AMALT

DesignerDebates · 2018-11-08T06:47:38+00:00

This post is tagged as CMV. All top level responses must attempt to challenge OP’s view.

passepar2t · 2018-11-08T01:04:00+00:00

Men have an imperative just like women. Just because AMALT doesn't mean NAWALT.

With age and maturity comes being an abrasive misery-guts. Existence is pain, youthful vigor is a scarce resource, of course we want it.

Snowiceolated · 2018-11-08T00:55:59+00:00

Everyone on this planet and their grandmothers already knows AMALT:

When she told you “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?” - AMALT.
When your mom told you those clothes are too revealing - AMALT
When your dad told you boys only want one thing - AMALT

Young men need the same courtesy about women.

jax006 · 2018-11-08T01:36:54+00:00

This is just like the MRAs who complain that feminists dont do anything about mens issues.

Nobody at RP gives a fuck what about male behaviors - it's basically a mens group who care about female behaviors.

storffish · 2018-11-08T00:47:46+00:00

it comes from anxious men who blow their chances with chicks early on by getting overly attached projecting themselves onto "men" as a population and a concept and rationalizing that they, therefor, must be perfectly and completely normal.

any guy who's ever gotten a legitimate shot at cheating (and whether he took it or not he was tempted) knows that's some bullshit. females cheat too but damn lol were not exactly virtuous as a group we're bad at resisting some strange

poppy_blu · 2018-11-08T01:14:05+00:00

CYV: I am not young and certaintly not easily manipulatable. Still attractive for a 40 something but certainly not comparable to the number of 20 somethings Mr Blu sees everyday. Yet he's still here and whipped like a MF after 13 years of marriage. And no, he's not lacking options. Attractive, athletic, 6 figures, smart, no OOW kids, no criminal record, and let's just say he don't need the blue pill.

Exile_In_Redditville · 2018-11-08T01:18:18+00:00

Speaking from experience here as someone who dated her husband at 20 and married him at 22: manipulation is the enemy of a man with genuine intentions with a young woman. It's so easy to take over or give advice that's really a demand. But it's a trap, because as the woman matures she'll recognize it and resent it. Or the man turns into "Dad" and nobody wants to fuck someone in a dad role. My husband has talked about this at length in dramatic "18-23 is the actual worst!" fashion specifically over the tightrope that is not domineering while often knowing better.

But...that means max youth isn't max attractive, horror! Not so fast. Aging while skipping damage from shitty relationship baggage, horrible meat grinder soul killing jobs endured alone, and doing a lot of what interests and fulfills you goes a long way toward maintaining a generally great attitude in people, not just women. And you can do all that while handling adult responsibility as it comes and maturing. But since men are more attracted to that it's more useful to women as a wife goggle binder!

Tldr: your post is spot on for flighty bad intentioned fuckboys looking for youthful ass to pound, but is not AMALT

Edit: word derp

ChadEsquire · 2018-11-08T04:53:47+00:00

Honestly, this is just the inverse of AWALT. It is logically flimsy and emotionally based. As a guy in his twenties, I am already tired of interacting with 18 year old women (so immature, christ). Saying that 16-22 year olds are who men most want to be with exaggerates the case for these survey findings. Women are perhaps most physically attractive in that range (seems a little early IMO). But a steep "wall" seems like a redpill revenge fantasy. In any case, a lot of other considerations beyond looks factor into any non-stupid mans thought process on serious relationships with women. Some men cheat, some women cheat. The best defense against this involves sharpening your bullshit detector, finding a good partner, and treating them right.

blackedoutfast · 2018-11-08T01:11:54+00:00

Where does the idea that men are the loyal ones and AWALT come from?

AWALT is entirely about female behavior. AWALT has nothing to do with male behavior. AWALT is not a comparison between men and women. AWALT does mean that all men are not like something.

RP talks about AWALT but not AMALT because RP are mostly men discussing the behaviors of women. we don't really care much about whatever all men are like.

maybe the lady RP sub cares about what AMALT. idk.

if you want to say that all men are capable of throwing away a good relationship to pursue sex with a hotter, younger girl or something like that as the AMALT equivalent of AWALT, i wouldn't argue with it.

maruthescruffydog · 2018-11-08T02:00:21+00:00

If you are going to claim that statistics show that men cheat more than women then, please cite your statistics that show men cheat more than women and I mean imperical peer reviewed statistics and not something from the Huffington post etc..

Civil_Seaworthiness · 2018-11-08T02:28:12+00:00

People, in general, are like that: 'that' being vulnerable to sociocultural norms when it comes to attraction. We don't make our own tastes, in general. We like the food we've been fed all of our lives, and women have Harrison Ford and men have whatever young woman is making doe eyes at Harrison Ford.

