Q4WOMEN: As your cruise ship sinks, and the captain yells, "Women and children first," do you raise your voice about equality?

madscientistlove · 2017-11-23T23:46:08+00:00

If yes, would you leave your male friend / husband / boyrfriend behind or raise your voice and demand he be treated equally?

Of course I would raise the world's biggest fuss and try to get my husband on the boat. Of course I care about my family than some stranger women I don't know.

MoodyAres · 2017-11-23T22:10:16+00:00

Karen Straughan once said: under Patriarch we got "Women and children first", under Matriarchy we would get "Women, children, and women's luggage and belongings first"

haunting-you · 2017-11-24T02:27:54+00:00

i throw myself off the ship in defiance every single time.

Alth12 · 2017-11-24T02:36:49+00:00

I would be too busy being gobsmacked that anybody yelled that in the first place. I have no idea why there is this conception that gallant men stayed behind to drown while women and children were herded into lifeboats. There were a lot of shipwrecks in the 19th century, and in nearly every single one, women and children were the ones most likely to die. Men booked it off that ship and left women and children behind to die. (Edit: And the reason that men were more likely to survive is that most ships did not have lifeboats, most women couldn't swim, and most women weren't willing to save themselves and leave their children to die. If the only option was to swim for it, men were the ones most able and willing to do so.)

Several years ago, the Philadelphia Museum of Art had an excellent exhibit on contemporary portrayals of 19th century shipwrecks, and noted quite clearly that men were far more likely to survive. The exhibit was centered around a painting by Winslow Homer, sensational at the time, of a man rescuing a woman from a shipwreck. It was sensational for several reasons; the first, of course, was the fact that total strangers were pressed so physically close together. (The models for the painting were a brother and sister, I believe.) The second was that such a rescue was even possible; the lifeline of the title was new technology at the time and much lauded. The third was that a man was going back to save a woman in the first place. This event was uncommon enough to be noteworthy.

Grizzlybear_Nobility · 2017-11-24T02:14:29+00:00

Tbh I wouldn't really give a crap about the sexes and would just want my family to board first.

[deleted] · 2017-11-24T03:13:46+00:00

The custom has never been observed. It's a figment of collective Hollywood imagination.

The actual custom has always been, "People with money first. You poor motherfuckers can freeze and drown."

EDIT: If it were me or my SO, I'd pick my SO every time. Not because of gender equality or anything dumb like that, but because I don't want to outlive him. A strange man? He can go kick rocks.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2017-11-23T20:57:32+00:00

Well if someone says to me either you both die, or you live and he dies, I'm like 90% sure unless the man is the love of my life I'll choose myself. I'll be gripped with guilt for a long time. I'd prefer to come up with solution where we both live.

TheoremaEgregium · 2017-11-23T21:39:42+00:00

You've never been on a cruise ship, I bet. They do an evacuation drill on every cruise.

the custom is still observed today: The captain yells, "Women and children first!"

Haha, no! That's bullshit.

LifterofThings · 2017-11-23T23:14:46+00:00

idk, this would be tough. I'd fight the shit out of the system for my husband, and ultimately I would prefer to save my kid and stay with my husband... but I suspect he'd knock me over the head with something heavy and toss me on the boat with the kids.

Ordinate1 · 2017-11-23T21:27:49+00:00

It's a myth, actually:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_children_first

"As a code of conduct, "women and children first" has no basis in maritime law."

goatismycopilot · 2017-11-24T00:38:00+00:00

Whoever I am with is my concern, everybody else is going to do exactly the same.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-11-23T21:28:58+00:00

my husband would help save me or insist i save myself and then hed try to save himself, and if i disobeyed him and tried to stay with him hed get mad at me and yell at me

edit: i cant understand why this would get downvoted

GridReXX · 2017-11-24T17:08:39+00:00

I don’t think this is a thing. Outside of Titanic the movie.

Here’s who survives:

People with money.
Scrappy people with survival instinct.
Beautiful women who endear a man’s protection.
elderly folks who endear those around them
and children. Most women and men are going to feel protective of most children.

