Thought this belonged here

zalinanaruto · 2019-07-08T15:42:47+00:00

the real problem isnt women soccer. basic economy 101 is supply and demand. they need to create demand for women soccer. and then more money will flow in thus high salary. just asking for money and not creating real demands is not a sustainable option. not having gold cup final, copa america final, and women's worldcup final on the same day would be a start.

JoeSchmoe777 · 2019-07-08T16:17:39+00:00

The men need a pay increase immediately to fix the intolerably sexist gender pay gap they are experiencing. Equity for all!

LuoSKraD · 2019-07-08T17:03:39+00:00

The funny part is, they never complain about modeling careers where men are 'underpaid' compared to women. They just say its because women are asked for in higher demand. If its the other way arround in anything else where men are in higher demand, they scream equal pay and chant that the patriarchal system is the culprit. Love the double standard.

WashWithaRagonaStick · 2019-07-08T16:48:21+00:00

Almost half the world watched the men’s 2018 World Cup, with nearly 3.6 billion total viewers tuning in to watch some part of the tournament. The final match alone reached an audience of over 1.1 billion people. Subsequently, the tournament’s sponsor, FIFA, brought in a profit of over $6 billion.

The women’s team garners significant but substantially lower viewership. We don’t have current data yet for the 2019 tournament, but during the women’s last World Cup in 2015, 764 million viewers tuned in for some portion of the tournament. This is quite good, but it still pales in comparison to the men’s tournament's audience. Seeing as professional sports is an entertainment industry, it’s not at all unfair — let alone sexist — to pay teams more if they bring in larger audiences. With an audience five times as large, the men's World Cup is simply a bigger affair.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/no-it-isnt-sexist-that-womens-world-cup-teams-dont-get-equal-pay

https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/financial-and-governance-report-2015-2770871.pdf?cloudid=asmgcqptmszlmj5quozr

The Wall Street Journal reported in June that Fox Sports was poised to receive, “upwards of $17 million in sponsorship revenue for [The 2015 Women’s World Cup].”

The sponsor revenue for the 2014 Men’s World Cup, $529 million. That is 31 times greater than the women’s event.

https://blogs.wsj.com/cmo/2015/06/05/womens-world-cup-draws-strong-advertiser-demand-for-fox-sports/

https://www.businessinsider.com/fifa-brazil-world-cup-revenue-2015-3

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

In 2011 the Women’s World Cup hosted in Germany had earnings of $72,818,500. The South Africa World Cup in 2010, had sales of $3.7 billion. That is 50 times greater.

The 2014 World Cup was even a greater success, $4.8 billion.

"Pay equity" is nonsense and immaterial as the actual facts empirically dispute the premise. By their same "logic" the WNBA players should be paid the same as NBA players. It's ridiculous and irrational as the WNBA has lost, on average $10MM annually, since it's creation, 6 NBA teams have folded, etc.

The NBA sponsors the floundering WNBA to the tune of tens of millions annually. It's a meaningless gong show that nobody watches.

https://fanbuzz.com/nba/ap-wnba-crossroads/

"Yet those numbers haven’t led to the league and its owners making money. The WNBA said it has lost a significant amount of money over the last 22 years, including $12 million last season.

“On average (we’ve lost) over $10 million every year we’ve operated,” NBA Commissioner Adam Silver told the AP in a phone interview in October."

Edit: "As Dwight Jaynes pointed out four years ago after the U.S. women beat Japan to capture the World Cup in Vancouver, there is a big difference in the revenue available to pay the teams. The Women's World Cup brought in almost $73 million, of which the players got 13%. The 2010 men's World Cup in South Africa made almost $4 billion, of which 9% went to the players."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/03/07/world-cup-soccer-pay-disparity-between-men-and-women-is-justified/#3a8b05b6da4a

Ergo, the women are OVERpaid as a % of revenue, in comparison to the men.

