Does body count actually matter?

AffectionateIsopod59 · 2023-12-26T20:30:14+00:00

From a guy's perspective, for me sex involves a emotional attachment. It also involves the risk of disease. So I choose not to unless I am in a relationship. A partner with the same views, while not a hard limit, is an attractive trait.

Scabondari · 2023-12-26T21:30:36+00:00

Of the men that care only a fraction will ask, the rest just make assumptions by observing behavior or waiting for women to tell on themselves and then silently decide not to commit long term

robikn22 · 2023-12-26T20:30:35+00:00

It mattered to me. My husband was in the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ camp, but when we talked about past relationships I brought it up and neither of us were concerned with our mutual numbers. (Both under 5)

I didn’t see the necessity in detailing past experiences, but I did want him to know that I took sex and relationships seriously and that I recognized the impact it has outside of immediate physical pleasure.

It was important to me that the man I planned on committing my life to knew all of me; the good, the bad & the ugly.

youllknowwhenitstime · 2023-12-26T19:13:33+00:00

Men, structurally, care. But in our current culture, 99% of them can't do anything about that preference. In cultures where the option exists, but isn't assumed to be universally present, they'll ask.

As you yourself say, in a promiscuous by default culture, they won't ask because they "don't want to know." But that's not quite true, is it? If they were serious about a woman and then learned she had only ever been with them, they'd be thrilled. With a low likelihood of that fantasy being fulfilled, though, most would prefer to not know and just assume whatever number they find tolerable. Similarly, your comment about not being easy early on is about moderating their assumptions - which you wouldn't have to do at all if they actually didn't care.

If your point is "a woman with dozens of notches could theoretically start acting innocent and most men would be none the wiser and never find out" that may not be entirely untrue (I do think bonding ability for both sexes gets impacted progressively, showing up in tons of small ways, but I'm not sure the average guy would be able to identify why there is a difference). The standard advice you'll receive about body count around here is don't ask, don't tell, and the exhortations to limit body count are mostly done out of concern of wasting time, taking on unnecessary risk, and experiencing personal negative mental health effects. The consideration to preserve virginity - rather than merely limit adding to an n-count - takes SMV impact into consideration more heavily. There's clearly a more significant change between 0 and 1 than 1 and 2, and all the moreso than between 14 and 15.

Lord_Mr_Bunny · 2023-12-27T05:19:07+00:00

Most men care… most men are not willing to ask. Like you mention, your boyfriend as well as the other guys don’t even want to hear about it. We don’t. It’s heart breaking.. it makes it difficult to see your partner while having that image in your head. Most men are not strong enough to ask. Myself included. If I get emotional attach even if I want to know I’m terrified of asking… cause if I ask.. and I don’t like the answer.. I might not be able to see her the same again… might have issues in the relationship… this terrifies me.. that I could lose someone just because my heart can’t handle the fact she had sex before me… it is sad.. it is ferrying.. most men aren’t strong enough to ask

AffectionateIsopod59 · 2023-12-26T20:42:37+00:00

I was not that way at. 18 either. We all have to learn and grow. But it is a conversation I had with my kids. Both for safety from disease and the risks of pregnancy.

Nessa_Morgoth · 2023-12-27T05:23:27+00:00

I'm a woman and for me, body count on men matters. I can't be with a man that has been an ultra fucker or went to prostitutes as normal basis. But it's my opinion and with this I can understand if a man judges me for my body account because I judge them the same way lol

Egoistchan · 2023-12-26T20:22:11+00:00

If your count is significantly higher than a potential partners, yes. For men AND women.

A high amount of sexual partners has negative relationship outlooks for both sexes. A man who has slept around with impunity is a red flag and someone I intrinsically find unattractive. I don't care about "lock and key" analogies or pre-selection lol.

MoonShimmer1618 · 2023-12-26T19:21:16+00:00

yes. even if i’m never asked, it matters to myself.