Age-homogomous couplings are on the rise, though, according to this easily-found study of seniors in Vancouver.

Of the 1.7 million senior couples in 2011, 49% were age-homogamous, up from 40% in 1981 (Chart 5). In comparison, when spouses or partners in a couple were both aged 65 or under, a higher proportion (62%) was age-homogamous, largely unchanged from 61% in 1981. Among age-homogamous senior couples in 2011, 85% were composed of both spouses and partners aged 65 and over.

If something is mutable over time, over a period of decades, it's probably not a biological fact but the result of changeable sociocultural dynamics that affect both men and women. All people are [susceptible to messaging] like that, though the world is changing and slowly favoring a diminishment of age gaps.

Cheating, another 'gap' you cite, is also a thing that people are like, but that some people have been taught is more acceptable than other people. This, too, is changing.

Between 2010 and 2016, a roughly equal number of married men and women (10% and 11%, respectively) cheated on their partners. This is a generational difference rather than an age difference. Norms are changing, so behavior is changing. All people are like that.

Men generally choose partners for their looks. Women generally choose partners for their looks. All people are like that. The more we can respect that people are just people, subject to differing instructions, values, practices, and gendered expectations, the better we can move on and build a society that accommodates everyone's needs.

TopOccasion29 · 2018-11-08T07:53:22+00:00

Of course AMALT as well. Most men would cheat on their partners with a younger, hotter version. Most of your male friends would try to get into your wife/ltr's pants as well.

KikiYuyu · 2018-11-08T02:44:25+00:00

Nice men exist. I've had the pleasure of knowing a few.

Eartherry · 2018-11-08T04:50:37+00:00

To them, women abandoning their gender role is disloyal. Working to support yourself or others, to them, is only something someone occupying the male gender role can do. That includes themselves. They otherwise wouldn't mind living in their parent's basements their entire lives. They only don't because of the social stigma, which they see as unfair as women don't have social stigma for abandoning their gender roles.

ThorLives · 2018-11-08T07:21:39+00:00

The statistics show quite plainly that men cheat more than women and the disparity between rates only increases with age.

Perhaps. From what I've seen, the statistics aren't that far apart because they've been getting closer and closer with each decade. Some people think that women are just lying about how much they're cheating (afterall, all cheating statistics rely on someone admitting that they cheated), and that it's really just reflecting how comfortable women are about admitting how much they cheat. In societies where women are more reliant on men as financial providers, women might be both more willing to lie about their infidelity (to avoid the consequences of being found-out) but might be too afraid of the consequences to actually cheat (which is also a self-interested reason for not cheating).

men all want the same wide eyed naivety of youth that they can mold to their own liking.

It's insulting for you to frame it as "that they can mold to their own liking ... easily manipulatable girl", and really just an attempt to vilify men. The reality is that men appreciate the energy and optimism of youth. A younger body is also more beautiful. (My theory is that it's evolutionary psychology - i.e. men have been evolutionarily selected to prefer women who are fertile; men who preferred post-menopausal women had their genes removed from the gene pool, while men who preferred women who were fertile left many children.) It has nothing to do with "molding to our liking" or "manipulating" women. That's just attempting to frame men's attraction to young women as evil.

AlanHalworth · 2018-11-08T13:05:44+00:00

Why do we not talk about AMALT? (1) More men have few opportunities to cheat, due to the 80/20 rule, (2) people blame women for infidelity because if you could convince some alphas to stop cheating, some other guys would rise up and take their place. It only takes a few cheating alphas to spoil it for everyone. If you want to end infidelity, you have to convince women, (3) everyone expects men to cheat, so they aren't surprised when men do it. Also, I think that in reality, NAWALT and NAMALT. AWALT is just an idea of men who were unlucky or approached the wrong kind of women and had enough bad experiences that they gave up.

HighResolutionSleep · 2018-11-08T20:37:39+00:00

I've never seen a red piller who had a pristine view of men's nature. Hell, the entire sub is basically a celebration and veneration of men's worst sexual traits, but this means that it's no better than feminism. What makes it more honest than feminism is that it doesn't pretend to be anything but or deny it in any way.

People don't need to be told that men suck. Everyone knows that men suck, and exactly why they suck. We hear all the time from the dominant culture that men suck, and even completely unfair reasons why men suck.

The big revelation is that women suck too, and aren't really deserving of men that don't suck.

This contention would make sense if we were living in a different culture, but we're not. This is the same reason that "WGTOW" makes no sense. There's nothing for women to walk away from. There is no system of legal traps and bindings and social pressures demanding that women serve men. It isn't an incoherent message, but it simply makes no sense in our current cultural context.

