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[–]dametime223 130 points131 points132 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Off topic, but I wanted to note this:
Even though you improve yourself everyday ( career, looks, gym, social skills, experiences) don't stop working on yourself when you start getting results with women.
Most guys throw their ambitions off when they start getting pussy - I saw this ruin their lives. Even though I go out with girls at night, I am still working/in the gym the next morning.
[–]Markyy47 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is gold !
[–]DaxMan12 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Super important point. You should be doing it for you anyways. The women will come (or at least, react well to) to guy who has his shit together.
[–]20ftScarf 213 points214 points215 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Haha, yes. It’s the only way. I focused on playing guitar and becoming as attractive as possible. Did about 500 push-ups a day, started playing shows, touring and got a tiny bit of radio play. Now my biggest romantic problem is that my girlfriend hates how much I get hit on.
Neediness is probably the least attractive quality in a human. Which really sucks, because we all need people.
[–]dametime223 31 points32 points33 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Great job man. Could you tell me how did you become as attractive as possible? Also besides of looks, why do you think girls hit on you that much?
[–]20ftScarf 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Becoming as attractive as possible. Ok. For me, there were a few easy ones. My hairline receded, but I had kept my long hair. It was really not working. So I cut my hair and I proudly rock my massive forehead. My teeth were fucked from smoking, drinking wine and not caring about myself, so I started brushing twice everyday, got some whitening strips etc.
Lost a little weight, bought clothes that fit.
It’s not like I look like a different person, I still have a huge nose, awkward slouching posture, I’m not super tall, etc. I just look I’m I’m taking care of myself.
That that breeds confidence. I feel good about myself, so I stand up a little straighter, I smile more, which women seem to like, and I make them feel comfortable. Because I’m happy and confident they don’t feel like they have to reassure me or cheer me up.
Why I get hit on is tougher for me because I’m a slightly oblivious to it until my gf points it out. It’s almost always after a show. I play music, host a podcast (No Cover - Live from Savage Henry Comedy Club if you want to check it out lol) do standup, so I’m on stage 3 or more nights every week.
This is a very, very, very good way to meet people, and a particularly good way to meet women. You can meet strangers way more efficiently. In 20 minutes, 100 people can get to know you. They won’t all like you or want to sleep with you, but the ones that do will usually come up to you afterward.
It’s really just a numbers game. There are a certain number of women in the world who are potentially interested in you. You can increase that number a bit by becoming your best self. But then it’s just about finding one of those women. The more you meet, the more likely you are to do it :)
I hope this helps some.
I’m not some super hot dude, I’m dirt poor and I’m not famous. I’m just doing what I love, I feel like I’m approaching the best version of myself, and the lady folk can see that.
[–]dametime223 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you for the response man, it was very eye-opening
[–]20ftScarf 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You’re so welcome. I just thought of something I forgot to mention. It helped me to focus on tangible goals that were short enough term to get excited about.
Becoming attractive or getting laid or whatever seemed so complicated and far off that it felt hopeless to try.
But you bite of tiny pieces, and start to build momentum. Like the teeth thing. It was something I knew how to fix and could see progress on pretty quickly.
Then maybe learn a new skill, like a couple sexy phrases in French, or how to cook a new dish, and that feel like a big win.
Then read a book that inspires you, and that feel like a win.
Suddenly you’re a budding chef with brighter teeth who reads, and that’s a lot of progress in just a week.
Totally random examples, but I think you get it. Forget the big picture if you need to and focus on small wins.
That’ll get you used to winning. A shocking amount of the mechanics of the universe just comes down to rhythm and momentum.
You got this!
[–]jsbach123 47 points48 points49 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
If a guy is self-centered and cares only to improve himself, he gives off a non needy vibe. It's ironic that the less you care about women, the more they find you attractive.
Furthermore, if you're obsessed with doing your own thing, women find that ambition to be attractive.
[–]Waving 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It's not that they care any less about women, it's that they're self-sufficient, and that makes perfect sense. The thinking you're describing here leads to embitterment, and can lead to a dangerously sad life, speaking from personal experience. It's not that you should be "self-centered" and "obsessed with doing your own thing," it's that you need to bring something to the table, be comfortable and confident in yourself, and be okay walking away.