JustAnotherBoymoder · 2023-12-26T20:14:40+00:00

If we're looking through a pragmatic rpw lens rather than a moralistic lens, then having a high body count is undesirable since there's more men who desire a low body count over men who desire a high body count. That doesn't mean it's an end all be all by any means though.

ireallyloveoats · 2023-12-26T21:30:19+00:00

SquirrelofLIL · 2023-12-27T03:55:52+00:00

In my experience they're baffled by why it's so low. I thought they would be impressed but I'm crestfallen that they aren't.

Cosima_Fan_Tutte · 2023-12-26T19:10:57+00:00

Recommended reading: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/s/Q61oqpA81Y

knowidotoo · 2023-12-27T07:40:39+00:00

I can really only speak from my personal perspective as well as discussions with people I've had. But from what I have come to think is it is sort of a counterweight to the risk/reward scales.

In most discussions I've had with people on the subject. even though "body count" was the topic of discussion, every "reason or concern" always seemed to circle around what one risks losing. The permiscuirty actually rarely seemed to be an actual concerning factor in the discussion. In fact, I'd say over half of the people I've talked to seem to prefer a woman have experience or be "skilled".

What actually seemed to be of concern for them all was concepts like, divorce, time lost, wasted effort, monetary harm, assets, etc. Almost like the running consensus was, the higher the body count, the easier she will just...leave for greener pastures.

Now interestingly, a running theme that seemed to be fairly consistent in all of my discussions is not that there *was* a higher body count but rather the *how* the body count got attained.

No one seemed to have an issue with a woman who just enjoyed getting laid while single. If she goes to the bar or has the occasional swipe and hookup while single. Everyone i've talked to seems meh about it.

It was things like "homie hoppers, woman who bounced from "relationship to relationship" in rapid succession, had multiple "situationships" at one time, or who just rode every pole that swung her way indiscriminately that were the problem areas to them.

But woman who just enjoyed sex, but who for all intents and purposes showed themselves to respect relationships and be a good partner. the guys i've spoken to had no issues with the concept. I find myself of a similar mindset.

that just the mentality of maybe 30+ around the fire/over brews talks though so bear that in mind.

Livid-Mathematician3 · 2023-12-26T23:53:05+00:00

It’s been a major factor for me in choosing partners. I’m a late 30’s male.

my_mix_still_sucks · 2023-12-26T22:04:55+00:00

Yes it matters 100%

sushiwalrus · 2023-12-27T17:07:58+00:00

It only “counts” if you’ve slept with people the man knows in order for it to get back to them. Otherwise they have no way of knowing your past and most men don’t care/want to know. The issue arises if you have some sort of reputation so that the information is forced on them by outside parties.

Men are the ones telling other men about women’s body counts a lot of the time unprompted. They aren’t asking women directly or even other men.

Saborizado · 2023-12-26T19:33:57+00:00

The sexual past is a fairly accurate indicator of certain values and views regarding relationships. Few high-value men will want to devote time, effort and attention to a woman when others have achieved the same level of intimacy by offering much less.

That said, it really depends on where you live, the man's values and views regarding relationships.

In my case, I'm very unlikely to ask that question unless a woman really interests me for a long term relationship, and I wouldn't be interested in having one long term if I previously assumed that number might be high. Asking directly only makes sense if you think the woman will be honest with the answer, otherwise, it's wiser to simply observe her behavior. Any attentive man with some experience will be able to spot signs in things like the places she likes to hang out, the clothes she wears, the quality of the people she hangs out with, etc.

Expecting a virgin is not a realistic expectation, but what is important is that the woman has reserved herself for her relationships.

AnonTheGreat01 · 2023-12-27T10:57:16+00:00

No high value, intelligent, socially adept man is going to outright ask you for your body count. Why?

Women lie
It's bad etiquette
It signals insecurity

So instead, we screen you in other ways that are more subtle. If you are an intelligent, socially adept woman, you will notice when a man is screening you.

