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Q4W: What are nice guys missing

October 18, 2022

so it should be common sense by now that the nice guy just yourself kind heart good soul psyop is bullshit, just being nice is not enough to make enough women attracted or interested, you still gotta turn them on, and being nice is the minimum for a healthy relationship(not sex or a toxic relationship)

so let me ask you what is the nice guy lacking, assume he is not a stereotypical fedora-tipping nice guy, or a spineless doormat who thinks letting people walk all over him is nice, assume that he is an actually nice person, who is struggling to date and frustrated seeing toxic guys who are far worse human beings than him succeed in dating while he is isn't

you know someone like this https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/

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Post Information
Title Q4W: What are nice guys missing
Author gastongang
Upvotes 18
Comments 87
Date October 18, 2022 7:35 AM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4w-what-are-nice-guys-missing.1135953
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/y704oq/q4w_what_are_nice_guys_missing/

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 24 points25 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, any other traits. Niceness by itself isn't going to make you hot on its own, just like anything else. You could be nice and boring, nice and too shy to meet anyone, nice and just not someone's type. And of course, nobody is completely nice all the time, and many only think they're nice.

[–]BigOleGreenTrees 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sugar and spice makes everything nice!

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'll speak as someone who had a fair amount of casual sex: looks and personality/behaviors. At the basest, more primal level, those two things define sexual attraction.

Job, clothes, skills, etc. tend to be tertiary and onward. They're not unimportant, but they're unlikely to compensate enough to make up for a truly detrimental appearance and personality combo.

[–]HTML_Novice 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What kind of appearance? Is it stereotypical Chad?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know what exactly a stereotypical "chad" is aside from the meme. The men I'd consider "chads" have been contested by men here for simple shit like being under 6'. Guess what? We still banged. And then there's hot guys I've rejected/changed my mind about because their personalities are trash.

So it depends. To me? Sure, they were chads.

[–]AGalWithThoughts 40 points41 points  (54 children) | Copy Link

Men don't understand that a lack of confidence is a boner killer for women.

I knew a really "nice guy" when I was single. We went on a couple dates but he was too meek and the spark wasn't there. We remained friends after but he was just too weak, soft, passive, effeminate, that even if I WANTED to be attracted to him, he was like a big, doughy, sweet, kind-hearted friend, like Baymax. I couldn't think of him even remotely sexually.

Men HAVE to be confident and strong for the majority of women to be attracted. I'm not talking physically strong (though, yes, that too) but have a presence and strength of character to be masculine. Even "quiet" masculinity is fine. You don't have to be toxic to be masculine, either.

I can look past looks, height, weight, and all that. But I cannot be the man in the relationship.

[–]MDFornia 15 points16 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I think the language around this stuff tends to be too imprecise. Nice guys do not exude any erotic energy, that's the distinction. There's plenty of confident men who aren't pulling any, and it's because they come off too platonic, too sterile. It just comes down to how much one's demeanor alludes to sexuality.

[–]AGalWithThoughts 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Happy cake day!

And yeah, I agree, unwarranted sexual energy? Creep. Masculinity/confidence/presence/strength of character aren't just synonyms for "be a hypersexual weirdo"

[–]gastongangwhat women want is a literate version of gaston[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

explain, how does a man come as too platonic or sterile vs erotic energy?

[–]MDFornia 15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, what I mean by "erotic energy" is just that his behavior alludes to sex. So think about all the ways of flirting and escalating you see brought up in the manosphere: lingering eye contact, getting close, light touching, etc. Those behaviors allude to sex -the optical fixation, the closeness, the intimate contact- that's why they're erotic. Another way of showing eroticism is to just, you know, talk about sex. Now, you have to be an adult about this stuff; as the original commenter pointed out, if this erotic shit is unwanted, then it's just creepy. Most dudes kind of know that, so in order to avoid being creepy, they do not allude to sex behaviorally or verbally at all.

