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ShitLordXurious
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[–]Ransom_Stoddard206 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Blacks can stop theft.
Muslims can stop terrorism.
Women can stop throwing unwanted babies in dumpsters, infanticide, hypergamy, sperm-jacking, false rape/DV accusations, divorce, unfair child custody, child support, alimony, cheating, lying and stealing.
[–]Subrosian_Smithy34 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
unfair child custody, child support, alimony
It's a legal system which perpetuates inequality in these areas, not necessarily the women who are benefited.
[–]THEAdrian53 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's also the legal system which perpetuates the myth that all men are the aggressors and that they're the only one's capable of rape.
[–]McGauth925-41 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The thing is, even if they're capable, it's still men that commit the vast majority of rapes. If you want to assign blame to men and women, then men get the nod on this one, by a long way.
[–]ZombieOmNom42 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
it's still men that commit the vast majority of rapes
No. Rapists commit rapes. Men are a gender, not a genre of criminal.
[–]Nulono33 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Only of you define rape as being forcibly penetrated.
[–]flyingwolf27 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Actually its about 50/50 there sparky.
[–]Everybodys_dead_dave-9 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Actually sparky, 99% of arrestees for rape are male. Yes this for penetrative rape only, but even with the widest possible definition of rape, it is men that are by far the biggest perpetrators. Most men haven't raped, nor do they approve of it or excuse it, but that doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of rapists are male. It is not unreasonable, therefore, to ask us to examine whether or not we could do something about that fact. And the same logic applies to any demographic where a crime is particularly prevalent - for example, if there are statistically more thefts perpetrated by the black community where you live, would it not make sense to help that community examine why that is and what can be done about it?
Self-awareness beats defensiveness.
[–]Duncan00613 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'd like to direct everyone's attention to the word arrestees which is exactly one of the points we argue here!
[–]Everybodys_dead_dave-2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Wait, so your point is that there are in fact thousands of female rapists that are getting away with it? Would love to see a source on that.
[–]vexonlol7 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That's the thing sparky, they get away, so no research data can be found.
[–]Everybodys_dead_dave-6 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Oh, I'll just take your half-arsed opinions as proof then.
Edit: found my own source, see other comment. 17% of rapists are female, including forcible envelopment and same sex rape. That leaves 83% of rapists as men.
[–]ArmyGuy5437 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
99% of arrestees for rape are male.
That is the issue today that we are trying to fix. You can't use current legal statistics to prove the MRM wrong on this kind of thing, because it is the legal statistics that we are trying to fix.
[–]Everybodys_dead_dave-4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Why, what research/statistics are you using? Okay, let's pretend for a second that I never mentioned the legal statistics, it adds no dignity to the argument that just because it's a minority of men that commit rape there shouldn't be a wider discussion about our attitudes towards it.
[–]gossypium_hirsutum2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
These studies operate on two premises that lead to false conclusions. First, they only include reported rapes. Second, they use a definition of rape that excludes forcible envelopment.
What this means is that we have no definitive data on which gender commits more rapes. Because that's how science works.
Yes, men are convicted for rape more often because there is a very narrow set of circumstances in which a woman may be convicted for rape.
Essentially you're saying that 0% of non-Americans are American. It's true, but it's also a meaningless statement that helps no one improve anything.
[–]Everybodys_dead_dave0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Really, is that how science works? Okay well in the last 10 minutes I've found two separate articles referring to studies into exactly what you're describing.
My favourite one here http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2009/01/05/can-women-rape-men-noh/ refers to a CDC study and says that INCLUDING forced envelopment, 1/6 (17%) of rapes are perpetrated by women (including same sex rape) . It also says that 1/4 victims are men, and that includes men as victims of both genders. So still nowhere near 50/50 as claimed above.
Now, there are studies that say about 60% of rapes go unreported, so the data won't be perfect as there's no way of knowing the gender split in that percentage. But even the most generous assumptions about lack of men reporting female rape would not lead to a 50/50 split between genders.
I just wanted to show that it's disingenuous to say there isn't any data out there on one hand while your fellow users are simultaneously claiming that there are is an equal gender split in rape perpetrators, which is patently untrue and based on no evidence whatsoever.
[–]Phrodo_007 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
But most men haven't ever raped anyone, why would you do something as pointless as assign the blame of a crime to a gender (how do you feel by assigning to a race? ) , especially when that assumption can help some rapists to get lower sentences.
[–]thekingofdemons5 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't think any group should try and argue their case around "the lesser of two evils", but focus on the people that advocate real rape (not the portrayal of rape) as being acceptable.
Making a blanket statement saying that "all men rape" simply because they're getting data stating that the majority of reported rapes have male perpetrators is disingenuous.
The majority of women and men, will go through life without being raped. So rape is something that happens very rarely, like less often then automobile accidents (otherwise there would be rape insurance)...so you're really "winning the lottery" of the sexual assault gamut if you've been raped outside of prison. The percentage of guys that are rapists is incredibly small, and it's those guys who are fueling the numbers you're seeing (assuming these rape accusations aren't false).
In my point of view (I'll use an arbitrary number here) it's not 5,000 women are raped...therefore 5,000 men are rapists. It's more likely that 300 men are just really active rapists, and some of those men might actually be women.
[–]unbuttoned-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
outside of prison
Why is this a metric that you can brush aside, but gender isn't?
[–]thekingofdemons2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm not trying to brush it aside, I just have no idea how often rape actually happens in prison. I wasn't trying to insinuate that it's a "non-issue" in comparison to other situations of rape.
[–]bh32442 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The thing is, even if they're capable, it's still men that are awarded the vast majority of nobel prizes. If you want to assign intelligence to men and women, then men get the nod on this one, by a long way.
[–]McGauth9256 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Benevolent sexism. The legal system does it because that's the way women want it. If women were as opposed to this as they are to other issues, it would end very soon.
[–]Ransom_Stoddard0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Who makes the decision... the choice to accept an unequal and unfair ruling through the system, while being cognizant of the biased, unfair and unequal nature and ramifications of that choice?
