Seriously speaking, why does N-count even really matter?

a_mans_perspective · 2018-01-10T10:03:39+00:00

You're allowed to have insecurities. Why wouldnt you just let your partner sleep with other people if they are polyamorous but loyal? Logically there is no reason not to, but humans are insecure.

You're allowed to be insecure about sex, its built in. Sexual jealousy exists. Its instinctive, its irrational, and thats ok. Trying to be purely logical and "fair" about sex, n count, etc just leads to cuckoldry. Imo.

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2018-01-09T20:09:45+00:00

I'm a virgin with a virgin. N-count matters, because it signals someone's attitude towards sex and romance. You think a male or female with a high N count is going to want to take romance and dating slow?

A dating couple spends the night in a hotel room. The high N people would likely fuck, but us virgins? Whip out N64 and get the alcohol.

Dubslav_von_Chekem · 2018-01-09T22:27:06+00:00

Divorce risk goes up with more N.

That's bad.

Caring about N is a LTR thing, not a casual sex thing. Your concerns are a good list for sexytimes but marriage has many more factors.

xtsv · 2018-01-10T00:48:01+00:00

If you had a choice between an ice cream that was untouched and one that had 15 dicks in it which one would you pick.

larrythetomato · 2018-01-09T20:11:05+00:00

I question your experience in this matter. Because it is really different.

If you want casual sex, you don't want to be someone's first. There is a risk that they will get clingy, and they will definitely suck at sex.

[deleted] · 2018-01-09T21:33:57+00:00

Because some men are young and looking for a serious relationship. There really isn't a big "shaming movement" outside of this sub.

They just quietly choose not to seriously date these girls.

bakedpotato486 · 2018-01-09T22:01:20+00:00

It's negatively indicative of the ability to pair-bond. Do you really trust a woman who has cut short every relationship she's had to maintain a relationship with you? What's so special about you that she can't strip from you through divorce?

caesarfecit · 2018-01-09T20:06:36+00:00

Assuming they are of sound mind, compatible with you personality-wise, and free of disease, does it really matter if a woman has had 15+ partners or a man has had none?

N count is a predictive factor for those bad things, not a causative one.

(except for disease)

concacanca · 2018-01-09T22:48:03+00:00

Assuming they are of sound mind, compatible with you personality-wise, and free of disease, does it really matter if a woman has had 15+ partners or a man has had none?

I'm not a fan of equating a male virgin and a promiscuous woman. They are not the same. A man (or a woman for that matter) can gain the experience and skills in a committed relationship, a promiscuous person can't unexperience their relationships.

In the case above, wouldn't caring about N-count speak more about the judging person's insecurities over their self and social image than it does about the judged person's personal flaws?

That's a fairly loaded question and assumes an underlying scenario I think.

Here's my take:

There are basically only three reasons to care about a partners sexual history IMO:

1) if it suggests that you have been settled for. No one wants to be a chequebook whilst having shit sex. That's the classic BB that red pill talks about but I think it's more nuanced than that. If your prospective partner had gone through your whole social group you have to be asking why you are valued at the bottom of that pile, if she had a history of dating guys that are radically different to you you have to wonder what made the change and why you are only good enough for her now. Insecurity? Maybe. I call it self respect and knowing your worth.

2) if it suggests you aren't getting the best. People who have tried everything and know what they want from sex are fine but they have the power to pull up the ladder behind them and leave a less experienced partner unable to so that same experimentation. There is also nothing special about your sex life, no new ground broken or heights reached. She could be a Sherpa sure but you aren't really making the climb together. It's likely that the 'special' parts of the relationship to a high n partner (and im going only off the accounts of those I know) are non sexual but to have a high n they must have had the opportunities to have those relationships in the past and not made it work.

3) if it suggests totally different values. This is the key one for me. Lots of people see sex as just sex whereas others see it as the physical manifestation of love. These are not particularly compatible. The type of person to sleep around tends toward the first group (though they will claim that relationship sex is better).

Yes I have rejected a woman for being slutty (2 actually) though it was more on me than her. I just realised that I wouldnt enjoy it (due to 3) and didn't want to lead her on.

reformedorbiter · 2018-01-09T21:36:50+00:00

We all have insecurities. Why should an n-count judger be shamed for having those insecurities?