A dude is being too platonic (or sterile) imo when he is on a date with someone, and does not allude to sexuality in anyway. If a date is going well, usually women (or whoever) will give you certain looks, they'll get in closer to you, they'll kind of play footsies, they might find a reason to touch you, etc. If you do not engage with those behaviors and reciprocate or escalate at all, you're being "too platonic". You're not alluding to sex in any way, maybe because you don't want to make it weird. But in doing so, you're kind of signalling that you are not a sexually viable person; you're like a family member or friend. So given the choice between the guy who gave her a cool conversation and a handshake, and the guy who gave her a cool conversation and got her hot and bothered, many women will choose the latter. We all like sex; part of the excitement of every budding relationship is the possibility that the sex will be amazing, and the dude who seems in touch and expressive of his sexuality makes it known that he's sexually viable. Dudes who shy away from that stuff are telling women that they aren't.

[–]domdomdom333Long night's rest pill 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

mf just explained to me why I get no action without even knowing who I am.

[–]anonymousUser1SHIFT 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would give you an award if I had any. This is the type of explanations that are wanting when someone asks.

[–]bottleblank 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nice guys do not exude any erotic energy, that's the distinction. There's plenty of confident men who aren't pulling any, and it's because they come off too platonic, too sterile.

But part of the "being nice" is not getting handsy, not applying unnecessary pressure, not wanting the woman to feel uncomfortable, not putting her on the spot or surprising her with unacceptable advances, and so on.

As someone who's been one of those guys, I erred on the side of caution, I respected what I thought were safe boundaries, because I didn't want to just presume that I had an open invitation or some kind of right to express that side of myself to a woman. That's not to say I don't have sexual energy, it's just that I didn't think it was very respectful to just land it on a woman who might not want it.

If I knew that it was welcome then I would be more flirty, more intimate, more forward. But I never saw the signs that said "hey, yes, it's OK to get a little more verbally playful, a little more physical, push boundaries", or whatever. So I simply assumed that was inappropriate and didn't do it.

[–]MDFornia 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have a similar predisposition, and working on it. Thing is, you're on a date. While that's not consent to start asserting yourself however you please, you can assume she has a basic level of attraction towards you. Ime if you aren't fucking up the convo, she typically would appreciate some signals from you that you're into her, that's part of the fun of dating. You don't need her to initiate the flirting games; a lot of women won't. Sultry eye contact is my go-to first signal; it's a clear and harmless sign to her that I'm diggin her, and really easy for her to reciprocate. Don't forget your words; tell her that something she just said is beautiful; coyly remark that your answer to her question may not be sexy; just generally try to weave this non-platonic language into the convo, early on. I think that's a good start to transition out of sterile niceguyhood. Those things are harmless, and again -she's verifiably somewhat into you. She agreed to go on a date, so you do have a little bit of leeway to express those non-platonic sides of yourself.

(Sorry if you didn't need a lecture lol. I'm kind of think out loud about this stuff)

[–]bottleblank 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, that's fair enough. I don't really have a lot to say in response, but thanks for the reply. :)

[–]JonMyMon 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Appreciate the honesty!

[–]_Davinci- 11 points12 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

This actually kind of sucks to hear. It means we can't be open about insecurities, like at all. It's the polar opposite of confidence. So we just have to pretend all the time. Not being able to actually talk honestly about feelings leads to tons of guys mental health issues.

Like imagine telling women, they have to be confident about everything all the time. You can't feel insecure about your bodies sometimes, or something you said, you can't worry about what the other person's thinking, you have to say everything with just the right tone. Otherwise we'll lose sexual interest immediately, complain once about being nervous, and we're out man.

The whole feminist thing seemed to be let's get guys to be less macho and more open, be more human. But thats inherently not what is wanted.

[–]AGalWithThoughts 9 points10 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. My husband is totally open with me and we are each other's biggest supporters and champions and we listen to each other and hold each other as we cry without judgment.

