Why does wanting equality in the workforce or freedom from sexual harassment mean women wish to be men or want total societal androgyny?

purpleppp · 2017-02-03T03:55:54+00:00

It's not hypocritical to want equal rights but still want to keep the gender roles.

But it's hypocritical to pick and choose which gender roles you want to keep based on what benefits you. Some feminists do that. Not you specifically.

dragoness_leclerq · 2017-02-03T03:38:32+00:00

Great, honest post here, thanks for this. What pisses people off is that you want equality but also the same privileges that youve always had. Privileges that were mostly gained in the first place from that inequality.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-02-03T06:30:53+00:00

I'll explain. Significant portions of feminism not only advocate for it, they actively teach that gender IS a social construct and that humans are a blank slate in gender studies programs worldwide.

So what you're doing is a very common argument for feminists to make. "How dare you address one major arm of feminism which I personally don't agree with/am not aware of!" Each hydra head of feminism does this in an endless cycle where, as you guessed it, men ultimately get the blame once again for not doing ...something or another, to address the atrocity of women not having precisely what they want at all times.

Question for you: why don't you go after the side of feminism which is plainly the major force in pushing this insane "Harrison Bergeron" standard (equity) on society? You're making arguments that are quite similar to popular anti feminists. If you are a feminist yourself, why be one when doing so supports these gender zealots and their religion which clearly runs counter to your goals and beliefs?

KrispyMcSockington · 2017-02-03T10:35:38+00:00

Yet for however familiar I am with the pillosphere, I still struggle to understand this concept. I rather like being paid equally for doing the exact same job as my male counterparts, but that doesn’t mean I want to wear the pants in the family or be the sole breadwinner for my SAHD husband.

This right here is the problem. "I want to earn my money but don't want the responsibility of being a breadwinner". You are trying to separate the two but they are connected. If you enter an environment where people who worked there traditionally were the breadwinners, what did you expect would happen? The issue is not that you are getting equal pay for equal work. It is that women want to remove the responsibility that men have traditionally had while getting all the benefits. Part of the problem is women have not held up their end of the bargain. That is, if you want to take on the role of earning more, you are A. Going to raise your expectations for a partner, B. Eliminate a large number of men based on their earnings and C. Be placed in a highly competitive environment that did not care for men before and certainly won't care enough for women now.

Next, women have not entered the job market without changes. They insisted that companies and policies change for them, for better or worse. Better: sexual harassment is a problem. Worse: a woman can use the system to blackmail or coerce someone just as women were coerced to do sexual favours for promotions or raises. Now, what happens to the average guy in these instances? He is not extended the same level of protection. If he is sexually harassed and appears before an all woman HR (so many HR positions are held by women) what guarantee does he have that his sexual harassment complaint will be taken as seriously? We live in a world where men as sexual victims is seen as an urban myth while women are allegedly getting violently attacked and raped daily. Imagine being the guy on the receiving end trying to explain her advances were unwelcome compared to a woman who can report a guy for simply making her uncomfortable from a comment.

That aside the concern many men have is that of their obsolescence. What role can men fulfill when their traditional ones are being taken away? Men have made space for women to the point that there are almost no boys only clubs. If you are a boy scout, you may as well be a young supporter of the patriarchy unless your group allows girls in. Heaven forbid men want a barber shop to themselves. What about women's only gyms, insurance agencies and shelters? If men want in they are denied. So no equal space has been afforded to men.

This is the context men find themselves in. Women increasingly taking on more masculine roles. But wait, what if he takes on a feminine role? Maybe he can offer her something that women offered men before? Maybe he can be a good dad to the kids? Nope, unemployed men do not get the same love either. No one is saying pay women less, but ladies, what exactly are you leaving for men when there is so little left? How can a man be relevant or even appeal to you without earning more or equal to you when you prefer to marry equal or up? Why have you not adjusted your expectations while insisting men adjust theirs? Why have you not offered men the opportunity to be a great supporter to your success? You cannot earn equal or more but expect men to match you or do better. Men do not mind a women earning less or nothing but no one is interested in the men in the unemployment line.

I also enjoy having the right to vote, attend college or advance in the corporate world if I choose, but that doesn’t mean I’d like to go out and aggressively pursue men for sex and relationships.