Merger-Arbitrage · 2018-01-09T20:42:06+00:00

Assuming they are of sound mind, compatible with you personality-wise, and free of disease, does it really matter if a woman has had 15+ partners or a man has had none?

Assuming all of that, it might not matter. In the real world, it usually say things about them and their potential as a partner. Someone has already covered that higher partner counts (for men and women) correlate with higher divorce rates. Causation is irrelevant.

Additionally, I'll re-post my old post about why it might be prudent to avoid high partner count men or women:

Why avoid high partner count history women? (This could be directed at men to some extent as well, in some cases with gender-specific variations due to differences in how genders approach dating).

A) Potentially brings a smorgasbord of toxic baggage from her past, sometimes quite literally (STIs, exes, emotional/psychological damage)

B) Her inability to maintain previous relationships (assuming she had any) can suggest something is off about her that I might find out about at the worst possible time

C) Data on marital infidelity suggests that women with more premarital partners have higher infidelity rates

Certain qualities about her could lead to her having acquired a high partner count relative to the population median (largely due to serial monogamy or casual relationships). The concern is what caused the high partner count - not what the high partner count caused. Some possibilities:

1) Uninterested in / does not value a serious relationship, so goes through multiple casual ones (questionable change of interest to LTRs)

2) Was seeking casual sex for/due to codependence/validation/attention/power (impulsive, weak minded, low-value and/or compensating for something that's lacking)

3) Engaged in casual sex while under the influence (impulsive, lack of self control, irresponsible)

4) Interested in a serious relationship, but not a quality partner herself (low value, gets dumped)

5) Interested in a serious relationship, but unable to hold down men (attracts-and-dumps low value men, probably low value herself)

6) Interested in a serious relationship, but got used for casual sex repeatedly, didn't learn her lesson (not very smart)

7) Interested in a serious relationship, but bounced through partners because she had no clue what she as looking for and didn't vet partners enough before getting sexual and/or commiting (maybe she still hasn't figured it out - higher odds of future break up)

A high partner count brings about a higher chance of all of the negative qualities listed above, indicatory of negative personality/character traits.

In the case above, wouldn't caring about N-count speak more about the judging person's insecurities over their self and social image than it does about the judged person's personal flaws?

Only if the person judging can't justify their judgment.

Taipanshimshon · 2018-01-09T20:27:24+00:00

past acts is often a predictor of future actions

not always, but enough to be aware of

TheChemist158 · 2018-01-09T22:22:02+00:00

Speaking about my own personal aversion here. A high N count man implies we don't share similar values towards sex. Also, there is an ick factor where I just find it kinda gross.

In the case above, wouldn't caring about N-count speak more about the judging person's insecurities over their self and social image than it does about the judged person's personal flaws?

My aversion doesn't have to be from insecurities or social images. But it does speak to my own values and outlook if you want to flip it around.

[deleted] · 2018-01-09T23:12:33+00:00

People are allowed to want someone with the same sexual experience as them.

caesarfecit · 2018-01-09T20:23:16+00:00

My motto is simple: "I don't care how many people someone sleeps with, I care about the why".

And that applies to men as well as women.

Littleknownfacts · 2018-01-09T20:43:03+00:00

N count is a predictor of future possible behavior. Slut tells are an indicator of n count. Low RMV behaviors are slut tells.

It's just basic screening and vetting with extra steps.

ifeelfuckingterrible · 2018-01-09T20:45:42+00:00

compatible with you personality-wise

Are you suggesting that partner count doesn't say anything about their personality? Most guys who care about how may guys a girl has slept with aren't the type to go out partying and clubbing for example, while most girls with a high partner count are.

[deleted] · 2018-01-09T21:06:35+00:00

compatible with you personality-wise

this is sort of where the problem arises, though (depending on how you define personality). a person's preferences and views are parts of their personality, so even if they mesh really well with someone x, y, z ways, the a, b, c ways that they clash or don't mesh in still matter and have the potential to be dealbreakers.

i wouldn't want to be with a high-N guy because it speaks to a difference in how we view intimacy, which is central to a romantic relationship. it's not just insecurity or concern over social image that causes someone to avoid high-N partners, nor is it necessarily even an indication of the high-N person's flaws.

of course, some people here do take it to extremes and act like someone with a high-N count must must must be a terrible disgusting person, which is ridiculous (and there's some silliness when high-N men demand low/no-N women because only female promiscuity is the revolting horrible shameful kind). but just the general interest in being with someone who isn't high-N, i get it.