MrFootlongOG · 2019-07-08T17:53:42+00:00

Also, 9 and 13 are old stats. it’s 7 and 20 now

Edit: Washington post shows 9 and 13

ZimbaZumba · 2019-07-08T17:23:02+00:00

Woman's Soccer is an up and coming sport that is getting wall to wall media coverage. This is an attempt to establish it as a popular spectator sport on a par with men's club/international sports. This has been tried before and has failed, eg Women's NBA and Ice Hockey. Soccer though is probably the best positioned of women's team sports to achieve this; due to its mass participation, truly international nature and FIFA backing.

The reasons people watch and support sports team are very complicated. The list of factors is enormous, eg:- tribalism; exemplary skill; athleticism; tradition; social connection; heroes; drama and emotional experience; vicarious experience; ritual and spectacle etc, etc. The watching of men performing athletically also has deep roots in female mate selection and male self evaluation; from an evolutionary perspective male athletes are exemplary men. For women it can also be female porn.

Women's soccer is screwed on a number levels. The women's teams are not very skilled, a good team of 15 yr old boys would massacre the US team. They are also not especially athletic. There is no deep evolutionary reason for watching women running around in shorts, and men do not find it especially appealing.

The tradition and tribalism issues can be worked on. Media exposure can affect tradition, and the European teams are inheriting ready made tribalism by being part of top men's team organisations.

The USA is in a more precarious position. There is no tradition of watching soccer, despite its mass participation. There are also no truly popular US men's team to inherit tribalism from. Every few years at the World Cup and Olympics there will be strong support, this happens in most sports. But to maintain a strong club system and sustained national team support they need to create attachments to the teams. If you represent something political and are complainers, in particular a feminist like agenda, you will not represent many people. Their quest for tribal support will fail if they continue as is, and so will women's soccer in the USA.

tl;dr If the USA team continues to be political, women's soccer will not fully succeed in the USA.

BeckyLynchIsBetter · 2019-07-08T17:18:36+00:00

I love how before they won or anything like that, we didn't really hear much about women's soccer. Now that they won, they couldn't help but shove it down our throats. I've seen endless tweets about how women can do this just like the men. Why do they seem to always make it into some sort of a competition?

Potato_Boi69 · 2019-07-08T16:49:34+00:00

Matt Walsh speaking straight facts

LeanMrfuzzles · 2019-07-08T17:14:31+00:00

Oh they generate way more than four times as much. 6 Billion dollars compared to 130 or so million. Just because you're the best women in the world doesn't make you entitled to the same pay as the best men. You play a fucking game for a living, people would kill to be able to do that.

kragshot · 2019-07-08T17:01:04+00:00

On a segue, the fact that nothing of any relevance happened to Hope Solo's career despite her fucked up behavior in years past will never allow me to truly support the US women's team.

They want equal pay...how about administering equal standards of conduct for their players? We all know that if a male athlete had done the shit that she did, his career would have been over...oh wait. Let's ask Ray Rice.

Cuntplainer · 2019-07-08T15:48:45+00:00

Not only that, but a team of 15 year old boys beat them.

gadabout13 · 2019-07-08T15:44:27+00:00

all sports should be gender neutral. and pay based on revenue generated.

hem10ck · 2019-07-09T00:19:01+00:00

The number of people I see on social media comparing the US Women's performance to other women but comparing their pay to other men is disturbing. If comparing their pay to the Men's league then performance must also be compared to the men's league. Performance relative to other women's teams is irrelevant in the discussion.

Kravego · 2019-07-08T18:01:12+00:00

This is completely missing the point and, I think, purposefully so.

The pay of athletes in the USSF is a combination of salary and bonuses. The FIFA World Cup is an entirely SEPARATE bonus structure altogether.

Yes, the USWNT makes 13% ($4 million) of the total Women's World Cup prize money ($30 million), while the USMNT makes 9% ($38 million) from the Mens' prize money ($400 million).

But that's not the point. FIFA is not an American organization, it's an international organization. Pay from FIFA has absolutely nothing to do with how much the men and women are paid by the USSF, which handles their pay in every non-FIFA match. It is the USSF that is the defendant in the suit filed by the USWNT, not FIFA.