Again, no one is saying deny women the vote but women have not kept up their end of the bargain. The issue is not your education or how much you earn but that you do not want to be restricted to feminine roles only, while restricting men to masculine ones. In other words, you want the benefits that masculinity affords you: independence, emtering competitive work environments, dominating the job market... But somehow attracting a man who earns more and is more masculine. So you freed yourselves from the more feminine roles of motherhood and nurturers to compete with men yet men have not been given the same leeway. A man cannot be passive, offer to be a stay at home dad or wait for women to pursue him and expect to be sexually succesful. In fact women may choose to swap between both roles without anyone having a problem. Even questioning her decision to be more masculine is an issue, but a feminine man gets little if any attention. He will probably be told to man up and take the lead but how when you have taken the few sure ways he can do so? At least offer them an alternative.

Another point about this is the assumption that true equality means being like men or taking on masculine roles. Feminists have women convinced that feminine roles are somehow worth less than masculine ones despite the important roles women play in giving birth to kids, nurturing and teaching them. With birth control you now have the option to ditch those roles to be "equal" to men. How was being a woman before and being feminine make you less of a human being? Feminism taught you that being a woman sucked and being a man is awesome. But being a man comes with consequences as does taking on masculine roles. The issue men are pointing out is not just that masculinity is not easy but if you want to compete and play with the boys, it is not easy.

Men never had it all nor were they having fun at work. If women want to take on more masculine roles because they fear gwnder stereotypes and its limitations then fine. But take note, it has killed things like chivalry. Men no longer care about women and children first when the boat is sinking. Men are quietly waiting for the penny to drop when women realise that being a guy sucks and that there are expectations placed on men and their traditional roles. Now women complain when those expectations are placed on them. Look closely at what you said:

IMO, wanting men to take an active role in seduction has nothing to do with wanting fair pay. Wanting a masculine partner doesn’t mean a woman has to give up all her legal rights. And a woman not wanting her ass pinched at work doesn't somehow make her a hypocrite who demands only men adhere to "traditional gender roles".

No one ever said these things are okay. What they disagree with is the belief that you can move and shift your position as you see fit. You want to be submissive in the bedroom but dominate at work and you have the option to be stay at home moms so you don't have to have the burden of being the sole breadwinner. You want men to actively pursue you yet will exclude men who are not ambitious enough or are unemployed. Women still prefer men work and the more she earns the greater her expectations will be.

If you want to be approached, go ask men what makes them want to approach. Does a feminine and pleasant demeanour make him want to approach or does a masculine, aggressive demeanour make him want to say hi? If she still wants men to approach she needs to appeal to what men like, not tell men to change so she doesn't have to give up any of the perks of masculinity. This is when women say men cannot handle a strong woman, but often it is the aggressive attitude that puts men off. And what about her expectations? If he earns less or is unemployed it is already an uphill battle. The consequences of taking on masculine roles means sometimes doing masculine things and women don't want that. They want to earn the money, climb the corporate ladder but still want men to earn more, find them attractive and be given the flexibility to pick and choose what role they want to fulfill. Men don't get that privilege. Then when a man says "well you wanted equality" women complain that having to do the hard work sucks. Well, it sucks to be a guy. It sucks to take on the bulk of the financial responsibility. It sucks to approach. Rejection sucks. Not getting romantic attention sucks (as you pointed out about not being approached) and not fitting into a gender role sucks because the opposite sex doesn't like it. This is equality and you were protected from having to do the masculine stuff before, but now that you have it, you realise it sucks and want society to once again change to cater for you.

dragoness_leclerq · 2017-02-03T07:02:59+00:00

I have no issue with women receiving equal pay for the same job, and I've never sexually harrassed anyone.

So what's in it for me?

BPremium · 2017-02-03T15:28:09+00:00

I look at it the way of equivalent exchange. There are 2 sets of rules that both genders have to abide by. One is the State/country law and one is social convention laws. Before feminism, the playing field was even. Men made more, but were expected to approach women, woo them, and provide for them. Women saw they were disadvantaged in the State law area and complained about it. Feminism came about and fought for that change. In order to keep the playing field fair, men thought it would mean that the social convention law that expected us to approach, protect, and provide would free us from that as well. But when it was time to address that part, women dug their heels in and refused to adjust the social law, because it benefitted them. So feminism became more about giving/keeping privileges to/fir women rather than actual equality.

If you want equality, you have to compromise to get a fair playing field. Since women, in general, refuse to adjust the social convention law, it appears that they only care about privileges and want to shuck any responsibility that comes with it.

