please don't downvote me, just genuinely curious! i just like to learn haha

joncowling · 2022-06-07T00:06:06+00:00

I cannot speak for everyone here, but personally I believe in equality of opportunity. Women and men are different, but still equal. As such, both should have the same options and it should be accepted that people will make different choices, and that we shouldn’t point fingers of blame if the choices we make don’t end up being as fruitful as ones made by members of the opposite sex.

I do not agree with equality of outcome. I don’t believe that there should be equal representation of the sexes in all things, as this simply won’t ever work. I’m all for a person of any gender to climb the corporate ladders and succeed, but not if that success is directly linked to to their gender. The same goes for my own career; I want to progress based on the merit of my achievement, not the dingly-dangles I’ve got.

OldEgalitarianMRA · 2022-06-07T00:11:38+00:00

We all believe in basic human rights. Men a subset of that. As are women. Both deserve basic human rights. We are egalitarian and don't have a victim mentality.

dukesaces · 2022-06-07T00:26:35+00:00

I believe in men and women having equal rights and for both genders to have equality of opportunity but not of outcome. If both genders have the same opportunities and have no real barriers to success then the outcome should be decided on individual merit, even if this were to result in a heavily skewed gender ratio for the field in question.

I also believe that we live In a society which claims to favour equality but actually pushes for female superiority, not only giving women all the same rights as men (as they should do) but giving women superior rights to men and allowing them to retain all their past privileges. Male problems such as the domestic abuse of men (who make up 50% of the victims of DV), the anti male stance of family courts (the mother is favoured during custody battles, unproven and unfounded allegations of abuse are enough to deny a man custody and men are disproportionately affected by alimony and child support requirements), the fact that men make up the majority of suicide victims and homeless people, the fact that there's many female only scholarships and 0 male only scholarships, despite women making up 60% of college graduates, the fact that most countries do not criminalize male rape and it's actually joked about, even in hollywood, the fact that men are 3x more likely to be victims of violent crime are women, that men make up 99% of sewage workers, coal minors etc and less than 20% of nurses and teachers but society, the government and the media only push for 50-50 representation in white collar jobs, the fact that men die 10 years earlier than women but can only retire and claim pension 5 years after women, the fact that men are blamed for absolutely everything that goes wrong with women but it's never the other way around and so on are completely ignored by both society and the so called 'champions of equality'

Thus I believe a men's rights movement is important. Feminists will often scoff at men's rights movements, call these places toxic and full of misogyny and claim that they fight for both genders but I've never seen a feminist fight for a single cause that helps men in the last 200 years of its existence, not a single feminist and not a single battle. Instead they say shit like 'men should be able to show emotions too'. We care more about not dying en masse, not having our kids taken from us, not being forced to fight in wars while women are sent to safety as refugees, not being denied a well deserved promotion on the basis of our gender to fullfill that companies diversity quotas and so on. I don't think it's fair to hate the entire MRA movement because of a few misogynists when we don't hate feminism despite the absolutely insane levels of misandry that are spewed by some very prominent feminist icons.

chibi-kkoi · 2022-06-07T03:09:35+00:00

I’m a woman and I’m here because I believe men specifically get dicked when it comes to reproductive rights and in family court when it comes to accessing their kids. I believe many more men are victims of abuse than speak up about it. I’m also disgusted with the socially accepted misandry that seems to be spreading faster than the omicron.

Fearless-File-3625 · 2022-06-07T01:02:23+00:00

This is your post from 4 days ago

This is very serious. We all know that Johnny bears no ill will towards victims of domestic violence, seeing as he is one himself. HOWEVER, this case sets a disturbing precedent: if someone speaks against domestic abuse with no proof, they can be sued. This case WILL be cited in REAL domestic violence cases, unlike the sham this trial was. Victims are going to be sued and slandered. This is frightening

Edit: trust me im not a heard sympathizer, im simply worried mostly about victims not being taken as seriously after Heards bs claims

Why do you think this will hurt victims of DV?

Almost all people here celebrated his judgement as a big win for male victims of DV. You seem to think only women can be victims because only their credibility is getting hit, for male victims this is the biggest victory in the history.

So why do think only women can be victims of DV ?

Also why do think this trial was a sham? because a male victim of DV got a chance to speak and people listened ?

This is the kind of unadulterated and inhumane misandry this sub is against. Shame on you. Do better.

Asatmaya · 2022-06-07T02:29:29+00:00

what it is that you guys believe

What makes you think all of us believe anything in common? You will find all types, here.

For myself, I believe that both men and women face challenges in our society, but that women receive far more sympathy and support than men do.

My own "wake up" moment came from family court; I have children by two different women, one of whom walked out and left me with our child, the other lied about being on birth control (among other things) in order to get money out of me. I wound up paying an absurd amount of child support (literally more than I made for a while after they hounded me out of my government job) on constant threat of imprisonment, while my ex-wife never paid a dime, and they closed her case because, "She can't be expected to pay child support and maintain a residence," while I lost my house and had to move back in with my parents, only to be told by the court, "That's not our problem."

I was even denied partial custody of my daughter for being "presumptively incapable of caring for a toddler," despite having raised my son alone from the time he was a year old, and this never changed; she turns 18 next month, and my visitation is still limited to 4 weekends per year and a week in the Summer.

Note that this is not "women's" fault; the people who made those laws were mostly men, as was the judge presiding over the case, and the state lawyer who gleefully destroyed my life.

