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[–]companyofwolvesFDS Newbie 164 points165 points166 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why did they give the villain these lines?
Because this movie was directed by a man (Stephen Herek) and written by a man (John Hughes, oddly enough).
[–]pikkpieFDS Newbie 406 points407 points408 points 5 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
Hmmm media always portray the villian(lady in this case) to be confident and assertive. 🙄
[–]nenindisFDS Newbie 201 points202 points203 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm so glad I'm not the only one noticing this! Women in media who are confident, whose opinions differ from the norm, who have clearly defined personalities are often, in my experience, written off as villains or antagonists.
Meanwhile, the humble, not sure of herself and her own perceptions, co-dependent woman who exists usually to further develop a man character is often put on the side of the good guys.
I see it as yet another way of spreading the message that not being your own person is how "good women" should be like. Then, if you truly emulate these characters in real life, you won't be respected, you're likely to end up in abusive relationships and toxic environments, people take advantage of you. You can't win!
[–]HostileovariesFDS Apprentice 292 points293 points294 points 5 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
They also spit some wisdom that gets overlooked because they're the villain.
Ursula, the little mermaid, "A woman doesnt know how precious her voice is until shes silenced."
Regina Mills, Once upon a Time, "Evil doesn't always look evil. Sometimes it's staring right at us, and we don't even realize it."
Mother Gothel, Tangled, "The world is dark and selfish and cruel. If it finds even the slightest ray of sunshine. It destroys it."
Lady Macbeth, Macbeth, "Look like the innocent flower, But be the serpent under ‘t."
[–]superderpina_FDS Newbie 68 points69 points70 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
These make awesome motives for embroidery!
[–]GordaFarid1221 64 points65 points66 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Besides wasn't Ursala ment to be the heir of the throne until her little brother was suddenly born?
[–]spinsterchachkiesFDS Disciple 21 points22 points23 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ursula is a true Queen! Until she did that shady backstab shit at the end and got killed by a boat.
[–]jargon_explosionFDS Newbie 149 points150 points151 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Hell, Ursula's whole song is one big jab at men and how they don't give a damn about women except for how they look.
"You've got your looks. Your pretty face. And don't forget the importance of body language. The men up there don't like a lot of blabber. They think a woman who gossips is a bore. Yes on land it's much preferred for ladies not to say a word, come on now what is idle bridle for? They're not all that impressed with conversation. True gentlemen avoid it when they can."
[–]SpicyScroteRoasteryFDS Newbie 58 points59 points60 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Damn, I feel like I need to rewatch the parts with her in it.
[–]_laufaesonFDS Newbie 53 points54 points55 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ursula is a whole ass mood.
[–]ThrowawayCompassionFDS Newbie 67 points68 points69 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I was in love with the movie when I was a little girl. I hadn’t seen it since I was maybe 12 and I rewatched it in my 30s and was just... shocked. Lol. this??? Is the movie I loved?? Ariel is the ultimate pickme, the whole thing was so cringe. Ursula was the best part and I LOVED her role watching it this time in my 30s. She’s an absolute unit and didn’t really do anything wrong, Ariel did. But guess who saves the day in the end? A man of course, her father who grants her genitalia body parts she wanted so badly... it’s a creepy movie!
[–]jargon_explosionFDS Newbie 61 points62 points63 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It was also one of my favorites, I've watched it countless times. I knew all the songs by heart. That one and Aladdin. Though granted Disney songs are real good and catchy.
It's weird rewatching things you loved as a kid and noticing all this extra stuff. The Little Mermaid was especially bad. It reminds me of a Tweet someone screencapped to post here at some point where a woman said: "Men will talk about themselves to a woman for ten minutes straight and be like "wow I really like you'". That's the essence of the whole movie. They somehow manage to fall in love with neither of them knowing anything about each other. But of course only Ariel sacrifices her family, her kingdom, her throne, etc. Despite the fact that he was a Prince of some nobody knows village and she was a Princess of the sea! The whole sea!