We try to figure out how many exes you have. If your friends are sluts or in LTRs. If you are a party girl. If you are into drugs. If you have high risk taking behaviour in general (tattoo's, motorcycle, cigarettes & alcohol to name a few) What kind of background do you have (family). Good relationship with your father etc. Basically, we try to figure out your (sexual) history through conversation that on a surface level does not have the ulterior motive of screening you for low body count.

Again, if you weren't aware before, after reading what I typed above, you will know from now on when a man is screening you. And there's not much you can do because it's not possible to fake all those things for a long period of time unless you are an expert manipulator.

If a man is doing these things, he's potentially interested in your for a LTR. Again, no guarantees, but it's a very strong indicator.

kendrac83 · 2023-12-27T18:47:51+00:00

I don't think it makes you unmarriagable. It's more about your present mindset. Have you regretted it? Have you matured? Have you calmed down the impulsiveness in regards to random men? Judging by your posts, I'd say you have. The same standard goes for men. If they've been promiscuous, essentially used women and don't regret it when they finally decide to marry, then I don't think there is much hope for an easy or happy marriage. I think such men usually end up cheating on their wife in one way or another.

akitty247 · 2023-12-26T19:49:22+00:00

My issue arises when men who have slept around want a virgin. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I fundamentally disagree with hypocrisy.

RedPillDad · 2023-12-26T22:26:55+00:00

This subject will fuck with your head if you let it. I have walked off of two jobs because thoughts of being a whore have swarmed through my head, and it disrupted me to the point where I no longer felt I could continue working. I have strained my relationship with my parents because I blamed them for my prior promiscuity. The shame has weighed on me quite a lot and worst of all, I haven’t quite figured out how to stop it from getting worse, and have continued to sleep with guys since then.

I’m sharing with this with you not to overshare but to try and remind you that you don’t have a time machine. You cannot go back to your virgin self. You (and I) have to accept that this is where you are now, and mitigate the damage as it is.

If it’s any comfort I think most people outside (and even some inside) of RP spaces would consider you low body count. For a lot of people “high body count” starts at 10. But why does it matter to you? You’re in a healthy LTR! Focus on being grateful for what you have because shit like this will sabotage it.

I’d kill to have 7 partners tbh. My body count is a little less than twice as high as yours, not counting cyber stuff. There are plenty of women like me who are super promiscuous and you will always have an edge over us so long as you keep your number as it is.

Dry_Highway3865 · 2023-12-27T01:51:12+00:00

If he has to ask, he isn't 'high value' .. He dosent know female behavior and nature enough to discern it.

Women still don't get it, we won't tell you if we've ruled you out of a long term relationship. It'll just occur silently.

EvilDebraBarone · 2023-12-27T11:59:09+00:00

Short answer is yes. Guys care

noxer94 · 2023-12-27T14:56:02+00:00

Men will not ask straight away. Some will take their time, there are subtile hints one can read. Others never will, as they are too afraid to ask and ruin the image they have of their partner.

To answer your question, yes, it does matter.

TheBunk_TB · 2023-12-27T14:57:42+00:00

I never asked, most women let it slip out or hinted at it

Leonhart93 · 2023-12-26T21:50:17+00:00

It matters and I can give you some very basic analogies that makes it very obvious that it does. Let's imagine we have 3 very similar girls. One is a virgin, one has a body count of 10 and one has 50. Overwhelmingly men will choose the virgin girl over the other two, but if they don't have that option they will look towards the 2nd girl, while the 3rd one might not be an option even if there is no one else in the picture. Because there are a lot of risks involved with her.

So basically it's a factor in desirability for serious relationships, and men have to weigh it in balance with other things when considering what options they have.

vandamsam · 2023-12-27T05:46:28+00:00

It matters a lot, let me explain.

If you've never been in a relationship, both men and women have been virgin and decide to vet each other thoroughly get into relationships and then marry.

The bond they will have will be much stronger, much healthier, and they'll make sure not to give up on each other if problems come into their life. They have practiced being committed so well that they have worked on being disciplined to each others commitment. That's how loyalty is formed by default.