AstuteBlackMan · 2018-01-09T23:58:59+00:00

Man with high n-count=attractive Woman with high n count=slut

Women with low n count=attractive Man with low n count=insecure

[deleted] · 2018-01-10T04:17:56+00:00

I think we been through this already millions of times. N count matters. And the reasons behind it yet there are still non-believers somehow who sound like... Why Newton's physics matter when we have Einstein.

Kralee · 2018-01-10T04:24:47+00:00

N count should matter to people looking for a long term relationship. Here is why:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/more-sexual-partners-unhappy-marriage_n_5698440.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2540009/Women-sleep-university-likely-depressed.html

http://public.psych.iastate.edu/ccutrona/psych592a/articles/Sexual%20infidelity%20in%20women.pdf

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2733220/Women-don-t-sleep-wedding-happier-marriages-men-play-field-without-worry-study-finds.html

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sex-murder-and-the-meaning-life/201401/how-many-premarital-sex-partners-should-you-have

http://i.imgur.com/rrLe319.jpg

http://www.statisticbrain.com/percent-of-female-infidelity-based-on-number-of-premarital-partners/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201304/the-lingering-psychological-effects-multiple-sex-partners

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-01-09T20:09:47+00:00

does it really matter if a woman has had 15+ partners

More exes that she might miss or might come calling after an argument

wtknight · 2018-01-09T20:18:34+00:00

Assuming they are compatible with me personality-wise, sure. I doubt that a high N-count woman would be compatible with me personality wise, however.

alreadyredschool · 2018-01-09T20:30:28+00:00

Can you define red flag for me?

ayovita · 2018-01-09T21:26:59+00:00

If it didn’t matter both sexes wouldn’t lie about it so much, albeit for different reasons.

Entropy-7 · 2018-01-10T01:19:09+00:00

There is a fairly solid statisical corelation between a woman's n-count and the instability of their romantic relationships. In terms of girlfriends, I never really cared about their history. However, if you are a betting man, bet on those with a low count, like between 1 and 3.

SkookumTree · 2018-01-10T01:49:47+00:00

Yes, it matters. Views on sex, relationships, and even life are likely to be different. For example, virgins of both sexes are more likely to be inhibited, introverted, and future-oriented, while people with high n-counts will tend to be more extroverted and free-spirited.

TheBookOfSeil · 2018-01-10T03:23:19+00:00

I'm not sure about the biological aspect of N-count, but as someone already mentioned, it relates to a person's attitude about sex. If they're sleeping with anyone and everyone they can, it might signal a potential issue that one person has. To illustrate, I have a friend who grew up not knowing her father. Her mother was drunk at a party one night and... you get the picture. Didn't know who the father was. She grew up without him and her N-count is higher then her age (she's about 25). I'm not exactly sure if the two are related but something tells me that they are, which is why I suggest that if you're going to look for someone, look for someone with the same or similar attitude about sex as you do (and by no means am I saying that people with high N-counts and potential problems cannot or will not end up in a happy relationship).

newName543456 · 2018-01-10T07:48:01+00:00

It matters if you are looking for LTRs/marriage as probability of lasting several years together goes down with it.

If you only do casual stuff, it doesn't.

daveofmars · 2018-01-10T14:24:11+00:00

Seriously speaking, what a person values in their partner is completely subjective and no one else's business, including valuing low N count.

Let's turn it around on you. Why do you care that other people care about other people's N counts? What insecurities do you hold by trying to make N count not a thing?

I know plenty of men and women who don't care about N count, and plenty of men and women who do. What's it to you?

RockinSocksII · 2018-01-09T20:36:04+00:00

Because insecure people feel like they're competing with past lovers.

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-01-09T20:11:14+00:00

An average woman can rack up a 300 n count if she was so inclined. I mean, what n-count number do I have to reach to get you to admit that a high n count woman is often incompatible?