Nor is this to say that women have no problems; I saw my mother bounce off the glass ceiling in multiple careers throughout her life, and I care deeply for my daughter and wish that nothing of the sort ever happens to her.

But...

do you guys think the sexes should be equal, or men over women, ect.

I think that everyone should be treated equitably; not equally, because no one is "equal," not men, not women, not anyone.

"Equal," would be expecting women to make up 50% of auto mechanics and construction workers, when it should be patently obvious that, on average, more men are better able to engage in physically-demanding careers. Many women are simply going to have problems performing those jobs.

"Equitably," means that everyone gets the support and opportunity that befits their abilities and inclinations. Requiring 50% of Physics students to be female has seriously undermined the field in the UK, because 4 times as many men applied, meaning that 30% of the students had lower scores than those who were rejected. It's not that women CAN'T do it, just fewer of them want to. 75% of Biology students are female, but there is no suggestion that there should be a quota to get more men into the field; men are just less interested.

"Equal before the law," absolutely; treated equally in social situations, sure; perfect equality in employment is problematic, at best.

issues men may face

Fewer men are going to college than ever before, and even those who do are finding the job market stacked against them. Boys are falling behind as early as elementary school, for a multitude of reasons. 60% of high school dropouts are male.

Healthcare in general, and mental health in particular, is a problem; women live 5 years longer on average than men do, up from 2 years longer 100 years ago, and women's health issues get vastly more funding than men's health issues. 80% of suicides are men, but almost all suicide prevention programs focus on women.

70% of the victims of violent crime are men, as are 93% of on-the-job deaths and 99% of combat deaths. The overwhelming majority of the homeless are men. Men get 60% longer prison sentences than women for the same crime with the same record, even for non-violent crimes, and since prison rape is largely ignored, almost no one knows that it is 4 times as common as rape outside of prison... and 90% of those victims are men.

I'm unaware of them

And that just says it all, doesn't it?

It's not even your fault; you have been told all your life that you are the victim. Our entire society is geared around protecting and providing for you, while encouraging you to feel entitled to even more.

But who built your house? And who will come to rescue you if it catches on fire? Who keeps your car running? Who will come to help you if you have a wreck? Who made your stove and refrigerator? Who keeps the electricity going to keep them on? Who drives the trucks to deliver the food and products you use? Who made the roads and bridges and tunnels and cars and trucks and pretty much everything?

You women are beautiful creatures who enthrall us with your charm, and most of us are happy to provide, to feel useful and productive... but it gets really hard to feel appreciated when all we get is scorn and antipathy from the very people that we are literally dying for.

So, yes, we would like your help, but more than that, we would like some gratitude.

Bulky-Corgi9716 · 2022-06-07T00:48:54+00:00

To answer your question, I think that gender should basically be ignored in pretty much all cases.

But also, no one thinks they are sexist. Who is actually going to say they think men are superior to women?

greyone75 · 2022-06-07T00:15:55+00:00

The fact that you as a woman are unaware of the issues is exactly why this sub exists. You can easily scroll through the posts and read some of the examples others share here and judge for yourself if men are treated fairly in today’s society.

UnfurtletDawn · 2022-06-07T02:08:33+00:00

Yep equal rights. Basically feminism is by definition equality for women. So this is something like equality for men.

For example 10 out of 11 sex based scholarships for women, even though they already make majority of students is not equality and not even equity.

And for example

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/intimatepartnerviolence/men-ipvsvandstalking.html

About 1 in 3 men experienced contact sexual violence, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner during their lifetime.

Nearly 1 in 4 men in the U.S. experienced some form of contact sexual violence in their lifetime.

Then obvious male suicide. Which contrary to popular feminist talking is not by them not seeking help.

https://sites.manchester.ac.uk/ncish/reports/suicide-by-middle-aged-men/

Almost all (91%) middle-aged men had been in contact with at least one frontline service or agency, most often primary care services (82%). Half had been in contact with mental health services, 30% with the justice system.

Btw middle aged men are highest risk group for suicide.

Even among youth it is reported that intervention programs work better for girls than boys.

And it's not purely because they choose more lethal methods. Even when accounted for the same method men are 40% more "successful".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentencing_disparity

Men are the most adversely affected by sentencing disparity being twice as likely to be sentenced to jail after conviction than convicted women and receiving on average 63% longer jail time sentences.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer

Underaged male victims paying child support to their rapist.

But for now because nearly all of these go against feminist narrative they pretty much hate us.

mykoiy · 2022-06-07T03:26:41+00:00

Here are some issues men and boys face:

It is very hard for men to get child custody.
Male genital mutilation is not banned.
Divorce for a man is very expensive.
Men are not considered as victims of domestic violence and cant get the same help and support as a women.
boys are faced harsher punishments in schools and the teachers focus on girls more than boys. That is why you can see a decline of men in collages.
There are not any government bodies which focus on men and boys but there is a National Commission for Women(India), Minister for Women(UK), White House Council on Women and Girls (US).
Homelessness effects men way more than women but still there are less shelters for men than women.
Men receive harsher sentences than women in courts.
During wars men become a war resource and lose control over their own bodies as they are forced to fight.
Paternity fraud.
Men are vulnerable to false accusations. it can destroy a man's life.
They don't have any reproductive rights.
Suicide rate is of men is way higher than women.

Thanks for trying to understand our issues.

