Off Topic Thread: Feminism (22 June 2019)

AutoModerator · 2019-06-22T18:09:48+00:00

For some reason y'all seem incredibly keen to discuss feminism. Normally unless its directly related to RP/Relationships/Getting Laid we consider it...

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Feminism's first roots started in the temperance movement: where women tried very hard to improve their lot by fixing beaty, drinky men.

http://montanawomenshistory.org/cultivating-female-reform-the-montana-womans-christian-temperance-union/

"They challenged the traditional idea that a woman’s place was in the home, suggesting instead that society had become so morally corrupt that it required women’s political participation. They drew on the Victorian idea of women’s natural moral superiority to make the case that women had to take the lead in reform."

Two takeaways:

Sounds a lot like Elizabeth "Fauxcahontas" Warren and Alexandria "Crazy Eyes" Occasional-Cortex lecturing "old white men" about how we're a rich enough country to give everyone a free house and a pony even if they don't want to work by "taxing all the rich people" doesn't it?
Note that the idea stems from the idea that a man's natural state is brutish and prone to beating women and drinking and that women, because of their innate superiority, must be given dominion over men for this to change.

So, this naturally led to the Suffragette movement, which decided to seek women getting political power to achieve these aims

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2380455?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

"that woman's nature is morally superior to and mysteriously different from the ... Chapman Catt, head of the National American Women Suffrage Association"

Once women got the vote, that wasn't enough - they decided to invest time and energy into inventing a new female supremacist religion with the idea of promoting equality of outcome for women. Sure, they were weaker, smaller, prone to pushing out babies and far more interested in sitting around telling other people what to do rather than getting on with the real hard work, so they decided to form a man hating, proto-communist pseudo-social science with an aim to obtaining "equality" for women.

> https://socialistworker.org/2013/01/31/marxism-feminism-and-womens-liberation

Of course, Karl Marx neglected his wife, is rumored to have beaten her and kids and fathered a kid with another woman. But hey, even though he was a sexually harassing pig.... https://www.spartareport.com/2017/12/leftist-icon-karl-marx-sexually-harassed-impregnated-workplace-subordinate-really-true-fact/

Jenny Marx was born into an aristocratic family, for the record - showing that girls rebelling against their parents and running off with a guy who's totally against every value they tried to instil in her isn't a new thing.

Out of Marxism came the idea of class-struggle. They just did a boring cut-and-paste. Instead of "bourgeoisie" and "proletariat" - they put "patriarchy" and "poor downtrodden women" into Marxist theory of the latter overhtrowing the evil former.

Which is why I think it's really funny when some chick goes "oh my GHOD, we don't HATE MEN, GAWSH! STRAW FEMINIST! STRAW FEMINIST! We don't HATE MEN, we just want EQUALITY!"

Then you ask them what rights they don't have? I'm sorry, can women not work? Not own property? Not have free speech? Not have the right to assemble? Are they frequently searched illegally?

When they realize that they DO have equality (but as we know, equality doesn't give them free stuff at men's expense and the chance to hate men) in comes the "well you're just a woman hating, misogynistic transphobe sexist homophobe who obviously has a small dick and lives with mom's basement...."

Feminism has always had in its DNA the idea that men are brutal scum that need to be controlled by women at all times, because they are inferior creatures. It's hard wired into the DNA of feminism, it was like that from Day One.

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My hypotheses based on a lot of the reading I've done is:

Men slowly forgot the historical evidence of how women in power, or with power, act. They became convinced that women were not capable of cruelty and women encouraged this perception by adopting fragile and helpless mannerisms.

Women are mirrors, men saw in them the same loyalty, honor, and nobility that they saw in themselves. Society was segregated by gender for a long while so men did not really know what women were like in the company of other women and no woman was foolish enough to show her true colors in mixed company.

It seemed appropriate for the elevation of individual rights and liberty to apply to all peoples, they were applied to poor white men, then slaves, so why not women?

It appears that men one day decided that women were capable of understanding the value of free speech and debate in society. Thus, when women were crafting extreme philosophies, the men believed that they could be debated with and some kind of compromise could be reached. Eventually it was too late and these extreme philosophies had been threaded into the laws and cultures of our society. Women are very good at appearing agreeable while implementing their own agendas.

New generations of men believe that the society that they are born into is the normal way that things ought to operate and become baffled when older men, or more aware men, try to fight it.