[–]bpoloanaFDS Newbie 15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I mean, to be fair Ariel didn't really give up her throne, she had like seven older sisters that would be on line for the throne before her
But that's not saying much, giving up your home and ability to ever return there and seeing your family and friends again is bad enough
[–]HostileovariesFDS Apprentice 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I was never a fan of the Little Mermaid, but the scene from Swan Princess always stuck with me. For context, the prince's mom organizes a ball with all the local princesses for him to select a bride. He selects a princess whose father has been making them spend their summers together. He made fun of her constantly, excluded her, etc. She shows up in to the ball and he is entranced by her beauty and yells for everyone to organize their marriage and then this scene happens.
It was definitely a big message to me as a kid and always tainted my viewings of Disney Princess movies, particularly for movies like the Little Mermaid where neither side truly knew each other before 'falling in love'.
[–]quirkypinkllamaFDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't remember that scene, but damn. It's true that men i think only want a beautiful woman. They will put up with bad treatment, a bad heart, irresponsibility, dramatic, etc from her, but hey, as long as she's hot!
[–]Inspection-CriticalFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Damn.
[–]srkambbs1FDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
I just realized Ariel was a pick me. She gave up her voice and family for a man? And I think in she kills herself self after he rejects her
[–]HostileovariesFDS Apprentice 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Seriously. Ariel gave up her family, the only world she's ever known (literally the entire fucking ocean), her voice (loaded metaphors in there), and had to fit into an alien world.
What did Prince Eric sacrifice in the long run? Nothing. If King Trident had the power to bestow legs to Ariel, wouldn't he also be able to give a fin to Eric? But nah, women have to change for men is so engrained in the whole disney culture
[–]srkambbs1FDS Newbie 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think the original story made it a tragedy that she sacrificed so much for a man but didn't get him, which is a better lesson. But disney had to make it a happy ending.
[–]HostileovariesFDS Apprentice 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
From a realistic life lesson to a pickmes dream. Sounds familiar
[–]GourmayFDS Apprentice 93 points94 points95 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It’s interesting that they’ve been humanizing these villains with live actions like Cruella that’s about to come out and Maleficent. Times are changing.. a little.
[–]ProtoetypeFDS Newbie 54 points55 points56 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
They started noticing that women have been relating to the female villains more than the princesses.
[–]GeorgerobertfrancisFDS Newbie 15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s why Disney did the whole Descendants thing. Except as usual, little girls were still finding the “bad guy” villains more relatable and likable than the pickme “good guy” villains, and so they just integrate them into the good guys afterwards in response without having an ounce of self awareness.
[–]Big-Respond8481FDS Newbie 70 points71 points72 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But it never works as good as the humanization of the Joker, who is praised by a loud crowd of awful men.
[–]randomgirlimokFDS Apprentice 96 points97 points98 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Forget having a career, society says you should quit your job and stay home with kids and be a slave to a man who will eventually leave you for his 20 yrs younger secretary
[–]TagTrogFDS Newbie 41 points42 points43 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And that's okay, because a good woman has no needs of her own, and uNdeRStaNds!
/s , obviously! Stay strong, queens!
[–]ScrappleSandwichesFDS Newbie 208 points209 points210 points 5 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
Is there any woman over 30 in the Disney universe who isn’t evil (or dead)?
[–]biceps_to_die_forFDS Newbie 145 points146 points147 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Is there any childless woman who isn't evil?
[+][deleted] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]biceps_to_die_forFDS Newbie 35 points36 points37 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, that's the point. Older, childless, female villains - examples immediately come to mind. But a neutral or even good character? You have to think about that for a bit.
[–]ScrappleSandwichesFDS Newbie 21 points22 points23 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I forgot about Mary! It’s pretty amazing they didn’t kill her or marry her off. Or the mother, that evil, selfish suffragette!
[–]GeorgerobertfrancisFDS Newbie 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s worth noting that Disney took a character that was a straight-up witch in the books and turned her into a sweet, maternal woman in this case. She was a mother by proxy in the film as well, while the real mother was cast in a neglectful light for being a “feminist.”
[–]WatzooFDS Newbie 23 points24 points25 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Or mothers who don’t get killed early on.