TAPriceCTR · 2022-06-07T02:33:40+00:00

most of us believe that equal rights require equal responsibilities and the feminism has increased women's rights far beyond women's responsibilities. I would argue that the rights feminism has secured for women exceed even the responsibilities that men have.

we generally believe feminist leadership (academia and lobby groups) manufacture more lies than richard nixon and are more hypocritical than the Disney villain Frolo.

watch the red pill by cassie jaye. wonderful documentary from an exfeminist.

I would love to say "mission accomplished" and cease to be an MRA. last time I made that as an entire comment, it was the second rated in that r/MRA thread... most feminists are of the mindset "feminism forever".

I consider feminism a secular misanthropic religion.

chasum_ · 2022-06-07T00:54:16+00:00

Hi! Please check out my comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/uglfbn/what_are_the_difficulties_of_being_a_man_in/i71b5xr/ - best in your journey

Fast-Mongoose-4989 · 2022-06-07T02:52:13+00:00

Honestly I want men and boys to not be treated so horrible by society just look at how are government is doing everything to help women and girls but does nothing to help men and boys just look at the male suicide rates and male homeless population the government doesn't care, boys are doing worse then girls in school on top of killing them self but my government could care less.

Basketballjuice · 2022-06-07T03:21:29+00:00

we think we should have equality of respect and opportunity. Women should be paid just as much, and have just as many scholarships as men, and should feel safe when outside.

I feel like men should be able to properly defend himself when accused of atrocities, and though they should DEFINITELY be punished if found guilty, the punishment should be just as if a woman had committed the crime. I also believe that men talking about their feelings to women and other men should be much more normalized.

I believe abortion should be legal and safe, but I also believe that men should be able to have paper abortions (though the paper abortion window would close before the physical abortion window.) This way, nobody is forced to raise or care for a child that they didn't want.

And I believe that nobody should generalize about all men or all women when making statements.

Of course there are some misogynists on this sub, and I disagree with them, and try to call them out when possible.

It's fine to treat different people differently as long as you treat them with the same amount of respect.

treeerty · 2022-06-07T06:37:25+00:00

We need more people like you, happy to see other opinions without flying into a hate filled rage when challenged.

Ferbuggity · 2022-06-07T02:11:41+00:00

I am also a woman, and I post here because I care about the men and boys who suffer in silence from abuse, for whatever of the many reasons they do. And I care that this suffering is not only invisible, but actively downplayed by the toxic element of feminism that truly believes women matter more. I had to bully a government website into including statstics concerning boys who have experienced sexual abuse, while all female demographics were on display... and adult men too, which severely affected the gender ratio and therefore the statistics feminists just love to quote. That made me really angry. It should make anyone who has any care at all for a male child really freakin angry too,

I ignore, or try to given that I have a temper, the flat out bitter misogynists and whiny incels here, which are surprisingly far fewer in number than I expected, and focus on the posts from people who are genuinely concerned for the welfare of men and boys, and who are fighting for actual equality.

Because really, the better care we take of men and boys, the less f'd up men there'll be, and the better the world's gonna be for all of us.

BoredRedhead24 · 2022-06-07T03:39:37+00:00

Well, I would like to see men and women held to the same standard and treated with equal consideration. Often men are demonized or blamed for problems that they did not directly cause. People tend to care less when a man is suffering or deny he is suffering at all. Johnny Depp's case is just the most famous example. There are plenty of men not being taken seriously, their pains met with apathy.

Also, in my experience, feminism tends to teach a narrative that leans into narcissism. I am not saying all feminists are narcissists or denying the points of the movement, but I see a lot of those claiming to follow the movement not holding themselves to the standards they criticize others for not meeting.

Byttercup · 2022-06-07T06:00:44+00:00

I'm a woman and have been lurking on this sub for a while. I support human rights, regardless of gender, and I find the modern feminist movement to be disturbing, if not downright insulting, not just toward men, but also toward women. My biggest peeve is the so called "family" court and criminal injustice system. I've watched male friends get screwed over by these institutions, and it's maddening. It's always bothered me that men are forced to pay child support when the woman doesn't want an abortion. I don't know what a good solution is, but I cannot stand children, so if I was a man, I would be especially incensed. Anyway, there are women out there that support you men. (Yes, there are some misogynistic asshats on here, but this is Reddit. Every sub has its asshats.)

DirtyPartyMan · 2022-06-07T02:48:45+00:00

Women & Men are unique in that they bring 50% of the equation to any challenge.

In the past our economic & social structure depended heavily on Male physicality due to how it was designed and arranged during the Industrial Revolution.

Technology & Automation has significantly reduced much of the physical efforts required for this society to function.

Being marginalized in one’s culture by popular movements that seem to include and depend on the element of excluding men in order to rise above oppression will only build resentment in 50 % of the population. Neither Male or Female toxicity has any place within any movement nor societal structure if true progress For All is to be made.

Most men don’t hate women for their own sake I’ve observed. But many men Do feel marginalized by them.

Too often the phrase “If the shoe were on the other foot” needing to be applied in order to gain perspective regarding just how one sided most scenarios are makes many men feel isolated by society.

Many of these thinking men in this sub have voiced interest in equality for both. Men here seek a place in a society that has automatically & legally cast them as the less desirable option for many things not related to danger or self-sacrifice.

Our problems are women’s problems and vice versa. United is the only way I see if we’re to fix everyone’s issues. Restructure a society that is unarguably disfunctional and predictably predatory.

