The Orbiter Phenomenon

NockerJoe · 2022-09-13T21:31:40+00:00

I've known some women who knew exactly whst was going on, and others who didn't believe it. I think many women will try to maintain the friendship either way just because Orbiters out in way more work than actual regular platonic friends but ask way less since they're waiting for a green light first.

But that just comes to one of the main issues with modern dating, which is that people train a lot of men to wait for a green light or level of interest that just doesn't really happen 99% of the time. The reality of the time is that, speaking from experience, most women will just wait around for you to make a move and the signals you get will be really limited and you have to make the leap and hope it works out.

Once you've been there once or twice orbiters are really easy to spot. The one tine its come up I had a couple of pretty frank discusdions with the girl I was dating and that dude eventually wound up dating various attractive women after(including a cosplayer/model). Its not that he was ugly or unlikable so much as that, as an orbiter, he was waiting for a green light so long I had kind of gotten involved with her. I would never let someone I was dating become involved with someone like that because its both really obvious emotional cheating and also a pretty fucking rotten way to treat someone.

wintergreen233 · 2022-09-13T21:35:56+00:00

For what it’s worth, after I heard the concept of an “orbiter” I realized I probably had a few guys in my life RP would describe that way, and honestly that would fit the description.

It’s certainly not how I thought of them at the time, and I have zero crazy stories. They were just guys who were around and I thought were my friends until eventually they realized we weren’t going to be together and drifted off. I was always kinda sad about that I guess, like realizing they weren’t really my friend like I’d thought we were. I mean, to be clear if they had feelings and it didn’t work for them I totally do understand, but I wasn’t aware of it at the time really.

Smitten_Squire · 2022-09-13T21:15:42+00:00

Some allow the orbiters to stay out of fear. Some want the benefits like free gifts, etc. They know whats up lol

NFthrowaway8302021 · 2022-09-14T01:30:22+00:00

I've never seen an orbiter get any pussy unless a woman was super drunk and desperate.

TheRedPillRipper · 2022-09-13T21:44:48+00:00

the most common

Women are aware. As attraction comes first. After that, communication what differentiates orbiting, from genuine friendship. The key factor is if one, or both parties are overt, or covert. In communicating their intent.

Godspeed and good luck!

growandappear · 2022-09-13T21:36:42+00:00

It's impossible to assert in good faith that you know which one is more common. I have wondered about some men and I have ended up being correct, but assuming 100% certainty without anything done or said is egomaniacal.

As for the rest:

-I don't watch people's affairs this closely, so no

-I've had people decide they are into me when we aren't involved or together

-Not very valid.

-Most outlandish I've ever seen was actually F/F, from a good friend of mine! Had a girl claim the best friend title who, when buddy's family was visiting, literally cut in front of my buddy talking to another chick she had met. The family pulled her aside to ask if anything was going on between them. Was out with them when she "joked" about being sexually attracted to her too. It was definitely a lot!

Complex-Glass-8539 · 2022-09-14T00:17:59+00:00

So, I think the “what’s most common” question is hard to answer, and depends on age/experience.

For example, I think the vast majority of 25+ year old, attractive women know when they have an orbiter. I think that a below average woman or average to above average man may very well not know.

So, above average, post college age women, and very attractive men of the same age, yeah, they probably know.

Below average women, and a little above average to below men at the same age, probably don’t.

It’s a crap shoot for those in the middle and those who are younger.

I have definitely seen orbiters succeed, especially when they are with these older people who understand what’s happening. Those people usually don’t leave the orbiter around when they aren’t at least intrigued.

I have had orbiters, they came out of the woodwork after my separation/divorce, and yes, for most part, I knew they were orbiters (divorce was 7 years coming and I was checked out the last 2), and yes most of them succeeded.

Don’t know if worst, but 2 of my college roommates were pretty bad. She had a boyfriend the year we lived together, he was completely in love with her. He would basically do anything she wanted (rides, money, emotional support) and when she knew it was quiet in the house would have literally the loudest screaming sex with her bf to taunt him (and annoy the rest of us).

