09-14T00:06:31+00:00

Yes its true. As has been mentioned multiple studies have found that a woman's level of education is negatively correlated with how many kids she has. And education is correlated with intelligence.

At the same time, geogrpahic variances in intelligence is also tied into fertility. Areas with high IQs like the west or east asia have low fertility rates while areas with lower IQs like sub saharan Africa have higher fertility rates. Virtually all the population growth of the 21st century will occur in Africa. At the start of the century the world had 7 billion people, it'll peak at about 10 billion. However Africas population will go from 1 billion to 4 billion. Basically the entire world overpopulation issue comes down to Africa.

So yeah. However, we are on the cusp of using bioengineering and technology to compensate for differences in IQ so it won't matter.

escapethesolarsystem · 2019-09-12T21:11:30+00:00

It is a well known phenomena that the human race is losing brain power and brain capacity and a well documented thing which is happening within our societies. However technology is increasing rapidly, and because of it we have more access to more information, even if we have slower processing power and less memory, our technology and processes make up for it in efficiency, and thus we overall do not lose so much knowledge.

about betas being breeded out? There is no scientific research about it, but yes, men which use provision to get partners are being "breed out" of human genome, in my opinion. They will never disappear, per see, as there is a need for them to maintain human society, but they surely gonna become rarer and rarer. Just never into idiocracy levels.

peterlongc · 2019-09-12T21:40:50+00:00

in the next hundred years: population controls, eugenics, genetic engineering

in the future: cloning, natural births become a thing of the past, man will probably find a way to merge his brain with the internet

low iq populations (countries) will be outcompeted and fade away

crackrocksteady7 · 2019-09-13T14:15:42+00:00

Female sexual selection is the idiocracy

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-09-12T21:09:00+00:00

Not at all. The population living in extreme poverty will continue to lift out that extreme poverty. Religious notions and pressures will continually diminish. Both of those trends will lower the overall birthdate.

The largest threat to the future of civilization is population collapse, not over-population.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1697884/jack-ma-and-elon-musk-are-worried-about-a-population-collapse/amp/

Modern welfare states require growing populations and economies to fund. Fuck, we cant even fund them now while currently growing.

[deleted] · 2019-09-13T10:09:15+00:00

Intelligent people statistically have fewer children for precisely the reasons given in that video. They think about the consequences of a significant decision. Idiots just forget to take the pill or don't use condoms.

However don't worry, the Chinese will take over before this becomes a real concern to society anyway. They have the highest IQ's in the world.

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