Are relationships becoming more openly transactional?

Gravel_Roads · 2022-12-13T11:46:28+00:00

I think people who want transactional relationships are having an easier time finding them. I think they're less looked down on than the old puritanical days.

They kinda have to, since they shut down Backpage and made it much harder to safely find hookers (and for hookers to safely find clients.)

There are still millions of people who don't like transactional relationships, tho, and I think in some ways they're finding it easier to weed out people who just want transactional relationships, because they're more overt about it.

Caetraaa · 2022-12-13T12:02:26+00:00

I think you're reading into a small minority of women who behave like that at applying it to the rest of us unfairly.

I personally am on a career track to be paid very well after I graduate with my masters degree, and would be fine with someone who wanted to be a stay at home partner (because I don't like cooking). Wealth means nothing to me, it's not a factor at all in my interest.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-12-13T11:17:49+00:00

It's because you're spending more time in pilled spaces online. Get into the real world.

GhostofCamus · 2022-12-13T11:24:19+00:00

The vast majority of people merely want a secure partnership they feel wanted in, and a home of some sort. Those people meet each other fast, so the dating scene can seem very skewed for those who like people for more than what they give us.

Affectionate_Pen_623 · 2022-12-13T11:29:27+00:00

Relationships have been transactional from the past 2000 years if I'm not wrong. Woman valued money, outer resources and roof on the head for herself and her offspring. Man valued beauty, purity, fertility and love for himself and his family. Moreover, I think that these transactions are the reason why relationships were valuable.

In today's world however, men and women both bring nothing on the table but shite. No maturity for future offspring, no money and hardwork by the man and no fertility and purity by the woman. Hence the reason why people are unhappy with relationships. There is nothing transactional in today's relationship. So being in a relationship is not benefiting anyone.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2022-12-13T16:09:31+00:00

I can’t imagine being in that type of relationship it sounds so depressing

suj1290 · 2022-12-13T14:55:56+00:00

Yup they always have been. Maybe first or second relationship are out of love.Rest others are completely transactional

urukshai3 · 2022-12-13T11:46:40+00:00

Kinda.

I think they were always transactional but decorated.

All the "Disney love" bullshit we were fed off is falling apart quickly.

Not saying real, actual love don't exist, but the romantic shit is being seen as the facade it is.

Laurely4u · 2022-12-13T12:23:06+00:00

Now I see men openly admitting they are after pussy. That used to be shameful. In the past they made a pretext of an actual courtship.

bottleblank · 2022-12-13T11:02:15+00:00

Yeah, OK, but what are you bringing to the table?

I jest. Somewhat. That's something that's largely said within these gender/relationship discussions, which are something of a bubble, in that context it certainly reads as very transactional.

Out in the real world? I'm not sure. In some sense relationships are always transactional, if you dig into them deep enough. At the end of the day we like people who can give us things and make us feel good things.

It's not as outright transactional as paying for intimacy, like a sugar relationship, or a sex worker/"girlfriend experience", but it's still ultimately reliant on two people finding enough value in each other to feel it's "worth it" to be with them.

I'm not exactly surrounded by people in relationships at the moment, so I don't have any deep insight, but generally I don't get the impression from the people I do know in relationships that they're openly transactional, they seem pretty "normal" relationships to me, involving finding value in each other's intrinsic... humanity? personality? whatever it is. But I'm looking in from the outside, and I don't see them often at the moment, so what do I know?

gofigure62 · 2022-12-13T15:11:33+00:00

The line of reasoning that relationships are only transaction is reductive. And the line of reasoning that no one should expect anything at all in a relationship is reductive.

Relationships are supposed to be mutually beneficial to both parties. And each individual can set whatever boundaries, parameters, and expectations to what they find beneficial as an individual.

It doesn't make sense to be in a relationship where your partner will never do anything for you or with you unless you pay in some way or fashion immediately.

It doesn't make sense to be in a relationship where your partner does absolutely nothing regardless of whether you do or don't do something.

Frankly, the internet has just shown how remedial and small minded most people are. Most people are incapable of chewing gum and walking at the same time. And the internet simply allows these people a platform to tell the world how they're incapable of reason and don't know what mutually beneficial relationships entail.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2022-12-13T15:52:33+00:00

The most transactional time in history for relationships was prior to romanticism.

Affectionate_Pen_623 · 2022-12-13T11:22:37+00:00

Nope.

I have noticed that people are more ready to admit the transactional dynamic of relationships. Being a gold-digger used to be shameful. Now I see women openly admitting that they are after money and there are even female dating gurus that teach you how to find and lock down "wealthy men". (so literally gold-digging gurus).

Laughable.

No, relationships have not become more transactional. If anything, they've become less so. The problem is, the proliferation of social media has meant that people grandstand more than ever.