Their DNA will be really strong as they have only shared their body with one partner only thus, their immune system kind of gets stronger too, due to better mood, healthy and stable relationship will eventually lead into good health thus a stronger immune system.

The children will see a good example set by their parents and will also try to follow their footsteps, which is much ideal for the growth of children as they would receive genuine love and support from their parents.

Now,

Let's see what happens to the opposite side of things, which we all are observing these days

People sleep with multiple partners. They are practicing non commitment, lack of discipline, and giving into their impulses easily.

They feel guilty as the body count increases, and the feeling of void starts to kick in.

The pair bonding chemical weakens thus it becomes difficult for them to commit with their long term partner thus making that relationship a miserable one for both and in this if they have children then they also have to face the consequences.

With regards to health, there is a higher chance that you take in the disease of the other person. Weaker DNA, immune system, stress, and plethora of health issues from STDs to HIV and many more.

I can write more points about the drawbacks of having more than one partner, but I'm pretty sure most of you guys have already seen those examples around you. So I don't feel the need to elaborate more.

The choice is yours as to what kind of life do you want to live, but it's pretty obvious that the life with only one partner feels a bit of a safer bet if you wish to be in a long term relationship.

If you are a man or a women and If you've never been in a relationship and is a virgin as well, it's better that you find someone who has never been in a relationship and is a virgin like you. Basically, look for someone with the same experience as you are. You'll know the reason behind it. Once you experience that, I won't need to explain that further.

Be honest about your past and seek honesty from others, there's actually no reason to lie about because sex is still considered as taboo but all of us reading this are already a product of sex so don't be shy to discuss that. Understand the intent behind why and why not they have indulged in the sexual act.

If you have had multiple relationships, body counts, it's better that you be with someone who has same experience as you, in this way since both of you had multiple partners you are in much better position to understanding each other's perspective and will operate from that base level understanding which will help you stick around with your long term partner much better and you are better off avoiding virgins if you already have a more than one body count. It's not good for their health.

People don't really say this upfront, but deep down, we all want to be with someone who at least has the same level of experience as we have. It becomes unfair for someone who has been virgin by choice their whole life and, in the end, getting with someone who has multiple partners. You might think what's wrong with that, but if you notice, it's a pretty unfair thing for that virgin to have a partner who has high body count and thus inviting all sorts of emotional baggage and health issues.

I can give more examples, but I feel this is a good place to start off and think from this perspective. I'm open to discussing more about this topic down below as I'm really passionate about topics of relationships in general.

I hope I was able to help you out in some way.

rpujoe · 2023-12-26T21:02:10+00:00

Yes. Women's body count matters and here's why...

There is a very good reason why waiting for marriage to have sex became the default practice in the west, and arguably is why western society surpassed all others as monogamy is the bedrock foundation for western civilization. In other words:

𝐓𝐫𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐬𝐦 𝐢𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐥𝐮𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐨 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐛𝐥𝐞𝐦𝐬 𝐰𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐠𝐨𝐭 𝐰𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐝.

If you want data, then here you go...
https://archive.is/9TjpL
https://archive.ph/V2TJb
https://labs.la.utexas.edu/buss/files/2018/07/Kennair-Wyckoff-Asao-Buss-Bendixen-2018-Why-women-regret-more.pdf
https://youtu.be/XTu_wHXwy2U Breaks down the above research.

So what does all that data tell us? It tells us several important things about why woman's body count matters immensely. For starters it demonstrates whether or not she values sex and intimacy, and more importantly it is a measure of her self-control and ability to delay gratification as it is extraordinarily easy for women to have sexual partners. (eg. the marshmallow test)

Furthermore, a woman's body count is nature's way of demonstrating to men that you're loyal and won't run out and cheat on us at the drop of a hat the first time the opportunity comes along.

In other words being a virgin, or at least staying under three bodies if you're older and had a few failed relationships (or widowed), is irrefutable evidence a woman can control her hypergamous nature. The long-term ramifications of the ability to delay gratification and have self-control (not hooking up with hot and exciting Chad & Tyrone) are well studied.