For the past few years (as of 2016), the women's team has generated more revenue from games for the USSF than the men's team. 2015 was a Men's FIFA World Cup year so they ended up bringing in more money that year. But despite the fact that for the past 3 years the women's team has pulled in more money, their pay has been lower. THAT is the issue.

The issue is even further muddled due to the percentage of total USSF revenue that actually comes from games - which isn't even close to 50%. So in any case, this is an issue that should be thoroughly investigated and not just dismissed flippantly and unintelligently with a bullshit "Well, AKCHUALLY" statement.

Instead of endlessly repeating the same shit that has literally nothing to do with the issue at hand, perhaps take the time to do some research.

Pioustarcraft · 2019-07-08T17:29:59+00:00

Well, in 2018, 500 million people watched the final of the men's world cup. Let's see how many people watched the final of the female world cup and let's the numbers talk.

aspoels · 2019-07-08T20:51:32+00:00

Really? I'm pretty sure that the women US soccer team generates more viewership lately, and their jerseys have absolutely destroyed the mens team in sales in the past few months or so

Dragon-With-Matches · 2019-07-08T21:33:24+00:00

Oh no... it’s much worse than that. I did the math.

Here’s the facts and figures:

“The main argument for why the men’s World Cup prize money totals are so much bigger than the women’s counterpart is that men’s soccer has far more interest among fans — and far higher revenues overall around the globe. The women’s World Cup 2015 in Canada reportedly brought in $73 million in revenues, including some $17 million in TV ads just in the U.S. Those are actually tiny numbers compared to the $6 billion in revenues FIFA raked in during the 2018 men’s World Cup in Russia.” - Forbes

Where would this extra money come from? In order to pay the women the same as the men, they would need to somehow generate enough interest to generate 82 times more money than they are.

Now, let’s take the women’s $73mm revenue and divide it by their $5k per match pay = 1/14,600 of pay/revenue.

Compared to the men’s $13k per match and $6B revenue = 1/500,000 of pay/revenue.

If we’re talking “fair” pay, the women are absolutely killing it over the men at an-all-things-equal 34% MORE pay than the men.

But don’t let silly things like facts and numbers interfere with a good ole “wage-gap” circle jerk.

someguy92614 · 2019-07-08T19:46:22+00:00

They should just play with the men, then everyone gets paid the same. Problem solved. Sports is the last sexist thing we have, why do we have a men's and women's league?? We should have one league and if you are good enough to play great.

Also why does the top play make so much more than the lowest player?? Should everyone get the same pay?? Let's make everything fair. For football, baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey and every other professional sport everyone get's $300K per year.

Hell we should apply this to everything. New cop on the beat get's the same as the guy who has been on the job 20 years. They both are doing the same job right, then why not the same pay. Someone needs to let AOC know of this injustice now. The insanity must stop before we turn into a Capitalist county and all is lost.

goodmod · 2019-07-08T23:01:21+00:00

Although this is a good post, the title does not say enough about its subject. This forces people to click and read before they can decide whether they are interested. It also makes searching impossible.

If everyone did this, the subreddit would become unusable. Moreover, it means that your post will fail to reach some readers because they won't know what it's about.

So please don't do it in future. Take the time to describe your link, and save the time of hundreds of other people.

When making a title, it's best to assume the reader doesn't know what you're talking about - but don't go overboard with every detail. Then check if there are any words you can cut out without losing any important information.

ornt · 2019-07-08T23:21:00+00:00

I saw an article on this that said the female players are paid a $100K salary and they get bonuses. The men don’t get paid a salary and work off bonuses.

Familiarwobble17 · 2019-07-09T02:17:41+00:00

And they got smacked by u 16 boys in match Not gonna lie, your not worth it if you let that happen

dumbledorito · 2019-07-08T19:53:30+00:00

It was my understanding that if you lose you don’t get paid in women’s soccer but you get paid regardless if you win or lose in men’s soccer. That’s at least what I heard in a Team USA interview four years ago.

Quintrell · 2019-07-08T17:20:12+00:00

Sure but this relates to just the USA women’s team. Which actually generates more revenue than the USA men’s team. “Equal pay” is dumb. Whichever team generates more money deserves the higher pay. Right now that’s the women.