Barely-moral · 2018-11-08T01:25:43+00:00

Maybe enough men are like that. Not all. (It is the same logic that applies to AWALT)

Youth, and an upbeat attitude are appealing to most men, I will not deny that.

About the "easily manipulatable" I think is more a side effect of youth, not the main appeal. (Unless the man in question is a sociopath, in that case it could be the main appeal, but sociopaths are a minority)

the only thing keeping any older man loyal is a low SMV and lack of options to upgrade

No way. There are plenty of men that value the aspects that come with a LTR/Marriage. "Wife googles" are a thing.

celincelin · 2018-11-08T09:11:04+00:00

Bitch please.

I can't challenge your view, but you can do it on your own--go out of your basement once and see that the vast majority of women get laid, have LTRs and kids just fine.

Yes, perhaps you can't be a complete legbeard, life is tough.

abaxeron · 2018-11-09T16:09:51+00:00

It took me TOO LONG to compose the proper response, but here it is.

All Men Are Like That:

Go outside, approach a random dude of random age, appearance, and background, and tell him: "Excuse me sir, I'm really sad and lonely today, could I please have a hug?" - Approximately in 99% of the cases, you will get hugged. The remaining 1% will be not gays, but men who really don't have time.

All Women Are Like That:

Now I go outside, approach a random woman of random age, appearance, and background, and tell her: "Excuse me good lady, I'm really sad and lonely today, could I please have a hug?" - Approximately in 99% of the cases, I will get anything but the hug, varying from being ignored, to a bitch-slap, to getting police called on me.

Is "baseline fallacy" a thing? Because if I was to give names to fallacies, that's what I'd call it.

At least as I understand it, the hard-to-swallow part of The Red Pill is not that women like only top 20% of men; it's that women don't like EVEN THOSE 20% of men that much.

And the hard-to-swallow part of the red pill about AMALT - is not that men prefer "young, upbeat, easily manipulatable girl" (with perfectly squishy rear that you can push your fingertips in and pick her up that way during sex - damn, isn't all of this obvious anyway?!!!); it's that men will let themselves be manipulated even by old, fat, depressed, abusive, controlling cunt. They would prefer the squishy-rear option, but they will take the wobbly rear option. There are no alpha widowers among men.

So, saying that it's the same thing - is just like saying that men and women are equally physically strong because some of men and some of women do sports. It's... not what the word "same" means. And "women have greater variety of taste" thing - even if we assume it's the case, which it isn't, - would just mean that women hate, get disgusted by, and repulsed by men in different proportions and magnitudes. Except your dad who is awesome, your son Ayden who is your king, and your hot cousin who is kinda fine.

CanadianAsshole1 · 2018-11-08T02:59:20+00:00

the statistics show that men cheat more

I strongly doubt those statistics because there is already ample evidence that women are far more likely to lie about their sex lives. The study I linked shows that when they are told that they are linked to a lie detector machine, the average sexual partner count of women increases drastically, whereas for men it only increases slightly. It wouldn't be unreasonable to consider that women are also more likely to lie about infidelity.

azngirl7689 · 2018-11-08T01:36:54+00:00

Amen. Never give your all to a man. Always keep up your interests and career. Have a fuck off find in case you need to “fuck off” fast. Invest only as much as he invests in you- these men are fickle.

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-11-08T03:10:30+00:00

I love femcel rhetoric. We need more femcels

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Gravel_Roads · 2018-11-08T09:52:33+00:00

I've always said 90% of every demographic is an idiot or an asshole. All Humans Are Like That. That doesn't mean you only have a 10% chance of meeting someone decent -- a lot of those "idiots" are just fine. You just have to be willing to explain things in small words and repeat yourself. This is where most relationships fall apart. Patience is hard.

[deleted] · 2018-11-08T16:07:44+00:00

Wrong and correct. This would be true if it was lust, but in an older man, if he really likes his lady, he will stay with her. If you take away sex in a relationship, he’ll probably still stay because he really likes her. Only cheaters want manipulative women. You’re saying all men are cheaters until they find the most attractive woman. I highly disagree with that, but you are correct about a man wanting looks.

EDIT: there is something that keeps a relationship alive more than sexual attraction.

__Some_person__ · 2018-11-08T17:32:02+00:00

There is a difference between a man and a woman cheating.

daveofmars · 2018-11-09T00:04:13+00:00

The jury is still out as to who cheats more. From surveys, men cheat more, but women are more likely to lie on surveys. So it's anyone's guess.

men all want the same wide eyed naivety of youth that they can mold to their own liking

You're putting way too much thought into this. We don't want women we can manipulate - that's your projection. We want women who are hot. That's it.

agloelita · 2018-11-10T02:58:32+00:00

I apologize for my ignorance but i must ask what is amalt??