She toyed with our other roommate bad, and even said she was, that he was “fun to play with” (sit on his lap, tell him how handsome he was, play with his hair, etc…), while also talking about how big her bf’s dick was and go into way too much detail about her sex life. She was such a skank too, every guy in the house except the one dude had slept with her and she must have banged 40-50 guys our last year in the dorm (side note she pulled a trifecta one night, which we gave her shit for and she was low key proud of).

He went to high school with her and had been all about her since. It was sad too, dude could’ve gotten with many of her “friends”. She was a “can’t get along with other girls” type, who always brought in other women who were like her to be her bestie for a month or two till they would get into a fight and hate each other. In the mean time they’d make the rounds with all us guys. Dude was so into her he rejected some girls that were significantly hotter and cooler that were all about him…..Huddle, you dumb bastard, you wasted college on her.

Aromatic_Shop9033 · 2022-09-13T22:51:06+00:00

Ohhhh...they know.

They keep them around for free attention and validation while they sleep with other guys.

This whole plausible deniability nonsense of "I had noooo idea he was attracted to me...tee hee!" is absurd.

Tell him you're not interested, and if he sticks around after that, it's all on him.

Before that, she has some responsibility in encouraging this crap.

bunnakay · 2022-09-13T21:34:18+00:00

I've never noticed whether I've had an orbiter. I don't sit and try to analyze whether a friend has a crush on me.

roger_roger_32 · 2022-09-13T21:54:57+00:00

10 years ago, I heard a woman describe herself as having "No boyfriend right now, just a couple of orbiters." I'd never heard the term before, but it instantly made sense.

I think almost every single woman (and many attached women) have "orbiters" of one form or another. Some women actively encourage it, and have enough "moons" to rival Jupiter. Usually the bubbly, attractive woman with lots of "guy friends.," Other women just have a small handful, of which they may or may not be aware of.

In a situation of orbiters, I think it's more pertinent to ask the question of "Do the orbiters realize they're orbiters?" The woman who introduced me to the term was living abroad, doing the ex-pat thing. So lots of single men and women. Women had orbiters, but the guys may have been "orbiting" multiple women. So, no big deal either way, right?

The problem becomes when guys don't realize they're just one of multiple "orbiters." Or worse yet, guys who think that "orbiting" is the way you're supposed to find a girlfriend. That's the kind of guy who really ends up bitter and jaded at the world. They share some of a Venn diagram with the prototypical "Nice Guy." They think if they just orbit enough, close enough, that they'll eventually get pulled in. And then they're crushed when it doesn't happen. Either they orbit forever, like a lost satellite, or some meteor blows past them one day, and two weeks later the meteor is moving in with the planet you were orbiting.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-09-13T23:27:49+00:00

I have known exactly one woman in my whole life with orbiters. Like legitimately cultivated and kept guys who she knew were into her, though they never explicitly said it. She had a boyfriend too. She would always complain about how badly he treated her.

She always wanted one of them to have a full on movie level love triangle but they were all nerds too passive to actually ever do anything. So they just pined endlessly and she had a miserable relationship with her boyfriend she'd been in a toxic relationship with since highschool. Until she cheated on him.

Otherwise ain't no one got time for that shit.

anon018274031 · 2022-09-14T07:26:32+00:00

I don’t think I have friend orbiters unless you count my male friends that we both openly admit we would do something if it wasn’t for other factors, and we both know it can’t happen and openly discuss that.

Do I ‘use’ them ^. I mean yeah, I use them for male connection and they use for me female connection, we enjoy the flirty banter, I use them for physical contact. Also it’s good to have unfiltered opinions from the opposite sex. Plus they are super fun company

_Duriel_1000_ · 2022-09-13T22:56:10+00:00

Do you believe that the women being orbited are aware of what's going on or do you believe they're genuinely clueless?

Of course they know.

Crafty_Letter_1719 · 2022-09-13T23:06:22+00:00

The vast majority of Woman know from a very young age that most guys want to sleep with them-and everybody else.