Life-Ad1409 · 2022-06-07T03:51:49+00:00

Equal, the point of this sub is to talk about extremists putting women over men, showing times where it's the opposite of a patriarchy

Admirable-Door1724 · 2022-06-07T06:09:16+00:00

Definitely not for men over women. We’re like the “old feminists” maybe? The older feminists were the ones who fought for equality. The newer “KAM” feminists are the ones that are horrible, we discuss the problems that men face, in court/in general. Or problems that modern feminists cause. A lot of the new feminists do not want equality, but to put men down or be above them. Like the old days were, instead of trying to be equals. I feel like I’m repeating myself, but this is what I think this sub is about and I’ll try to answer if you have questions about my comment. This is, again, my view.

DavidByron2 · 2022-06-07T03:45:00+00:00

Yeah there's MRA who are women. It's not an issue that you're a woman.

In fact differing political opinions is more the issue, no? we allow all sorts of bad people to post - even feminists. You don't need to have a neutral attitude it would be fine if you were hostile too.

Yes all MRA think the sexes should be equal and by association the vast majority generally think all people should have equal rights -- rights which men now lack in the USA and other countries. This is a left wing view but for some weird reason a lot of MRA are Libertarians.

Traditional conservatism ("tradcon") of which feminism is a type, are the most anti-equal rights for men.

PUAs and "incels" don't have any particular relation with MRAs. They're more dating strategy groups I guess? MRA is a civil rights movement.

TextDependent6779 · 2022-06-07T07:02:39+00:00

one major thing i want to add that i haven't seen anyone else say yet.

if you find yourself with a place here more permanently, you aren't an 'ally'. you're just one of us, no different, supportive of equal rights for all. because we're all people, just with small differences.

SecondEldenLord · 2022-06-07T07:31:29+00:00

bAsically we want equality for all genders. In today's society women are over priviliged and have total control and power over men. They win more divorce court cases just because they are women, they are believed straight away with no evidence about everything, they can destroy a man's life just because they can and because they are a woman. We want equality among all of us.

welcometothejl · 2022-06-07T09:08:11+00:00

When I was growing up I would hear stories about dead beat dads and how guys would abandon their kids. That always seemed strange to me because I grew up in a stable home environment and my dad was always around.

Fast forward some years and I am a father in a failing relationship. My now ex wife and I divorce, but I am not worried because I am a good dad, and I have always been a good dad and there for my kids, not like those other dad's you hear about. Unfortunately what I didn't know was that the courts don't really care about any of that. All they care about is getting your money and giving it to the mom. It was very eye opening.

Later I would find out that equal custody isn't considered in "the best interests of the children" in my state. I also found out that states get federal incentives based on how efficiently they collect child support. That sounds great on the surface, but I feel like it has been perverted to force a lot of guys with regular jobs to pay their ex's because they're not rich enough to quit, but they're far enough away from poor to be a reliable source of child support.

I feel systemically discriminated against. You could be the best husband and father in the world, and she can divorce you for any reason. It's possible she could never work, never be grateful, starve you of affection, cheat on you, and at the end of the day take half of your stuff, your kids, alimony, and child support. How is that fair? That is why I am here.

The_big_A666 · 2022-06-07T09:09:22+00:00

I’m mainly here cause I think that it’s unfair that men are the majority of the prison population, men are massively discriminated against in divorce courts and other similar mens problems like prostate cancer and conscription. I also believe that there are womens issues but feminism is a far more mainstream movement that fighting for mens rights so those issues are far more public and are solved more. I would like to be art of feminist subreddits and to participate in those conversations but you get auto-banned from them if you join this subreddit which is indicative of feminisms disregard for mens problems as a whole. I am greatly aware of some amazing women who campaign for true equality but it takes one or two bad mods to ruin that.

NeoNotNeo · 2022-06-07T11:16:48+00:00

Both sexes should be equal whenever they stand before a judge, the education system, health care, media or government resources. They’re not.

That’s why I’m here.

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2022-06-07T14:51:50+00:00

We just want gender neutral laws for sexual offences, (including rape), Domestic violence, draft, genital mutilation.

Also, gender neutral family and marriage laws, equal custody and child support laws.
Child support to be based strictly on DNA reports or adoption papers (where voluntary adoption is applicable).

And equal right to abortion for all genders.. In case physical abortion is not viable option, then financial abortion.

If you want to know why we oppose feminism.

Well that is because feminists, (taxpayer funded feminist organisations) have at various point of times or in different countries, have opposed each and every one of above laws. (Including gender neutral rape and DV laws.).
They have also lobbied for or modified existing laws to make them biased against men.

I can gave you evidence for each. Not just in US, but almost everywhere across the globe. Of how feminists (taxpayer funded groups) lobbied for biased laws.

Our demands are pretty egalitarian. The only organisation standing in the way of such demands is the one which claims it stands gender-equality.

3DemocracyActivist · 2022-06-07T01:30:35+00:00

Up voted thank you for asking, we support 100% equality and that is all there is to it, I personally just come at it from the perspective that, men have less rights than women, because the government created misandrist laws and policies. I don't blame the average woman for this, it's not like the vast majority of women wrote these laws, it's the governments fault, they wrote and passed these laws, so I blame the the people in government, who wrote these laws, wether they are men or women.

The government in my opinion is abusive of the rights of both men and women, but is more abusive of mens rights. This is why I am an MRA. As a mens rights activist my goals are simply equalisation of men and women's rights. As a human rights activist I want to improve the rights of both men and women.

However, because the government puts an emphasis on attacking mens rights, I put an emphasis on defending mens rights in response. This is why I am an MRA. If men and women had 100% equal rights, laws and punishments there would be no point in me or anyone being an MRA.