Lonny_zone · 2017-02-03T05:54:13+00:00

It's simply annoying because it really is picking and choosing privileges. Perhaps it isn't logical to be annoyed, but wanting a masculine partner yet advocating against the downsides of masculinity isn't logical either (I don't see you doing that here, but that is what some feminists do.)

This annoyance doesn't apply to ideas like equal pay, it applies to feminists saying they want to be treated equally, but then they go punching a man in the face and assume they have the privilege not to be punched back. It's annoying when feminists exploit their privileges (like hitting men and knowing they are protected by the fact that men are shamed for hitting women).

Archwinger · 2017-02-03T04:36:12+00:00

Equal rights but an unequal burden to perform sounds an awful lot like privilege.

sublimemongrel · 2017-02-03T05:47:18+00:00

I'm confused as to when women got paid less for the exact same job, and the same hours. Hasn't the wage gap been busted?

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2017-02-03T09:37:57+00:00

Your post is all over the place. If a woman complains that men aren't approaching then men, being problem solvers, will naturally suggest a solution, eg. 'try approaching men for a change,' (it's what we have to do to women if we want sex).

Also, freedom comes with a price. You can't expect freedom and security. If you want to be free then you have to take the consequences that come with that. Saying, that you want to be free to do certain things (work, earn the same as men, go to college, etc.) is very different that saying that you want to be free from certain things (sexual harassment, etc.), because what you're essentially saying in the latter is that you want some kind of enforced (by men) control system in place that prevents others (i.e. men) from being free to pursue their own desires.

You want men to take an active role in seduction, but also to be able to punish them (via sexual harassment laws) if they happen to displease you.

EGOtyst · 2017-02-03T04:50:00+00:00

You are right. Men and women should earn exactly the same amount of money for performing the same exact job. In fact, that's the law. Has been for a while. The fact that men are statistically more likely to be the primary breadwinner, doesn't matter.

As an employer, why should I care that the man is more likely, than the woman, to need the money to take care of a family? Fuck him!

I say that tongue-in-cheek, but I am trying to make a legitimate point through colorful language: perceived pay gaps, real sexual discrimination gaps, and the other rights and laws women champion for are DIRECTLY tied to traditional gender roles.

Men earn more? Well, men are more often the breadwinner. Have been for centuries.

Men sexually harass more? Well, men are more often required to be the assertive/"romantically aggressive" party in a relationship. Have been for centuries.

Wanting the protection under the law, yet also not accepting the social undertones and associated role changes, just makes people guilty of wanting to have their cake and eat it, too. Because the "traditional gender roles" and the surface "equality" are inexorably linked.

gasparddelanuit · 2017-02-03T16:07:55+00:00

Feminists want advantageous equality, as they see it. They do not restrict this quest to equality before the law. They want political and social equality too. Ultimately, they want equality of outcome across the board, as a minimum, since they assert that women and men are essentially the same, so differences in outcome are attributable to discrimination. Subsequently, they support a myriad of artificial social engineering initiatives to achieve this end. If women outstrip men in certain advantageous areas, all the better as far as they are concerned. Moreover, if men are unfairly disadvantaged as a result of some of these initiatives, too bad. Enclosing all of this is a disregard for and demonization of men, accompanied by an entitled and unappreciative expectation that men work with women to help them achieve equality of outcome in areas they see as advantageous to women, but continue to abide by unequal gender roles when not to do so would be disadvantageous to women.

It’s the totality of this mind-set and these objectives that many men object to. If equality across the board is the stated goal, then it should apply across the board, not only when it is to women’s advantage, but also when it is to their disadvantage. Advocating for cherry picked equality in certain instances, on the basis of being equal to men, but then in the same breath supporting and even advocating preferential treatment, on the basis of being distinct from men, is what annoys a lot of men. This is called trying to have the best of both worlds or having your cake and eating it. It would be far less annoying and less objectionable if feminists where honest about seeking women’s advantage, rather than masquerading as guardians of equality.

Alth12 · 2017-02-03T07:45:52+00:00

Because generally, women want male rights without the male consequences or responsability. So effectively privilege. Something women had since the industrial revolution.

Alth12 · 2017-02-03T06:03:15+00:00

It doesn't make sense. Fair pay has nothing to do with gender roles in dating. They just don't want to approach or pay for dates so they conflate it with a non related issue to try and shame women with the equality card into doing the work they don't want to or can't do.

