Do men actually care if a woman is smart/professionally successful or not?

RatchedAngle · 2023-04-28T12:39:09+00:00

When I was in nursing school, most of the surgeons I met were married to other surgeons. Most of the doctors I worked with were married to other doctors.

Redpilled men will argue left and right that men don’t care about a woman’s education or her career, but when I look outside of redpill spheres, I’m seeing a lot of men who absolutely do care about these things.

Also, I don’t know any man who wants a woman that will just blindly agree with everything he says (unless it’s Andrew Tate or Sneako).

My husband has told me that he enjoys healthy disagreement. You can challenge a man without degrading or demeaning him. My husband and I frequently discuss opposing viewpoints on various topics.

danielcc07 · 2023-04-28T18:34:49+00:00

Men want someone of their same status and intellect. I've dated dumb people. It was not fun. My wife is smart, and owns a medical practice. Doesn't mean I expect her to be devoted to the practice.

I want intelligent conversations and smart kids. Money is easy.

Environmental_Ad5867 · 2023-04-28T13:15:16+00:00

People tend to end up with people similar to them ie educational background, social class, looks match etc. The ones publicised in media tend to be outliers but the fact is, majority of people do end up with people they have things in common with.

I see my partner as highly intelligent (aside from his educational accomplishments), high earning. I myself am educated and similarly high earning. However, in this or my previous relationships, I don’t think I spent my time ‘challenging’ them intellectually. I’m not argumentative for the sake of being ‘devils advocate’ or whatever. I like peace. We had a lot of (to outsiders) seemingly mundane conversations tbh but we’re compatible because we have the same sense of humour, outlook, general interests. In essence, we’re like every other normal couple. We’re not debating everything and anything to prove how smart we are. So far, we’re happy and getting married in a few months.

There are nuances though. When I asked my partner if my education mattered, he said no but he said- “but I wouldn’t be compatible with someone who was just coasting through life like a waitress or mcdonalds. Our values are too different. For a one off date sure but not to marry.”

Let’s clarify something. Men are visual and they are attracted to beautiful women. HOWEVER, a lot of middle class men prioritise stability and being able to trust their partners. Meaning that a lot of them won’t just go for a pretty face but is a complete hot mess otherwise. They’re not looking for a dramatic pet or worse, a liability that will implode everything he’s worked so hard for. They need to know she can hold her own so he can focus on building their lives.

I can only answer from my experience. When I meet men, they approach me because they find me attractive (I modelled prior to med school). Once they talk to me they realise that I’m a doctor and every time, they’re impressed because they know what it took for me to achieve that and a lot of them transpose it to think it makes me more caring, emphatic etc (whether it’s true or not). When I do get into relationships, my job is always mentioned when I’m first introduced to his social circles. I can tell that he is proud to show me off and that’s really nice.

P.S

I noted your conversation about surgeons. My exes were surgeons and they tend to date (and marry) other doctors too, possibly nurses. It’s true that doctors end up with other doctors, all my doctor friends married doctors. People assume I’m marrying another doctor and all are surprised when I tell them no.

vintagegirlgame · 2023-04-28T21:16:39+00:00

If he’s a top tier man he will want a woman who has an “interesting” career if not a lucrative one. Exotic hobbies can also fulfill this role. Men like to brag about their women’s accomplishments but not their bank accounts.

For example I’m not just a model but I’ve won and now direct a unique series of national and international beauty pageants (that combine athletic skills w traditional pageantry). My “dream job” doesn’t make me tons of money but it’s super unique and I’ll be featured in a Netflix documentary coming out soon about it. I also pickup work as a pro organizer, pro chef, pro artist and i garden… Besides my career I bring a lot of feminine skills to the table.

No-Line-996 · 2023-04-28T15:54:12+00:00

I have found that MOST educated men prefer educated women, but it's definitely not 100% of the time. Look up assortative mating. Most people get with others on their same socioeconomic and educational level. May just be due to proximity.

StillWatersLily · 2023-04-28T12:44:42+00:00

So in my opinion, it depends of course on the person, but also on social class.