EDIT: Since 2016 the women have brought in more money than the men

AlicornGamer · 2019-07-08T19:42:52+00:00

like i am gratefull for womens football as it is makingalot more young girls interested in playing the game. Thjats good. It wasnt an issue where i ived because both rugby and football wwere popular, but its nice to see more youth being interested in a sport.

But why seporate men's and women's so much, especially when it comes to youth? Kids dont care what sex the other person is, if the other person is nice enough and they p;lay well together, thats all kids care about.

maybe i'm the wird one here, but still that's one good thing about women's fooball.

Ninja_Arena · 2019-07-08T14:33:58+00:00

I still think the women should get a respectable amount and not compare it to the overall number the men get. If they need to get 40 percent for it to be worth their time, then do that. They shouldnt have to sacrifice or postpone their careers or life to play women's soccer....if it generates enough to give then a decent chunk for the appearance.
Blah blah blah pride of your country etc.

But yeah, once again, the actual numbers aren't looked into, just a wave of cries for justice

Invaughncible · 2019-07-08T17:37:04+00:00

Does anyone have a like or reference for where that stat comes from?

sstokes2746 · 2019-07-08T19:40:40+00:00

Am I reading this wrong or just don't understand, but it says the women get 13% and the men get 9%? How is it the men's world cup players are making more?

hatchettwit2 · 2019-07-08T20:52:18+00:00

I heard this today on Rush Limbaugh's show. Just happened to be on while driving. :) Couldn't help but think if the women get paid a bigger percentage but make less, perhaps it's because other women have failed them in their lack of interest that tells advertisers it is less useful to advertise their product there. More people, more women, watch the game then the ladies make more money. Supply meet demand.

nonamefounder · 2019-07-08T22:56:55+00:00

He even said that male soccer generates 4 billion and women soccer 100 million.

PleasantHuman · 2019-07-08T23:12:53+00:00

People are fucking stupid.

MS101110 · 2019-07-08T23:34:19+00:00

Football players work independently. There is a massive discrepancy in pay among males even when they play in the same club and position.

They have agents(a lot of the time a family member) who negotiate the wages.

I know some average players who some how managed to play for big clubs because they had great agents.

lbrtrnaut · 2019-07-08T18:29:00+00:00

I don't know what the domestic situation is in the US, but I think the easiest way to resolve issues of comparable equality would be to stop gender segregation, especially non contact sports like soccer/tennis etc, and allow anyone who's good enough to play do so under the exact same rules.

Shadezyy · 2019-07-09T00:13:45+00:00

It's really easy to focus on specific facts about this and ignore other ones in order to argue your point. I could just say that the prize money for the men's side was $400 million while the women's was $30 million even when generating about 1/5 of the viewership. That right there would make it look unfair to women, but I'm not looking at other facts such as sponsorship deals, how the money is distributed to the teams, etc. (viewership numbers from another user on this post, prize money amount which is easily found online)

I'd recommend checking out the new Philip Defranco video that covers this because he actually talks more about it and it's interesting.

NecroHexr · 2019-07-08T17:12:31+00:00

Put this on r/whitepeopletwitter

arjeidi · 2019-07-08T18:00:25+00:00

Male football players only make less because they go for lower-paying sports. The wage gap is a myth. ^/s

On a serious note, I believe this discrepancy also happens in tennis and its pretty nonsensical. Yes a lot of it is due to advertising/publicity but when is the world going to wake up and tell advertisers to fuck off? Probably never.

ProdigyBravo · 2019-07-08T17:25:56+00:00

It baffles me how many stupid people there are in the world.

meltedcheeser · 2019-07-09T03:38:53+00:00

women’s soccer generates more revenue than men’s soccer in the USA.

Title	Thought this belonged here
Author	MrFootlongOG
Upvotes	3365
Comments	271
Date	July 8, 2019 1:24 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cakzlo/thought_this_belonged_here/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/thought-this-belonged-here.874040 https://theredarchive.com/post/874040

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