[–]Dexaroo5716FDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Muahaha 🦹♀️ child free and kickin it 😎
[–]GordaFarid1221 60 points61 points62 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Hmm wow this makes me think
I guess Rapunzel's mother
But tbh name me one Disney movie besides Brave where they show a mother-daughter relationship where the mother is neither evil, dead nor depicted as a "caretaking is easy and natural" personified.
[+][deleted] 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]ScrappleSandwichesFDS Newbie 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wow, I never thought about that. Probably not unique to Disney. Eg Vincent Price’s whole career.
[–]lansburysodaFDS Newbie 237 points238 points239 points 5 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
Of all the top films in the US in 2017, 83 percent had NO FEMALE WRITERS. Eighty. Three. Percent. That’s ZERO women!!
I don’t have to tell you who’s writing female characters like these. We already know, and we’re all so tired of it.
Meanwhile, 90 percent of k drama writers are women. No wonder the Korean film industry is blowing Hollywood out of the water.
[–]StalkerPoetessFDS Newbie 128 points129 points130 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes exactly. Kdramas can sometimes be cheesy but they seriously have more heart than american ones.
Also one of my favorite male Kpop groups' songs are routinely written by women for an audience of 80% women. Like no wonder they're successful, they know exactly how to play at my heartstrings because they're women. Honestly once I started to watch and read more women created media, I've been feeling much happier and less bored.
[–]thinktwiceorelseFDS Newbie 57 points58 points59 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I watch j-dramas and my personal favourites are with an older independent female lead. If I watch something really outstanding, I check who's the screenwriter, and of course in 99% of cases, it's a woman.
[–]motokos_ghostFDS Newbie 24 points25 points26 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
can you recommend your favorite j-drama's? i'm really looking to get into it.
[–]thinktwiceorelseFDS Newbie 16 points17 points18 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yes, sure! My absolute favourite is Kimi wa petto (the original version from 2003), not the remake from 2017, which I hated, and Long Vacation from 1997. They are older but the writing is amazing, much better than recent jdramas which follow cliche stories. Both screenwriters are women. And female leads, especially in Kimi wa petto are very well written characters.
[–]motokos_ghostFDS Newbie 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
thanks so much! =)
[–]OrcristaFDS Newbie 22 points23 points24 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Solidly on the kdrama train for a year now and no regrets!
[–]TheboredshrimpFDS Apprentice 27 points28 points29 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
me too! So far my favourite kdramas are: 1-extracurricular
2-because this is my first life
3-it's okay to not be okay
[–]OrcristaFDS Newbie 18 points19 points20 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Ooh, seen 2 out of three of those and really enjoyed them! Not keen on checking out extracurricular - just not a fan of that genre. Mine are too many to list but I'll pick 3:
Crash Landing On You (my first ever kdrama); Stranger; Flower of Evil.
The female gaze post from yesterday made me want to suggest 'Search WWW' for ladies who might be interested. That drama was female gaze writ large👌🏽
[–]imnotfitforexistenceThrowaway Account 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Oh my, can you please tell me why you like "Because this is my first life"?
Up to this day there is no drama ending I hate more than this one. I'd love to hear your opinion.
Edit: Spelling
[–]TheboredshrimpFDS Apprentice 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I love how the female mc knows what she wants,isn't afraid to speak her mind and follows her principles, I alos love how slow burn the romance was, I hate insta love. Why didn't you like it ?
[–]imnotfitforexistenceThrowaway Account 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In my opinion, both relationships shown in that drama were unhealthy.
*** SPOILER ALERT ***
The main couple: The female lead met the male lead, didn't like how he lives his life (he didn't want to spend a penny because he was paying for his expensive mortgage, didn't express his feelings properly, etc), got together with him anyway and tried to change his behaviour, which I already think is wrong, but oh well.
When they were already kinda dating, when he was already liking her, even though they already had agreed that when you love someone their past, present and future comes with them, she got jealous that his ex from 12 years ago showed up and instead of talking with him about that, or cleanly breaking up with him because maybe she didn't want to get involved in that, she simply runs away. She lied about going abroad to discover herself and instead stayed nearby to have her "Room #19" time.