The problem, though, is that so many men depend on a woman they are dating to be their sole source of emotional and mental health when they first start dating that it's a turn-off because it's exhausting. That kind of intimacy should come with time and trust, not just dumped on a person you're still getting to know and who is still developing feelings.

You don't have to pretend, and you don't have to hold things in all the time. But if the only person you're releasing those things on is the person you're dating? You're doing it wrong. That's why women keep screaming into the universe about men going to therapy. You should be working on those issues and those insecurities and those confidence problems and those mental health issues, but your date is not your therapist.

[–]_Davinci- 6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The mental gymnastics man. This is why it's said to just not bring up these types of things.

Of course there is pacing and timing, and amount to shoulder on a person. Serious things should be brought up to a professional too. Obviously.

But being a calm nice dude who is a bit shy isn't the same thing as dropping all your problems on someone. So why do those guys get excluded from sexual attraction, per your first comment. Because it sounds like you're saying it's one thing, but it's definitely the other. Being: yes guys should be open and talk to their partners just the right amount, but if they do, they will seem weak and a pushover with no spine and attraction is impossible. They HAVE to be confident, no matter what.

I agree that women need a confident man, I'm not refuting that. But call an orange an orange. You want the manly over confident type, and not the shy nice guys.

[–]SpiritualEnemaRed Pill Man 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Work on being assertive brother. You can learn to be more extroverted with time and practice. Put yourself in a group of more extroverted friends. It will rub off on you and pay dividends in the long run, both in your career and with women.

[–]AGalWithThoughts 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Mental gymnastics? What do you mean?

[–]NoOne_143No Pill -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are not worth dating. Thank God I am bi.

[–]Signal_Adeptness_724 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it sucks but it's real and actionable advice. Men have to find alternative avenues for that sort of thing and it will usually be family, psychiatry, and close friends. Just how it is

[–]Stunning-Potato-1984 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think someone hitting you with their insecurities in the first couple of dates is a red flag. It means it's a big part of their personality. That it's always boiling beneath the surface.

Imagine a woman bringing up she'd been cheated on during the first couple of dates by her last boyfriend. It means she's still not processed and it's at the forefront of her mind.

It's not never talk about insecurities. It's understanding a level of intimacy is required before you do those things. Hitting someone with everything in the beginning means they will likely have an issue respecting boundaries, being jealous, and understanding what is appropriate and when.

Confidence is very attractive though, it says I like who I am and don't give a fuck if others don't. I won't be peer pressured or swayed into doing something because I have a need to please and fit in. Confidence combined with respect and high empathy means you're with someone who will stand up for what's right. It's very appealing.

[–]_Davinci- 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Agree with everything you said there. Especially early on. That's social and relationship awareness. It's maturity of understanding when is the right time.

I just think it's asanine to tell guys to be confident all the time. Maybe I'm a bit nervous the first we have sex. Does that make me a shitty unsexy person? No, it makes me human.

[–]Stunning-Potato-1984 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean that's cute, it means they care about pleasing their partner usually or really don't want to "blow it" which means: they really like you.

Everyone has moments where they feel less than confident. But persistent low self esteem can be so taxing.

[–]Fun_Push7168 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm just glad you realize you can't really listen to this shit. I consistently get to a point where women complain I'm stoic, or mention repeatedly they wish I'd open up. meanwhile they're hitting me up constantly. Then I express a tiny, very tiny amount of non confident emotion and shit slacks off and I'm getting, "I'm not really sure why but things felt kind of off lately, let's be friends"

They say they want you to "open up", but all they really want is the mysterious answers to why this guy is so confident. It doesn't mean tell me about something you struggle with.

As long as I answer requests for openness with either more strength or callousness they're all about it.

Keep any doubt in yourself to people you don't want to be attracted to you, plain and simple.