I read the book Class by Paul Fussell a couple years ago and while it's quite dated and fairly tongue in cheek, it does a good job at highlighting some of the inherent differences in attitudes by social class, which isn't the same as income.

I would guess that your hypothetical man would choose the supermodel if he were originally from a "lower" class and would choose the woman with the similar class and educational background to him if he were from a "higher" class.

NupeRanger · 2023-04-28T18:06:31+00:00

You are merging two different concepts.

A woman being smart (i.e. above average IQ) is not the same as being a high earning doctor or lawyer. She can be intelligent with a bachelor's in early childhood development and be above average in looks and land a high earning man. It's more about being a good wife and mother, more so than her earning potential.

For women to be successful in male dominated fields, they tend to need to develop more masculine traits, like being less agreeable and more demanding. These are traits that most high earning men want to avoid in their home life. Work is demanding enough. He wants support not a challenge at home.

That said, he (likely) does not want a dumb airhead to procreate with. The trophy wife tends to be a second wife after his kids are adults. Also, his wife needs to be competent enough to manage the home life, give him smarter children, and manage the education of their children. It's why these men don't often marry a dumb stripper or high school drop out who is cute.

TheBunk_TB · 2023-04-28T13:29:42+00:00

TBH, I have had problems with a few "more simplistic" love choices. It made things hard.

undothatbutton · 2023-04-28T16:40:24+00:00

Most people do indeed marry in the same SES as them. So they marry someone similarly educated, similar background, usually similar religion/political party/race/etc.

Even very wealthy or educated men want a beautiful woman who is also smart/educated enough to hold her own around his friends and family. There are always handsome/rich men who just want interchangeable beautiful arm candy but pretty much no man (or woman) wants a life partner to raise children with who is dumb as a doorknob, uneducated, wildly different class, etc. Part of it is just having their partner fit into their life. When you’re raised higher class, you learn these subtle social nuances someone raised lower class doesn’t. So it may not matter that you have a fancy degree or job or earning potential in and of itself, so much as it matters that you’re similar enough in background you can fit into his lifestyle.

(Obligatory disclaimer there are always some exceptions. But this is generally true.)

aussiedollface2 · 2023-04-29T01:50:26+00:00

You’ve mentioned a neurosurgeon so I will comment on this as I’m a physician and therefore have spent a lot of time around male surgeons and physicians.

Nowadays, yes, to some degree. The days of the rich successful neurosurgeon having a pretty but uneducated wife to manage the home seem to be dying out. Most high earning doctors I know are with other doctors, or other educated women. Part of that is def proximity, but also societal attitudes about “trophy wives”. Eg it’s not enough to be pretty, you now have to be pretty and accomplished. Not saying I agree but just that’s how I think it is. As for men who are wealthy but not from an “intellectual” pursuit, I think they are more flexible. Like a successful builder who then expands into his own company or whatever, I’ve seen much more variability in their wives than I have in the traditionally intellect that pursuits.

Thiccsmartie · 2023-04-28T13:21:58+00:00

People date people in the same social class/same background and similar education. Even more so that most people will find their SO during college/ at work/ and through their friend-circle. Anecdotally, I see it it in all my girlfriends which all have at least a Masters degree, their boyfriends/husbands do too. The two girlfriends that are doctors have a boyfriend that are doctors. Personally I am doing a PhD and my boyfriend has a doctor title as well. I also have a couple male friends from my studies and I did ask some of them if they would date someone that did not go to college and the consensus was that they want to have someone who has at least an undergraduate degree.

rjschwerin · 2023-04-28T12:57:22+00:00

I do 110%. Imagine wondering if gender gives you an excuse to be lazy.

Smart people want smart kids.

itburnsss45 · 2023-04-28T15:51:37+00:00

I think it depends on the man, but on the most part, yes, they do. Like goes with like.