Don't mean to sound as harsh as this does, just offering a clarifying perspective. Good luck out there my guy.
Edit: but also, yes, sociopaths are hot or whatever.
[–]20ftScarf 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This adds some much needed nuance. Yes, people who are damaged themselves often gravitate to sociopaths. But everyone, especially healthy people, find it attractive when someone has their own shit going on and is self-sufficient (I.e. not needing a woman’s attention to feel whole).
[–]MissPolymath 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Great clarity you made here.
[–]Tomaskraven 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Everything within reason. If you are way too obsessed with your own thing you might lose yourself in it and disregard other people completely. Thats when they'll look for other options. This might apply to anyone really, who wants to be with someone that only has time for themselves.
You've seen it time and time again: "Extremely succesful professional (business man, ceo, doctor, lawyer, etc) who is obssesed with his work and never sees wife/gf and/or kids eventually gets cheated and divorced cause wife felt lonely. Remember that while rare, theres still a ton of cool, attractive and succesful people out there that might offer something "better".
[–]Lonely_Man22 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You miss leg day?
[–]20ftScarf 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Sometimes, but it writes me letters.
Or:
Every day’s leg day when you’re a big ol fat guy.
But in all seriousness, yes. Push-ups made my arms neck and face look better almost instantly. It took a while to work up to 500 a day, but by the time I was there I looked great from the tits up. Push-up to help the core too, and since I wasn’t lifting weights, I didn’t need the leg support really. I did hurt my back lifting a heavy speaker that easy for my shoulders and arms though.
[–]mrpodo 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Just curious, how many sets of push-ups do you typically do a day?
[–]20ftScarf 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Started with 2 or 3 at a time because it was all I could do. I’d do about a dozen sets, roughly one an hour throughout the day, until I got up to 5 at a time, then 10.
Settled on 25 per set for a good while. I’d do groups of 4 sets as often I could muster. Eventually 5 times a day.
Then for the first few sets of the day I’d just do as many as I could, usually 50ish, then make up the rest of the 500 with sets of 25.
These days I do some push-ups, especially if I’m traveling, but mostly I do pull ups. They work a similar group of muscles, but they’re way harder, so it’s doesn’t take as much time out of your day to get them in. I get bored doing push-ups after 30 or so, and that doesn’t do much. But I can barely do 10-15 proper pull-ups before my form gets shitty. So in a couple minutes I can get a lot of work done.
I do as many as I can twice in the morning, with a few minute break in between, then I do another set in the evening, of varying intensity depending on how active I am throughout the day.
I also lift adjustable weights. I keep them just heavy enough that I can only do a rep or two. I do that a few times a week, not even every day.
I hate working out lol. But I love being in good shape.
[–]EthicalSeduction 31 points32 points33 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes it works but it's not necessarily easy. Your perspective needs to adjust to where you view things differently. Don't over think this and instead try and do things in life that make you happy. When you are enjoying activities and pursuing things you feel are valuable to you, that's when you will relax, feel proud of how you have grown, and suddenly become really attractive because of it. We all want to hang out with really good, smart, talented people who we admire. So focusing on your own growth and happiness changes how you effect those around you.
[–]thedreamkillers 38 points39 points40 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
at the beginning (march 2020, 17 years old, zero experience with women), i only focused on my appearance. it took me around 1.5 years of working out and experimenting with my style etc. to get to a point where i was generally considered attractive. i had my first experiences with the opposite sex at 19 years old.
then i got into my first relationship, but it went to shit really quick since my mental health and self-image were still half-baked and i was overall a rather needy person. after wallowing in self-pity for a bit due to getting dumped, i started working on my mental health and discovering my purpose from within instead of basing my self-worth around women.
and so here we are, right now i'm focusing on educating myself and practing mindfulness, while still meeting new people occasionally so i don't lose my social skills.
[–]johnbugara 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
damn dude, I'm happy you went through that so young. I had a very similar experience and learned the same lessons last year at 30 lol. you sound wise beyond your years
[–]kaitkait18 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
this really reasonates with me. even though i am a woman i am the clingiest one of them all. i’m now trying to find value within myself and not in my boyfriend who has his own life. it takes time and time. i’m only beginning my life tbh and i can’t wait to be at the point where i have my own things to be happy about. thank you.