[–]whyamiherewhatawaste 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women find weakness and insecurity sexy when it's an added dimension to the man and a rare event. The default should be strength and confidence. We heard a weird noise outside and my husband grabbed the gun and went to check. It didn't occur to him to be insecure. However, he gets emotional and cries sometimes. That makes me love him more.

[–]Fridge_Ian_Dom 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This actually kind of sucks to hear. It means we can't be open about insecurities, like at all.

That's not quite true, we're talking about the context of very early stages, the first dates and flirting phase, we're talking about a person you barely know. Very few people are likely to talk openly about their insecurities with a stranger regardless of sexual attraction.

You still can, and should, talk openly about insecurities with a friend, a partner, even a not-quite-a-relationship-but-youre-starting-to-like-each-other situation

[–]ItsJustThePits 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I should just off myself now

[–]AGalWithThoughts 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

And let your haters win? Wack.

[–]ItsJustThePits 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Better than being alone every night in bed with no hope to change it. Ill miss my friends and family but sleeping is getting hard

[–]IntercontinentalToe 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know about Pits, but judging from the Facebook posts of "my haters", they won a long time ago.

[–]domdomdom333Long night's rest pill 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Can you define for us or give an example of a guy having confidence? So we know where to start...

[–]AGalWithThoughts 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

There are plenty of male celebrities who are not that attractive if you look at them at face value. Benedict Cumberbatch, for example, or even Harry Styles. Harry Styles is literally mid at best. But they have an air of confidence that make them magnetic.

I believe that confidence comes from environment. If you have clean clothing, a hairstyle that works (or go completely bald, if you're thinning), if you have an apartment or home that you're proud of, a cologne that reflects your masculinity, hobbies, and friends that make you proud and aspirations that you're working towards that fill you with joy... it's hard, not to be confident when you have all that.

You don't need a ton of money to educate yourself, to learn about male fashion, to find a look that works for you.

[–]Illustrious_Wish_383 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I'm an introverted cerebral dude. Got it beaten into my head from a young age guys like me weren't sexy and were never gonna be. There wasn't a role model or frame of reference either to inspire me to think differently.

[–]AGalWithThoughts 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure there's someone out there who will disagree.

[–]subhumanlonelyscum 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

sI believe that confidence comes from environment. If you have clean
clothing, a hairstyle that works (or go completely bald, if you're
thinning), if you have an apartment or home that you're proud of, a
cologne that reflects your masculinity, hobbies, and friends that make
you proud and aspirations that you're working towards that fill you with
joy... it's hard, not to be confident when you have all that.

No. Confidence comes from positive affirmation from the opposite sex that one is attractive and worthy of procreation.

[–]Fun_Push7168 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If your only source of confidence is someone gave it to you, they can just as easily take it away. Don't ever trust anyone to be your sense of self except yourself.

[–]gastongangwhat women want is a literate version of gaston[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

presence and strength of character, so would a confident but kind of goofy narcissist who can make people laugh, have presence and strength of character

[–]AGalWithThoughts 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Presence, absolutely. Presence is someone who makes an impression, has an identity and makes people notice.

[–]Son_of_Tzu 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Toxic masculinity is only a problem when it comes without the good parts of masculinity.

[–]themayorofhoodville 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Toxic masculinity is only a problem when it exudes from a less than physically appealing man.

[–]Son_of_Tzu 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Drop the blackpill koolaid, you arent required to be a model to earn respect.

Attractive people get a better first impression, but for men its first and foremost about frame, assertiveness etc which beauty can help but isnt vital.

[–]EventSea8621 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

> woman would rather choose an assertive thug over a kind sweet guy

meme gender.

[–]LivingBat5954 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]Stunning-Potato-1984 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being nice is really sort of a basic requirement, if that's all someone brings to the table, not exactly compelling.

Are they also: intelligent, witty, funny, are they passionate about something, do they have ambition, do their values match mine, do they get along with my friends, do they have hobbies do they have friends?