In short, to give credit where credit is due, women are phenomenal at psychological warfare and covert operations. Forget government, women should be running black ops.

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But women are never happy. In fact, they're LESS happy now than they ever were in that horrible, EEEEVIL misogyny patriarchy they had to endure back in the 1950s.

In fact, a woman's biggest problem was boredom. She could get all the house chores done in about an hour thanks to an army of robots and labor saving devices, cake mixes and so forth. Men went dutifully out to work and earned a good wage and women had basically all day to meet with friends and kvetch. And if soapies and coffee mornings and stuff couldn't quite cut through the terrible burden of having nothing to do all day except whatever she wanted, doctors handed out DRUGS like candy.

The Rolling Stones did a song called "Mother's Little Helper" about the terrible tragedy of the suburban housewife, whose life was so easy she wanted (and got!) high-octane pharmaceutical opiates to make her warm and happy.

Recap: all you had to do was run a cloth over the formica after a breakfast of something poured out of a box, and then you could sit around all day stoned watching TV while someone else brought home the bacon.

Why did feminists think they could improve on this?

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put your money where your mouth is: Be interesting, don't expect princess treatment, or accommodation for issues and behavior I don't tolerate or see much in men. Don't fall into patterns of thought and behavior that fall totally in line with what would be expected if your psychology was somewhat determined by gender. Be able to handle yourself as well as I can.

I literally do all of this. I have hobbies and interests and passions. I have a job that is usually done by men. People see me show up and assume I am not there to do said job because of my gender and how I look (doesn't help that I look way younger than I am too). I end up doing it better than most men and they end up impressed.

However it took me years to get to this point. Because my whole life, media, people, (including my parents), sent me messages that I should be and act a certain way. It took a long time to unlearn and I'm finally there (well almost, but always a work in progress, of course)

You should listen to the Bechdel cast. It's a podcast about how women are portrayed in movies, old and new. It opened my eyes so much to the fucked up messaging women receive their entire life.

I understand some women were not fortunate enough to have all the same opportunities to figure things out like I did.

The best thing you can do is empower women by encouraging their strengths and recognizing their achievements. Not looking down on them for unintentionally being products of the messaging they've received their whole lives. That's feminism.

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When feminists advocate for equal treatment, do they speak of being treated like the bottom of the hierarchy , middle of the hierarchy or the top of the hierarchy? Mainly what I see is feminists complaining about there not being an equal amount of women at the top of the hierarchy, CEOs politicians etc, without even examining the reason why there are more men at the top. They look at the men who have garnered respect are treated and dont realise they were not given that respect simply for being male, most men are not inherently respected, it is something that is earned. Women only see the priveleges and not the work that went into obtaining those priveleges, while simultaneously ignoring the lives on men at the bottom of the hierarchy. Average women do not compare their treatment to average men. Low tier women do not compare their treatment to low tier men. All of them compare their treatment to top tier men. Feminists want women to have Chad privelege, without male responsibility and completely discount the fact that there are more men lower on the hierarchy then women. Just look at the homeless population.

In a meritocracy, women are not equally represented at the top of the hierarchies, because men and women's ability arent equal, and women on average do not take the same risks as men. The mean intelligence between men and women is roughly the same, but men are disproportionately represented on both the low and high ends of the spectrum whereas women are more clustered toward the average. Meaning, more male high achievers but also more male losers. Feminists focus on the former and discount the latter. Men take bigger risks, which means more men who lose big but also more men who win big.

https://heterodoxacademy.org/the-greater-male-variability-hypothesis/

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There are large numbers of women being exploited by the pornography industry, this absolute benefits men

What?!? How in the world does women being exploited in the porn industry benefit men??

Just repeating "apex fallacy" over and over again is not really an argument

Yes, it actually is. I'm arguing that you're applying a concept and saying it benefits "men" as a whole when it actually just benefits a small number of people, some of whom are men.

Can you give me something of substance to work with here?

Really it breaks down to unfettered hypergamy from the female perspective and the maximizing of AF/BB. Before casual sex was the norm, the bottom percentage of men (bottom 10-40%) had a much better chance of obtaining sex/relationships.

Additionally, this is where the incel movement came from. Sexless optionless men leads to violence and is bad for society.

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However, that freedom comes at a societal cost.

I think we're better off accepting that higher hypergamy correlates to more incels and see how we can address the problem without taking away women's freedoms. Legalizing sex work is my top vote.