Furthermore, she would be signaling loose morals. She is not holding herself to a high principle of proper conduct. And it is natural for us to shame people who break social norms.

Lastly, male insecurities certainly play a part. But I don't think that is what is going on when men say "eww gross, sluts."

[deleted] · 2018-01-09T20:12:30+00:00

It doesn't matter. Worrying about N-count is useless bullshit.

Only reason to ever care is if you're religious and want a similarly religious partner who has waited until marriage before having sex.

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washington_breadstix · 2018-01-09T20:29:54+00:00

It only really matters if the people in a relationship think it matters. The problem is the jealousy issues bound to arise when dating someone with a high N-count or, more frequently, when a low-N person is trying to have a relationship with a high-N person.

They are bound to disagree on what the act of sex innately communicates. The high-N person likely sees it as a fun, easy way to party and get off while the low-N person thinks of its a precious act reserved for those in love. The low-N person specifically is more likely to be satisfied with someone who shares his/her viewpoint and has demonstrated it in his/her previous dating habits.

[deleted] · 2018-01-09T20:40:57+00:00

does it really matter if a woman has had 15+ partners or a man has had none?

It matters far, far, more if a man has had no partners at an age like 20-22, or say early twenties. The man is likely not going to be sexually experienced or bold in bed.

holographicrabbit · 2018-01-09T20:42:46+00:00

When men find high n-count unattractive, it tends to be for prerational reasons. It's a knee-jerk disgust reaction, which won't be mitigated even by consciously knowing that it "doesn't matter." I'm not saying that all men care about n-count, because that certainly hasn't been my experience, but I don't think you will be reasoning people out of their low-n preferences any time soon.

Alternatively, people who place a high value on personal chastity will likely seek that trait out in others. High-n people tend to date other high-n people.

the_calibre_cat · 2018-01-09T21:12:30+00:00

Validation, mostly.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2018-01-09T21:34:20+00:00

I agree with you 100% and my fiance shares the same sentiment. He's got an N of 2 and mines in the 15 range and were compatible, sexually and otherwise.

Anyway I'm pretty sure our Ns don't matter. It's being committed to eachother that matters. A guy not being "the best" in bed is kind of irrelevant, because most people aren't comparing their sex lives to their previous ones. They're just asking themselves if they're getting what they need out of it. That doesn't really have a strong dependency on previous experiences. You can know sex isn't great even if you've only done it with one person because you'll feel underwhelmed by it. I do think having some experience yields net benefits since you're not having to learn as much , like for example what you personally like and do not like.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-01-09T22:06:55+00:00

Nothing matters in some Cosmic sense. It matters to some people and to those people there's no argument you can make to change their minds, because it is not necessarily an intellectual preference

Menurotica · 2018-01-10T00:24:25+00:00

Because there are some people who don't want to be with virgins.

TrueRustyShackleford · 2018-01-10T00:46:48+00:00

Assuming they are of sound mind [...]

Assuming the road is empty, what's the big deal about drunk driving...

Promiscuous women usually have issues, and even if they don't, they're usually not the type to put in the effort required to deal with the inevitable rough patches of a serious relationship.

This sounds horribly sexist but it is true in my experience, and it's a bit less sexist when you consider the same is usually true for extremely promiscuous men and older virgin men.

wouldn't caring about N-count speak more about the judging person's insecurities

Even if that's true, why are you implying that's wrong? You can kill any discussion by just shouting "sinecurity" to shame the other person... If you don't want to go over the top of your trench towards the enemy machine gun fire you could technically call that "insecurity", but is it actually cowardly or wrong? I would argue no.

DashneDK2 · 2018-01-10T01:16:46+00:00

it doesn't matter very much. But all else being the same, a low count is better than a high count. A virgin is better than a slut. Other parametres are much more important though.

reluctantly_red · 2018-01-10T10:45:52+00:00

Before we got married my ex asked me how many women I'd slept with. I actually didn't know immediately -- had to write them down on a legal pad. I was adding to the list for several weeks as I remembered girls I hadn't thought about for over 20 years. Turns out I'm a bit of a tramp. Given this fact I wasn't in much of a position to complain about her N-count (13).

Regardless N-count doesn't really seem that important. My first wife's N-count was only 1 yet she had many of the same issues that plagued my second wife. But then again perhaps I'm attracted to a certain type of crazy.