I look at my own life as an example. My partner is absolutely brilliant, exceedingly smart. I myself am pretty damn brainy but not as smart as him (it's hard to compete haha). He likes me because we have complex discussions and I stimulate him. To be honest, one partner is always going to be "smarter" than the other though. But the difference can't be too great where the "smarter" partner is not getting their needs met. We are both well educated. I'm not 100% sure whether it's education that matters though? I think it's more about whether you have something intelligent to add and can provide enough stimulation for your partner for their intellectual needs to be met? Or maybe if one partner can't meet the partners intellectual needs they have to be happy getting those needs met outside the relationship.

I'm not that professionally successful but that's mainly to do with factors outside my control. Despite my lack of professional success I am a deep thinker which is not all that common. I also am more objectively attractive than my partner and I think this gives me extra points. The main problem is class and the career aspirations and values associated with this. This is a MASSIVE issue in my relationship. I can't tell you how complicated coming from different social classes and social/educational backgrounds makes things.

frvalne · 2023-04-28T18:14:32+00:00

Ok my husband isn’t a surgeon, but he’s in finance and he makes $300k+. He’s 6’5”, handsome, fit, head full of hair, handsome face. More than that he’s a man of character, loyal, and an amazing father.

As for myself? I’m a stay-at-home mom and I homeschool our 4 kids. My husband doesn’t give a single crap that I’m not also pulling in the big bucks. He’ll tell you so.

He’ll tell you I’m his dream wife and that he wouldn’t change a thing about his life.

A few things I want to mention.

Just because I’m not also a surgeon or a doctor or a career woman doesn’t mean I’m not interesting. I am well read, I have lots of friends, I have many hobbies, I have lots of opinions on things, I read a lot of books, and I am intelligent.

We also share a lot of common interests when it comes to our children, and some of our hobbies and interests. We also have a lot of different interests so that keeps things interesting as well.

I challenge him in religious and political thoughts and discussions and we like to have philosophical discussions with each other.

We are best friends.

What he has in me is somebody who is devoted to caring for his children and his household and for him as a person. Someone who is available to him and not always busy, busting her butt, trying to bring in money herself. He makes enough money for all of us.

I contribute to the family in other ways that aren’t monetary, but are nonetheless very valuable. Some might argue that my contributions are more valuable in many ways.

I also want to mention that my husband wasn’t rich when I met him. He was poor, in fact. I chose him because I liked his voice and his smile and the good person he was and is. I never knew that he would be “rich “one day. It honestly never occurred to me. It’s something that happened because he’s a hard worker and a diligent man and he likes to provide for his family. He’s driven to provide.

But I chose him because he stood out to me as being a good and decent person, and someone I felt like I could trust and be friends with for the rest of my life and someone that I was attracted to, and wanted to spend my days with.

12 years and 4 kids later, he’s still that. Above all else he’s that. of course it’s nice not to worry about money and be well provided for, I would never lie about that.

But the joy, the joy that I experience in my life is not a result of his salary, and more result of his friendship and goodness.

And he has that in me as well.

Another sidenote: he doesn’t like to sit and talk about his job outside of work hours. It’s something that he does, and finds interesting to a point. But it’s not his passion. So it’s not like he was looking for a wife who he can sit and talk finance with.

He still finds me to be a fun challenge just by being an interesting and engaging woman and partner.

Euphoric-Chain-5155 · 2023-04-28T17:47:16+00:00

They don't care in the sense that they're not considering the woman's career or education in their selection of a mate. They care in the sense that they're picking the future mother of their children, and they don't want stupid children.

This is why the expression that a woman was attending college for her MRS degree came about. It's not said (at least by men) with any sort of derision. It's to point out that she's shopping specifically for an educated husband, and signaling that she will make an intelligent wife and mother.

Modern women see the goal, but don't understand the point of the goal.

lajamaikeina · 2023-04-28T18:23:22+00:00

My high earning husband seems to love telling his coworkers and clients about all the things I do and am good at (medicine background, bartend/create cocktails for fine dining restaurants, etc) and it makes him super proud to show me off and makes his peers super jealous he has a woman like me as his wife. So I wouldn’t take RP comments seriously regarding women and their non physical traits and skills.

cohost3 · 2023-04-28T14:59:51+00:00

I think this is one thing the red pill gets wrong. I think high value men do care about sophistication and prestige, just maybe not as much as women do.