I think this topic is actually really interesting, but no one ever honestly talks about it. In my opinion, incels will not feel any better when their only option is to pay for sex. Men need relationships and meaningful sex too.

But as you said, the only other option is to control women and restrict female sexuality. But we kind of already do that. Monogamy at it's core is about controlling your partners sexuality.

Taken to it's logical conclusion, complete sexual freedom for women would result in permanent cuckoldry with women having boyfriends/husband's as the provider and father, while getting off elsewhere. And any attempt to control her sexuality would be "restricting female sexuality" which as you pointed out feels wrong.

Additionally, I don't think we like to admit the very real phenomenon that men who aren't getting laid/getting girls will turn to violence. It's shown time and time again in society and in nature (testosterone is a hell of a drug), and I don't think it's something easily rid of by saying "men need to control themselves". Further distancing of the sex gap between the haves and have nots will increase violence in society.

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Women do not want to be treated like men. They want to be treated like Chad. Feminism is an apex fallacy. Most men are treated like shit. If men treated women like men, women would be getting knocked out in broad daylight constantly. With all the stuck up bratty bitches I see acting out against men, because they know they wont get hit back (because MEN in blue uniforms will come to save her. Or whiteknight MEN). If man acted the same way hes gunna get beat up pretty soon, especially if he was way smaller and weaker. Theyd also be getting called a faggot and bullied for constantly being a stick in the mud.

When women agree to start giving up some of their priveleges, I will consider supporting equality. I am happy to see the pendulum finally start swinging the other way. Feminism had been at terminal velocity since 2012.

Heres for another orange man victory.

Honestly, Id be okay if Creepy Uncle Joe won too. Just as long as we dont have a woman president. Dont worry, we wont. Id rather have the magic conch from spongebob in the whitehouse.

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Feminism has been irrelevant for years.

Women already have equal rights and equal protection under the law. Sure, some people are still bigoted, but some people hate blacks, some people hate Jews, some people hate whites, some people hate men. The bigoted people who hate women aren't any worse than the bigoted people who hate anybody else.

Feminism is so irrelevant that they had to give up being just feminists and jump into intersectionality. Because women don't face real problems. Especially not first world women. Some guy on the subway spreads his legs too far apart when he sits and it's an offensive microaggression? Yeah, even feminists think that's silly.

So they've taken over gay issues, black issues - pretty much the issues of every single minority everywhere - and claim that feminism is all about that, too. Any time any non white christian male has any kind of issue, per the rules of intersectionality, feminists get to make that about themselves.

Feminism stopped being a pro-woman movement years ago. It's an anti-man movement now. Primarily an anti white christian man movement.

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It's a difficult feeling to reconcile. I'd never hurt anybody. Nobody I know would ever hurt anybody. And in my logical brain, I know that 99.9999 percent of men are completely safe around a young daughter of mine.

But if my daughter was lost in a supermarket, I'd want her to find a mother with children to ask for help and avoid men.

The story we're told is that society is anti-woman and that we need feminism to free women from the evils of society, but the truth is that having been raised in this society for nearly 40 years, my biases and the biases of my entire generation are against men.

And when I can say something like "I'd rather my daughter look for a mother with kids instead of a man if she's lost", and everyone says, "Of course! That's very smart!", with the unspoken addition being that you can't trust men, that solidifies it.

We live in an anti-man society, not an anti-woman society. And part of the anti-man tools society uses is to pretend we're all anti-woman.

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That's the same mentality as crossing to the other side of the street at night so you don't walk too close to a black guy, because black guys are more likely to rob you. But people who do that are racist.

Or the same mentality as not hiring a qualified married 23-year-old woman out of college because you know she's just going to get pregnant any minute anyway. Because that's what women do.

If I assume a Hispanic person I see doesn't know English because overwhelmingly, they're the group of people who don't know English more than any other group in the country - I mean come on, all white guys know English - then I'm bigoted.

The idea that we can just tacitly accept that men rape, so stay away from men, and that's okay. But blacks steal and hispanics don't know english and women aren't good employees isn't okay? That's why society is anti-man.

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Yes, I imagine they face discrimination, too.

The thing is, as far as I can tell, men haven't waged a 50+ year campaign fighting for the right to do work that traditionally has been the province of the opposite gender. This is why it's so frustrating for us. Society should be used to it by now. It shouldn't be a big deal for women to occupy these positions.