The rest are SOL.

pinkgoldrose · 2017-11-23T21:32:45+00:00

First mistake: the ticket wasn't free, my male friend expected sex, so I clarified things and paid for my own ticket.

Of course I raise my voice for gender equality. I'm all for saving the children, but the men and women should get equal priority. Not just for my friend, for all men on board.

I'd offer to stay back and see if there's enough rafts for everyone. If someone's gotta die, why not me.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2017-11-24T15:25:27+00:00

Ofc I fcking do put myself first. Males be sayin' "wimminz are children", so duh.

Butt-Factory · 2017-11-23T22:38:11+00:00

That's not a real thing that happens. I hope you know that.

But just to humor you, my priorities would be

Children
Me/ my family
Everyone else.

RockinSocksII · 2017-11-24T04:57:35+00:00

I don't care about anyone else except me and my own.

Also, the last time I was on a cruise, the procedure is that everyone would file up based on what area of the ship their room was in.

handklap · 2017-11-23T22:42:06+00:00

One thing I've noticed in the "we demand equality" mantra is how it is finally and very slowly applying this to themselves.

For example, when a large % of women were SAHMs, the urban legend was that it was "the hardest job in the world" (cue Bill Burr) where men have no idea how hard her job managing the house really is. Commercials, movies like Mr. Mom, Three Men and a Baby, etc all reinforce this falsehood. Men who dared to challenge this were met with harsh criticism. Plus, there was always very little appreciation for the sacrifices the man had to make slaving away all day at work while the 'oppressed' woman has to stay at home with the kids.

Fast forward to today and most women, and most mothers, have no choice but to work (welcome to the party). These women are now figuring out what men have known all along: sacrificing your soul to meet the demands of your provider status can be fucking horrible. Long commutes. Taking promotions you might not want. Relocating to a place you don't want to be. Endless stress. Early death. So now when these same SAHMs try the same "hardest job in the world" line, they get shot down instantly by other women who only now and for the first time view this arrangement as the luxury that it has always been. And many of them, especially single moms, will even shame them a bit, "gold digger", "so selfish of you to put all the burden on your husband", "lazy", etc.

We've come full circle.

Women entering the workforce finally, and for the first time, is showing appreciation for the sacrifices of being the breadwinner and finally, for the first time, women are acknowledging that staying at home is a luxury.

TheWhitestOrca · 2017-11-24T02:31:11+00:00

I’m a man, and I would want whatever keeps me alive regardless of equality, so this is kind of a dumb question.

funobtainium · 2017-11-24T01:19:28+00:00

I'd prioritize children and their parents first.

I don't have kids so I wouldn't want some little kid orphaned because his dad drowned.

As someone over 45, I'd also prioritize an 18 year old man over me - they haven't had a chance to live yet. Also, my parents are dead so they wouldn't be mourning me - it has to be awful to lose a child.

A bunch of single guys my age? I guess we could flip coins or whatnot.

Edit: if my husband was there he'd try to save me, and vice versa, but he'd want to be remembered doing something heroic so he'd give up his spot for me if there were two spots. We've had this hypothetical discussion about airplane terrorists, as you do.

Willow-girl · 2017-11-24T13:26:08+00:00

I would hope that in such a situation, I'd be too busy helping younger and frailer people into the lifeboats to pay any attention to the captain.

Electra_Cute · 2017-11-23T22:11:17+00:00

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DemonConsulting · 2017-11-23T22:31:42+00:00

I'm not leaving my husband that's for sure - I don't give a shit about anyone else on the boat, male or female, but me and my family are getting the hell off there. If it means I have to personally shove some other bitch off the life boat to make space, so be it.

Honestly I'd rather be the one left behind to die instead of having to watch my husband drown. But then again drowning in ice cold water doesn't sound appealing either soooo good thing neither of us sees any appeal in cruise ships in the first place.

tardisgroaning · 2017-11-24T05:08:55+00:00

I think everyone's thought of this kind of situation if they had to watch Titanic. (It's interesting to research Titanic, don't get me wrong, just don't want to deal with the Kate-Leo shit in the movie.)