I earn a shitload of money, salary wise. Top 1-2% income. I honestly cannot say its done wonders for me in terms of my attractiveness. I mean, don't get me wrong I've done extremely well and I may not be single but even when looking at other couples, I don't see much hypergamy that incels/redpillers complain about. My friend earns even more than me (drives a nice 22 plate mercedes and lives in a damn near mansion) and he says the same. Again, he's not struggling to meet women but a girl he was seeing went back to fucking her weed dealer when she felt he wasn't giving her the requisite attention she needed to feel secure in their little engagement. And, having said that, I met my girl when I was pretty poor. I can't imagine how intimidating it must be as a younger woman knowing the guy you're dating has all the power financially. My girlfriend complains about the power dynamic and we've been together for a while.

Don't get me wrong, it does help. But not in the way many think.

There are many studies that show that women are more sensitive to economic cues when it comes to dating and that men value beauty and signs of fertility in their partner.

The problem with citing these studies is the fact that we don't know what control measures were in place. What age brackets to these women belong to? Their income. Their class. Their education level. What I think many don't realise is that if you're finding the women you see are opting for largely successful men then you're likely shooting above your paygrade. Because, I can honestly say that more women than ever are supporting live-in, broke boyfriends and husbands whilst the single income household numbers are higher than ever. You're likely getting distracted by...

The "stacies" who can demand physically attractive and successful men because they're at the top of the social heirarchy.
As someone aptly put it, the "twitter fingers" types who make grand proclamations about their endless criteria for potential suitors whilst routinely getting fucked and chucked by Tinder dates who won't even take them out for a drink in a public setting.

I just don't get this logic, things are not as hard as you think. I remember when I was single not too long ago, I would actually have more women willing to meet me for "netflix and chill" whilst most would actually flake if I offered to take them for a meal out at a nice place, likely because they would feel obligated if I did such a thing. Which isn't really the behaviour of a woman used to transactional relationships with high expectations for a mans income.

BruddaMSK · 2022-12-13T15:44:26+00:00

No, in fact the trend is quite opposite, I believe the number of relationships which are purely about love and passion is all-time high, at least since the Neolithic revolution or even longer. And this is the key of all male bitterness.

Now in the age of internet you just have access to the amount of 3rd party experience previously unimaginable; everything about everything is exposed and could be studied without any effort. Like you can go to reddit and ask people of different cultures about matters you're interested in, you have unrealistic insight of other people private lives (through social media) etc.
More things used to be hidden before, although those who wished to know always knew.

kennyfern · 2022-12-13T14:30:20+00:00

Maybe for men who see women as things they can pay for and use as they like. For real human beings no.

mvnnyvevwofrb · 2022-12-14T00:27:06+00:00

The most transactional creatures in existence are feminists and narcissist women. Feminists and narcissists women take hypergamy and the transactional nature of relationships to the logical extreme.

x_pyromance · 2022-12-13T10:59:28+00:00

HolyPipidastra · 2022-12-13T12:02:06+00:00

“Especially women”

Bro lives in the pre TRP world.

Lumpy_Secret_6359 · 2022-12-13T15:28:21+00:00

Things are expensive now a days, you cant live off the average income if only one person is earning it. & its even difficult if two people are earning average income full time. Me for example, i want to be a good mother, and be there for my children, and be able to be present at home to take care of house duties/my husband. If i settled with a man on average income, i wouldnt be able to do this. therefore i want someone who earns more than average so that I can have the life i want and also my children can have the life I want them to have. & so that i can be the best wife for my husband. I don’t want money struggles my whole life. I don’t think its ‘gold digging’ at all (to want the best life for my future children) The women who don’t want children and still want that type of man are gold diggers.

HighestTierMaslow · 2022-12-13T16:49:02+00:00

Men have very high standards nowadays. Men now focus on income almost as much as looks/personality/agreeableness. So I think your post is false.

I dated a ton in my 20s on OLD apps. I find a very large chunk of men off of OLD expect this list of criteria from their partner: (alot of this stems from women are held to higher social standards than men, yet the income disparity is going away which benefits men alot more now as they dont need to worry about being a sole provider)

-to be attractive, most men want a woman more attractive than them in terms of leagues or else he can do better.

-she must be honest, loyal while he really isnt ("boys will be boys" still permeates men today, its more acceptable for men to be disrespectful)

-she must be a good conversationalist when he struggles with this

-she must have interesting hobbies while all he does is play video games and watch sports.

-she cannot have any contact with past exes/hookups while he can

-she cannot have too much casual sex in her past while he can

-she must be very good in bed, and be ok with it being one sided at times because "men"

-she must be financially stable so he doesnt have to pay for her. While Im happy feminism gave women equal opportunity for money, all it did was burden women more because now we have another criteria to meet when our list is already longer than mens list

-she must be emotionally supportive at all times while he doesnt need to be, because "men"

-she must put up with his family (often times they are toxic/mean) but he prefers to not spend time with her more normal family

-she must be willing to be around his friends whenever he wants but not the reverse

-many (this is the only criteria on the list that doesnt apply to the majority of men) will nitpick your intelligence too if it doesnt exactly match theirs.