It would be pretty ludicrous to think that most Woman surrounded by male “friends” actually ever truly believe they are only hanging around because they dig her amazing personality. Of course they are aware the relationship isn’t platonic. Of course they know he would jump into bed with her at the first prompt. Any Woman that says otherwise is either a liar or one of the most naïve people on the planet.

The point though is that both sides actually don’t care that the relationship isn’t strictly platonic because you can still have a friendship of sorts even if it is built on a foundation of unreciprocated lust.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2022-09-14T00:26:46+00:00

An orbiter is not a simp. An 'orbiter friend' is an oxymoron and only exists within the orbiters mind which is why the female may or may not be aware as the orbiter can either ("passive secret or obvious admirers always around") but never close, whereas a 'simp friend' can be observed plausibly outside of the man's own head. Both may do similar deeds with different goals/motives. The difference between the orbiter is that while the simp is selfless, the orbiter is instead selfish and engages in a (parasocial) relationship with the idol or "object" of affection for self-gratification.

The orbiter projects onto the object, regardless of the objects feelings on the matter - they orbit for their own pleasure, whereas the "simp" selflessly gives, sometimes items, but not really just that, often times too many (emotional) vulnerabilities, unwarranted energy and self-sacrifice to an unattached woman, the orbiter selfishly takes and does not give any such thing. The only thing in common with the two is both many use material items in their giving. The simp desires a non-transactional and authentic relationship, but for whatever the case, does not know how. The orbiter's exchange is usually entirely transactional because giving such transactions pleases him when the female validates him and rewards him, usually with something performative. This is not the same for the simp, who does not even validate her at the bare minimum, just embarrasses himself and everyone around. More likely, the woman will cold-shoulder the simp - which is why he is a simp - but feel comfortable with a transactional orbiter (OFs).

One thing I've noticed about orbiters is they are more likely to be attached men (i.e., married or taken - with partners (or more genuine love interests) with 'favorite unattached women' when overt whereas the simp (in the romantic context) is usually almost always an uncomfortably single man. Whatever the case, the simp feels he is giving his 'all' and the orbiter compartmentalizes himself with different women.

Unlike the simp, the orbiter does not wish to be outside of "orbit", and prefers to orbit over any genuine type of interaction outside of the exchange, which is not true for a simp. The orbiter does not suffer unrequited love like the simp and genuinely has no intimate bond with the female beyond observation of her from her orbit, which is always without any vulnerability. Akin to how a prostitute performs many personas, and the recipient is sated by such personas. These 'personas' and 'different women within a woman' can also be imagined by an orbiter, and idealized by a simp.

An orbiter may kidnap his object of affection and hold her hostage in his basement, a simp will show up the door slaying imaginary dragons for her. The orbiter is a fan, the simp is a man that does not want to be within her orbit, but wants to land.

There may only be one simp at a time; but there are always many orbiters and never just one.

How often have you seen orbiters succeed at getting what they want?

Almost never. The orbiter NEVER has intimate contact with the woman, if he does, it is indiscriminately the same for other orbiters and intentionally transactional.

With a few exceptions, he may have ORBITED her while he was with his girlfriend/wife but never SIMPED for her which is why she found him attractive and gave in - then he left his current partner for the woman he orbits, but he was never in love with this woman, and the relationships are very short-lived, often incompatible.

Have you ever had an orbiter?

Yes, and never have I ever made any kind of personal contact with them directly. Which is not true simps who exist within personal social groups, within your environment, with some familiarity and comfort usually - in spite of the odd behavior.

How valid do you think it is for a man to be worried about/suspicious of an orbiter?