Science_Fanatic · 2018-11-11T11:24:39+00:00

How about people are just people and have different standards?

X58-home · 2018-11-08T02:03:54+00:00

Where does the idea that men are the loyal ones and AWALT come from?

The 80% of men who are more or less median males who buy into the idea of marriage, as presented by and understood in male terms. Till death do us part which carries an implicit belief that sex will continue with some degree of quality and quantity as they're having.

The belief they'll be able to work through problems and negotiate desire above the table.

They can do this because men are easy to arouse. Take a look at any place where prostitution is advertised, the quality, even for looks, of these women is fairly low. A woman that you'd rate as a "6" any day of the week is a solid 8 if she's a prostitute, but sexual availability is potent.

Men are easy to arouse and therefore maintain interest. And so, the male conception of marriage is in essence a male fantasy, because to a man, there is no flaw in this logic.

Except

You can't negotiate attraction (which negates "working through" issues of attraction)
Women are much more difficult to viscerally arous (which causes the conflict in the first place)
Women are always being offered sex by men and being pursued by men (which amplifies and agitates this conflict)

The statistics show quite plainly that men cheat more than women and the disparity between rates only increases with age.

I can only posit here, but my feelings are this. When younger, it is the "Chad" types that are cheating, because they are inundated with women. This concept is alien to "beta" men who work very hard to get a girlfriend, much less girlfriends.

However, it does seem that men over time have a tougher and tougher time avoiding being "red pilled" as women leave them and "upgrade" for other men, left with their dicks in hand and the burden of male romance they slowly trade that for a more pragmatic approach.

Until slowly, she is just a place where you put your penis, and if you can secure a steady supply then that's your home base, and while she or you is away, you play. If she finds out, you haven't lost your lover or the woman of your dreams, you've just lost your steady access to sex.

Like a woman who loses a loyal man who is good on paper but not bringing the heat, so what?

Well at least that was my path to not giving a fuck. Then my wife started joining in my escapades and it all worked out.

So I guess what I'm saying is, cheat on your wife and you can stop worrying about what she thinks, because women are stupid and I don't respect them, I just have sex with them.

Show me your genitals.

vicious_troll · 2018-11-08T08:24:09+00:00

We're polygamous by nature. We also value fertility (youth) and attractiveness very much, more than women do. But we're also humans who're able to control our insticts and make choices and we're defined by those choices.

Men who cheat are men who don't love or value their LTR for various reasons (e.g. they think she is stupid, unkind or has become fat), men who have given up on love as they've been stabbed in the back by women many times or men who're simply irresponsible and can't control their urges.

But I'm sure if you lowered your standards a little bit, you'd find many responsible men who value love with a quality woman and respect her and can control their urges.

ExtensionComplexion · 2018-11-08T09:19:11+00:00

I saw a study once that said women cheat more than men do (in that sample anyway). Don't know where it is though.

Men (and women) are attracted to youth because youth ---> health

Both men and women are most attracted to younger members of the opposite sex because they're more attractive and yes healthier.

I see plenty of men obsessed with older women (MILFs and cougars). I don't see any women obsessed with older (over 30) men unless their bank account balance has a fair few digits.

WiseMonkeyGoodMonkey · 2018-11-08T02:25:40+00:00

The statistics show quite plainly that men cheat more than women and the disparity between rates only increases with age.

Sauce?

stoopididoit · 2018-11-08T04:15:56+00:00

The statistics show quite plainly that men cheat more than women and the disparity between rates only increases with age.

False

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2018-11-08T09:22:02+00:00

easily manipulatable girl.

I agree with the general idea of AMALT as a heuristic just as I agree with the inverse, I think they're both valid.

However I do not agree with your negative framing here. I don't think most men specifically seek out women to manipulate them. I think some men do, but so do some women, and that's a minority in both sexes.

I usually don't like evopsych mumbo jumbo but I think it is a fair assumption that valuing youth comes from biology in at least some part. I don't think there is any need to assign malicious intent to it.

Likewise I do not believe most women deliberately marry men they don't find attractive just to divorce rape them either. I think some women do but it's a minority.

the only thing keeping any older man loyal is a low SMV and lack of options to upgrade.

Disagree here too. There is even a term in RP which is all about plating and anti-marriage... but even they admit there is "wife goggles."

Basically if you love a woman and grow old with her you still see her as attractive. I think men and women both do this and women have "husband goggles" as well for the most part.

As for the rest of it:

Men all want a young, upbeat ... girl. Men all value a woman's appearance above other qualities

This is fair to say yeah. Don't see what's wrong with any of that.

Title	AMALT
Author	Szymmy
Upvotes	32
Comments	195
Date	November 8, 2018 12:40 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9v583f/amalt/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/amalt.259157 https://theredarchive.com/post/259157

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