An encounter I had recently may shed some light on what I'm talking about. I was in the auto parts store, buying brake parts, and the person ringing me up happened to be a woman. We got to chatting and I said it must be tough to do her job because of gender prejudice. She said, "You wouldn't believe how many men come in here and walk right past me and go to one of the men for assistance. The funny thing is, I'm the assistant manager here and the young guys are constantly coming to me and asking me how to do stuff." We shared a rueful laugh over this.

Later I had to go back to get my core deposit refunded on the calipers. This time, I had a male cashier, who turned to the assistant manager for help processing the transaction. He joked to me, "I can't keep track of all of these procedures. I just ask her to do it!" And she and I both rolled our eyes ...

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That's an interesting question. They probably would have been more willing. From their perspective, it would be important for a man to have a good job. But no one was going to hire a woman to do anything significant, so why even bother? My parents' advice to me was to take the civil service test and try to get into the Post Office, the way my dad had.

After my parents died, I was going through their papers, and found the results of a Stanford Binet that had been administered while I was in grade school. My I.Q. tested at 148. I got the third-highest score in the school on the PSAT in my freshman year (never bothered taking the full SAT or ACT because by then, I had already concluded it was hopeless). I had no idea how to apply for scholarships. It's really hard for working-class kids who have no guidance and aren't 'special' in some way (like athletic talent) that makes them appealing to teachers or guidance counselors. I just drifted.

[–]SkookumTree2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girl2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well, there is another component to this as well. In the blue-collar, union-job world in which I grew up, college-educated people weren't really admired or emulated. My father referred to them as "eggheads." An educated person was the boss who made your life miserable, or the efficiency expert who sped up the assembly line, or the engineer who proposed a clunky, cumbersome solution to a problem. They were the upper-class clientele that you waited on or served, obeying the mantra "the customer is always right," no matter how big of a pain in the ass they were! So my parents were not enthusiastic about having me join the ranks of what they viewed as educated idiots.

A story, perhaps apocryphal, illustrates the attitude my parents and their social circle had toward the college-educated. Here is how it was told to me:

At the aspirin factory, the last step in production was packaging. A machine was supposed to insert the bottle into a box and glue it shut, but sometimes the machine hiccuped and sealed and shipped an empty box. Retailers were not pleased, so engineers were sent in to study the problem.

After touring the line, taking measurements, etc., they came up with a solution. A scale was added near the end of the line. If a lightweight empty box hit it, it would stop the line and trigger an alarm, alerting a factory worker to remove it, log the problem and restart the line.

A week after implementation, the engineers consulted the log and declared the problem solved! Their solution was working flawlessly. Several times an hour, the scale would detect an empty box and the worker would remove it. However, when they checked back the following week, the log book was empty! An engineer went down to the factory floor to see what was going on. He discovered the worker had sent up a box fan to blow the empty boxes off the line before they reached the scale.

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Sigh. I hate the "li'l lady" B.S. Yeah, I'm actually capable of carrying my tools, thanks. I do it all the time!

I think the worst part was calling another contractor who operates in this area to see if I might be able to sub some work from him. I had emailed him explaining that I was already working for XYZ firm, had been doing so for a year, and would like to pick up a few more jobs. When we talked on the phone, he laid out the way he operates, but then asked, "Don't you have trouble doing the work? Because we don't use power post hole augers ..." Yeah, neither do I, dude. Digging an 18" post hole isn't exactly rocket science. Sigh.

It ended up that his company structure wasn't really a good fit for me, but even if it had been, I was so put off by his attitude that I'm not sure I would have wanted to work for him. I can see maybe questioning someone who has never done the job before but, hello? Been doing it for a year! D'oh ...

[–]chocolatchauud 1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]CainPrice10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Emancipation from what? Women already have equal rights.

They vote, have jobs, own property, can file for divorce, have casual sex, deny sex to their husbands and file charges for marital rape, abort children (without informing husbands there was ever a pregnancy), have children (without informing fathers there was ever a pregnancy - and even go after the fathers for money years later).

Women are already free. It's not Victorian England and hasn't been for centuries. The expected female gender role of 1930 was abolished long ago.

The only chains women face today are biological. Men are stronger.

If a man really wants to, he can beat, rape, rob, or kill most women he comes across. 99.99999% of men would never even consider that. But any one man potentially could.