Rational people blame those making the choice. Yes, the system and it's participants facilitating are also at fault, but not as much as the person who had the choice and chose wrong.
Often, ethics, morals and values have nothing to do with law and order nor political systems.
Every choice you make and decision you act upon is yours, and yours alone.
I fully agree that those powers and legal choices should not exist in the system and should be removed, but please place the lions share of the blame where it belongs.
Had I lived 250 years ago, I could have legally owned and beat my slaves, wives and children with the same tree branch. Most good and decent people did none of that.
[–]TemporaryDolphin-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The whole 'you're allowed to beat your wife with sticks no thicker than your thumb' thing is an urban myth created by feminists.
Like most of their talking points, it's an outright lie. Virtually every pop-feminist argument is based entirely on lies.
[–]Cheveyo20 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
And women can stop raping children. It seems you can't go long without a new case of a female teacher having sex with a student.
[–]fireisveryfun2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
wOmEn caunt raEp tHo! ~ feminists 2014
[–]Perfected1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
damn son, got em.
[–]McGauth925-7 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
More stupid, thoughtless, bigotry.
[–]HunterGuilherme1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Woosh
[–]Ransom_Stoddard1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
So, what you're really saying is that "Not All Blacks Are Like That."
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What are your thoughts on "men can stop rape"?
[–]RevShogun-7 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
stop linking terrorism Muslims, or Islam.
if you talk about terrorism in a broad sense, USA are the first and top on the list, so just stop.
Edit: For the down voters who don't know theology. If you're in a subreddit fighting for equality and against propaganda, then it is very hypocritical of you.
ter·ror·ism
ˈterəˌrizəm
noun
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
[–]Ransom_Stoddard2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
So, what you're really saying is that "Not All Muslims Are Like That."
[–]RevShogun0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No that everyone that hears terrorism almost instinctually to call us out on it, so bound to your views selled by media. I hate that shit, like I'm proud to be Arab, but if I had to say anything to the states - id be almost targeted.
My point is: fight your beliefs about equality and rebuild them as more enjoyable. Your mind is wrong.
PS: if I'm completely ridiculous and idiotic, go ahead claim it, I don't really care unless knowledgeable information is going to make me understand. Good night gents
[–]YetAnotherCommenter-13 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Actually, you can argue this to be somewhat true; religion is clearly a part of culture and fundamentalist Islam is hardly a biological thing. Ergo, fundamentalist Islam creates a "terrorism culture" which radicalizes people and encourages them to blow shit up for Allah.
That said, it isn't "Muslims" collectively who create it, but Salafi Islamic (the kind of Islam which creates the terrorists) scholars/Imams and the fact that the Al Sauds (the Saudi Royal Family) spend tons of money on funding Salafism.
That said, non-fundie Muslims in the west bear no responsibility for terrorism. Arguably, through them persuading other, more fundie Muslims to become less fundie, non-fundie Muslims can reduce the chance of terrorism. But it isn't "Muslims" collectively who create terrorism.
Compare the above to the "rape culture" argument which argues "any time any men are in a male space they're conspiring to rape women." Which is saner, more levelheaded and less bigoted?
[–]SporkTornado102 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Strange double standards we have, it's hate speech if its targeted at any other group besides men. But since its targeted at men, its OK.
Don't tell airlines to install amored cockpit doors in planes, teach Muslims not to hijack planes.
Don't tell me to lock my car, teach Hispanics to not steal cars.
[–]that-freakin-guy9 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
...So why do they have to be Hispanic? /s
[–]AntiHer0z15 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What do you mean you people?
[–]McGauth925-12 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I wish you would go away until you can stop emanating so much prejudice and bigotry. That's just offensive shit, man.
[–]SporkTornado8 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Do you consider "teach men not to rape" to be less hateful then "teach Muslims not to hijack planes" and if so, why? I consider both statements to be equally offensive. I consider branding all men as rapists to be just as bigoted as branding all Muslims as terrorrists, or branding all Mexicans as thieves. I use these comparisons to make my point that we all deeply offended by such hateful generalizations, and rightly so. Its wrong to paint all the people of a certain race, sex, religion etc as evil, because of the actions of a small minority. Branding all men as potential rapists because the actions of a tiny fraction of a percent is wrong, just as treating all Muslims as potential terrorists because the actions of a tiny fraction of a percent of Muslims, is wrong, and branding all Mexicans as thieves because the actions of a tiny fraction of a percent of Mexicans is wrong.
[–]anonagent7 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That's the entire point...
[–]cajunrevenge56 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
My favorite are the feminists who insist they shouldn't have to do things that make them less likely to be raped. I wonder if they leave their house and car unlocked because it's not their responsibility to prevent their shit from being stolen.
[–]ShitLordXurious23 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
They are advocating for their own hypoagency - the deeply held female notion that they are not responsible for anything that happens to them.
[–]bretth10414 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Except the victim of rape is not in any way at fault.
[–]brettins27 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I think it depends on your definition of fault. If the word fault includes 'took actions that increased the likelihood of an event', then everyone has some part to play in every event that happens to them. If we mean it as 'should take responsibility for the event', then it's a clear and obvious no.
[–]theirwwdaughter18 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
See, I think the point isn't really fault. A rape victim cannot be responsible for their rape. The rapist is. Blaming victims of rape for wearing slutty clothes or something is a good thing to be against. However, the problem arises when ways to avoid rape become considered a moral responsibility or, the complete opposite, victim blaming.
Basically, if someone attacks you when you walk by yourself down an ally at 4 am, you shouldn't feel that you are at fault, but people should still be encouraged to not walk down allies by themselves at 4 am.
[–]N3TS3cure12 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No, but they may in fact be retreaded for doing things that lead to the rape.
No one walks down an alley alone at 4am, regardless of sex or race. But if a woman does so and gets raped I would definitely say she could have prevented it.
[–]aport9 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Are you aware that most rapes don't happen under these hyperbolic circumstances? Most occur in safe places and are perpetrated by close aquaintances.
[–]N3TS3cure1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No shit.
I'm not saying that the above situation is in any way an example of most sexual assaults. I'm saying that in the above example there are things that the victim could have done to mitigate risk. This applies in most situations, not just the hyperbolic.