[–]atomant88 52 points53 points54 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
yep. lost 40lbs, bought a new wardrobe, started a new career, wrote 3 novels. invested a lot more in my social group, and stopped trying to look for a serious relationship.
i never had trouble with dating before (been doing pickup on and off for 12 years). but all of this recent self-work has really made game so much easier.
in a way its kinda depressing because i was always a big body positivity advocate. didnt think my appearance really mattered that much, especially in regards to weight. but unfortunately it does. it makes a big difference. people are shallow. cant deny it now
you still need game. social skills. but being lean does make it all a lot easier (and im not even really 'lean' yet im just less fat lol)
also the 'abundance mindset' and being very clear about not pursuing serious dating has surprisingly helped me get laid a lot too and helped me get some FWBs. women feel more comfy around you when youre straight up and when its a low pressure situation. (and of course also when youre respectful, and sensual, but i already had those areas covered )
[–]ftdrain 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Looks have a really heavy weight, I have a lot of issues to work through in regards to finance, mental health, social skills, game and without diving too much into the whys, I basically used the gym as an escape route and my body is basically in the top 1% now, couple this with an above avg face (around a 7 more or less, def not Chad) and looks alone made me have more women than I can handle on a weekly basis.
[–]1Dragon_ 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Start mewing and chewing
[–]Codename-Misfit 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I concur. This works like a charm. People are shallow but to a certain degree, aren't we all? 🤷🏽♂️
[–]ODOKADOI 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Any advice on making it more apparent and being more direct with what you want, especially with women who you may not have met initially with the idea of dating or anything else? That seems to be my biggest problem along with putting myself out there, and it’s really bothering me even after making such huge improvements in the past few month s
[–]atomant88 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It can really depend on the relationship and your goals.
I have found that if women are really comfortable around you and see that you're respectful and sensual then it's not very hard to cross things into FWB territory. It's been, at times, shockingly easy for me. But it depends on the person.
If FWB is your goal dont be afraid to humble brag about how your ex only kept you around for the sex, and that's why she kept begging to come back every few months (or similar anecdote) .
And dont be afraid to talk about sex and talk yourself up, or turn them on verbally .
But they also have to be comfy with you and know you're not gonna be judgemental about it if they hook up with you. And they wont want you falling for then either
That's been my experience anyways
[–]Nimsdagod 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is the greatest thing any man could ever do for himself. I went from a kissless awkward
skinny fat virgin square fuck to a giga chad if I'm being honest. Basically you adapt
monk/batman mode for 2-3 years and reinvent yourself. It helps if you can also move to a new
location. It was college for me. Get in the gym, get on youtube, get on reddit. Focus on your
strength, physique, mindset. Adapt a decades mentality. It'll be 10 years for me soon. This
post got me nostalgic. Even though I once did not like myself very much I am so thankful to
that little kid who decided to make a change and believe in himself despite what any of his
friends or family might have said to him. Forever mirin' Zyzz.
[–]ozzzy83 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Ofc that it does work. Guys who are just focused on getting girls but lack their purpose in life, will be focused on one specific girl, and rarely will approach, thus giving so much significance to any girl, will live in a scarcity mindset, appear desperate, and face so many rejections cause girls can sense that a guy doesn't have his shit together, doesn't have options, so she doesn't want to do him a favor by being with him, because that is not how it works.
On the other hand, when you work on your purpose first, and on your skills, plus have an abundance mindset, it shows through your behavior and body language, which girls find attractive, cause you have options, so they feel lucky when you choose them, which is what they want anyway.
[–]7Birdies 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yup. Started reading some books and working with a therapist to find a sense of purpose and self-reliance.
[–]5_7pickup 34 points35 points36 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
Majority of guys who follow that advice will still end up struggling with women. Most men have a marketing problem, not a product problem.
[–]generaltso81 40 points41 points42 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Marketing is a lot easier when you believe you've got a great product.
[–]cronasminate 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It's not a marketing problem since dudes already market themselves too much during dates and on apps. It's a leads acquisition and sales cycle problem. Men don't know how to properly push the leads along their sales funnel and most pursue dead leads.