Funny thing is these same guys call forward, sexually available women low value sluts.

Tells you what their true motivation is.

dragoness_leclerq · 2017-02-03T15:11:34+00:00

Red pill guys (and sexist guys in general) believe that dealing with getting sexually harassed, putting out for husband's you don't really like, and all the other shit you described evens out all the stuff that men don't like about their lives.

If women all of a sudden get real equality, real opportunity, get treated like professionals at work... well, those guys still have their shitty lives. It seems to them as tho women are "getting their cake and eating it too".

In other words, since they feel they are suffering they want everyone else (especially women) to suffer as well. Like a big crab pot.

Alth12 · 2017-02-03T08:33:19+00:00

I think you are right, they shouldn't be anything to do with equality, but unfortunately they are. I would say there is even more pressure on men when they approach now than in the past thanks to societal ideas about being aggressive in pursuit being seen as creepy or even as a rapist. Then you have the SJWs redefinition of rape to mean any unwanted attention from men. So by that any man who approaches you has the worry of being accused of mental rape etc.

The majority of women wouldn't think or do the above and love being approached even when nor interested in the guy. But surely you can see that the narrative pushed by that vocal crazy minority has put a strain on us men and male sexuality in general and can even get us to think we are being respectful by not approaching. Men are taught now thanks to the crazies taking over education about the misogyny of unwanted advances and how the woman will let you know if she wants you. Easy to see how that's pushed a lot of guys to think the act of blind approaching itself is sexist so we wait for signs of interest. Unfortunately a lot of women's signs of interest are so subtle men don't get them, and the woman if she likes him enough will just end up approaching herself.

It's a shame because if Fifty Shades or even romance novels tell us anything it's that women crave and want masculine men and shows of male sexuality.

rreliable · 2017-02-03T11:47:14+00:00

If a woman is concerned because her partner is making under half her salary

The economic reality of the last 50 years is that salaries and all other forms of income and wealth are generally to be found on the extremes.

Year after year, a smaller and smaller percentage of employees get a bigger and bigger salary. While at the same time, the relative income of the great majority of employees gets smaller and smaller.

Basic math tells you that it is getting more and more statistically unlikely for two people who happen to be in a couple to both be in the tiny club (which gets tinier every year, relative to the mass) of people with good salaries.

In order to get a good salary, you need a certain amount of good fortune. Hard work doesn't guarantee success any more. Hard work doesn't even guarantee you can be middle class.

questioningwoman · 2017-02-03T16:01:52+00:00

This is exactly what men point out all the time about male and female "equality". "Equality" means only what the woman in question wants it to mean at that time. Women want only the "equality" they want; and then when it comes to relationships with men, want everything to revert back to traditional gender roles.

Women want to vote and work; but they want to be delicate little flowers at home.

Women want to earn money and run with the big boys at the office; but they expect and demand their male dates to pay for everything on the date; and expect their male partners to "pay their own way".

Women want to bust everyone's balls out of the home; but do not want to support a SAHD.

Double standards abound.

You don't really want equality. You want all the privileges and emoluments of "equality", but you don't want any of the responsibilities that go with it. You want to earn the money but you want to keep all of it for yourself. You want to earn the money but you don't want to use any of it to be the primary breadwinner. You want all the authority, but you don't want the responsibility of having to use that authority to take care of shit that needs taken care of. You want to look and act like a ballbuster, but when it comes time to actually kick ass and take names, you want to look to a "Big Stwong Man" to actually do the work and pwotect your widdle self.

That's why the pushback is what it is. You want "equality"? Fine. Here it is. Get your own checkbook out. Get your own credit card out. Pay for the shit your own goddamn self. Support your SAH spouse using YOUR money. You work the long hours and face the consequences of your own work fuckups yourself. Fix your own leaky faucets and nonworking toilets. Take out your own trash. Change your own flat tires or pay someone else to do it, using YOUR OWN money. Provide your own physical security. Repel would-be burglars and assailants your own self.

prodigy2throw · 2017-02-03T04:02:41+00:00

Bill Burr had a funny bit about the wage gap. "You know why women get paid less?because if we're on a boat and it's sinking, women and children get to go first. That's what that 30% premium is. "

Basically, if you want all the privileges you better be ready to take on all the responsibilities.

give_me_shinies · 2017-02-03T06:14:00+00:00

It's b/c of all the dumb feminists who tout equality with men as their highest goal, so a lot of dumb men took this to mean "women want to be men".

the_calibre_cat · 2017-02-03T07:03:25+00:00

Because the desire is equality of outcome ("the races and sexes in this industry do not perfectly line up with the racial and sexual distribution of all of society! Biiiigotryyyyy!!!!"), rather than equality of opportunity.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2017-02-03T07:12:37+00:00

I think you should try to interpret these sentiments a little bit more charitably.