[–]TemporaryDolphin1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Most don't. But what happens under most circumstances is irrelevant when it comes to individual crimes.
Most murders are committed by your loved ones. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be a complete fucking idiot if I went outside to talk to a stranger wearing a ski-mask and waving around a sawed off shotgun. What the fuck would the logic be there? 'Dude wasn't my wife, so I figured I'd be fine!'? That is an idiot's logic. What happens in most circumstances is irrelevant. What can happen in your current circumstances is what should inform the choices you make.
[–]McGauth9255 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Right. Agreed. But, that's not an excuse for a robber. The robber should still be punished, if caught. What we hear is, rapists and those committing assault would be let off because of the way a woman dressed, or where she was. She was asking for it, so the assaulter should receive a lighter, or maybe no, punishment.
That makes no sense, and it really is deeply offensive, particularly to women.
[–]osufan7653 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't think there's anybody saying that women deserved to be raped or that rapists don't deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of where they were or what they were wearing.
What I hear a lot of is that there are things you can do to mitigate your chances of having horrible things happen to you.
Don't tell me to not go to West Africa, tell West Africans to not have Ebola.
The above sentence is completely fucking outrageous. Why is "You can do these things to diminish your chances of being a victim of sexual assault" met with such vitriol?
I never said that the rapist is any less to blame. However, the person that is most responsible for your safety is you, no one else. I wound never say a sexual assault victim deserved what happened to them, but in most circumstances they could have taken steps to prevent it.
Yeah, and if a kid taunts a bully and gets punched, the bully should still be punished. But someone has to tell that kid to stop going around, poking bears with sticks.
[–]ShitLordXurious5 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
There are things that can be done to minimise the likelihood of being a victim of any crime.
[–]paket2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
If someone leave their car doors unlocked and is robbed, would you say that it was not in any way their fault?
If someone is at risk and does not take basic measures to protect themselves, are they at fault?
[–]McGauth9251 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No. I think it simply means that the person who left his/her car unlocked is thoughtless, or simply stupid. But, it's not a crime to leave a car unlocked. It's still the robber who, if s/he gets caught, will go to jail.
So, there IS some fault on the part of the victim. It just doesn't compare to the level of fault of the robber, or rapist. The reason so many women are adamant about that is that women have been blamed forever for the crimes that rapists - almost always men - have committed against them. I have to agree that that's simply way, way wrong.
[–]PVS32 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The fallacy here is that when we are discussing "rape" in the abstract, we end up assuming the worst-case scenario of a premeditated violent crime by an unknown assailant against a literally innocent woman.
That is the mindset used when chastising someone for pointing out that a woman who has 8 beers and goes up to a guy's room willingly may have acted irresponsibly, and we should teach our daughters to make smarter decisions regarding their own safety - we are seen as defending the abstract violent criminal who victimized someone who is "not in any way at fault".
[–]busior1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'd add more to that. If you see a drunk guy with a knife who's chasing you and screaming you don't say hey wait a second he's drunk and can't consent to murder - perhaps I shouldn't defend myself
[–][deleted]2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Except that the word "rape" now means "I had sex with a man and now I regret it."
[–]MrFuffin1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Nor are most victims of theft.
This is the kind of simplistic thing people say to shut off all debate precisely because they know that it isn't always true.
But if that was the case, it wouldn't need to be said. That your type shouts at every possibility makes me doubt whether you believe it. They may not be to blame, but people often make catastrophically stupid mistakes.
That dude who got himself stuck in a cavern in 127 hours made a massive number of mistakes that caused him to have to cut off his own arm. But even if the accident which got him stuck had been a deliberate act, that doesn't change the fact that he still did, in fact, drive out to the middle of nowhere without notifying the people he should have notified, he went out there with too few supplies, he did a stupid thing without a partner, when a partner is almost always required.
Would it be his 'fault'? Perhaps not, but the result would still partially be due to his actions and choices. Mono-causation is most often a myth. More than one person can be to blame.
[–]Imissyourgirlfriend20 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I say the rapist is always at fault. However, do not confuse my lack of sympathy with blame. If a someone went to a club with the intention of getting shitfaced drunk and flirting his/her ass off with every single person there and was raped that night, I'd have very little sympathy for that person, but it's still the rapist's fault. If a someone was working late, alone, thought they were safe but the boss followed them and raped them at work, then I'd have much more sympathy for him/her but I still do not blame them.
We should be allowed to do what we want, when we want, how we want, but we can't because shit happens. Be responsible, look out for yourself as well as your friend/coworker/total stranger.
[–]McGauth9250 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
They think it's more the responsibility of the rapist. It is, actually. It's rapists that give men a really bad name.
But, I don't see any men advocating rape, any more than I see men advocating other crimes.
[–]Emergencyegret2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
they shouldn't have to, though. The same way guys shouldn't have to put on drug activated nail polish. The same way guys shouldn't have to put a contraption on their dick that has spikes all over it.
It's pretty bizarre to have to fear that shit when you just want to go out to have a drink. And when you "forget" to do something in the laundry list of "preventative measures" there's that "I told you so attitude" that assholes put on.
I guess that's the world we live in though. I'm all for the increase in discussion of consent for both parties involved in the act. The importance of consent and increased methods of preventing rape.
[–]cajunrevenge2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
But you don't have to use it. I don't get mad at people for inventing security systems if I don't want to use them. There are tips on how to avoid most serious crimes, it's a significant part of the polices preventive measures. Why is it offensive to give advice to make yourself less likely to get raped and not burglary or assault? If you don't follow the advice it doesn't make you any less of a victim or the criminal any less guilty.
[–]Emergencyegret-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah I get that. It's a little different than the security system though. The effect of those security systems vs the anti rape tech is different on most levels. Like how the rape tech goes on/in your person and serves as a reminder for that threat.
I see it more similar to assault, though.
I don't think it's offensive as much as it's saddening/enraging.
There is one aspect that offends me though. The "i told you so" attitude that some people have. It may come from a "good" place, but it's really unwanted. It's that extra mile that some people want to take in order to oddly condemn the victim. An effort that I see the same people not wanting to take in promoting consent among men and women.