[–]5_7pickup 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Its not marketing if theyre on a date already.
Dating apps are marketing but majority of men do a shit job with their OLD profiles.
Sure most men probably dont know how to close a sale either but thats a different problem. Closing the sale is what this sub is really about.
[–]S3542U 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I suck at marketing and all that mumbojumbo. I had to google this shit up. I think you're into something.
It all boils down to what we've always been doing since beginningless times: we all want something from things or from people and we do whatever we can to get those things.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Its not a sales problem if you cant attract customers in the first place. You can have a perfect product and no one could want to buy it.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wdym?
[–]Velociraptor2018 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You can have the greatest product in the world but if you’re a bad salesman no one’s gonna buy it. On the contrary a great salesman doesn’t even need a good product to get people to buy. Your asking someone to spend their valuable time with you
[–][deleted] 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Rockembopper 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
As someone who works in marketing, I take this to mean: most guys are great dudes, just the way they present or advocate for themselves isn’t great.
Your content is good. Just your book-cover needs work.
[–]ODOKADOI 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Any advice on doing that? I’m taking great care of my looks and making sure I look above average at the very least. My problem is just based on not putting myself out there along with lack of experience especially with escalating
[–]Rockembopper 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That’s the thing, I guess it’s less book cover and more first impression.
For me, taking improv classes helped a lot. It can be cheesy, but it forces you to get out there, fail, be ok feeling ridiculous, and helps show you ways to keep conversations naturally flowing. Plus, it’s a good way to meet people and then have the excuse to be like “hey all, we’re grabbing drinks after.” to then grow your natural social circle.
[–]ODOKADOI 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You answered your own question. Your problem is that you dont put yourself out there.
[–]nordik1 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
not putting myself out there
You're asking how to solve a social problem without being social
Come up with a plan to put yourself out there 10x more than you ever have this month and evaluate what happens at the end of 30 days. If you really commit to it I think it will blow your mind what you can achieve
[–]nordik1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most men have a marketing problem, not a product problem.
Based on what? A lot of guys are in terrible shape, dress sloppily, have emotional control issues, act immature for their age, don't have any bigger picture goals or hobbies etc. There is a LOT of product problems going on right now
[–]JLifts780 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s easier to market a good product
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Any idea on how to increase my marketing? I truly believe that I am a complete package and I put myself out there the best I can do. What else is there?
[–]5_7pickup 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How are you putting yourself out there? How are you meeting new women?
[–]BravoPUA 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Yes.
Leveling up in life, confidence, social skills, etc is the way.
Women don’t fantasize about being with a goofy, awkward, weirdo, with no confidence.
[–]MeleeMalayMehLei 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
goofy, awkward, weirdo
Ahhh shiiet xD
[–]BravoPUA 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The cool thing is that you can improve in those areas. It’s really hard for women to improve their looks dramatically, unless they’re really overweight.
[–]MeleeMalayMehLei 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Haha it's just how I see myself.
The same traits easily get interpreted as funny, dgaf vibe, "cool"
And I think there are loads of avenues for people to improve appearance. Hair, makeup, exercise, nutrition, skin care, style, clothes... I know a girl who is unrecognizable without makeup and with it on, guys are on her like flies on...
[–]S3542U 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Just to point something out for some readers: the goofy, awkward, weirdo thing isn't the problem.
The problem is the lack of confidence.
You can be whatever as long as you're confident and believe in yourself and in your skills, whatever they are. There's something for everyone; you just need to put yourself out there, learn from trial and error, and find the right people.
[–]BravoPUA 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What I wrote, and “confidence” are mutually exclusive.
[–]jsbach123 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The guys who invested himself and didn't see improvement with the ladies are usually investing in himself because of women. That's the wrong approach.
For example, "I'm starting a band so I can get girls". Or "I'm studying for a master's degree so I can get girls". Then they get upset when focusing on self improvement didn't produce results.
You can't invest in yourself for the purpose of women. It has to truly be about yourself and what you're interested in. Women know when you're desperate. They find you most attractive when do you don't give a shit about dating.
[–]Erbium-Oxide 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I started playing guitar to get girls. I was 9. Don’t regret it.