In the mean time he sold his nice house because he couldn't stand remembering her all the time. He got broke and rented a rooftop. He cried and got drunk all the time because he missed her. Let's just remember that he never cheated on her or was even interested in his ex.
When main lead was done finding herself, she showed up at night, without a warning, even though they haven't contacted each other for many months, with a shi**y cake, entered his rooftop without knocking, lied in his bed as if nothing had happened and witnessed the wreck he had become. After he cried again she had the audacity of saying, with a smile in her face, that he finally was felling some emotions. Seriously, there's so many more things wrong with that scene I can't even write about it all.
I'm guessing it was her way of making him open up to her, but it was really unhealthy.
Second couple: Two young adults in a long term relationship, living together. The woman wanted to marry asap to stop working and become a house wife, have kids and so on. The man did not want to get married at all, worked as free lance and was happy with how things were.
The woman got mad of waiting for his proposal and broke up with him. They both missed each other, but she managed to find a rich, intelligent and handsome man that actually wanted the exact same things she did.
She dumped him, went back to her ex, talked about how their plans for the future didn't match and how they should work it out. They both agreed with it and as soon as they got back together the first thing she did was ask when they'd get married. I mean, for real? He decided to get married for the sake of not breaking up again and she was extremely happy with that.
That's also not a healthy relationship.
*** END OF SPOILER ***
I usually don't defend men because they are usually wrong, but in this drama I felt women were in the wrong. In my opinion, if you don't like something in a relationship, you either talk about it and try to come up with a solution, if it's possible of course, or you break up an move on. Forcing each other to change or do something they don't want to is unhealthy. Psychologically manipulating your partner is also wrong.
I'm sorry for the rant lol
I really liked the beginning of this drama, it was really interesting, but then things became messed up.
And since I hate this drama ending like no other, I can't hold back when talking about it.
[–]catchaleafFDS Newbie 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No wonder I always loved K dramas. I never knew that. They are so thoughtfully written.
[–]imnotfitforexistenceThrowaway Account 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I don't have much experience with it, but I think there are a lot of pick mes and male leads throwing red flags in kdrama, so it's kinda difficult for me to watch.
Do you have any good recommendations to help change my bad perception of it? I'm currently looking for something to watch.
[–]gingerwabisabiFDS Apprentice 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That explains a lot!
[–]DisastrousSundaeFDS Newbie 33 points34 points35 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
https://youtu.be/8ojyjzQ632M This scene gives me LIFE!! I died laughing
[–]DevilGirl-CrybabyFDS Newbie 27 points28 points29 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I wrote an entire essay once (ADHD and autism) about how her and Miranda Priestley are not only the same person, but they're both far far less villainous than their films would have them seem, especially as Priestley was based on a woman who has Asperger's. Also I can't help but notice a weird link in films/TV of "evil" women who are actually just queen's working in fashion specifically? (These two films, Kimmy Schmidt, ugly Betty etc) Heck as soon as a man finds out that's what I'm doing my degree in, he goes out of his way to tell me how utterly unimportant and shallow he thinks fashion is, as if he made his own clothes.
[–]ecloFDS Newbie 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Because fashion is mostly a female interest therefore it’s shallow and worthless. Whereas shit like cars or craft beer is super serious bc manly.
[–]yggiwtmiihFDS Newbie 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
as if he made his own clothes.
Lmao
[–]soundslikeautumnFDS Newbie 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think about this scene a lot.
[–]_laufaesonFDS Newbie 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I feel like kids and marriage can be interchangeable here.
[–]throwRAonlyFriendzThrowaway Account 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I’m not gonna lie, if I could have a puppy coat without any puppies dying, I’d look in to it
[–]SunanasFDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Can't be too long now with lab-made meat on it's way. (Already out?)
[–]dismayed_starfishFDS Newbie 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Making a post here with the same name you use at DO30. Bold move
[–]HornetKickFDS Newbie 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Off topic but she looks a lot like Lucille Ball for some reason.
[–]midwesternwindsFDS Newbie -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Does this really need to be reposted every week? It's tiring and I'm tired of being the only one to point out how weird it is to look up to objectively evil women who harm other women and in this case animals.
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