The preventative measures could go even further back into the lifespan of the potential incident. By teaching men and women about domestic/sexual violence and how to avoid/prevent it.
To have that shit looming over your head every time you want to leave the house to "let loose" a little. That threat. I don't think it's to the extent that some tumblr posts depict it, but it still hangs around.
I don't think that rape knows any real demographic either. It's not like it doesn't happen in "good" areas.
Oh, if only we lived in a perfect world!!!
Grow the fuck up and stop dreaming of a fucking utopia. Deal with the world that actually exists.
[–]Emergencyegret1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Which is what I addressed in the final two sentences. Striving for something better isn't naive or unrealistic. As someone who (I'm guessing) frequents this subreddit, I think you should be familiar with the discussion of change.
[–]TemporaryDolphin0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Rape is incredibly rare, and it is extremely obvious at this point that every other measure feminists want us to take to combat it leads to either a massive restriction in freedoms, or an unreasonable expectation of men that we be willing to put our lives at risk to protect women we don't even know.
The only violent crime rarer than rape, is murder. Violent crime in this country is lower than it has ever been before, and likely ever will be again. You are indeed dreaming of a Utopia if the lowest rate of crime in measured history is not good enough for you. You just can't seem to grasp how unreasonable your demands are at this point.
what?
"I'm all for the increase in discussion of consent for both parties involved in the act. The importance of consent and increased methods of preventing rape."
That's too much? Too unreasonable?
Massive restrictions in freedoms? Like what? Put lives at risk? what?
[–]busior0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah but women shouldn't initiate sex with men who are drunk and can't consent. It doesn't matter if they themselves are drunk or not.
[–]Emergencyegret0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No one has argued against the point you are trying to make.
[–]pretzelzetzel1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Considering that most rapes are perpetrated by someone previously known to the victim, and that most female victims have male assailants, what measures do you propose women take to avoid becoming victims? Simply to distrust all men? Because a prejudiced mistrust of all men is really the only thing that could offer a modicum of protection against "any man you already know". Yet when a woman exhibits this mistrust, she gets picked on again for hating all men. You can't have it both ways, pal.
[–]cajunrevenge1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I was thinking of a woman who was offended because some kids developed a nail polish that could detect the date rape drug in their drinks. Because instead of designing ways for women to protect themselves men should just not rape women. I guess she thinks men aught to just roam around in gangs in their free time looking for people having sex and checking in to see if it's not a rape. Probably have to give her a sobriety test just to make sure she is not drunk too. "Sorry mam, your blood alcohol levels are three times over the sex limit, your gonna have to go home and sober up a bit before we let you suck that dick". Unless it's 2 dudes going it or two women, you know, because men can't be raped and women can't rape.
[–]FranklyPut0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I think that's the point - that you can make those comparisons and not bat an eye is part of the problem.
[–]Jedi_Outcast10 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You guys are looking at this completely WRONG.
Women aren't accusing all men of being rapists.
They want us to turn into BATMAN and stop rapists!
We are the night!
[–]AloysiusC1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You'd think they'd find batman creepy.
[–]Jedi_Outcast2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Of course not, he can't be creepy, have you seen his abs and his ass?
[–]Fenrisulfr222 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
He's rich, handsome, and powerful.
Yeah... I'm not dying for some other dude's girlfriend. That's not how this works, and I don't get where women got it in their heads that every man on this planet should be willing to lay down his life for her.
[–]sherpederpisherp9 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's blatant victim-blaming as well. I was the only man present when I was raped. I should have stopped it, according to them.
[–]peacegnome1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This post is trying to show the hypocrisy in the "teach men" BS. The same people who would say that we should "teach men" probably feel that you weren't raped (if it was F on M at least).
[–]railroadwino8 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't come here anymore because the opposition are literally mentally ill.
[–]slideforlife0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
i like that picture
[–]mriddell0016 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The accurate statements are:
Though it's difficult to convince criminals not to commit crime, it's no less worthy of a cause.
[–]p3ngwin8 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
A) women rape men too.
B) the generalisation with the absolute claim "men can stop rape" (meaning ALL men can stop rape) is fallacious, as why is it ALL men's responsibility to stop women's problems ?
Does the gender of the criminal matter? wouldn't men and women equally help the victim ?
So why is it only "men can stop rape" ?
so if NOT all men rape, and both men AND women should help ANY victim, then the message should be "PEOPLE CAN STOP RAPE".
if the message is directed at rapists then the message is "RAPISTS CAN STOP RAPE".
This is why the current message "MEN CAN STOP RAPE" is accusatory and generalises to the point of saying absolutely ALL men are rapists and are responsible for rape against women.
[–]mriddell0014 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree with you. That's exactly why I didn't mention gender in my post.
[–]p3ngwin1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm making the distinction that not only RAPISTS CAN STOP RAPE, but PEOPLE CAN STOP RAPE.
i'm just making it more clear with an explanation :)
[–]LePetitChou4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Not only is this inherently sexist, but it's oddly heteronormative. That's a big no-no on the left.
I guess we women can't be expected to stop anything...
[–]ShitLordXurious3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Feminism, and women's endorsement of it, has left me with a very dim view of female nature.
Ironically, feminism has made me disrespect women, when I didn't before.
[–]LePetitChou-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Perhaps that's a sign that feminism has lost sight if its original goals, which was gender equality?
[–]ShitLordXurious-5 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Those were never feminism's goals though. Feminists never wanted women to share the same responsibilities and obligations that men faced.
They wanted to keep their female privilege, but still have all the rights that men have, without the same obligations.
It was fundamentally selfish from the very start. Sociopathic, in fact.
[–]LePetitChou8 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You're quite wrong. That was how it started.
Nope. That may be the way it is now, but that does not reflect its origins.
Listen. Don't you hate it when women paint MRAs with a broad brush?
Don't be that guy. Don't be two dimensional about a social movement. Eh?
[–]ShitLordXurious6 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
First wave feminists wanted the vote, but didn't want to have to "pay" for it by being on the draft, as men did.