Of course no one's sex should impact their legal rights (that said, these days it is arguably men who are legally less-protected than women).

But you seem to interpret the "but you wanted equality!" thing as a personal demand regarding you specifically. It isn't. If you want traditional gender roles in romantic relationships, within a framework of equality under the law, that's a personal preference you're absolutely entitled to have.

Just don't think that men have to cater to your preference, or that men should cater to your preference, or that your preference is the only valid preference to have.

In addition, if you think you have the right to have your own preferences you should also support the right of others to have their own preferences. So you shouldn't shame men for wanting to live lives outside the confines of traditional masculinity.

So, basically, as long as you make it clear your personal preference is a personal preference, its a legitimate preference to have.

That said, you should recognize that the male role in relationships isn't always a privilege party. It comes with drawbacks and burdens, some of which were compensated for by aspects of the role that women were saddled with (i.e. he works hard during the day, she takes care of him at night and keeps the home working).

If you just want a man who'll be an active seducer? That's fine! Again, personal preference in romantic affairs. But if you want a man to be a sole-breadwinning high-earner who'll spoil you like a princess and give you everything you want, but in turn contribute nothing to make his own life easier and more pleasant... well yeah, that does come off as very lopsided and wanting all the benefits of traditionalism with none of the drawbacks.

winterfrostland · 2017-02-03T13:34:37+00:00

You are not owed attention or validation. What is it with all these women in modern western society complaining that men won't look at them, or talk to them, or approach them, or date them, or give them enough attention? If men aren't owed sex then women aren't owed validation in other areas either. You are going to have to deal with it.

BPremium · 2017-02-03T11:43:01+00:00

All this thread proves is that there are still men who are threatened by women who can outearn them. The hamsters are spinning hard here.

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INFPGeorge · 2017-02-03T07:43:50+00:00

Like many things progressives do, they're not bad ideas it's that they seem to want to go around any legalities and just protest until a populist caves for them. There's no solid agreement on affirmitive action over most of the political spectrum and it's annoying to see people justify their actions by saying "the right side of history".

I feel like the movement has so many critics as it seems like a movement by angsty college students, for angsty college students. There seems to be a smug arrogance amongst the group that makes a lot of people sick of it.

I suppose what I'm saying is that people dislike the movement far more than the policies.

dragoness_leclerq · 2017-02-03T09:56:18+00:00

So as others have written previously. You want all the advantages of equality, but none of the disadvantages.

yeahrune · 2017-02-03T10:59:41+00:00

Do you believe in freedom of association? If an employer wants to pay black men more than white women for the same amount of work or vice versa that is completely ethical. It is between the employer and the employee and it is completely unethical for you to involve the guns of the state for you to dictate what two consenting adults do behind closed doors. You talk about rights yet you are ok with violating the employers right to pay whatever they want with their employees and for the latter to accept it.

despisedlove2 · 2017-02-03T13:06:38+00:00

Depends on who they spend their time copying.

dragoness_leclerq · 2017-02-03T13:12:50+00:00

It's quite simple. Forced equality requires someone to pick up the slack. In the "pillosphere", men aren't too keen on any man condoning that continuing downward spiral by picking up the slack themselves.

EchoZeroEleven · 2017-02-03T13:35:51+00:00

I don't understand what you're asking.

Equal opportunities

Or

Equal results.

Pick one.

quicklogaccount · 2017-02-03T16:26:47+00:00

There's nothing to explain, you are right. There's just some little aspects that you should account for.

I rather like being paid equally for doing the exact same job as my male counterparts

If you're in a country that grants maternity leaves, the risk that you ever take one will effect your pay. That's not having unequal rights, it's just about your employer being averse to taking chances.

advance in the corporate world

Many careers require that the person makes herself more available to the career itself than she makes herself available to the family.
For as long as the trend remain "once children are born, men work harder and women look for flexible working hours", women will be deferred in favor of men in these fields.
What you have to work to change there isn't the "evil sexist corporate world". You have to change the trend. Unless you're in a Scandinavian country that has so much money that it forces and enforces men and women alike into taking "maternity" leaves.
Around here women usually try to sell some of their leave period for a bit more of money.

wanting men to take an active role in seduction has nothing to do with wanting fair pay.