My husband comes from a working class family and he loves to tell people I am a teacher (decently high earning in my country). He says he is proud that I am hard working and want to contribute to the family earning. He does get annoyed when that gets in the way of me caring for him. Can’t win it all I guess lol

thegoodabuser · 2023-04-28T12:40:01+00:00

Some. I think this is a very “stay in your lane” kind of situation. I think men care that a woman is successful to whatever he considers a an adequate level of success, usually based on his own. If he is super rich I think they care less about success because it’s mostly redundant at that point.

Generally you would suspect someone decently successful to want someone decent successful. Even if just outwardly. If someone is decently successful or at least stable, they probably want someone around that level so they have more in common. I think there is a huge gap between the mindset of working class success to, could support a trophy wife success.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2023-04-29T07:01:10+00:00

So as a man who fits the description, I will say this: I’d do not care in the slightest about a woman’s education/job, particularly the latter. It is important to bear in mind that intelligence and education often correlate, it is certainly the case that someone can be intelligent without being educated. And one can certainly be educated, without being intelligent, as women’s studies programs amply demonstrate.

challenging

When you write “challenging” I read “pain in the ass.”

Men want a woman to be their peace. I want to come home to a loving and nurturing environment, so I would much rather date a cashier who is empathetic than a CEO who wanted to argue politics.

Education can certainly be valuable, but it only adds to a woman’s RMV, not her SMV. Don’t get it twisted.

mistressusa · 2023-04-28T19:00:49+00:00

High achieving men care. Not necessarily about your income, but they care if you are at their level of intelligence and have a direction in life. My husband cared that I, like him, went to a prestigious university and had a career. That was 30 yrs ago, but it's still true today.

My daughter's bf (both 22) cares that she is also a tier-1 college grad and has a management track job at a Fortune 50. He makes 5X what she makes, pays for everything and knows that she may want to be a SAHM one day. She makes avg of her Ivy's new grads, but he's a brilliant tech bro so he gets money thrown at him.

I think people who insist that men don't care just have a different definition of HVM than you (and I). I had a RP guy tell me that HVM is any man who makes $100K+, for example.

Outlawedspank · 2023-04-28T13:20:28+00:00

I feel like I can give a good answer here, I’m tall, I consider myself smart, I work in finance and make a lot of money.

I know it sounds so pretentious but I really think I can give a perspective here. And don’t get me wrong I have my own problems, I’m chubby now.

All the women I have dated have been smart too, I don’t care about their professions, I’m talking about are you able to have a sophisticated conversation with them, are they going to form their own original opinion and analysis and share their thoughts.

I’m not saying we’re having philosophy debates every night, I’m talking about we can watch a movie and she gives an interesting perspective and we can talk about world events.

I think most men including myself don’t care that much about a woman’s profession, it simply isn’t want I care about, I’m looking for personality, and looks to an extent too of course.

And I’m going to say it, especially since I want plenty of kids too in my future, I am looking for fertility signs, it’s only natural. I place far higher value on that than a woman’s profession when looking for a long term partner.

diaryofalostgirl · 2023-04-28T21:47:50+00:00

This is on my mind since I have a gala coming up in August, so I'll put it out there as a plausible factor:

Can you attend the kind of events he will be attending and neither show him up nor make him look like he's picked you off the dung heap?

This applies to weddings, galas, his company's Christmas party, family reunions, and yes, funerals (dear God, the number of people who can't comport themselves at funerals). Class read as an expression of culture + finances is a large factor here.

I have yet to personally encounter exceptions to this, although I'm told they exist. I do know the horror story that proves the rule, however.

V3r1disqu0 · 2023-04-29T21:29:27+00:00

In my experience (I'm about 25 years past college, so I've had a chance to see everyone I grew up with pair off,) people tend to end up with someone who is of comparable intelligence to themselves, as well as an approximate looks match.