They wanted the right to vote, without the responsibility of having to lay down their lives for the country, as men do.
It's the same today.
That is true. I remember reading that the single biggest obstacle to the Equal Rights Amendment was because women feared that they would be drafted, just as men were. But, I also remember some government type trying to assure them by telling them that the government had the constitutional right to draft only men, despite any equal rights amendment.
There's been the issue of women being given a choice about entering combat, while men weren't. Then, there was the issue about women needing to volunteer for combat, to be eligible for promotions.
I don't know how I could forget this issue: it's the single biggest privilege that women have, that feminists and women, in general, have danced around, and played squid with, for EVER. You know, obfuscate, confuse, avoid, misdirect.
[–]LePetitChou-2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Wait, is that how we give people the right to vote? I suppose we better be telling the paraplegics, senior citizens and color-blind men that they can't vote since they can't serve. Are you daft?
AND feminists HAVE fought for the right to serve on the front lines. Do you think we were just allowed into the army and navy and air force on a whim?
You're embarrassing yourself, now. Stop.
I really didn't come here to fight for feminism. But this is insane garbage you're spewing. Why are you mirroring the shitty arguing tactics of the extreme feminists you hate?
[–]AloysiusC6 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The vote in the US was indeed tied to conscription. That is the main reason why many women (including feminists) were against women's suffrage - because they feared that it would mean women would get drafted too. Only once it became clear that they wouldn't, did women mostly agree that they wanted the right to vote and with comparatively little effort they got it given to them for free.
AND feminists HAVE fought for the right to serve on the front lines.
Ah, the right to serve. Not the same as the obligation to serve. Funny you can't even tell the difference.
[–]LePetitChou0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I never said that I agreed with the fact that women had less on an obligation to serve in the military, historically. I don't. If a country sends it's men to die, it should send its women with the same impunity.
Plus, feminists FOUGHT for that RIGHT to serve.
[–]AloysiusC0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Ok, but you should know, that feminists had to do very little actual fighting to accomplish anything. Typically, as soon as women collectively agreed they wanted something, it would be given to them. That's how men and society work in general. The biggest obstacle for women's issues has always been other women. Even today. One absolutely cannot compare that with civil uprising of oppressed groups who really did have to fight.
[–]LePetitChou1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Ok, but you should know, that feminists had to do very little actual fighting to accomplish anything.
That's easy to say when you're not the one doing the fighting. And by he way, it's the same dismissive attitude "feminazis" hold towards MRAs, as in "They have nothing to fight for. Men have everything already."
Don't be that person. That person sucks.
Typically, as soon as women collectively agreed they wanted something, it would be given to them.
That's patently absurd. Women started campaigning for the right to vote before African Americans did, and we got the right to vote decades later. We still don't have a law ensuring equal payment for equal work (although that's arguably less necessary with the invention of the internet and the ability to compare your income to a national average.)
Again, this black-and-white, dismissive thinking is what you guys HATE about society's view of MRAs. Why are you adopting the same simplistic approach?
The biggest obstacle for women's issues has always been other women. Even today.
I would agree with this. No argument there.
One absolutely cannot compare that with civil uprising of oppressed groups who really did have to fight.
Women were an oppressed group, and in some parts if the world continue to be. We aren't anymore, at least in the US, but we've made enormous strides in the past 100 years. Now popular/modern feminism has gone into punishing-males mode, or victim-fetishizing women, and that's a real problem.
That's easy to say when you're not the one doing the fighting
Then prove me wrong and show me historical records that document this "fighting". Just asserting "women had it bad" is getting a little old.
And by he way, it's the same dismissive attitude "feminazis" hold towards MRAs, as in "They have nothing to fight for.
Don't straw man. I never said MRAs fought either.
Women started campaigning for the right to vote before African Americans did, and we got the right to vote decades later.
It's all simple for you isn't it? There's "women" and "we" and that's it. What women campaigned? And what women were against it? There's more to history than just good and bad people.
we got the right to vote decades later
Omg, cry me a river. In all the millennia of recorded history, women had to wait decades longer. What a nightmare. No wonder they still haven't recovered.
And again, you ignore the fact that men's "right" to vote was tied to military service. So technically, men didn't have that right until after conscription was abolished which was much later.
We still don't have a law ensuring equal payment for equal work
Not true. Besides we don't even need that. Paying one demographic less for the same work, only costs the employer to then hire the more expensive demographic.
Then who were women "fighting"?
Women were an oppressed group
That's not doing justice to the word oppression when you look at the state of actually oppressed groups. It also makes women look like idiots given that throughout history, they never broke away from the "oppression" when even slaves occasionally managed to revolt.
Women were (and to some extent still are) a protected class. They certainly had restrictions to their freedom but those were more similar to how children have restrictions to their freedom. I.e. not to "keep them down" but to keep them safe. You don't go around saying society hates or oppresses children even though they earn less, have less rights, can't even decide over their own body - all much more extreme than women have ever had it.
I'm not saying it was all easy and fair or that those limitations were a good thing. But it's also not fair to compare that to the forceful oppression of minorities. Giving up some freedom for the sake of being safe and healthy, is a price most women gladly paid. The only delay in women's empowerment arose from the concern over possibly giving up the safety benefits.
or victim-fetishizing women, and that's a real problem
And have you never asked yourself why they do this? And why it's so well received by the public? Because that's the really interesting part that will explain a lot of how the sexes have always interacted: "men must keep women safe and comfortable". That's what's always been the relationship. Modern feminism is just the latest expression of that relationship. Nothing more.
Wait, is that how we give people the right to vote?
Yes, men in the US have to sign the draft to agree to be conscripted in order to vote.
Women do not.
It's an aspect of your female privilege that you don't even know that.
[–]LePetitChou-4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yes, men in the US have to sign the draft to agree to be conscripted in order to vote,
We don't draft soldiers in the US anymore. We haven't drafted since Vietnam. May I ask how old you are?
Please, ShitLordXurious, present me with evidence that men are currently being drafted.