The end goal of the mrm as far as I'm concerned is just equality and that's it. Honestly I think the majority of women wouldn't even be against this anyway and I'm pretty sure would vote in favour of equality if given a democratic choice on the matter anyway, especially if it was achieved via men gaining the same rights as women, rather than women losing the rights that men don't have.

NutsLikeMelons · 2022-06-07T01:40:39+00:00

I speak only for myself in this response. I don’t believe the best outcome for a society is removal of gender roles across the board. I believe the family unit was far better served - and so were communities - in a household with a stay at home mother. I believe the main drive to a two parent working household was economic consumption. And the outcomes speak for themselves now.

That being said, if we are going to have equality, let’s have real equality. Equal opportunities in education and work to be considered for positions. Equal pay for equal work. Equal status under the law. Equal requirements for mandatory military service. Equal rights not to be a parent or financial provider following the conception of an unwanted child. Equal rights to be innocent until proven guilty. Equal jail time for the same crimes. Equal expectation of protection from strangers in public. Equal amounts of domestic abuse shelters to be provided. Equal retirement age. Equal government benefits. Equal voting rights. Equal custody of children following divorce. Equal amounts of paid days off for menstrual pain. And just for shits and giggles let’s remove gender based sports competitions and have everybody compete equally.

I believe we either structure gender relations as a mutually agreed social construct that aims to deliver the best outcomes for society or we remove every single last gender based discrepancy no matter who it benefits or hurts.

DougDante · 2022-06-07T03:59:31+00:00

We have a FAQ

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/wiki/faq

Henry_Blair · 2022-06-07T05:10:06+00:00

Here is the full answer to your question (thanks for asking!)

https://lovists.com/2021/01/28/what-does-equality-look-like-in-the-feminist-society-we-live-in/

Exotic_Midnight4652 · 2022-06-07T10:03:22+00:00

I think that in some areas of the world (India for example) women's rights need to be addressed to make equality. However, in countries like the U.S, a woman can say a man raped them and they get instantly believed. There are also thing about how men's mental health is ignored, and the fact that prostate cancer is as deadly as breast cancer, but no one cares. So while yes, women are suppressed in some parts of the world, there are also parts where men are equally as discriminated against.

Namedoesntmatter89 · 2022-06-07T10:34:44+00:00

Definition of Equality:

How is equality defined? It appears to me that many of the ways feminism traditionally views equality very overwhelmingly favours women. Men who complain about problems impacting men are largely ignored, judged, and provided a feminist solution that doesnt really care about their issue.

Abortion:

I'm pro choice personally. I think not giving women the right to abortion is pretty dumb, but that being said, im a man.

There is little to protect men from unwanted pregnancies, even in cases of rape or if they made every attempt to practice safe sex. In the end, it is very likely that they will be on the hook for that child (that they dont want). You might not see it this way, but I find it rather strange that woman are so protected, but men have literally 0 protection on this one.

Child support:

Women should have to verify that child support payments are actually spent on the child. Whether this be done through some food stamp program, or a college fund, or receipts, or whatever, but there are numerous cases where child support is wasted on frivolous crap or even drugs. It's extremely hard to fix this stuff through court.

Believe all women:

No thanks. I dont believe anyone without evidence, but ill listen.

Marriage and personal life:

2 people should figure out how to best configure their lives. That being said, I strongly prefer submissive women, I'm really not a fan of aggressive domineering western women. I think a certain percentage of women are geared more towards technical things like hard sciences, but a lot (most) of them really just dont seem to like it, like at all (and studies even back that up) I grew up on Vancouver island bc, one of the most liberal places around, so I am not just some redneck know nothing.

I would rather let my children choose what they like to do and even encourage those traits, but the things is, im not going to push my daughter to do things she hates, nor my sons (i mean to a degree). I went into nursing as a job, i feel betrayed by our system b/c they lied to me. They made it out like it was so great to have more men, but they do not want men like me. So, if i have daughters, im probably going to push them far away from construction, tech etc. unless they are VERY strongly inclined for it. Same with boys, but the opposite.

End...

I have many more thoughts on this, but im kind of tired.

spike4379 · 2022-06-07T11:13:00+00:00

Most of us here, meaning 95% believe in actual 50/50 equality; The sad thing is that people who talk about this sub seem to think its some kind of conservative, bible-thumping mysogonistic recruitment camp, when a good chunk of us, myself included, aren't even from the US lol.

Glad you came here to ask :)

Arzakhan · 2022-06-07T14:39:03+00:00

The Mens rights movement isn’t that different from what feminists claim to want. Most of us want equality, men and women to have the same opportunities and chances in life, neither side treated better or worse.

freerossulbrich · 2022-06-07T05:16:41+00:00

I cannot speak for everyone.

However, I think not everyone deserve equal outcome. That one is obvious. I also do not think people deserve equal chance.

I test women's IQ before meeting her to make sure my children have high IQ. I am a financially responsible father. I don't party. I don't waste money travelling the world.

Why should my children have equal chance with everyone?

Why should I be forced to provide for others' children?

I myself don't come from a very rich. However, getting my children rich have been my main motivation to get rich so far.

So I am mostly anti communist in general.

I do not support equal chance even for differences that we have when we're born with. Those differences include gender.

Feminism feels like another form of communism to me. A lot of what they said convince me that feminism don't even want equality between men and women. They want equality between ugly women and beautiful women.

Many feminists oppose women becoming strippers, sugar babies, or even wife. Yet they insist that women enter professions where beauty don't matter, like STEM.

Humans are a little different than another. Those little differences make all the differences.