What if you invest in yourself because you want to improve yourself. I did that for 4 years and while I did ask girls out, i didnt focus on dating.
I still have not had any success.
[–]tuna_cowbell 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I only had my first real, emotionally intimate relationship in 2020-21. I was definitely using it, as proof to myself that I was worthy and capable of feeling love(d), and I think he did too. After it ended in a disastrous spectacular display of angst, and all my beliefs of what love means and how it works were destroyed, I realized how unhealthy it was to rely on an external force—and a singular person, no less!—to constantly prove my romantic worth, and to have someone else rely on me for the same. I have to be the most important person to me, and you have to be the most important person to you—that’s my belief.
For a while, a lot of my desire for independence and self-prioritization was entwined with a fear of being vulnerable again leading to getting hurt again. And honestly that’s still an issue, but I’m working on it. Overall, though, I think I’m learning a healthier mindset for relationships and a better quality of living in general.
Like I said, I didn’t/don’t have much dating experience. I know what it’s like to have a busy personal life involving people and projects other than a relationship/SO. So I just kept on doing that. For me, the new part of “investing in myself” was not pursuing practical/technical skills. It was about developing a new perspective around self-esteem and self care.
So I made, and am making, an emotional investment, trying to love myself the way ai originally needed my boyfriend to love me. I don’t mean romantically, but on a platonic level, I guess. I started looking at myself like my own friend. Doing nice things for myself, reflecting on things I like about myself beyond just my achievements and talents, and appreciating myself for being the conduit through which I experience the world. Sometimes I buy myself food and go to a nice place outside and eat, and I tell myself I’m taking myself on a date, idk. Allie Brosh (idk spelling, but she’s the Hyperbole and a Half lady) has a really good comic/essay in one of her books about it. Idk if it’s online but I really wish it was so I could share it with people.
I’m still really like receiving validation from others. I still struggle a bit with perceiving being in a relationship/receiving affection as something I need to prove my worth. But it’s something I can recognize and I know it’s not healthy or realistic. And I generally feel calmer and happier, I think. I haven’t had a relationship since then, yet, because of other circumstances and because becoming less needy/desperate meant that I wasn’t aching to find someone new to validate me romantically. So altogether it’s not a concluded success story, but I feel I’m in a better place.
Idk if this is what you were asking about, exactly. But the post made me think about my history and I wanted to think about it since it’s been a while since I last really thought it through. Thanks for giving me the prompt and the space to do a bit of reflecting.
[–]nordik1 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes and it's paid the most dividends out of anything. When your value increases, you operate with a different sense of self which people around you feel, and if you combine it with being social frequently, you start to realize how easy it can be to stand out above the crowd because almost no one else is doing the work.
[–]tommybruh 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Not really, I am always working on myself and my goals. Going to the gym is something that I did before, during and after a relationship, so that o only apply to people that never worked out.
Putting more time on my work and projects?, same, always prioritized them..
Improving my style? Same..
Idk man I guess you have to be focused and don’t chase, but that’s a lie, if you don’t care things won’t come.
What I see is, change your habits, speak with more people and eventually things will change.
But those tips like go to the gym, work on yourself, etc, are only valid if you never did it. But if you are already doing it? .. that’s the problem, you have to find other solutions
[–]Lighthero34 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If you got to the gym but don't try, then you aren't gonna get results.
Same with style, if things haven't improved yet you haven't actually improved your style.
The thing is "not caring" doesn't mean "don't try". It just means that you can't come across as needy. You can show interest without caring too much.
If you are already doing these things but no results, you need to do them more. Also try talking about them with the people you are flirting with, don't be afraid to brag.
[–]karaposu 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
it is depressing to realize you did all what is suggested and not much changed.
[–]tommybruh 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yep.. is food for though Is hard to carry it in your head 😞
[–]karaposu -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
i cant seem to find the answer. There must be sth we are missing. nothing in this world is magic.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Absolutely!! The more I care about myself and what makes me happy, the more I realize there’s nothing a woman has to offer me except sex. So, that sex better better be so good I see God.