[–]pretzelzetzel4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Do you actually not know about selective service? How can you continue to be so ignorant in this discussion? You've had several opportunities to educate yourself, but comment after comment reveals that you are still ignorant of the fundamental fact around which the discussion revolves. How can this be? It makes no sense. The machine you're using to type has the power to reveal the missing information to you. Why do you not use it?
Was there a point in there?
The selective service means nothing when DRAFT IS NO LONGER A REALITY. Again, to say otherwise is an insult to the memory of men who had to uproot their lives and flee the US, or be butchered in foreign wars against their will.
Don't you fucking dare. The draft was legalized murder.
Ah, righteous indignation: the last resort of someone who has no real argument upon which to depend. I love it. It's like saying "You win but I can't admit it".
[–]ShitLordXurious2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male immigrants living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. It's important to know that even though he is registered, a man will not automatically be inducted into the military. In a crisis requiring a draft, men would be called in sequence determined by random lottery number and year of birth. Then, they would be examined for mental, physical and moral fitness by the military before being deferred or exempted from military service or inducted into the Armed Forces.
Check your privilege, bitch.
Registering to the "selective service" when the DRAFT IS NO LONGER IN PLAY is not, in any way, the same thing as what men were forced to do in the 70's, or flee the country. To state otherwise is an insult to their memory.
Come on, you can do the math
Did you just ask me to check my privilege? When did MRA become SRS?
You really are a delight.
[–]ShitLordXurious0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
All men are registered for the draft, and this is how their vote is "payed" for.
Women get their vote for free.
Feminism has always been about expanding female privilege, without taking on board the same obligations and responsibilities as men, regardless of what's fair and just.
It's been poisonous and sociopathic from the very start. It was never about equality.
[–]Skinjacker4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
listen, while I'd like to agree with you, you're acting just like a tumblr feminist. rather than tell someone rather rudely to "check their privilege," you could try and prove your point through evidence. this whole discussion is a circle that's getting rounder by each comment you post.
It was meant in an ironic manner.
Nobody tells women to check their privilege, especially not men. Telling others to check their privilege is itself a feminist privilege.
Why do you insist like arguing in an idiotic, inflammatory way?
Anyone who drops the "check your privilege" line is a tool.
It was ironic. I explained that in another comment.
Right, was the "bitch" part ironic too?
Dude, you suck at sarcasm.
[–]levelate2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
prove the person you are replying to is wrong, don't just say they are wrong.
read up on feminist history. it is not what you think it is.
Wait, did you just call me out for not providing proof for my statements, and then do the exact same thing?
Regardless, have you read The Feminine Mystique by Betty Freidan? It was written in the 60's, and the subject was how housewives were empty due to the lack of meaning in the narrow lives forced upon them. It was a book that cried out for women to get REAL employment, so that they could earn some independence.
Feel free to counterpoint.
EDIT: oh, and by the way, I'm a proud MRA. Look through my comment history if you doubt me,
[–]levelate0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
no, you stated that the person you were replying to was wrong with no evidence.
i invited you to learn about feminist history.
can you see the difference here?
Haha, no. No, I really don't, sugar tits.
So educate me. What am I missing? How about you name your least favorite feminist and tell me about a book she's written.
I'll wait right here.
let me break it down for you...
you STATED that a person was wrong.
i, having knowledge contrary to your belief (it is a belief, as you have no evidence to back up your claim), ask you to actually read up on the things that feminists have done.
where is the problem here?
How about you name your least favorite feminist and tell me about a book she's written.
right now, it's you.....maybe you should take a step back and think about if you are too concerned....
also, sugar tits....i've never been called that, kudos to you
You still haven't educated me about feminism. You've just wasted time, flapping your gums
Put up or shut up. ;)
try arguing instead of downvoting you fucking moron.
Someone has his panties alllllll in a bunch.
Stop throwing tantrums. The only one who hasn't presented ANY knowledge of a SINGLE feminist is you.
I've asked to to educate me; you can't. Toddle off then.
If equality had been feminists' goal from the start, they'd have started with men's issues that have, throughout history, been more serious and damaging.
Feminism only even started and became so powerful because of the single biggest inequality from which all others follow: male disposability.
That's an interesting perspective, but I'm not sure what you mean by male disposability. Do you mean that because men worked more dangerous occupations, feminism arose?
Honest question.
[–]AloysiusC2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree that you should watch the video below. In short, male disposability is the phenomenon through which we as a species care more about women's needs and well being while men are used to ensure those - at the expense of their own safety, health and often lives. Symptoms of male disposability are things like "women and children first" rules as well as male only drafts etc. Feminism is one such a symptom. It is the product of a society that cares more about women's interests than men's.
The cause for male disposability is biological/evlutionary and a consequence of circumstances (in the past, when resources where scarce, it was most efficient that way). We observe similar things in other mammals and in fact in most species.
This is one reason why the MRM is far superior in its understanding of gender issues. At the core of them all, we ascribe biological circumstances for which neither gender nor any other group is responsible. In other words, we can explain the problems without blaming women (or men). And that explanation is a lot more coherent. Check out the video, and I recommend most of her other videos too.
It's evident you know nothing about the MRM or why it is opposed to feminism.
Male disposability is the core men's right's issue. It's the issue from which all other emerge.
Watch this classic video to learn.
I think women are happy with their privileges. But, I think some feminists wanted an end to all privileges, for both men and women. Now, it seems like there's some talk about benevolent sexism/privileges, but it doesn't seem like a major concern, overall.
No, feminists do nothing about inequalities that favour women. They are non-issues to them.
[–]Ninja_Yewnicorn4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Can we agree that women and men can both be educated in ways that help bring the rape probability down? Take a look at India for example.. women and girls there are raped because they are walking down the street. There is a fight there now for men to teach other men not to rape or stop it if they see it. It can be a cultural thing where one gender thinks there isn't an issue with treating another gender poorly... but I don't think that's the issue in the US.
Do you think men have any responsibility in teaching other men that rape is not acceptable?
[–]McGauth9259 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't know any men who think rape is acceptable. I've NEVER, in my entire life, heard a man say something like, "She was asking for it, and I'm glad she got it." And, I HAVE heard men say things like that about physically assaulting another man.