For now, at least, men need only to squirt sperm to have children. Women need to get pregnant for 9 months and nurse babies for years.

To me it isn't fair or pro women to have sex and reproduction be free. Left to free market, I bet most men would offer something else besides sperm or the woman that choose him. Usually either marriage or money.

I think anti prostitution laws hurt women. Again, feminists are against women.

So to me, men paying women for sex is fair, reasonable and the way things should be. But both feminists and conservatives oppose that.

Of course, if women can simply make money by selling sex, then poverty is always a choice for smart beautiful women. That means there is little need for welfare. Why do we provide safety net for those who choose to be financially responsible.

I think governments are sources of most oppressions and I like free market. This is something that most feminists directly oppose.

Will this always be the case? I have no idea. For example, along time ago, another major differences between men and women is the idea that women know who her children are. Men don't. But with paternity tests, normal patriarchy institution called marriage becomes obsolete.

So one day, women too can easily higher surrogate mothers. Then gender differences will be smaller too.

rit255 · 2022-06-07T05:20:30+00:00

Im going to say I support equality of opportunity because here is the thing, not even men are born equal to begin with, to ask people to consider women to be the same as men is like asking a child to do the same things a adult sized men can do.

Mountainking7 · 2022-06-07T06:23:25+00:00

My take is that since women want everything to be equal (especially in politics, CEO positions, board rooms, equal athletes pay while drawing in less cash, etc), the mandate should be EVERY job should have this lawful requirement of being 50-50 representation for EQUAL work.

Men (average men in general) would work less thus in those labouring, gruelling, dangerous jobs and be more represented in those easy office (air conditioned etc) jobs.

As requirements in jobs such as army, if the women are not as good as the men and having lower requirements, the same low requirements should apply for men and women should be made to work the same job (or army men given less to equate it) and it should be mandatory for females to join the army and be drafted at 50-50 for wars on the battle front. Not behind some shitty office doing admin jobs, or piloting drones or what else.....

In the legal system, men and women should get equal custody of child and men should be as equally responsible as the woman for the financial support of the child. They should not be the only one doing jail time or having to pay for child support and WORSE, in cases they are NOT EVEN THE FATHER.

The social structure in place for women should be 50-50 for all persons of society. Employment benefit, child care benefits, social shelters etc. If you are 'weaker' member of society, act like one but that is not a reason to have all the social structure and resources to service literally 50% of the population.

Any accusations by a female should have as little merit as that of a man UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

Those violence claims, sexual assault, cat calling, rpe accusations should be TOSSED out for both genders or heard on equal merits. As it stands, just on hearsay, men stand to lose it all. Women don't. Don't expect preferential treatment from institutions.

Either you want equality or you don't.

CptKillsteal · 2022-06-07T07:48:38+00:00

Media is so caught up in getting women the same amount of higher education and high paying jobs they stopped thinking what's it costing. Same with rights.

Crunchy_Toast_07 · 2022-06-07T08:41:32+00:00

Men and women are indeed different in many ways but both should be treated equally by everyone..

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2022-06-07T14:44:20+00:00

We just want gender neutral laws for sexual offences, (including rape), Domestic violence, draft, genital mutilation.

Also, gender neutral family and marriage laws, equal custody and child support laws.
Child support to be based strictly on DNA reports or adoption papers (where voluntary adoption is applicable).

And equal right to abortion for all genders.. In case physical abortion is not viable option, then financial abortion.

If you want to know why we oppose feminism.

Well that is because feminists, (taxpayer funded feminist organisations) have at various point of times or in different countries, have opposed each and every one of above laws. (Including gender neutral rape and DV laws.).
They have also lobbied for or modified existing laws to make them biased against men.

I can gave you evidence for each. Not just in US, but almost everywhere across the globe. Of how feminists (taxpayer funded groups) lobbied for biased laws.

Our demands are pretty egalitarian. The only organisation standing in the way of such demands is the one which claims it stands gender-equality.

goinsouth85 · 2022-06-07T15:00:57+00:00

Want to find out about us? Participate in the discussions. If you find something disagreeable, feel free to argue. Short of a few no-no’s (threatening violence, racial slurs), we don’t ban.

Additional_Change_42 · 2022-06-07T20:30:57+00:00

Men and women will never be equal. Men aren't equal to other men, women aren't equal to other women. No one is equal, not even in a group of your closest friends. If you really want to see some of the hardships of being a man, go to poormanspodcast on YouTube and watch a few videos, and listen to what he's saying. No one has it as easy as others think they do. Women think they are treated like objects? That's not exclusive to women. Men are most definitely objects. If a man can't work or provide, he is useless, and men are now being treated as sexual objects, as well. Men are the whipping posts of the world, and no one has our back. There is no patriarchy. Do you know why people say "man up"? It's because men are expected to do all of the harsh, dirty, nasty, and potentially fatal things in life that they don't want to do, whereas a woman isn't. Being a man is not a picnic or a party. It is a grueling life of work, stress, and not getting any respect for it. It feels like being a man is damn near a crime these days. I've never done anything to anyone, but all this male-hate shit has me feeling fucking guilty, you know? Same with the racism bullshit. I feel like I can't trust women and that all other races immediately hate me because I'm a white dude. Anyway, if you look into the statistics of workplace deaths, victims of violent crime, suicides, and other things of that nature, you will see men at the top of every list. Men even get more jail time for the exact same crimes as women. Not to mention all of the fake rape and abuse allegations that go unpunished. Fathers have no rights. The differences between men and women are vast, from our places in society, to what we are, fundamentally, as animals. Different things are expected of both genders in all societal and primal situations. Men are better at certain things, women are better at certain things. The things men are better at tend to be more important. That may be offensive, but it's accurate. I think that men are better leaders, and should be in charge of the home. There are women that are better leaders, but generally, leaders are men. It comes down to logic and reason versus emotions and asthetics. Example: My friends wife wants to move into a new house because she "just wants something new". She doesn't work, he is not rich and they have three kids. They look at houses mainly to humor her, because buying a house in this market is retarded. Everytime she thinks a house is "cute" he finds all kinds of shit wrong with it. If she were the money and decision maker she would have moved her family into the first house she thought was "cute", and there would have been immediate issues. When he tries to talk to her about how illogical it is to buy a house in this market, she get emotional and thinks he is calling her stupid. By all rights, he could accurately call her stupid. - I could go on for pages about men and women, but what it comes down to is everyone is a fucking idiot, and men and women need each other.