[–]mjornir 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’m in the process of it but it’s working. I find myself more at peace when not pursuing someone. The key is to accept things as they are and do things that genuinely bring you joy without the need for anyone else to be present.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yup. Got fucked over by a few different women in college, then finally ended up in a good relationship. Only, I then realized relationships aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. Broke up after a few months, and haven’t really cared much about dating since. My time is too limited to be spent on things that I don’t find personally meaningful, so caring at all about what women (or most people) isn’t on my to-do list. Did it work? For me, yes, because I find my current situation acceptable and manageable. For someone trying to be less needy in the hopes of getting into a relationship, it might be less than ideal.
[–]Fluffy_Risk9955 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women should invest in themselves. They are themselves their own most valuable asset. Men on the other hand should invest in their mindset, skills, social connections of value and the ability to get results.
[–][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]jsbach123 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You've totally missed the point of this thread.
Investing in yourself means to better yourself without women being the motive. So of course you don't use these lame dating coaches who's sole motive is about women.
[–]bhutams 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So what’s your alternate take?
[–]Sunlitstream264 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Currently working on it now, expanded my hobbies and hit the gym everyday, feels great and have made a few new friends. No women yet but they aren’t my priority
[–]cormacru999 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't really follow every term in the selection guru nonsense advice, most of it is misleading men for profit, so I'm not sure what invest in yourself might mean, though I can make an educated guess. Making your body healthy is great, but the biggest issues men have today is that they often have no real friendships, no good family relationships, no real goals, no real hobbies, & do things that make them feel good/better but those things can't usually become a more meaningful thing.
Men are deeply fragile, so they struggle to foster better friendships, better jobs, new communities, except the usual like drinking, etc. They spend so much time & energy trying to score a romantic partner, which is scary & hard & they follow terrible advice from gurus & women don't respond well to those things. They are deeply resistant to listening to women's experiences & learning form them, & many eventually get angry at the "unfairness" of it & either dwell in that or get dangerous. And when they do eventually meet a willing woman, that woman becomes their everything, their only friend, their therapist, their parent, their role model, etc, but that often triggers negative feelings that can be fear & jealousy that she'll meet a new, better guy, or fragility that she does things or knows things or has a good job, & at best the woman is just exhausted by it & they split & at worst the man tries to control as much as he can, which sometimes also get abusive & dangerous.
So if you really want to work on yourself, to tackle all the different elements that go into who you are & who you want to be & what you want your life to be like, you should start with therapy. Analyze what you feel & why you feel it & where that comes from. Identify your weakness & strengths, & work on what you'd like to improve or change. The best thing about therapy is its not like any other relationship. You don't need to meet their family, or change favors or even give a shit about their personal life. You hire them to help you, to care about you, that's the whole job.
Remember that therapists are human & therefore fallible, so you can meet a bad one, or you can meet a great one who doesn't know much about what you need in particular & its absolutely ok to change from one to another if you need to, just try to be mindful that its a legitimate problem & not that you're uncomfortable with doing the work.
Honestly no....
a bit of backstory. I was that awkward loner in high school and for the first year of college. at 19 I decided I needed to change. I moved schools, changed degrees, and did the whole investing in yourself thing. I made new friends, tried new things, fell in love with new hobbies, travelled extensively, and focused really hard on school. I even managed to keep a strong social life through covid until I graduated a year ago.
Now at 24 I feel that my life has peaked. All my hard work has paid off. I am in the best shape of my life. Have a few extremely close friends and can get along with anyone. I have a good job and a steady life. I have made my self "the complete package".
All this time, I didnt really worry about dating. I went out to meet people and asked people on dates but I didnt set getting a date as my goal. But over the last year I have started to pay for dating apps, ask friends to set me up, and have made dating more of a priority. Especially since I have a lot to offer.
Now over the last year I have an internal clock that is ticking. Thats young you say! While true, I am 24, I have never been on a date, I have never kissed, and I have only hugged a girl once (Im pretty sure it was a pity hug). I have faced a life of constant romantic rejection.
I have done everything someone reasonably can do and am still not an option.
Thats my story, thanks for showing up to my ted talk.