[deleted] · 2018-01-10T19:01:31+00:00

I’ve never been a guy who cares what people think of me in public. I wouldn’t marry a high N girl. So I think it’s deeper than your analysis

Imo it has to do with feeling like sole owner

Red and Blue guys who are actively avoid LTRs or are against LTRs wont ever understand because the meat market is how you get yours

Willow-girl · 2018-01-11T16:28:13+00:00

It does, but people should keep in mind that all N-counts are not created equal! The defiant preacher's daughter who lets the football team run a train on her, and the girl who grew up with the Rainbow People or in some similar free-love commune, may both have high N-counts but for entirely different reasons.

despisedlove2 · 2018-01-12T06:35:33+00:00

No one can tell you why.

What research tells us is that women with more than 2 partners prior to the guy they marry carry a 40% higher risk of divorce.

This correlation is very strong, politically incorrect and utterly vital for men to be aware of.

Which is why BP'ers always whine about it.

[deleted] · 2018-01-09T21:00:40+00:00

Assuming they are of sound mind, compatible with you personality-wise, and free of disease, does it really matter if a woman has had 15+ partners or a man has had none?

There's your problem. You can't just assume they're sound of mind. 15+ for a young woman and 0 for a man who's past 21 are red flags that necessitate further analysis of your potential partner's history.

[deleted] · 2018-01-09T22:34:35+00:00

If it really doesn't matter, why do women lie theirs down and men lie theirs up?

Answer: Because it does matter. No man wants to commit to a slut. No man with options will give everything he is to a woman who has given everything SHE is to everyone else.

No woman is sexually attracted to a man who can't get a woman to have sex with him. She figures "well, if no one else wanted to fuck him, why should I fuck him?"

It's not the woman's N that matters. It's the fact that somewhere in there was a guy who really, REALLY tripped her trigger, who pushed all her buttons juuuuust right. It's the fact that she's going to inevitably compare you to her past lovers. It's the fact that she couldn't get one of those hotter guys to commit to her, and she's with you because she settled. It's the fact that you're not going to get her best - she already gave that to the hotter guys, and you're not as hot as they are, so she sees you as "not worthy". It's the fact that experience doesn't necessarily equate to skill.

WhiskersNT · 2018-01-09T21:16:37+00:00

Why would anyone want to seriously date a Virgin lmfao

N	Div. Rate	Pop. Prev.
0	5%	11.8%
1	20%	21.4%
2	30%	10.9%
3	25%	9.6%
4-5	25%	18.2%
6-9	25%	13.3%
10+	35%	14.8%

N	Div. Rate	Pop. Prev.	Population	Married	Divorced
0	5%	11.8%	118,227	112,315	5,911
1	20%	21.4%	213,793	171,034	42,759
2	30%	10.9%	109,360	76,552	32,808
3	25%	9.6%	95,567	71,675	23,892
4-5	25%	18.2%	182,266	136,700	45,567
6-9	25%	13.3%	133,005	99,754	33,251
10+	35%	14.8%	147,783	96,059	51,724

	Decide to Marry		Refuse to Marry		ACC	TPR	FPR
N_marry	Married (TP)	Divorce (FP)	Married (FN)	Divorce (TN)	(TP+TN)/pop	TP/(TP+FN)	FP/(FP+TN)
	0	0	764,089	235,911	76%	0%	0%
0	112,315	5,911	651,773	230,000	66%	15%	3%
1	283,350	48,670	480,739	187,241	53%	37%	21%
2	359,901	81,478	404,187	154,433	49%	47%	35%
3	431,576	105,369	332,512	130,542	44%	56%	45%
4-5	568,276	150,936	195,813	84,975	35%	74%	64%
6-9	668,030	184,187	96,059	51,724	28%	87%	78%
10+	764,089	235,911	0	0	24%	100%	100%

Title	Seriously speaking, why does N-count even really matter?
Author	DocNMarty
Upvotes	12
Comments	182
Date	January 9, 2018 8:03 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7p9st5/seriously_speaking_why_does_ncount_even_really/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/seriously-speaking-why-does-n-count-even-really.264071 https://theredarchive.com/post/264071

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