There has to be more than nice.

[–]AquaChipChad Catcher 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

A backbone. The vast majority of women aren’t attracted to awkward shyness, meekness, effeminate behavior like men are. For some reason men here find it hard or impossible to be kind, confident and masculine.

[–]gastongangwhat women want is a literate version of gaston[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

damn I used to be extremely confrontational, but I got in a really bad fight once, and ever since then I noticed I have been much less so

[–]AquaChipChad Catcher 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yea, getting your ass beat usually puts things into perspective lol

[–]gastongangwhat women want is a literate version of gaston[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

to be fair to me though it was 2v1 and the guy was a senior while I was freshman and had tons of size on me

[–]gymbro718NYC 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What was her name?

[–]a_popful_mail 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think something a lot of people undersell is niceness itself. Sure its just one thing among many that one needs to have, but its one that matters a lot. Especially if you're aiming to date seriously. But I don't think people think a lot about the fact that niceness, kindness, means something very different to different people. What's acceptable, what's too much, too little, what meshes and doesn't. People always see themselves as nice, but that nice doesn't always mesh with everyone or comes with a lot of extra points that work against it really being able to shine through, like a lack of authenticity or simply just expressing it in ways that just don't work with certain crowds of people.

Like say.. consider how different one may perceive the perception of how you open the door for a random stranger, if at all. A lot will colour their perception of that. Who you held it for, how you did it, if you said anything, so on. Or say lets look at if you ran into a stranger who is openly gay with a gal at your side you are taking for a date. You both know he is gay. You smile his way and say hello to him and remember he and you share a class so you see if he wants to maybe study some time for a test together. To the gay, say she's left wing and so on, will either view this as a good sociability and a niceness she can respect or she'll note that you are nice to minority group without issue or anything. She'll like that. Say she's a religious Baptist church type woman. Do that and she will think you're the devil. She'll not see this as niceness and sociability but as being a horrible person supporting something awful.

That's a drastic example but another might be how one comforts someone else for example. The types of words they say, their actions and limits in how they behave. Like asking to touch someone before you do is seen as nice to one person and weird to another.

[–]DeepFriedhentaiMemes 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Two things for me. Being nice to someone doesn’t entitle you to sex. Charisma and confidence are enough for me to go on a date with you.

[–]bottleblank 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Being nice to someone doesn’t entitle you to sex.

Yeah, cool, "being nice [...] doesn't entitle you to sex", "women aren't sex objects", "women want to be treated as more than just holes"...

...but if you dare respect a woman enough to not be forward and flirty out of the gate, implying that you are a sexual entity and that you want sex, to treat her as though she's a human being you like as more than just a potential sex buddy, then you're SOL because she doesn't think you even have a cock and balls attached to you.

[–]DeepFriedhentaiMemes 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Idk if I’d agree with you there. I don’t speak for the entirety of women but I personally enjoy a more forward approach. I tend to be more submissive than anything sexually so I enjoy the objectification side of stuff clearly.

I more so meant that if you pussy foot around for months then don’t get confused when you’re in the friend zone is all. In college this would happen all the time to me as guy’s would find themselves there then get pissed off at me when I ended up going out with someone else

[–]bottleblank 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Right, and that seems to be the general consensus around here (and in the experiences of those who have tried to watch how other people form relationships): that women aren't fragile snowflakes unable to tolerate a bit of flirting or suggestive touch. Logically, given that relationships happen, and that many of them start with such flirting and ramping up of intimacy, I'd have to take this as fact.

But this conflicts with what many of us grew up being told, and worse, many young men now are getting the feminist "women aren't for men" treatment, which is kinda what I was saying above. We're told that women aren't sexual beings (unless they openly invite it and consent to every little move), that women don't appreciate being hit on, and that men should stop thinking with their dicks for 5 minutes. We're told that it's wrong to make any kind of move unless we know it's been actively invited, otherwise it's offensive, objectifying, and maybe even scary.