Valid, but usually unnecessary. A "simp" is probably a greater threat if anything, and still they are both uninteresting to women for different reasons.

vogel777 · 2022-09-14T23:25:21+00:00

I've been friends with guys I know would have liked to date me if I were single. I wasn't single or interested in them and while they liked me I wasn't their primary or exclusive interest so if we had good grounds for mutual friendship then I think that's fine, am I supposed to have no male friends because men will generally be attracted to me? These friendships are equitable and don't involve money being spent or gifts. I've had a couple of men tell me that don't want to be just friends and if there isn't any chance for a relationship then they'd rather not keep seeing me. That's fair enough.

I think most men would fuck their female friends, their male friends wives and girlfriends, their mates granny etc. If we worried too much about all the men who want to fuck us we'd never speak to another man again.

baresquad · 2022-09-13T21:03:59+00:00

It’s a mix of both. They want to genuinely give him the benefit of the doubt which is fair but orbiters are inherently disingenuous friends so they take advantage of that. You can’t be a genuine friend to somebody you’re hanging around but have feelings for waiting and hoping she’ll decide to one day be with you

I’ve maybe orbited back when I was a teenager but I’d never do that shit now. If I have feelings for a friend who’s in a relationship, I respect that and distance myself

I don’t think men should worry about orbiters. Being one is pathetic, and if she leaves you for him, at worst she left you for a loser putting on his nice boy facade. He should take it as a win and move on

tinasnow-poty · 2022-09-13T23:23:05+00:00

I don’t have friend orbiters, but if i have a couple of guys who think they have a chance when I just like the attention, sue me. I’ve told them no, and if they stay messaging me that’s their choice

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howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2022-09-13T22:06:33+00:00

A personal anecdote:

My husband and I went to a brewery a while ago and were playing pool with a couple that was probably about 10 years older than us. They had two kids at home and they were trying for a third.

They left because they had a sitter, and were replaced with a group of young college-aged guys, maybe 5+ years younger than us. The difference in these two interactions was noticeable. I realized at some point that most these guys were quite literally orbiting me, just hovering and being very interested in what I had to say, which believe me, too-many-drinks-in was nothing special. Whereas the husband in the previous couple was friendly but aloof (although this could have been due to a language barrier). My husband later said he noticed it too, so it wasn’t just in my head.

Clearly I don’t typically have any orbiters, which is what made this interaction feel so bizarre to me. It’s also worth noticing that these were kind of nerdy guys so, again consistent with the Orbiter stereotype. But if a girl is swarmed with them I could see how she just thinks they’re being really nice and considerate. Pretty privilege, basically.

The idea a lot of guys push that we just have some Rolodex of desperate men in our back pocket any time we need validation is just so bizarre to me.

Main-Leek7908 · 2022-09-13T23:36:26+00:00

I didn’t know what orbiters were until I found TRP. By that time i was already married, so I cut off the orbiters I had and prevented any from becoming orbiters in the future. It was weird for me to have “friends” that only wanted to fuck me when it was never going to happen

wtknight · 2022-09-13T23:37:27+00:00

I think that the type of woman that has had one orbiter in her life is usually clueless that the guy is into her. She usually genuinely thinks that he just wants to be a friend.

I think that the type of woman that has had multiple orbiters, often at the same time, usually knows exactly what is going on.

decoy88 · 2022-09-14T03:49:34+00:00

Do you believe that the women being orbited are aware of what's going on or do you believe they're genuinely clueless?

Some are. Some are not. Young inexperienced women haven’t yet learned the lessons and can still be very naive and unaware of the signs.

Or some mix of both where they've got an idea that it's happening but choose to deny it out of social pleasantry/not ruining a friendship?

Some are. Some are not. Young inexperienced women haven’t yet learned the lessons and can still be very naive and uneducated on how to deal with these situations.

While we do obviously know that all three scenarios exist, the question is, which do you think is the most common scenario?

The answer to this is very dependent on age and experience of the people in question.

But there are multiple more questions/topics related that I think can and should be discussed.

How often have you seen orbiters succeed at getting what they want?

60%

Have you ever had an orbiter? (question for both genders, by the way)

I think so, maybe once or twice in my teen years from what my friends tell me.

How valid do you think it is for a man to be worried about/suspicious of an orbiter?