"Chemistry" matches, where looks was a major factor to begin with, appear to be more difficult to maintain over time.

ReflexionSolutions · 2023-04-28T16:05:32+00:00

I don't know what other guys think, but if I think about my friends and myself, I would say we mostly care about the intellectual aspect. We like a woman that will be able to have deep and meaningful conversations on various topics, someone who loves to learn. I never talked with my friends about other aspects of what they look for, but personally I know I don't mind the education level (as long as she can be intellectually "challenging").

Also, I wouldn't really mind about her income. I would like to see a woman happy and thriving in her work because she likes it (even if she earns almost nothing from it), rather than a woman making a big income but who is just too stressed by it or worse, who doesn't even really like her work. That's another point, in many fields, you have to work a lot in order to be professionally successful, and this can have impacts both in terms of stress and not having a lot of time together. I'd rather have a partner less successful, with a lower income, but who's more relaxed and happy and with whom I can spend some time because she's not always busy.

shmupsy · 2023-04-28T19:14:20+00:00

ugh so many guys are looking for that duel income partner.

but i personally want a really good mother in the house.

Such_Beginning_1629 · 2023-04-28T21:21:02+00:00

Here I see very very few men that attended university with a woman that does NOT at least attended the Gymnasium as well. Realschule is pushing it. Women who attended a Hauptschule would need to be a solid 10 in looks for any man with Niveau to date them.

TuckerTheCuckFucker · 2023-04-29T00:47:20+00:00

Most guys don’t want a partner who has the same knowledge as them. They don’t want to come home from work and talk about work

They want to come home to a nice cooked meal and a loving embrace with good convo, and then sex later. That is literally all most men want in their partner

They don’t care if she’s a high earner or super smart. They just want a peaceful life without drama and lots of intimacy

That doesn’t mean guys aren’t I interested in Women but I’d argue that most red pillers aren’t going to desire high earning women

FirstBornAthlete · 2023-04-29T03:00:17+00:00

I’m a married man that usually just reads to get female perspective on things. But this seems like a rare question that I can add value to the discussion. Men that make a lot of money usually don’t care about a woman’s job and income. Traditionally it’s the man’s job to bring in money and women generally prefer not to have to work, esp after having kids. I have a very demanding job and my wife is a SAHM. I don’t and never did care only about looks or her income. My wife is smart and she had a career in media that literally had limitless potential. She could have been running all the programming on a very popular national TV network if she wanted to but she chose to be a mom instead. The stories she has are cool but I picked her because she has a wicked sense of humor and she was attractive to me. The men you refer to generally do go for better looking women because they can. But if you marry a woman who only has looks you’re asking for trouble. You don’t need to be professionally successful or academically smart, although it can help if you pick new things up quickly. But if you as a woman marry a guy who is successful and he wants children (as most of those guys do) then you have to either decide your job is important enough to you to be mother and worker or just mother. He is going to work long hours and simply not have much time to help with the kids. My grandfather was a heart surgeon. My mom tells me he was always at the hospital so my grandma took care of the kids. My grandma wasn’t dumb but she had her role.

Wewinky · 2023-04-28T20:22:02+00:00

For a high stress job I'd imagine they'd want to home to someone in-between. Someone who doesn't add more stress. An overly successful women could be that, a not very smart person can do that too. So I'd say if doesn't matter unless until it causes unnecessary stress.

Glad-Enthusiasm6690 · 2023-04-28T17:45:16+00:00

Jusk ask men

Ok_Communication_199 · 2023-04-29T15:50:59+00:00

Since women always expect a men to make more than them, that means her job is completely useless in making men more attracted to her.

AutoModerator · 2023-04-28T12:02:50+00:00

Title: Do men actually care if a woman is smart/professionally successful or not?

Full text:

If a guy is say, affluent and very professionally successful, let's say like 6'1 neurosurgeon or something, would he only care about looks in a partner? I'm sure it depends on the guy but what is the general rule?