How in the world are we supposed to reconcile those two things? That women want us to make moves, but that we're constantly told that's not OK to do? Those who don't care what women think or feel will do it anyway, and they seem to manage just fine. Those of us who care (apparently) too much are, it would seem, absolute suckers for actually giving a damn about not acting inappropriately.

[–]DeepFriedhentaiMemes 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Idk I personally feel like you’re overthinking it. There’s a pretty wide range of flirting and making your intentions known without going over the line. Every girls line is different. Some chicks don’t want to be talked to at all. Idk. I have let strangers feel up my ass before without saying a word to them before or after. I’m probably not the best barometer for specific. But Just be receptive to whether they appreciate said flirting or not and then don’t make it weird.

[–]The9thElementradical feminist 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Looks, confidence

[–]pinktuliploverHonesty Pilled 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He probably lacks confidence, assertiveness, and leadership skills. He could also be uninteresting or there is just no chemistry.

[–]TermAggravating8043 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He’s boring, short answer

When I was younger I met what should have been a high value guy, he was tall, naturally good looking, came from a wealthy background, played the villain, was intelligent and did very well at school, but Christ almighty he was boring as fuck. He just had no banter, no sense of humour, he followed me around like a lap dog just agreeing with everything I said or just laughed at my jokes. I had felt bad as all our friends tried to set us up and I knew he liked me so I thought I should give him a chance, but there was no chemistry for me at least. I broke it off after a couple of days as it was wrong to lead him on further. He was a genuinely nice guy and I wish him all the best but he just didn’t have that spark

[–]AstronautLoveShackOne Eyed One Horned Flying Purple People Eater 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not enough to be nice. My co-workers are nice. The cashiers at the grocery store are nice. Nice is just basic politeness. You also need to be interesting.

[–]CruelAngelGradThesiscall me omae 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Literally everything else besides being "nice". And 90% of the time men who pride themselves on their niceness don't even have that going for them.

Take my BF for example. He is quite literally one of the sweetest human beings I have ever met and admittedly, that is a large part of the reason I was drawn to him. If you ask him he's not perfect by any stretch and he often feels like he's not doing enough. There are moments I just want to pin him down and get it through his cute stubborn skull that he's already doing too much and he needs to think about himself more.

That said, his kindness alone would not have sparked any romantic interest. Cute little old people are nice, that has not made me magically sexually attracted to them. I am still (mostly) straight despite running into nice women all of the time.

It was a combination of that, physical attraction, common interests, and compatible views/lifestyles.

[–]Fun_Push7168 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your second to last paragraph is the best I've ever seen explanation of why nice alone is not sexually attractive.

1000 times better than " nice doesn't entitle you to sex" or " nice is just the minimum " blah blah nonsense.

[–]CimZimPurple Pill Woman[🍰] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They pedestalize women. They become so "nice" that they don't see us as fellow humans, but rather slightly better than human. They're the kind of guy who, upon finding out you have a different opinion than him, will become wishy-washy about his own stance. He'll attempt to rephrase it in a way that compromises his beliefs so they're more in line with your own. Like an ultimate yes-man.

It's extremely unattractive when a man views you as so mentally delicate and emotionally weak that he thinks you'll become upset upon finding out gasp not everyone thinks the same things! As if he needs to protect you from new ideas and healthy debate. Nice guys like this are like the husband and doctor from The Yellow Wallpaper, so intent on letting us leave any mental heavy lifting to them that we slowly go crazy from lack of stimulating conversation.

[–]DXBrigade 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Physical attractiveness and social skills.

[–]bunnakaybirth control pill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're only nice because they expect something for it

[–]Teacup000Red Pill Woman 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link


I love how kind my husband is. It's one of my favorite things about him. But it's his sense of humor and how he teases me that really gets me excited.