Heretodistractmypain · 2022-06-07T07:26:58+00:00

As a woman I believe in intersectional feminism. Aka equality. I also learn about issues that do not directly affect my life (that's not an achievement but I think everyone should be interested in stuff that do not affect them). Men's rights are one thing I have been supporting. I've had talks with my friends. Many male friends have sadly been surprised to hear someone being interested in their issues. I'm still ignorant in many things but I try my best. I want equality for everyone.

Greg_W_Allan · 2022-06-07T02:41:19+00:00

This sub just kinda intrigues me haha

haha?

ChxsenK · 2022-06-07T07:54:14+00:00

First of all, welcome. We welcome everyone with an open hart trying to learn about us :)

My PERSONAL opinion is that there should be equality of oportunity. Equality of outcome in everything would mean the collapse of society. Like imagine if the current gender quotas not only applied to office jobs, but to mines, construction, and dangerous works in general. That would force women to significantly increase their chances to die and do the jobs they dont want to do.

In dating, equality of outcome would mean that low quality people will end up with high quality people. Now think about that, imagine being forced to be with a person you don't want to be with. Society would see the biggest revolt ever.

Equality of oportunity gives everyone the same headstart and then the best will get better rewards. Let me clarify that what we have is not equality of oportunity. A lot of it set already by your conditions of birth. And most things can be bypassed just by being born rich.

In my honest opinion, humans are meant to work in symbiosis, as a team, to reach the common goals. There is no need for the genders to compete with one another. What I mean is that for example, a mother's "duty" is equaly important as an engineer's duty in my eyes. Both are necessary. Its just that today's society is completely blinded by money and clout and that's all that matters, it seems. Being rich and famous.

We still have a long way to go as a society.

drakenpage222 · 2022-06-07T08:27:31+00:00

Fuck it: I'm a short king, trying to get a tall woman (I'm 5'0. and 4'5 in the wheelchair) If she ain't fucking 9'8 I'm out. I'm trying to say. If It's not ay for a girl to want a tall, strong guy. I want a tall girl, who is strong. Without being called gay.

SnooKiwis5976 · 2022-06-07T09:51:21+00:00

i believe both women and men should have equal opportunity in education , healthcare , gender neutral laws , politics

other than that it should be up to the indiviual

nickocratus · 2022-06-07T11:07:31+00:00

Hi! A bit late the post, but wanted to provide my feedback anyways. So glad to see your post! There are plenty of places I've considered doing the same thing.

Personally I just desire gender to not take a role in anything. I think we're all humans and gender really doesn't matter. Currently both genders have issues where they are not represented fairly and thats bullshit.

Idk im certainly less educated on issues than plenty of others, but it is easier for me to see the injustices towards the male gender since I am one. I don't think men should be valued more highly than women or women more highly than men. Just apply issues through a human lense instead of a gender lense.

Obviously this isn't perfect and some situations are nuanced because of strict biological functions and issues, but I think if both sides were open to improving all of us more than stamping down the other, we would be a lot more productive.

I think one of the issues that is an easy example pertaining directly to me is abortion. I 100% support the woman's right to choose, however I think men should also have a choice to "legally" abort where they are not held responsible. Obviously there are situations regarding availability of medical care due to location price etc.

I could certainly stand to educate myself better regarding plenty of discussions that come up, but I hope I've explained myself well and answered your question!

Of course I'm just one person on this sub and with every different person you get different views, but these are mine.

JustALotOfLetters · 2022-06-07T12:36:16+00:00

In society, I think we should have equal opportunity. In relationships, you should have a an equal opportunity to explain your perspectives on things and let the other person be themselves. No nagging, as it is psychological abuse. I generally think that men are better at regulating their emotions and the man (or if the woman is more emotionally stable) should usually be the emotional leader. This means that if there is a dispute, the more level headed party is to diffuse the situation and bring peace back to the interaction. I think that in general men usually understand that being in charge means that you have to look out for the person you are in charge of and that means extra responsibility as far as regulating the situation. You are in charge of creating harmony if you are in charge and not being a tyrant. If a person gets off on trying to tell people what to do, that person is immature and is unfit for leadership. I think on average that women don’t understand the responsibility they have beyond the power of being in charge more so than your average man. Obviously not all men are ready to be leaders. In any hierarchy such as a business or a relationship, someone has to be in charge, so the idea of “equal power” is ridiculous because you cannot have to conflicting visions. This is why feminism doesn’t work, because they want to nag men and society without putting in equal work and equal sacrifice and equal responsibility.