They are a DIME A DOZEN on OLD.

Japaliicious · 2022-12-13T20:29:37+00:00

If anything relationships are less transactional because women got the freedom to pursue their own future instead of needing a man. So decent women when with a man will be with them by their own volation (I'm not talking about how the SMV works, just a note).

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Georgist_Muddlehead · 2022-12-13T13:41:22+00:00

Over what time period? Relationships seem less transactional than in the days when it was more difficult for single people (especially women) to support themselves. Is the trend reversing a little more recently?

I thought they are still not very transactional, but the proportion of people in relationships is falling (so perhaps there is an increase in people viewing relationships transactionally, and that's why some of them are single)

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-12-13T13:57:53+00:00

Here is an educational video that talks about how "dating" and courting became, and how it is consumerism.

West-Ad-9697 · 2022-12-13T17:04:20+00:00

May I remind you that marriage is literally human trafficking in origin?

Seriously mate - the concept of love is very recent - like 200 years. The concept of freely marrying for love was a posh middle class fantasy for even the most liberal of societies until the last 2-3 generations of women.

I think transactional pragmatism is having a resurgence because too many people realized the "all you need is love" is a fucking pipe dream.

RocinanteCoffee · 2022-12-13T17:42:12+00:00

For almost 2 decades now, the manosphere has been pointing out that heterosexual relationships are largely transactional, that men provide money status and women provide sex and company.

This is actually less true than ever before. Previously marriage and courtship were business transactions arranged mostly by the pressure and cultivation of the parents of the couple, as well as the influence of a local church in some cases.

Women were not allowed to work in many jobs that they could survive on, it wasn't even readily available to most of the public for women to have their own credit cards until the '80s, they had to rely on finding a husband for food and shelter.

Today, women have more opportunities to provide for themselves. They are more free to escape a transactional contract where they were basically sold to a husband and reliant on him.

Now granted, it's difficult to survive on one income. 99% of people in the US regardless of gender won't be making six figures and even if you are making millions, one bad health scare can bankrupt you.

It seems the standard is more on finding a mate not who is wealthy but who is financially responsible.

I have noticed that people are more ready to admit the transactional dynamic of relationships. Being a gold-digger used to be shameful. Now I see women openly admitting that they are after money and there are even female dating gurus that teach you how to find and lock down "wealthy men". (so literally gold-digging gurus).

This is actually less common than previous decades. Even sugaring isn't as common (and sugaring isn't about gold-digging, it's about an honest agreement between two parties and is still a small minority of couplings).

Women are beginning to outearn men in some sectors. We have more kept men/stay at home husbands than ever before. So obviously those women aren't in it for his money.

There will be wealth-seekers through every decade, but it's less transactional now than before. Previously your town wouldn't even allow you to date eligible girls until you had your own home and brought in a decent income.

14ers4days · 2022-12-13T18:51:50+00:00

Marriage has always been a business transaction. The later half of the 20'th century was obsessed with love, romance and feelings of attraction. I suppose we are coming out of that and entering back into a more utilitarian mindset. Nothing wrong with that, of course. Maybe the next generations will be better and picking partners and actually staying together.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-12-13T19:29:41+00:00

They're more reciprocal than before. Women earn more and have higher status than ever so the vast majority provide money and status. Women are more able to choose men they like and enjoy having sex with so men are expected to provide sex and company.

cuteTroublexo · 2022-12-13T19:31:47+00:00

After dating a southern guy and feeling more like a utility to him than a girlfriend, YES I can say that relationships are more openly transactional.

It does not change my pursuit for a cute, golden retriever bf, and a relationship built on attraction and love. It just makes it a lot harder.

serafixed · 2022-12-13T19:57:26+00:00

No. They were more transactional when women were discouraged and prevented from full time employment

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2022-12-13T20:20:33+00:00

No, it's just ridiculous femcels and redpills who are talking about it as transactional.

Most people have sex and date like normal people and don't trade sex for love or money.

But a lot of femcels and redpills want to be or to be with covert prostitutes I guess 🤷‍♂️

Ohmaygahh · 2022-12-14T16:17:14+00:00

Women weren't able to articulate this with the vocabulary we have today, but it still was transactional.

The early RP guys, (Ross Jeffrey and beyond) have definitely paved the way to the discussion we're having now

Title	Are relationships becoming more openly transactional?
Author	Novel-Tip-7570
Upvotes	32
Comments	94
Date	December 13, 2022 10:52 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/zksuoo/are_relationships_becoming_more_openly/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-relationships-becoming-more-openly.1144037 https://theredarchive.com/post/1144037

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