[–]pokemin49Dark Pills 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing. It's women who are missing some fundamental qualities of humanity within themselves.

[–]vlad0_ge0rgijevv 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ive been hit on couple of times by girls, never took action tho because I didnt give a shit about women (not in degrading sense, just didnt care about dating). I am not a tall guy, 5ft8 and chubby, however with a good face. What worked then and what I am trying to return back to is just not giving a shit. Like, focus on building my body, interests and being okay with myself. Thats what happend back then. I was okay and happy and even though I wasnt exactly Henry Cavill, girls were interested. Also, demonstrate humor,charisma,ambition and being in control.

[–]handsanitizer-- 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most people are nice. Anyone can be nice. It can even be considered manipulative. You have to stand out in other ways.

[–]SeveralSadEveningsSPITE ALONE HOLDS ME ALOFT 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

An edge. They possess zero excitement/adrenaline/danger, and they can't inspire it in others.

I fell in love with my husband when he took me on a B&E of a rival frat house.

[–]Novadina 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends on the guy. Niceness is just one trait, most people connect on much more than just that.

who is struggling to date and frustrated seeing toxic guys who are far worse human beings than him succeed in dating while he is isn’t

Unfortunately the world doesn’t work so good humans fare better than bad ones in pretty much anything. Good people can still die young, get sick, be poor, suffer through terrible things, or be unlucky in love. No matter how good you are you will still find worse humans getting more of something you want than you. But if you look further, you can find good ones getting more too, because a lot of it is chance. And some is just that the people willing to use unethical means (is a worse person) to get what they want will have more since it can be effective.

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[–]Lift_and_LurkNo Pill 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What are they missing? A backbone and a real personality.

[–]Smitten_Squire 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Imo a nice guy personality on a guy is equal tho the bubbly funny personality of a obese girl.

They act that way cuz its all they got. He's average and boring

[–]gymbro718NYC 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Niceness is the opposite of being sexually arousing. Ask yourself why a man is being nice to a woman?

Simple. The only reason he is being nice is because he wants to get into her pants, wants to be liked and approved and he believes niceness will get him there. The issue is that when you are nice, you suppress all the things that naturally make you exciting, such as being edgy, taking risks, being confident and throwing caution to the wind.

Niceness is really a strategy to not make a woman upset or kissed off with you. But by being so careful and sterile around her, you also kill any emotional and sexual tension.

[–]MistyMaisel 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

  1. They don't seem to like internalize that women can be screwed up too and are seeking toxic behavior that to them is normalized due to some sort of life experience in their past (typically childhood). The pertinent thing here being that by being a genuinely decent (nice) dude, you're going to turn off a lot of women who aren't looking for that for whatever reasons (typically childhood trauma). Put in fishing terms, you can't catch that kind of fish with this kind of bait. And a lot of nice fellas are unknowingly trying to catch this kind of fish.
  2. They give off no sexual or erotic vibes. Quintessentially, they have no idea what is sexy to women and/or don't know how to project/highlight that stuff. And it doesn't matter how good a guy you are, you will lose to the bad guys who know how to turn the heat up if you don't have any clue how to put some heat on.
  3. Unlike the trauma example, sometimes they really just aren't what that woman wants. They're a great person and good-looking, but something in the stars just isn't aligning and they aren't the Oscar Meyer Wiener this Ketchup wants to be on.
  4. They're have lots of baggage, and I don't mean in the like nice guy or doormat way. They're just obviously toting a u-haul of problems and most women aren't going to want to unpack that sucker.
  5. Nice is a baseline, but it isn't a reason to date anyone (goes for both genders). I didn't fall in love with my boyfriend because he's super nice (he is). I fell for him because he's hysterically make me cry funny, a leader who took care of people around him that didn't really deserve his kindness, had fascinating hobbies and life stories, oozed charisma, excellent cat, was great at flirting, and always made me feel protected.