As valid as his distrust of the woman in question

What are your absolute worst/craziest stories about orbiters? (regardless of whether or not the situation involved you; you just have to know the story of)

Too many to count. r/LetsNotMeet has a lot of them.

And add your own tidbits/things about orbiters if you choose.

The biggest problem with orbiters is identification. Nothing can be known for sure and while optimists underestimate intentions, cynicists overestimate them.

Orbiter identification is based on the behaviour amd words of the orbiter. And then it depends on how skilled they are at lying and masking their intentions. The better they are, the more they look like a friend.

EDIT: also depends on how much attention the woman is paying to the friendship. Less focus means less likely to catch the slip-ups.

Then there’s the case of genuine attraction developing over time. A friendship that started platonically and turned into one or both people wanting more. These also incorrectly get labelled as “orbiter” scenarios.

I’ve been incorrectly accused of being an orbiter on multiple occasions due to other’s projection. I’m always sceptical unless there’s really damning evidence. If they are behaving as a friend, treat them like a friend. Trying to read people’s mind rarely works out correctly.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-09-14T05:59:16+00:00

I've never seen an actual definition, but if they're just a friend who has a crush on you, I've been one but I don't know if I've had one past the one who told me about it. Most of my friends are men who are into women, so the chances are reasonably high, but if they were into me they didn't let on. Certainly, when I crushed on friends, it wasn't the only thing keeping us as friends on either side. I'd say that most of the relationships I know about among my peers started as friends or acquaintances. I don't think you should be worried about anyone your partner clearly isn't into, even if you suspect they're into your partner.

DivineDaedra · 2022-09-14T08:48:22+00:00

Only one guy “friend” ever made me wonder whether or not he actually accepted it when I said I wasn’t interested in him.

The most obvious red flag was when I told him I was into psychology, he faked having multiple personalities. He lied about a lot of things like that but didn’t commit as hard to the others.

I had trouble coming to terms with the situation because I’d known him since I was 8 years old and I thought his crush from back then would have gone away. He said some nasty shit when I cut him out over his anti vax stuff though.

There was also one group of guys I used to game with that didn’t like having my husband join us which led to me not hanging out with them anymore.

As far as friends I have now, I highly doubt any of them are under the impression there’s more to it than friendship. I’m married and don’t care to spend time around people who don’t like my husband.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2022-09-14T10:14:21+00:00

I have had many orbiters over the years and I knew they were orbiters but I'd still send memes back and forth anyway. They're people and people can be funny and interesting whether orbiters or not.

gyxkid · 2022-09-14T14:09:35+00:00

If a male friend of a girl is to ever get in her pants, simping would probably lower his chances, what he could do is have value/be attractive in her eyes and then strike at the right moment when she’s single

A girl’s boyfriend probably wouldn’t need to worry so much about obviously simping orbiters who are low-value (although unlikely situations are technically possible given the right circumstances), but he might wanna keep an eye on the tactical vulture described in first paragraph especially if his girl’s attraction to him starts slipping

AndrewPotato34 · 2022-09-14T15:09:57+00:00

Even the ugliest most unattractive girl has atleast 10+ orbiters today because of feminsim and social media, that's like competing competing competing with simps and other loser men it's beyond disgusting and over for dating. Idk about the men of this sub but i won't make a fool of myself competing with other loser and fool men that's just how awful dating is today and will be for future generations = just let it go dude

Why do men don't have orbiters huh? Why can't i have 10-20 orbiters i'm done bro i'm done

cuteTroublexo · 2022-09-14T18:19:06+00:00

I know I have orbiters and we women need them, because those are our OF clientele 😂

Orbiters pay to view us, the chads fuck us and take pics for us, also taking advantage of orbiters lol

Title	The Orbiter Phenomenon
Author	Spread-Em-Plz
Upvotes	12
Comments	81
Date	September 13, 2022 8:53 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/xdibgd/the_orbiter_phenomenon/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-orbiter-phenomenon.1131135 https://theredarchive.com/post/1131135

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