In the end, past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. And a woman's body count, her past behavior, is the #1 predictor of infidelity and divorce according to the mountains of research on the subject over the past few decades. (chronicled above)

To wit, once a woman has 5 partners there is an 80% chance she'll continue to 20+ even if she regrets the previous sexual encounters/partners. Paradoxically, regret and negative feelings towards consensual sex have no impact on the number of future partners women accrue. h/t Alexander Grace

Additionally, women that have more than 3 sexual partners are TWICE the risk of infidelity doubling to 15%, and women with more than 4 sexual partners have a 70% correlated risk of divorce within 10 years! Once women start down the path of promiscuity they stop being relationship material.

Also, going back to the risk of divorce, the research also shows even one previous sexual partner prior to their future husband correlates to a 30% increase in the risk of divorce within 10 years making them a 50/50 coin flip. Who on earth goes skydiving knowing your parachute only works half the time?

In my opinion, and this is backed by ~40 years of research, the sensible solution for men is to adopt a "no hymen, no diamond" policy wrt marriage, and if you are going to accept her having a sexual past, then no more than 2 prior with you being her third. This dramatically lowers the odds of her being alpha widowed, aka stuck on her highest setting. h/t @ItIsHoeMath

Key takeaways:

At 4 sexual partners the incident rate of infidelity doubles to 15%
Women who cheat in relationships overall have 230% higher body counts than those women who never cheat
80% of women who have 5 partners go on to have at least 20 sexual partners h/t Alexander Grace
Divorce rates are closely correlated with women's body count
Satisfaction in long-term relationships drops in lock step with women's body count

The list goes on and on, but the conclusion is always the same:

Men who want a wife and mother of our children, the only way to beat the odds is to marry a virgin. Barring that, a woman who's been with absolutely no more than 1-2 men prior.

Prudent-Quarter714 · 2023-12-27T02:11:39+00:00

I really think it’s relative, it depends on the person you speak to. You will find for some it’s a big deal and you have seen and for some it might not be. I think don’t focus on what someone else is going to think about your body count but what you think of it. I personally think it’s best to wait or if the deed it done to not do it anymore, specially as a woman, but that has more to do with how I feel about it and from my experience.

aslanhatessmeagol · 2023-12-27T04:11:08+00:00

It depends because love is love. If I like that person, I can accept their body count but he must do STDs test before he wanna have sex with me. I will appreciate the honesty. Some people can lie about this. So it is hard to know sometimes.

fluffysnooze · 2023-12-26T22:25:50+00:00

It matters. I asked my spouse before we were intimate. They lied and it wasn’t until years later I found out it was in the double digits. I was naive to think staying with someone who was involved in the casual sex scene was a good idea. People ask because they want to ensure they making a commitment to the right person. If you’re not their person, accept it and find someone compatible. I’m not interested in trying to change anyone but tricking someone into changing their expectations proves you weren’t the right person for them to begin with.

Agile_Ad7971 · 2023-12-26T20:08:35+00:00

It matters because it defines your value as a woman... Maybe women don't like to hear it but no man would like to be with a woman that gave it to everyone before him. Plain truth.

SatyaNi · 2023-12-27T01:39:21+00:00

It matter if a man is innsearch of a LTR. Not only because your past is a good indicator of your futur behaviour, as so many here as stressed earlier. But also because taking a high BC woman will makebyou loose face in a major way. One of an indicatornof à HV Woman, relationship wise is the number of men she refuse herself. No self respecting man is willing to comit to a woman who's body has been passed around without comitment. To make you understand, imagine you give all your wealth for an item which has been passed around by others for a ridiculously low price. Basicaly, there would be those who had the item for cheap and ultimately discarded it as if it was garbage, only for you to come and invest all you have on it. How would you looked ?