[–]gastongangwhat women want is a literate version of gaston[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

how should a man go about turning the heat up or giving sexual/erotic vibes

(out of all the answers I have gotten including assertiveness, dangerous edge, interesting/fun, exciting, charismatic, and confident, that is the only thing I am missing right now)

[–]MistyMaisel 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Humor and flirting that is specifically about sexual or erotic things.

Facial expressions. The smolder so to speak. My boyfriend had a face he'd make at me and it would just instantly make me blush and get hot under the corset. The face pretty much says, "you're a cutie and I want to take you home and give us both a lot of pleasure". He'd never say it. It's just what the face would say.

If I had to describe the face, it's a grin, eye contact, and a slight tilt of the chin/head.


Compliments that are specific and address both emotional and physical aspects.

Dressing in ways women like.

Smelling really good.

And finally environment. I described my boyfriend's room the other day as like...horny serene. It's so warmly lit in a way that's both soothing and erotic (lots of orange light and candles basically), it smells like a hot guy (which is inherently both a warm and sexy/spicy smell), it's organized and neat without being OCD, the bedding is fuzzy and nice while also having like a dark sensual color/vibe. The decor is stuff he likes which is both cool fun guy stuff and at times somewhat suggestive/masculine.

And obviously you can't always have a girl back at your place, but all the places he would take me were very warm, serene, and yet adventurous. The food places he'd take me had that datey vibe or were spontaneous invites so that held an element of excitement. His car was always very well kept, he'd show interest in if everything was warm enough for me or comfortable in the car, and we'd spend a lot of time just chatting in his car. So that's another way to control the environment to be more erotic.

And sometimes being very direct you know, that doesn't hurt. Like saying you want to make out with a girl and looking intense about it.

[–]Fun_Push7168 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It literally is just flirting.

When you have a naughty thought don't let it pass and pretend it wasnt there, give them the head to one side curious half smile but also with your eyes look that says " guess what I'm thinking, it's probably mischievous" then when she asks what make her wonder.

Make eye contact just a hair too long with a bit of a smirk.

Make an excuse to touch.


Could explain a lot more but honestly most of it sounds fucking dumb written out. Almost needs video.

[–]gastongangwhat women want is a literate version of gaston[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

this is the only thing I am missing, I need it

[–]gastongangwhat women want is a literate version of gaston[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually need this, all the other treats women have pointed out I have in spades, confidence, charisma, fun interesting, sexy as fuck, assertive

[–]waffleznstuff30 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot of things.

"Nice" is like the bare minimum. Everyone is nice. It comes standard. And most of the time the nice guy is just that they lean into how nice they are. It's like going out with someone and saying I'm potty trained and expecting sex or a relationship as a reward. Like everyone is capable of being a decent human.

When your whole MO is just I'm nice it's not getting anyone anywhere. Are you nice and good looking? Are you really nice and kind and have a bunch of friends and people who speak highly about you and how kind you are and your actions reflect that. Are you funny as hell and also a genuinely good person. Everyone is nice on a superficial level and it's not a good way to weed others out. There needs to be an and in there and that and should be the more developed quality.

We genuinely do like nice guys. Even the scummiest worst sleaziest f-boy will come off as nice. And they catch women off guard once that behavior pattern changes and they do scummy crap. Abusers/Narcs come off as nice they lovebomb and shower their person in affection and niceness then change their behavior.

[–]anon018274031 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice is the absolutely minimum… making nice your personality and only selling point is what’s wrong

[–]BlackPorcelainDoll🌹 ᴘʀᴏᴘᴇʀᴛʏ ᴏꜰ ᴘᴏʀꜱᴄʜᴇ 🏇 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The better guy has the best pitch, honey. Read my posts/2 cents here and here. I break down the "nice guy" from my POV, why he loses against competitors and how to reduce his losses.

[–]foxbirch 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Simple. They're not good looking

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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