As a result, women spend every hour of every day feeling a constant, low-grade...if not fear, at least an awareness of the men in the room. There's always this dull awareness that women are dependent upon men behaving well, and that the only reason a woman ever gets anywhere safely or has any rights or any boundaries is because men are choosing to behave well.

Women constantly feel powerless. Feminism is women lashing out at this constant feeling of powerlessness. Attempting to use social engineering to try to compensate for the biological fact that men are stronger and could take it all away if they really wanted.

If men wanted women to be chained up in the basement, that's exactly where women would be. Because women are too weak to stop them. The reason women aren't in chains is because men don't want that.

[–]Ascimatorsmirks audibly3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

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Abortion is a philosophically gray issue with lots of good arguments on both sides. As well as lots of extreme positions on both sides.

The fact that some southern state has an anti-abortion stance, when being anti-abortion is every bit as logical and well-supported of a position as being pro-choice, is hardly an grand-scale effort to "subjugate" women. If you, personally, think that being anti-abortion is a completely unsupported and bigoted and crazy position to take and that there are zero good arguments in favor of being anti-abortion, you would fall under one of those crazy and extreme positions on the pro-choice side. Most pro-choice people at least concede that there are many strong arguments in favor of the anti-abortion side, but they believe things weigh in favor of the pro-choice side. People who fanatically think that the anti-abortion side is just a bunch of crazy radical religious rednecks who hate women and that there is absolutely zero logic or rationality to that entire side of the debate are loony.

So what other issues are rattling you that have you worried that women are being chained up and their rights stripped?

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I may have been expressing myself wrongly, the correct concept is that the feminist community does not accept well not taking the entire set as a whole.

for example, if a woman try to say they have some different view or preference in a core set of feminism, they face pushback from the community.

the ideology in itself does not ask to get the entire set (like some other ideologies) just the community is like that.

for example, lacy green, and the time she tried to hear, not join, just hear the men's side. She was so harassed that she stopped making videos for a long while and became ostracized.

the same happened with the woman who made "the red pill" film. the woman who wrote "self made man" and experienced being a man for some months and many, many trans who experienced our side....To the feminist community, for an outsider view like me, or you are in their side or you are an enemy.

Are you gonna say that the community accept choosing different ideas easily? may we make an experiment to test such hypothesis?

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I don't know. Is it just that up until today, several dozen nations still rely on conscripts to defend themselves, and only a handful of them draft women? Is it just that resources are scarce, and someone has to produce them? Is it just that non-smokers of good moral character sometimes die of lung cancer?

A LOT of things that governments have done to their men, were necessary. But, in A LOT of instances, excluding women from the same treatment was NOT necessary.

Everyone agrees that ideally, everybody should just get along; maybe except Hitler, but he's dead. Can we get back into adult realm now? Where resources are scarce, peace needs to be defended, and the demographic that produces minority of goods and services, pays minority of taxes, consumes majority of welfare, and is immune to obligations to the state - also constitutes majority of voters.

[–]Ascimatorsmirks audibly3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"...therefore, let's keep all the heartlessness densely concentrated on men's shoulders"?

Screw conscription; the US social security system transfers around $70 billion annually from men to women. And women who are retired now - many of them! - were second-wave feminists in the 1960s-1980s. $70 billion. ANNUALLY.

I've put a lot of thought into it, and my position crystallized into this: "I should not be forced to support women that hate me at the expense of my family". And this is something that, I believe, I should not even justify. It's obvious.

Not to mention that I'm not American; my country gave women the right to vote earlier than the US, instituted conscription after women were given the right to vote, has higher marriage failure rate, and women's retirement age set lower than men's (despite quite prominent life expectancy gap).

We have quite different baselines here. You seem to think that what's happening now is the norm, but no; what's happening now is the land of twisted insane radical feminist utopia by the standards of the 1970s.

[–]Ascimatorsmirks audibly3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"...therefore, let's keep all the heartlessness densely concentrated on men's shoulders"?

Therefore, if we're really between a rock and a tight place and can't afford to not be heartless, we can't afford to not be pragmatic either. If I were a dictator of a small war-torn country and I knew women can be useful in combat despite the stereotypes, I'd send them to battle too.