Tawny_cat · 2023-12-26T18:45:59+00:00

Of course it matters. Good men won't take a slut as a girlfriend

Time-Algae7393 · 2023-12-27T01:19:28+00:00

It really depends and it's quite situational. If a woman is seen as a catch and exceptionally beautiful, then nothing really matters lol

DarceysExtensions · 2023-12-26T19:21:36+00:00

I have never been asked what my body count is and I would have questioned if I want to date a man who needs to know that.

The only thing that matters to my husband and me, is that since we met, we both had a body count of 1.

Jewelry_lover · 2023-12-26T22:42:58+00:00

No man has ever asked about my body count, ever.

harasquietfish6 · 2023-12-27T00:26:08+00:00

Ironically enough, I use to be scared about my number all the time. But my husband NEVER even asked me. I think the right man will not care (within reason)

Ill_Coffee_6821 · 2023-12-26T19:25:04+00:00

It doesn’t matter. People who ask are insecure. I would never share. And I’d look at any man who asked as inappropriate, insecure, and controlling. What’s happened in the past stays in the past, unless there’s something the person you’re with now needs to know. Or you’re like 22 years old.

stayspaded · 2023-12-26T21:46:45+00:00

In my opinion, your body count doesn’t define you. No matter if it’s high. No matter if it’s low.

AutoModerator · 2023-12-26T18:30:55+00:00

Title: Does body count actually matter?

Author Tequila_Sun_Rise

Full text: I feel like there’s so much discourse on body count, but does this really exist in outside spaces?

I’ve only ever had like two men ask me my body count, and both of those men were very immature and I was not interested in continuing anything.

My boyfriend now, as well as other guys I went on dates with that I would consider high value, have never asked about my body count. In fact, they don’t even want to hear about ex-boyfriends, much less guys I’ve been intimate with.

I honestly think that just by not sleeping with potential suitors outright, they will assume you don’t have a high body count. Or, meeting them in real life instead. I think online dating just gives the connotation of a high body count due to online discourse.

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Buildinsilence · 2023-12-27T06:09:27+00:00

We 100% care when it comes to relationships but not for hook ups

ArkNemesis00 · 2023-12-28T04:12:47+00:00

My husband's previous LTR had a high number of sexual partners. He chose to overlook it at first but it ate at him. The relationship was tumultuous.

My history was very low, and my behavior has always been very different. Hard to say whether the history or the behavior matters more, but in our case, they went hand in hand.

Koriburch · 2023-12-28T17:34:56+00:00

no it’s a archaic way of thinking it’s 2024 now lol

Ok_Praline_2819 · 2023-12-29T22:06:45+00:00

I think caring about it is exactly why they choose not to ask. Why seek out more things to fret over? I don't ask my bf if his ex girlfriends were prettier than me or if they were better in bed than me. Do I care? Kind of I guess. Do I want to know? HELL NO!

undercovertrad · 2024-01-03T03:13:58+00:00

This was something that was asked about and mattered to both my husband and me. We directly discussed it while dating and trying to decide if we were a good long term match.

I firmly believe it lends itself to poor compatibility and more long term issues for a couple with vastly different N counts to join up. Whether male or female, how loosely you treat sex and how many people you’ve slept with says something about your values, tendency towards risk taking, and general attitudes about sex. Those things lining up between people matter a lot in a relationship.

I’ve had a few serious relationships and this has been something discussed in all of them. My husband would have flat out not considered me as wife material if I’d had an N count wildly above his. (I can honestly say the same, because excessively promiscuous men are a big turn off for me too.) FWIW, he’d never even heard of the red pill or adjacent material when we met. This was just an instinct he had.

Title	Does body count actually matter?
Author	Tequila_Sun_Rise
Upvotes	41
Comments	154
Date	December 26, 2023 6:30 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/18reosc/does_body_count_actually_matter/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/does-body-count-actually-matter.1241599 https://theredarchive.com/post/1241599

Comments

𝐓𝐫𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐬𝐦 𝐢𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐥𝐮𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐨 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐛𝐥𝐞𝐦𝐬 𝐰𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐠𝐨𝐭 𝐰𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐝.