Is chivalry dead and did Woman kill it?

SylvestorTalone · 2022-05-06T02:59:49+00:00

Chivalry fell out of favour around the 16th century, along with heavy cavalry.

gate18 · 2022-05-06T00:51:07+00:00

(I'm a man)

This is the first time I heard that women killed it, but it sounds logical, if it was for men, it would either still exist or it would have been seen as shit since the beginning

I read somewhere that SS soldiers after work would go to social events and hold doors and chairs for women.

Imagine, your job is to treat human beings as slaves (and kill them) and still society gives you things so you can feel good.

Same with slavery in USA, or segregation, right? A section of society creates a few performative rules that can make you feel good.

There's no door or chair heavy enough that a woman can't handle.

And of course, back then at least, women had to act as though opening a door is a big deal.

There's a story titled Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut where in the name of equality everyone is made equal by restricting them. Fast people would carry weights, everyone had to have hearing equipment to restrict their hearing...

I think that's how our society used to operate for women and how people want it to operate today.

Yes, women are weaker than men.

However, women aren't as weak as WE, MEN, WISH THEY WERE

The biological differences have nothing to do with everyday things. There are plenty of naturally weak men that could be stabbed, beaten, or raped and they aren't, somehow we expect them to be fine, but women are "hunted" by us men. And, because men hunt women, women need men to protect them from other men

It's almost as if to say "either let me be chivalrous, or I'll harm you, "you can't have it both ways"!"

(back then) "we are going to shame you if you don't act like a woman". Exactly like Vonnegut's story, because if women act "like women" because of their biological restrictions then why are they able to act differently?

It has nothing to do with being nice.

I, a man, have had plenty of men hold doors for me. You, a man, have had men hold the door for you as well.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-05-05T23:08:07+00:00

Dunno. But if men want to be successful in dating today they shouldn't be chivalrous. Be assertive, spontaneous, take the lead, make playful banter ect... if the first thing a girl has to say about you after you hang out is that you're chivalrous or "such a nice guy" then you dun goofed.

You should be nice in the sense that you're respectful and have basic human decency, i.e. stuff like respecting her boundaries physically and walking her to her car/apartment at night to make sure she is safe. But a girl that you spent the entire date playfully teasing/making fun of will like you a hell of a whole lot more than a chivalrous dashing knight that lays down their coat for a girl to walk over puddles and complimented them incessantly.

Reserve chivalry for the very, very rare woman worth spending the rest of your life and raising a family with.

Standard-Inflation10 · 2022-05-06T00:44:03+00:00

Hot+chivalrous= gentleman

Average+chivalrous= r/niceguys

kaiden08 · 2022-05-05T23:32:48+00:00

Romance itself was a patriarchal male invention.

In the past men wanted to impute innocence and a sort of piety onto women especially higher class women. As the world was more in touch with life and death back then the society naturally had a certain amount of social control that was able to influence culture and life in this direction.

Now with the wheels off the romantic idea of women has fallen and we get to see them in all their glory:

Puking on the side of the road outside the bar and wearing a butt plug on onlyfans.

Shredddz · 2022-05-06T10:33:22+00:00

chivalry is dead, but simping is common. no woman today will get chivalrous treatment from men with a backbone because they know women do not deserve it.

FaisalAli_91 · 2022-05-06T02:01:39+00:00

I think "chivalry" just got replaced with "be a good person".

Chivalry sounds like such an old-timey word now. It's heavy with meaning and history.

It's hard to say what the best way to behave and talk and act is. I don't think it's dead - I think we're still figuring out the best way to get along as a society.

LittleDragonMaiden · 2022-05-06T00:22:34+00:00

I think chivalry still exists, I always have people open the door for men and women for example. I do think street harassment is more accepted than it used to be. My grandfather commented on the behavior of men in the streets of Seattle and said in his hometown those kind of men would be slapped around a bit to knock out that behavior. So it really depends on where you are. In my town, men are very nice and gentleman like but in big cities they seem like ravenous lions that survived no meat may.

ClaraBow01 · 2022-05-06T05:20:03+00:00

It does exist. There are plenty of respectful and kind men whose acts of kindness still hold a special place in my heart even years after it happened. Chivalry can sometimes come off as patronizing if done in bad faith, but I think it is generally a good thing. Most of us women really do appreciate it and those women who don’t might have some unresolved issues.

kittenated · 2022-05-06T06:32:28+00:00

It’s often said that chivalry is dead and that Woman are responsible.

I've never heard that phrase in my life.

My boyfriend is thoughtful and respectful though, and I've never had any issue meeting men who are kind, so I definitely don't think it is "dead".

I-atemytwin · 2022-05-06T00:51:50+00:00

Modern chilvary to me generally is sweet, respectful behaviour.

I'm a woman, I wouldn't say chivalry is dead, men can behave courteously towards women they like, like holding doors open, offering to carry heavy things etc.

I would say. We are more on level playing fields, when it comes to behaviour we expect from one another now though. Men also like small gestures & these gestures should be given them. Chilvary is no longer very gendered.

I think if you think of men throughout history, the majority of modern men are the best men when it comes to treatment of women,

Most modern men view women as people and equals rather than belongings and it means that modern chilvary is just superior.

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-05-05T22:48:01+00:00

Yes and I'm okay with that.

AbbreviationsHot1200 · 2022-05-06T03:57:53+00:00

Why in the hell is this a question for women?

MEN decide when to be chivalrous and when not to be.

I swear some of yall dudes are so damn thirsty to talk to human females it makes you come up with dumb ass questions.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2022-05-05T23:56:39+00:00

It should be.

Chivalry was all about knights on horses (hopefully) not murdering and raping you in a ditch

What should replace it is generic politeness and social etiquette. Don't be a dick. Be nice to people. If someone is infirm or less physical able than you at the moment, give them your seat. When someone has both earphones on don't talk to them unless necessary. Open doors for whoever is behind you regardless of gender. Don't hurt people.

It honestly shouldn't be that hard.

badgersonice · 2022-05-06T00:31:08+00:00

You know it’s funny… it’s seems like it’s often men who complain that they don’t get praised anymore for doing trivial gestures like opening the car door or pulling out seats…. Almost like the real beneficiaries of chivalry was men getting to feel good about themselves for doing easy things, rather than the actual benefits women get.

gofigure62 · 2022-05-06T00:24:12+00:00

Old school chivalry was considered offensive because the behavior was rooted in the belief of women being incapable of doing mudane tasks due to their stupidity, fragility, and weakness. It was a public display of announcing a woman as inferior.

In Modern day, historical chivalrous behaviors such as holding the door open, is general politeness that is reserved for EVERYONE, not just for women.

As with all things, not all women were or are against chivalry. As it was also an indication of wealth where women DIDN'T have to do mundane things because it was afforded to them through the service of others.

People often ignore the historical and class elements in regards to chivalry.

Some people are inherently more generous than others. I like and prefer men that kind and cooperative to EVERYONE. I wouldn't want a man doing overexaggerated displays of kindness SIMPLY Because I'm a womans, especially if he didn't know me. I don't like people who pretend to be nice or kindhearted.

There's a difference between a man who holds the door open for everyone, and anticipates the needs of other people because he's naturally thoughtful, vs. A man whose only nice to someone because they're a woman.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-05-05T22:55:37+00:00

Chivalry isn't dead. It has been redefined into things that are actually helpful and desirable and is able to be practiced by anyone. Fundamentally, it's about helping those who need and want it. This is a good thing.

InfamousBake1859 · 2022-05-05T22:53:13+00:00

Chivalry is different in modern day than before. It’s not dead. Modern chivalry still exists in the more desirable men.

Initial_Chemical7121 · 2022-05-05T23:35:07+00:00

Chivalry isn’t dead, you just have to find the right guy, and be the girl he’s looking for to get it.

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thetruthishere_ · 2022-05-06T00:36:40+00:00

Chivalry is not dead in my generation. Im a gen x.

Hungry-Adagio2152 · 2022-05-06T00:50:28+00:00

Chivalry as we knew it in the past is absolutely dead in this modern era of dating.

Politeness and etiquette absolutely still exist, but are something else entirely.

bluestjuice · 2022-05-06T01:01:56+00:00

Chivalry has to do with a code of virtue to constrain highly-honed killing machines (aka: knights) from exercising those skills wherever they found it advantageous. Initially it involved a reciprocal relationship of responsibility from a social superior to the knight, and in later centuries included further elements introduced from Marie de France’s courts of love such as courtesy and gentility, helping the weak and those in need, etc.

Most of that isn’t what people are talking about when they proclaim ‘chivalry is dead!’ — that has more to do usually with some mythical version of how social deportment and gracious relations between genders supposedly existed at a previous point in the last 100 years.

I think there is a modern version of politesse and courtesy that can be aspired to, and it differs from some of the things that people are thinking of when they make this statement, but no, I don’t think courteous behavior is dead, and I don’t think anyone in particular is responsible for overall cultural shifts over time.

EulenWatcher · 2022-05-06T04:00:42+00:00

Chivalry in its original meaning isn't there anymore and it's a good thing, because it was tied to women being seen inherently inferior to men.

What we have now is indifferent politeness we offer to strangers mixed with kindness from time to time. I'm totally okay with it and I think it's better than what we used to have. It's far less tied to one's gender and both men and women can and do help each other when they're in need for it. A woman will hold a door for you, you'll give your seat to a pregnant woman, she will help an elderly to carry their bags etc.

And if we talk about chivalry as about courting and romance, these things still exist although they've changed quite a bit. Partners are still expected to treat each other well and do favors for each other here and there.

KokoNoir · 2022-05-06T07:58:29+00:00

Chivalry as a standard is dead due to the recent wave of feminism. Guys who genuinely like acting that way (or are from a more traditional culture) still seem to go for women who enjoy receiving it.

MissLute · 2022-05-06T09:24:47+00:00

i've opened doors for men before but they would gesture me to go first and i'd gesture back and we'd be standing there at an impasse so nowadays i heck it and open doors only for myself

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-05-06T14:36:14+00:00

To my knowledge we don't have knights in the US.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2022-05-06T16:24:24+00:00

If women appreciated chivalry and selected for it, which means that it helped men to get laid, then chivalry would still be alive. Turns out that being chivalrous means jack shit nowadays, so it makes sense chivalry died.

Snowbattt · 2022-05-07T00:21:48+00:00

I used to be chivalrous, but it kinda died out for me too because of two reasons:

- Many women just take it for granted and I got sick of it. Not to mention women want equality, well then you got it.

- Many women think I'm trying to hit on them, even though I'm not.

So ehh, I'm still chivalrous with old people because they seem to still appreciate it. But other than them, fuck it. I give women the same treatment as men on that part.

frenchiveruti · 2022-05-07T17:25:20+00:00

Being chivalrous nowadays will put you right on track to friendzone and "let me tell you about this guy I'm fucking" zone.

LaserFace778 · 2022-05-08T14:21:56+00:00

I see a lot of guys answering so I’ll just go ahead. Yes, women killed chivalry on purpose because it’s infantilizing and awful.

Putting women on a pedestal is objectification. No one likes it.

flamingoinghome · 2022-05-06T08:41:46+00:00

Chivalry was always a class thing. It still is, and still kind of exists.

The word "chivalry" comes from "chevalier," the French for knight. I've read material from the Middle Ages about what a knight was expected to do as part of his chivalric oath, and while he had a duty to physically defend peasants (men and women) who were bound to his liege's land, he had no obligation to treat women outside the nobility with courtesy or respect, and often really really didn't, with no sense of having violated chivalry.

Class-mixing on a broad scale put an end to a lot of this nonsense, but...if you've ever spent time in socially-UC or adjacent circles, you'll see that many of the men there actually do feel a sense of obligation and responsibility towards women who they perceive as part of their class. I've heard certain guys tell their buddies off for being crass, not because the behavior is wrong, but because "she's a nice girl."

The phrase "nice girl" means so many different things.

Title	Is chivalry dead and did Woman kill it?
Author	Visible-Doughnut-782
Upvotes	15
Comments	109
Date	May 5, 2022 10:38 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/uj98ot/is_chivalry_dead_and_did_woman_kill_it/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-chivalry-dead-and-did-woman-kill-it.1115377 https://theredarchive.com/post/1115377

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