And if we can in fact afford to not be heartless, then by all means take it off men's shoulders, but why do you expect feminists to do all the work in relieving men from their burden?

the US social security system transfers around $70 billion annually from men to women. And women who are retired now - many of them! - were second-wave feminists in the 1960s-1980s. $70 billion. ANNUALLY.

This is basically a rounding error in relation to the total budget, to my best knowledge. These are some interesting calculation methodology you've got here, though. Some unspecified "many" women "were second-wave feminists" 60 years ago. How many? To what extent did they belong to second-wave feminism? How many are still the man-hating harpies you're making them out to be?

"I should not be forced to support women that hate me at the expense of my family".

Boy, wait until you find out about all the men you've been supporting who hate you. And not just "went to a radfem rally 60 years ago" hate you, either.

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

we can't afford to not be pragmatic either.

How many countries suffering from below-replacement fertility have started forcing women to have babies? - Still zero. How many countries suffering from budget deficit have raised women's retirement age above men's in accordance with their greater expected lifespan? - Still zero. Despite both of these measures being pragmatic. How many departments of UN are dedicated to male-specific issues? - Still zero. Despite it being heartless.

To be honest, Yes, in the 1960s, there was Romania that tried to force women to have babies. The politician who instituted this unpopular measure was shot like a rabid dog, along with his most loyal assistant who was also his wife.

We're already pragmatic when it benefits women and heartless when it benefits women. I am open to counter-examples.

And if we can in fact afford to not be heartless, then by all means take it off men's shoulders, but why do you expect feminists to do all the work in relieving men from their burden?

1) Feminists promised that destroying male-specific education (i.e. converting male schools & colleges into co-ed facilities) will strengthen families. It did not.

2) Feminists promised that granting women the right to vote "will end all wars" (footnote below the portraits). It did not.

3) Feminists promised that if women are given their Equal Pay Acts and their maternity leaves, they'll become economically self-sufficient. They did not.

Each of these reforms has absorbed - and keeps absorbing - quite significant amount of cash.

his is basically a rounding error in relation to the total budget, to my best knowledge.

That's around 10 percent of social security budget taken separately, in 2011 bucks (the year the data was collected), assuming average as baseline. If we take average male contribution to the SS as baseline, the estimate is two times higher (i.e. $140 billion, although it's more of a "female undercontribution", rather than "male-to-female transfer"). Payroll taxation is regressive. Contribution to social security system is essentially tax on poor men.

Some unspecified "many" women "were second-wave feminists" 60 years ago. How many? To what extent did they belong to second-wave feminism? How many are still the man-hating harpies you're making them out to be?

This is irrelevant; what relevant is that the redistributionist system established in the last 50-100 years results in those women being net beneficiaries. Women who are not "man-hating harpies" probably have husbands and sons, and would have been better off with smaller welfare system, smaller taxes, and smaller government. There might be a couple exceptions here and there.

Boy, wait until you find out about all the men you've been supporting who hate you. And not just "went to a radfem rally 60 years ago" hate you, either.

I know. I pay for food, medical expenses, education, and perimeter guard of bad men with my taxes. And I pay for food, medical expenses, education, and absence of perimeter guard of bad women with my taxes. Do I need to explain what is "Pussy Pass" and why it matters?

[–]EthelSupreme 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've spent some time thinking about top reasons why segregated prisons exist, and found none that are unapplicable as argument for segregated colleges. Except one: "because women want it this way and find it comfortable" (this argument works for segregated prisons and co-ed colleges, not segregated colleges).

And also I've spent some time working in an actual prison. I was cautious of inmates much more than female staff members. Who should have never gotten hired there, but they were. And they were not afraid at all.

Historically, holding female prisoners in a separate wing of the same building was the norm. This way, it was impossible to send high-quality food, supplies, medical personnel and equipment to female prisons, while leaving male prisoners to rot, lose health, and die of preventable diseases and injuries from exhausting menial labor.

Then, poof, it became possible.

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OK, so where is my right as a woman to transfer the fetus over to a man? Oops, that would be science fiction.

So let's ignore the multiple ways in which you, a woman, can avoid being pregnant, snuff out the potential life of a child and abandon said child with support from society.

Since you're using the 'I carry the child argument', you're saying that a man should pay for 18 years because you carried a child for nine months? If he doesn't pay, he goes to jail. You don't even have to have the child. You don't even have to ask him for a cent. You could just go to a sperm bank, adopt a child or get pregnant and never see the man again if you want a child. But it wouldn't be as good without getting someone else to fund your choices, right?