I get it, and it is not that I disagree, but, why is this an issue?
Just as long as you don't take an active role you'll only meet men that take an active role.
Men can take the passive role as well. Many men do it somehow by waiting for not so subtle hints before approaching, I know a few.

Gnometard · 2017-02-03T16:32:43+00:00

Because there is an idea that equality means we need to watch what we say around you and treat you differently, and I hate that.

Entropy-7 · 2017-02-03T18:35:40+00:00

It's just a bit for women to complain about the experiencing crappy things that men have put up with for ages while demanding "equal rights", but only with respect to things that men have had in the past but women want, almost exclusively money or prestige.

Plus, there are some rather severe implications to demanding the same pay as men and at the same time demand that men earn more than them.

IMO, wanting men to take an active role in seduction has nothing to do with wanting fair pay.

I suppose the connection is that you want men to be sexually aggressive (but not too much and not in the office) but are somehow offended that men are more aggressive in the workplace as well: they work longer hours, they pursue promotions, they take on more responsibilities, they negotiate salaries harder. Of course men make more money, even if they have a vaguely similar job title as a woman.

gopher_glitz · 2017-02-04T00:49:19+00:00

Remind me again what rights men have that women don't? I guess except for registering for the draft.

[deleted] · 2017-02-04T16:38:42+00:00

Everybody hates it when someone raises the bar. When a guy treats a girl you are trying to get with way better, guys get upset and talk smack about him. When a girl shows up to a party and it is evident she puts in way more effort into her appearance, the other girls get upset and start talking smack about her. People are too sensitive and when they realize how high the bar is to be with a woman they want, they get upset. Then they default to this argument how it was easier way back when because they didn't have to compete against women's paychecks. Outside of the obviously radical feminists, I think men just use feminism as an easy target to unload their negative emotions. The same negative emotions they experience because they aren't happy with themselves. Same thing with overweight women complaining how men are shallow/people set unrealistic beauty standards/girls shouldn't be prized for their beauty.

[deleted] · 2017-02-04T19:44:25+00:00

Modern gender dynamics mean women give nothing of value to men but expect all the old perks. Nah, doesn't work that way.

kick6 · 2017-02-06T23:39:00+00:00

I rather like being paid equally for doing the exact same job as my male counterparts

You are

but that doesn’t mean I want to wear the pants in the family or be the sole breadwinner for my SAHD husband.

And that's the problem. You want the high paying jobs that men used to use to support their SAHW....................and then you still want to look further up the corporate ladder for a husband. Except for now there's, like, 10 dudes up there and 100 corporate-hustling women all fighting for them.

In conclusion: Equality isn't a buffet where you pick just income equality, you get it with, well, income equality with your spouse too.

ClarityofDisaster · 2017-02-09T16:06:00+00:00

I rather like being paid equally for doing the exact same job as my male counterparts, but that doesn’t mean I want to wear the pants in the family or be the sole breadwinner for my SAHD husband. I also enjoy having the right to vote, attend college or advance in the corporate world if I choose, but that doesn’t mean I’d like to go out and aggressively pursue men for sex and relationships. I fail to see how wanting equal rights and protections under the law, somehow means I want to be a man.

It doesn't mean you want to be a man. However, it does mean that you're willing to discard gender roles for women but do not want to discard the corresponding roles for men. Since we, as women, are able to have full-time careers, own our own homes/cars/property, vote, attain a political office, and serve in the military...all of which are fairly anti-traditional...you have no leg to stand on when men decide they also don't want to live traditionally. I for one am against mandatory gender roles. Every wo/man should live as they wish without social pressures to conform in ways uncomfortable to them as individuals.

Title	Why does wanting equality in the workforce or freedom from sexual harassment mean women wish to be men or want total societal androgyny?
Author	dragoness_leclerq
Upvotes	30
Comments	491
Date	February 3, 2017 3:27 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5rrlod/why_does_wanting_equality_in_the_workforce_or/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-does-wanting-equality-in-the-workforce-or.270277 https://theredarchive.com/post/270277

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