Svensonsan2 · 2022-06-07T13:39:37+00:00

Equal by witch deffinition male or female? I believe that for that reason that our values are so different that equality is imposible. Attraction is based on that inequality. Someone will allways get a shorter end of the stick in different fields

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2022-06-07T14:36:05+00:00

We just want gender neutral laws for sexual offences, (including rape), Domestic violence, draft, genital mutilation.

Also, gender neutral family and marriage laws, equal custody and child support laws.
Child support to be based strictly on DNA reports or adoption papers (where voluntary adoption is applicable).

And equal right to abortion for all genders.. In case physical abortion is not viable option, then financial abortion.

If you want to know why we oppose feminism.

Well that is because feminists, (taxpayer funded feminist organisations) have at various point of times or in different countries, have opposed each and every one of above laws. (Including gender neutral rape and DV laws.).
They have also lobbied for or modified existing laws to make them biased against men.

I can gave you evidence for each. Not just in US, but almost everywhere across the globe. Of how feminists (taxpayer funded groups) lobbied for biased laws.

Our demands are pretty egalitarian. The only organisation standing in the way of such demands is the one which claims it stands gender-equality.

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2022-06-07T14:36:21+00:00

We just want gender neutral laws for sexual offences, (including rape), Domestic violence, draft, genital mutilation.

Also, gender neutral family and marriage laws, equal custody and child support laws.
Child support to be based strictly on DNA reports or adoption papers (where voluntary adoption is applicable).

And equal right to abortion for all genders.. In case physical abortion is not viable option, then financial abortion.

If you want to know why we oppose feminism.

Well that is because feminists, (taxpayer funded feminist organisations) have at various point of times or in different countries, have opposed each and every one of above laws. (Including gender neutral rape and DV laws.).
They have also lobbied for or modified existing laws to make them biased against men.

I can gave you evidence for each. Not just in US, but almost everywhere across the globe. Of how feminists (taxpayer funded groups) lobbied for biased laws.

Our demands are pretty egalitarian. The only organisation standing in the way of such demands is the one which claims it stands gender-equality.

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2022-06-07T14:37:31+00:00

We just want gender neutral laws for sexual offences, (including rape), Domestic violence, draft, genital mutilation.

Also, gender neutral family and marriage laws, equal custody and child support laws.
Child support to be based strictly on DNA reports or adoption papers (where voluntary adoption is applicable).

And equal right to abortion for all genders.. In case physical abortion is not viable option, then financial abortion.

If you want to know why we oppose feminism.

Well that is because feminists, (taxpayer funded feminist organisations) have at various point of times or in different countries, have opposed each and every one of above laws. (Including gender neutral rape and DV laws.).
They have also lobbied for or modified existing laws to make them biased against men.

I can gave you evidence for each. Not just in US, but almost everywhere across the globe. Of how feminists (taxpayer funded groups) lobbied for biased laws.

Our demands are pretty egalitarian. The only organisation standing in the way of such demands is the one which claims it stands gender-equality.

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2022-06-07T14:38:02+00:00

We just want gender neutral laws for sexual offences, (including rape), Domestic violence, draft, genital mutilation.

Also, gender neutral family and marriage laws, equal custody and child support laws.
Child support to be based strictly on DNA reports or adoption papers (where voluntary adoption is applicable).

And equal right to abortion for all genders.. In case physical abortion is not viable option, then financial abortion.

If you want to know why we oppose feminism.

Well that is because feminists, (taxpayer funded feminist organisations) have at various point of times or in different countries, have opposed each and every one of above laws. (Including gender neutral rape and DV laws.).
They have also lobbied for or modified existing laws to make them biased against men.

I can gave you evidence for each. Not just in US, but almost everywhere across the globe. Of how feminists (taxpayer funded groups) lobbied for biased laws.

Our demands are pretty egalitarian. The only organisation standing in the way of such demands is the one which claims it stands gender-equality.

Adanu0 · 2022-06-07T21:59:06+00:00

True equality doesn't exist; men and women are inherently different. Trying to pretend otherwise just ruins social dynamics between the genders, and has for decades.

What we CAN do is acknowledge that things have progressed technologically that the old traditional roles are no longer a total necessity and that housekeeping is no longer a full time job, and that women entering the workforce devalued money to the point that keeping a family stable in this age means sacrifices if you don't have a financial cushion. There's a reason daycares skyrocketed, after all.

Until women are willing to acknowledge the reality though, we're all fucked, and tinder turning dating into a harem simulator just made things worse.

HoneCraft · 2022-06-08T00:06:33+00:00

I always love to see open mind people. Great to know you tried to understand our side.

miraak2077 · 2022-06-08T00:20:26+00:00

Definitely they should be equal!

Scary-Ad-1345 · 2022-06-07T12:13:08+00:00

If the world was equal black people would be on top just saying

HighestTierMaslow · 2022-06-07T21:25:45+00:00

Oh honey, 99% of the men here are bitter and hate women. They arent going to admit it though. They think men are better than women and are full of all sorts of double standards. They assume all women are evil without knowing anything about them and will exploit them...when you give them a reasonable response they dont use critical thinking.

Title	please don't downvote me, just genuinely curious! i just like to learn haha
Author	thecryptidk
Upvotes	106
Comments	199
Date	June 6, 2022 9:44 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/v6eiqv/please_dont_downvote_me_just_genuinely_curious_i/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/please-dont-downvote-me-just-genuinely-curious-i.1116965 https://theredarchive.com/post/1116965

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