If you're concerned because of pregnancy complications or what a child could do to your body, the simple answer is not to have a child. And as a single mom, you're essentially robbing your child of a healthier environment by not getting married before having children. Men aren't going to tell women to stop having kids but expecting men to finance women's choices is a different issue.

All men want is to have a choice in whether they get to be a parent. If women are uncomfortable with this, they need to ask themselves why putting someone they presumably care about (you had a kid with him, didn't you?) through financial slavery and potential jail time doesn't bother them more.

So until then woman got a bad deal in biology and therefore in life while men get to do helicopters with their dicks and enjoy their bodies.

This right here is the problem. You've made up a false narrative about what you imagine men's experiences to be like. Most men are not fucking around nearly as much and you don't have to have any children if you believe your biology places you at a disadvantage.

Do women genuinely believe that being a man is a 24/7 party where we get to cause shit, not give a fuck and get away with it? Unless you're among the most elite men, you're not getting away with anything. Men cannot visit parks without a female chaperone or they get the cops called on them. Black men get shot on sight by the cops for looking too gangster. Middle aged men are killing themselves from crippling loneliness. Men do all the dangerous jobs, die on battlefields around the world and get blamed for the world's ills. They even spend 60% longer in jail for the same crimes as women. There are no domestic violence shelters for men who are 40% of domestic violence victims. Men are murdered more, assaulted more, and some even die protecting women and children. And if he's unlucky to have a woman force him into financial servitude, he's called a deadbeat and a loser (and tossed in jail) for not 'being a man' and paying up.

Male privilege ain't all it cracked up to be :/

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In my experience, the majority of feminists don't want either men or women to be subjected to shit. "Well if you want equality then have equally shitty conditions" is a lazy cop-out. Even then, some of your points are in fact addressed - have you missed all the "it's okay for men to have problems and have feelings too" stuff? Oh right, you probably dismissed it because adhering to your established gender role gets you more fucks or something.

Why should it be the job of feminism to force men to pick up the slack in not treating each other like shit? In an ideal world, there would be feminists fighting for issues concerning women and misogyny, and masculists fighting for issues concerning men and misandry. Except the ones associating themselves with Team Men are more concerned with getting easy pussy and sticking it to the wommenz in the more figurative ways.

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No it’s not, feminism is a political term made up recently to mean certain things, it is not just a dictionary word. Human rights and dignity were invented way before that. Not by feminists.

It would be like saying that self righteous screechy reddit atheists don’t have a monopoly on atheism. Or Catholics don’t have a monopoly on Christianity.

Feminism in the dictionary will tell you it’s a VIEWPOINT, the term feminism does not mean “women’s rights” and it’s really annoying that people argue it is a word and not a political opinion.

Okay so you do understand and you subscribe to the view that feminism has a monopoly on “women’s rights” and that I can’t believe we women have rights and are equal to men unless I label myself a feminist and believe all the other retarded things feminism believes that are way beyond just equality. Good to know that I can’t continue talking to you, And you’re going to make up and project a bunch of nonsense like that I am afraid to be pro-equality and don’t want we women to have rights or be equal just because I don’t subscribe to your political sect.

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Eh, think of it this way - a lot of women are attracted to feminism in their youth. Teen girls are acutely aware of certain facts of life - that they’re walking prey to men, primarily. Feminism is a safe rebellion from this reality, and a way for them to reaffirm their worth as human beings, not just sex objects

Once the brain finishes maturing, and they become more involved in everyday life/gradually realize the struggles men face, it’ll fade

Also, I sell professional color lines to salons and spas for a living. Here’s how you can talk her out of making a HUGE mistake with her hair:

Those fantasy hair colors are such an annoying fad. Has she done her research? Does she know how hard it’ll be to maintain blue hair? She’ll be in the salon every two to three weeks. It’s EXPENSIVE

And if she goes cheap and uses a dye like Manic Panic, you can’t remove that or correct the when she’s sick of it. It won’t even bleach out, she’ll have to spend years growing it out

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Title	Off Topic Thread: Feminism (22 June 2019)
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	10
Comments	455
Date	June 22, 2019 6:09 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/c3sw4p/off_topic_thread_feminism_22_june_2019/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/off-topic-thread-feminism-22-june-2019.255177 https://theredarchive.com/post/255177

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