I don't have kids but I'd think the general rule should be, "children and parents first". Keep the family unit together. Gender doesn't matter. The rest of us are single and don't have any dependents that are going to grow up parent-less.

I would be extremely upset at the idea of being separated from family and friends, and panicking about their safety from the start. I'd want to see my younger siblings safe before I hopped onto any rescue boat. I think I'd be one of those people who refused to be separated from their close ones. That was a big issue when they tried to get people onto rescue boats with Titanic - people didn't want to be separated from their family, and this seemed paramount because no one can immediately internalize the idea that they're all going to drown. ("But we're dry and on a big unsinkable ship, we're fine right now... we need to stick together! Where's Mum/my husband/my boyfriend/my kid" etc.)

Of course this is all hypothetical. You know it would be utter fucking chaos. And the chance of anyone ending up in Hot Pie's position is pretty slim, since he's only alive because the writers knows book fans love him. In reality that brutal Lannister army would have eaten him LONG ago.

abaxeron · 2017-11-24T13:17:49+00:00

Worst truth to find out via online surveying. People don't act as they say they would act when the disaster actually happens.

rulenumber303 · 2017-11-24T16:23:49+00:00

Although it's not encoded in international maritime law, the custom is still observed today: The captain yells, "Women and children first!

I don't think that happens so much as you think it does.

However I'm pretty sure (as in haven't looked it up but I've never been told or heard different) that maritime law puts the ship's captain in charge of a bunch of stuff including emergency evacuations, and that in an emergency in international waters he's almost like a little king in terms of powers to make sure the ship or its people survive. I mean just saying, if I'm fucking up the Captain's plan (whatever that is) it isn't beyond the realms of possibility I'll get ordered thrown overboard and not a single consequence will be suffered by the Captain as a result because when he gets back to port he'll just explain I was interfering with the evacuation. So I ain't even going to think about saying anything unless my SO starts first and I see whether he gets thrown overboard. Sorry dude, if it is your arse on the line and you can't be bothered, don't expect me to put my arse on the line.

However if I was on a hiring panel for a cruiselines, I would oppose any applicant who showed any form of sexism, including benevolent sexism.

HarpyMaster · 2017-11-24T23:43:16+00:00

I save myself, of course. I can always find a better man.

Manhater666 · 2017-11-24T23:48:18+00:00

Do you abide by your principles of gender equality (assuming you hold such principles) or grab a kid and make for the nearest life boat?

Fuck the man, Im out.

If yes, would you leave your male friend / husband / boyrfriend behind or raise your voice and demand he be treated equally?

Leave behind, I've had enough of them.

Do you spare a thought for the men dying behind you?

Kinda, if being happy they are no more counts.

ffbtaw · 2017-11-25T00:18:58+00:00

A better question is would you advocate for a strange women over a strange man?

condorama · 2017-11-25T12:31:57+00:00

Society has taught me to value the lives of women over my own. I wouldn’t fuss about the woman and children going first. Although I’d want some chick at my wake to admit that women are valued above men in society.

rathyAro · 2017-11-24T03:06:39+00:00

Just saying if they say "men first" a whole lotta hoes about to die.

ifelsedowhile · Thu Nov 23 22:40:35 2017 UTC

lots of comments dodging the question because many women are uncomfortable with admitting they have certain advantages over men after being sold for all their life they are horribly oppressed lol.

Title	Q4WOMEN: As your cruise ship sinks, and the captain yells, "Women and children first," do you raise your voice about equality?
Author	nomadic-one
Upvotes	35
Comments	169
Date	November 23, 2017 8:53 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7f2h29/q4women_as_your_cruise_ship_sinks_and_the_captain/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4women-as-your-cruise-ship-sinks-and-the-captain.264751 https://theredarchive.com/post/264751

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