This will sound really superficial but I'm just curious-like even if someone is rich, are they not interested in someone who is also high-earning, like say someone averagely pretty but also a doctor, because something may happen to him, or because money is something you can always have more of etc. etc. (assuming they're not inheriting money-or I guess, even if they are). Like do they not really value this?

Also-how do really educated guys like live with people who are not like "challenging them" intellectually for that long-what do they even talk about, are their marriages generally happy, are they generally cheating on them etc etc.?

If most guys with this type of background had to choose between like a supermodel to show off to their friends or an averagely pretty Harvard doctor or something would they choose supermodel?

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ArdentBandicoot · 2023-04-28T18:02:46+00:00

[permanently deleted]

dankovz · 2023-04-28T22:50:57+00:00

In my experience I didn’t care, but I notice too that women with no profession were more likely to have problems/traumas

VigilanteJusticia · 2023-04-28T23:54:31+00:00

It will vary depending on the guy’s personality and what he’s looking for. Some guys are looking for a stay at home wife. Some are looking for a woman who can help him run his business. There’s no right or wrong answer. It’s about finding someone who cares about the same things as you.

FirstBornAthlete · 2023-04-29T03:00:23+00:00

I’m a married man that usually just reads to get female perspective on things. But this seems like a rare question that I can add value to the discussion. Men that make a lot of money usually don’t care about a woman’s job and income. Traditionally it’s the man’s job to bring in money and women generally prefer not to have to work, esp after having kids. I have a very demanding job and my wife is a SAHM. I don’t and never did care only about looks or her income. My wife is smart and she had a career in media that literally had limitless potential. She could have been running all the programming on a very popular national TV network if she wanted to but she chose to be a mom instead. The stories she has are cool but I picked her because she has a wicked sense of humor and she was attractive to me. The men you refer to generally do go for better looking women because they can. But if you marry a woman who only has looks you’re asking for trouble. You don’t need to be professionally successful or academically smart, although it can help if you pick new things up quickly. But if you as a woman marry a guy who is successful and he wants children (as most of those guys do) then you have to either decide your job is important enough to you to be mother and worker or just mother. He is going to work long hours and simply not have much time to help with the kids. My grandfather was a heart surgeon. My mom tells me he was always at the hospital so my grandma took care of the kids. My grandma wasn’t dumb but she had her role.

yoni94 · 2023-04-29T05:34:45+00:00

So to answer your question I'm married to a doctor but I'm an (unemployed due to childrearing) teacher.i consider myself less educated than my husband not due to my career but due to life experiences and interests. He is 9 years older than me and has 15 years of work experience. I worked for 1 year while pregnant, then stayed home to raise my 2 kids. This life experience, plus him being an avid reader of history and politics, makes him more educated in my eyes. Many of his friends are married to doctors. I don't think it's due to money or career position I think it's due to proximity. Because medicine is such a time-consuming job, it's hard to meet people out of the medical field. A wife doesn't need to challenge her husband. We make conversation about everything work, politics, medicine. You must be generally educated and able to converse about everything if you want a high value man. That doesn't equate to challenging him. My hubby always teaches me new things but I also contribute to our conversations. But in general, I think high value men are looking for someone noncombative who is easy and pleasant to be around. The reason most men go for career women is because a lot of SAH wives become needy because they don't have a purpose beyond being a wife and mom. Having hobbies, cooking, going to the gym, and focusing on yourself more can combat that. My husband doesn't need me for money, but he does encourage me to improve myself, so I have something to do besides being a mom. I'm getting my Masters degree now while being a SAHM.

MysiaPysia666 · 2023-04-30T22:30:13+00:00

Educated woman with career is a huge ego and social status boost for men, however it is important not to outshine them and stay feminine

Title	Do men actually care if a woman is smart/professionally successful or not?
Author	Over-Designer4994
Upvotes	25
Comments	106
Date	April 28, 2023 12:02 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/131ppgm/do_men_actually_care_if_a_woman_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/do-men-actually-care-if-a-woman-is.1217429 https://theredarchive.com/post/1217429

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