[–]Wraith88880 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
But I think we don't hear it often because they know they can't say it out loud to just anyone. I have heard shit like this, but disguised as humor. But I can spot the sinister undertones vs humor. Locker rooms, biker bars, frat parties, bachelor parties. I make sure to crush that shit. We do need to make sure we set examples for others. I've had to do the same with racist crap as well. I make sure they know that just because I'm white that doesn't mean I agree with their bullshit. When we say nothing their minds rationalize this as agreement.
I've heard/read the "she was asking for it" part numerous times in different forms in reactions to rape stories/discussion. It's bizarre.
[–]gwallan4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Take a look at India for example.. women and girls there are raped because they are walking down the street.
In India sixty percent of victims under the age of eighteen are boys and women are allowed to rape with impunity. Male victims of male rapists dare not report to authorities because they run the risk of being charged for participating in immoral activities. Male victims of female rapists are not victims at all. It isn't a crime. The Indian government DID propose gender neutral laws less than two years ago whereupon womens and feminist groups kicked up such a fuss that the govt ended up backing down.
[–]p3ngwin2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The Indian government DID propose gender neutral laws less than two years ago whereupon womens and feminist groups kicked up such a fuss that the govt ended up backing down.
yep, this one takes a while to settle in. so much for equality eh ?
Sure, and teach black people not to commit crimes while you're about it.
/s
[–]aport0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You know, if we actually tried to address poverty, education, and incarceration, it might do some good.
[–]McGauth925-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You know, I just HATE your reply.
[–][deleted]1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Be careful about western medias. If you only got your information from them you'd assume that only women are the targets of acid attacks.
I've read 25% of rape accusations are false in India, I've also read that any word from a female and a male goes to jail for 2 years.
Black people can stop crime
[–]TemporaryDolphin2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women can stop tossing babies into dumpsters! Or drowning them in bathtubs. OR locking the car doors and driving it into a lake.
Well, it IS men that rape more often, even though it's a small minority. But, is this like saying, men can stop robbery, or women can stop prostitution?
Or, is it saying something like, It's my responsibility, because I belong to the group that does the most raping, to go out and spend a lot of time working on preventing rape. And, if I don't, that's just more evidence that I'm misogynous, or some kind of selfish low-life.
The thing is, men get assaulted more than women do. So, if there were a crime I wanted to go out and spend time putting a stop to, that would probably be the one.
[–]Wraith88881 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I think the point was that men need to set an example to other men. Speak out and let them know that, no, it's not normal. We are not secretly thinking the same stuff. Much in the same way we could say that white people can make a difference with other white people hating black people. Or that black people can help stop other black people from hating on white people. People take their cues from what they perceive as their peer group.
Judging by the stats on inter- and intra-racial crime, black people hate black people more than any other group hates any other group.
Well that is different issues than racism or sexism. And way to much to even skim over withput a dissertation on socioeconomic effects and urban behavioral trends.
I think the point was that men need to set an example to other men. Speak out and let them know that, no, it's not normal.
it's not like rapists have friends and talk about their raping, so it's not the same as racism among whites and blacks that is done in public.
the rapists is alone and is hardly communicating their intentions to others for other people to act on in any way.
your neighbour right now could be secretly abusing children in his cellar, how are you going to "set a good example to him" if you don't know he's doing it and he doesn't care inform you anyway ?
[–]Wraith88882 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
In that extreme example maybe not, but date rapist will brag to his bros about "how drunk that chick is and she says she doesn't want it, but she'll love it. She just needs a real man to show her."
date rapist will brag to his bros about ...
while that does happen, i don't think college frat bros are the majority of rapists.
so if you're defending Wraith8888's idea that the message of "MEN CAN STOP RAPE" means "men need to set an example to other men", then i disagree.
The fact is rape is perpetrated by individuals, not discussed among friends, and simply isn't something "other men" have any clue that their fellow rapists are even doing it.
there is no opportunity to engage them in discussion, shame them, educate them, etc.
Which is why his comparison to racism between blacks and whites is nonsense.
racism certainly does happen in groups, in public, and discussed even with pride, etc so there is opportunity for Wraith8888's idea to tell them "it's not normal", etc
Rape does not.
this is why it's sexist and insulting an entire gender to suggest men are all rapists and women need not take any action at all to defend themselves.
When someone is attacking you, being it an individual, or an entire country, it's insane to believe you should not invest in preserving your own survival because "I don't need to defend my own survival, because they should stop doing it to me".
[–]Diesel-661 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Sure but that can also be extended to Blacks can stop crime.
[–]wlxr1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I love it.
Edit: Clearly I mean the message.
[–]Knowone-4-I-Am1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You really can not hold all men responsible for rape or that of another mans actions, even though were treated that way by the feminist movements. all people are held to be equal, male and female alike. if this is true, then not all men are to be nor should be held liable for other mens actions. and if this is not true, then there is no equality and feminism is a joke.
[–]speedisavirus1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'd say 3 out of 4 are entirely true.
Rape, just like immigration, terrorism, child abuse etc. etc. is a complicated issue. The problem with these kinds of issues is that no one really knows a good way to get people do stop doing this kind of shit when they do. Neither are these issues anything alike.
The best thing we can come up with is to address some of the underlying problems which seem to be prevalent, or important in leading to the issue we're trying to tackle.
With rape, you find that although there are a lot of other underlying problems, at least one important cause is opinion among groups of males. Things like "slutty girls want sex from anyone", "provocative dress is asking for rape", "they deserve to have sex with women because they are alpha males". These opinions by no means represent the majority of males, neither is it a reason to get your shit in a twist. But one thing is known and that is - modifying popular opinion in groups does solve issues.
In this particular instance and to be fair many others cited such as abuse of partners, terrorism, child molestation (a particular kind of rape although the motivation does differ wildly) there has been a benefit from a change in public opinion.
Men can stop rape in situations where group popular opinion about female roles is antiquated or just plain wrong. Rather than compare every complex issue why don't you do the sensible thing and look at each one in turn without taking it personally because it appears to attack members of your gender.