[–]Confidenceisbetter 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Kind of i guess. When i was younger i was kind of needy, got upset easily when i wouldn’t get enough attention from a guy, such as when he wouldn’t reply fast enough and then i would get insecure, i would bring up my issues to make him pity me, etc. Kind of pick me girl behaviour all because i was not confident in myself. Worked on my confidence and now i’m not like that at all anymore.
[–]Lighthero34 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Username checks out.
Neediness is seen as a lot more excusable in women however, as excessive signs of interest make guys more likely to pursue you.
[–]MentalCelOmega -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Tried investing in myself. It didn't work. You can't improve genetics and fate.
[–]TH3BUDDHA 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Did it work?
It ALWAYS works because you invested in yourself and became a better person. That's the beauty of it. If you're improving with the motive of making women like you, it's still needy behavior.
[–]HecarimAB 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If you “try to do it” then it doesn’t work because you are doing it with the intention to bring in more girls and therefor are not self reliant. Getting to a place where you are a happy person independently will get you more girls but only if you genuinely get there
[–]Littlewing1307 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I invested a few thousand dollars into an emotional healing and dating program, books and therapy. Best money I ever spent! I'm more on the secure attachment side now and my codependency issues are in the back ground. It's been so freeing.
[–]methmonkeysyrup 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here it is.
The real question is, at this point, is online even as a supplement worth anything? It is a serious question. I think in other countries with a niche crowd (family oriented, feminine, your look or type, etc.) it could be. I think mostly now, though, we know the goods are all out in the "real world" and pretty much assign a value via some sort of social circle.
Even from its onset, online was always a short term prospect. The problem is that beyond 2014, you couldn't really get good looking girls on apps anymore --- certainly any that would actually meet up.
[–]logicallyillogical 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol does improving yourself mentally and physically help? No, being a fat lazy asshole gets you all the chicks!
[–]whale_sports 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
For me? Was just putting myself out there online...getting SEVERAL matches, and chatting with them. Eventually, narrow it down to 3, 4, or 5 women that I think we'd chill well together.
How did you get that first match? Thats where I am having sruggles.
[–]whale_sports 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You don't want to know...but, of course...im older than you, and I just dont give a damn.
You can message me..and I'll tell you.
And...also first match just turned into like 20 within 10 hours...
[–]DaxMan12 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes. Honestly I was already physically pretty close (was already in shape and attractive.. that feels weird to say but that’s what I get told) but my mental game was weak. I come from a household we’re there wasn’t the healthiest support system. I always lacked confidence and was super hard on myself, for no good reason. Models was a game changer. Still the most important book I’ve ever read I think. I knew some of the ideas in the book intuitively, but never heard articulated before. It cleared up a lot of my frustrations and I started crushing self-help books, one after another to finally get my head straight. Then I started approaching girls and to my absolute shock and delight, never had one bad experience. One night I gave my number out to 4 girls and they unfortunately all got back to me hahaha. I had 4 dates that week! I was burnt out.
Right now I just started dating someone who I am completely falling for and it’s the best feeling ever. I never really thought I would be truely happy but I put the work in and I’m happier then I’ve ever been.
Every single person I know who only pursued the chasing women thing without improving themselves eventually imploded and ended up broke and depressed. A close friend was murdered by the psycho woman he married. Be careful.
[–]TANKER_06 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I work an 8-8 job, 6 out of 7 days. That said, you can imagine how I value my free time. In a sense, I just don't have the luxury of time to be needy! I don't earn a lot. In fact, I'm an average or even below average earner. Thus, I also have to be strategic with my finances and I literally can't afford to "simp" for anyone.
So with the typical day ending at 8, by the time I'm back home and freshened up, it's 9, 9.30. Yes, there are plenty of nightlife options, but most of the days I'm just at home. Working out. Play VR games that work me out. Clean my apartment. Watch YouTube for topics relating to either work or my hobbies. Planning my future.
When I do go out though, I am generally mentally exhausted and all I want is to relax, have fun and have social interaction with anyone that isn't my colleagues. Sometimes some of those interactions happen to be women, and sometimes, I have bedtime fun with some of those women.
So the biggest tip? Find a terrible job that makes you work from 8-8 every day to the point you are so mentally exhausted you can't help but be a selfish prick.
Just a joke, if someone actually took the last paragraph seriously.
Yes look at my recent post on here
P
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