[–]Arakin1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Is this a joke? This is like saying "you can raise a child to be a terrorist" and then applying that mentality to a group of semi-grown up/grown up men and saying that a group of men rationalizing rape together will thereby influence/cause men to go rape women. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I don't scream rape whenever I drink 2-3 beers and bang an ugly chick. Men take responsibility for their action, wimin are just yeah but I drank two beers so I was drunk, so I couldn't consent to a 10 men gangbang even though at the time I said that's what I want. I am clearly the victim even though everyone involved was drunk as well
[–]ZayJay1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I like the link and all, but why does the logo look like it was written with a bloody tampon?
[–]zepha1210 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
How is that offensive? You can't justify rape whether it's done by a man or a woman. I understand where you're coming from, but it's certainly not feminism, If i said 'stop raping' are you saying i'd be called a feminist? Hahaha
[–]pretzelzetzel-5 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
OP is a piece of shit. Look at his comments around this thread.
[–]Hekatomba0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
U are piece of shit.
[–]Yojimara0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
"It's not the same thing."
[–]Koalachan-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Off topic (sorta): I'm Watching Revoltion and the symbol in the bottom right looks like the symbol for the Monroe Republic, which is basically the bad guy army.
[–]slideforlife-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
women can stop divorce
[–]del_preston-2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I know I'll get downvoted, but this is just stupid. I understand the point trying to be made, but it shouldn't be hard to make that point better than this.
[–]p3ngwin3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
are you willing to show something better, or just here to complain ?
It's 2:25 AM. Please reply when you see this so that I can remember to make this point in a more sensible way tomorrow.
you could have simply responded with a "better point" in the first place.
[–]del_preston2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm a guy. I consider myself an MRA. However, this sub is getting stupider and stupider, apparently. I remember when a post like this would have never seen the light of day. And the OP "could have made a better point in the first place." If you guys want to play into the stereotype that MRA's are misogynistic idiots, I guess that's okay, but you are doing the movement a disservice. Again, I see what this post is TRYING to address. I, myself, feel a rise in blood pressure any time a feminist asserts that it's my job to stop some other piece of crap criminal from raping women. Feminists, somehow (and idiotically), found it sexist when a group of students created an easy to use, convenient date rape kit. They believed this kit (designed to protect women from rape) to be sexist because it insinuated that it was up to women to protect themselves, whereas feminists believe the men just should simply stop raping people. THIS is "unrealistic and not even remotely helpful" and also just dumb. I don't go walking around in sketchy neighborhoods with a wad of $100 bills muttering to myself "some jerk better not rob me," which is essentially what feminists do while suggesting ways to put a stop to rape. Feminists believe in boogeymen like rape-culture and the patriarchy... mythical, mysterious, and invisible forces that oppress women. I disagree with all of it. That being said. Men CAN stop rape. At least in the sense that we can help. We can help, first, by continuing to not be rapists. Just simply believing that rape is utterly intolerable is the sensible part of what feminists are asking for, it's just that they go too far in completely ignoring reality and expecting that they can demand to make the world a perfect fairyland where women control everything and the world is a perfect place.
I'm a guy. I consider myself an MRA. However, this sub is getting stupider and stupider, apparently. I remember when a post like this would have never seen the light of day. And the OP "could have made a better point in the first place." If you guys want to play into the stereotype that MRA's are misogynistic idiots, I guess that's okay, but you are doing the movement a disservice.
Again, I see what this post is TRYING to address. I, myself, feel a rise in blood pressure any time a feminist asserts that it's my job to stop some other piece of crap criminal from raping women. Feminists, somehow (and idiotically), found it sexist when a group of students created an easy to use, convenient date rape kit. They believed this kit (designed to protect women from rape) to be sexist because it insinuated that it was up to women to protect themselves, whereas feminists believe the men just should simply stop raping people. THIS is "unrealistic and not even remotely helpful" and also just dumb. I don't go walking around in sketchy neighborhoods with a wad of $100 bills muttering to myself "some jerk better not rob me," which is essentially what feminists do while suggesting ways to put a stop to rape. Feminists believe in boogeymen like rape-culture and the patriarchy... mythical, mysterious, and invisible forces that oppress women. I disagree with all of it.
That being said. Men CAN stop rape. At least in the sense that we can help. We can help, first, by continuing to not be rapists. Just simply believing that rape is utterly intolerable is the sensible part of what feminists are asking for, it's just that they go too far in completely ignoring reality and expecting that they can demand to make the world a perfect fairyland where women control everything and the world is a perfect place.
That being said. Men CAN stop rape.
yes, and "Blacks can stop crime" too, as part of an effort to help the greater goal that "PEOPLE CAN STOP CRIME".
but you don't present the sexist former as means to achieve the gender-neutral latter.
[–]slideforlife1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
she didn't have one.
[–]del_preston1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Actually, I think you're missing the point(s). Though many here would indict foolish behavior, the sympathy here is always (and I don't use that word lightly) with the victim regardless of the circumstances.
It is utterly disingenuous to propound that "Men can stop rape" after 1) defining male rape victims out of existence ; 2) having semantically established a gender-monopoly on victimization by violence; 3) making no mention the overwhelmingly male police majority that have been working both with and without feminist directives to do just that well before this pithy slogan appeared; and, 4) assuming that ending rape can be taught rather than prosecuted.
[–]Gawrsh-2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't see how anybody would even bother to read this when the design looks like it was done by someone using paint for their first time.
Surely a larger site like A Voice For Men could get someone with better design skills.
[–]ShitLordXurious1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You could volunteer.
[–]Gawrsh1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah, I could. Although having learned of this today, I was unaware of what they were doing.
And if any of this work is yours, I apologize.
Tell you what, since I did criticize their work, I'll try to see what I can do to help them out.
[–]biscuitgravy-4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women can stop rape too... by consenting. Oh, so NOW it's offensive?
[–]slideforlife3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
who care's if it's offensive. it's equally incorrect.
[–]LifeInBinary-10 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Could there be a version that says "this is fine" instead of "feminism?"
[–]ILoveHate12 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No, because only feminists claim that shit.
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