How to use child subsidies to end the fertility crisis AND smash the gender roles people hate

Zombombaby · 2023-08-23T16:08:01+00:00

Okay, or we can make children more affordable so everyone can have them instead.

Ie, not having to dedicate ~75% of your income to housing costs. The unregulated food and gas prices constantly skyrocketing. Daycare is an entire paycheck and competitive to get into. Medical care and sick days are scarce and largely unaffordable. No social services and high infant mortality rates for American minority women is also an issue. As a Canadian, I got free house calls for the first month after my daughter was born for check-ups. I got a welcome baby package. I got a hotline number for newborn emergencies and questions. Etc.

That doesn't even go into the social issue aspect of men refusing to pay child support or be equitable partners when it comes to childcare. Most households have 2 working parents and yet one (largely women) is often carrying the entire or majority of the domestic labour load. And then women are blamed for choosing poor partners to procreate with (despite the fact I watched a lot of these same men beg and plead for a baby and make promises to share the load).

Now that women are being more selective (especially after being blamed for deadbeat daddies existing) that's a problem? Maybe if more men proved they were equitable partners then there'd be more women willing to become mothers. Sadly, that is often not the case.

Like, yeah, of course people are having less babies these days. How is this even shocking to people anymore?

crookedsummer2019 · 2023-08-23T15:55:22+00:00

How does not giving subsidies to rape victims for kids conceived from rape discourage rape?

MotherPermit9585 · 2023-08-23T17:46:33+00:00

If a society truly wanted to increase the birth rate, probably the biggest incentive they could offer would be free high quality daycare with early childhood education for all children as well as something like Medicare for all minors from birth to age 18. That would be very expensive though and there would probably be a lot of political opposition to increasing taxes to pay for it.

SianOiseau · 2023-08-23T15:59:33+00:00

Doesn't this system give women incentive to have multiple kids with different men? It doesn't seem to be a system encouraging people to have stable family units.

MarBitt · 2023-08-23T16:07:04+00:00

How does keeping children conceived by rape from receiving subsidies deter men from raping? It will only force women who get pregnant from rape to keep quiet about the rape and try to convince some man that the child is his.

Sessile-B-DeMille · 2023-08-23T15:28:38+00:00

The fertility crisis is that there are too many people on this planet and having a fertility rate below the replacement rate for the next century is a positive event.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-08-23T15:53:40+00:00

How will that smash gender roles? They're built on men having children in their most basic form - a woman cares for a man and their children, the man doesn't but works and plays instead and thinks he's doing a great job because he's "providing".

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-08-23T16:02:19+00:00

I thought this was called child benefit?

Smoogs2 · 2023-08-23T15:51:41+00:00

Direct child subsidies incentivize unstable households. Instead, what you need to do is incentive stable households and children. So you extend tax credits to married couples with kids - that way it incentives people with income. You do this via tax credits. This is the demo you really need to target specifically because they are the most likely to contribute stable taxpaying offspring.

Either make it so economically attractive to marry and have kids and a household via tax credits, or tax single, unmarried and childless people so that this demo is punished. Or a combination of both. Shanice and Vickie Lynn pumping out welfare babies to get more subsidies doesn't really help the situation.

All governments will do this soon.

The Nazis did it before ww2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehestandshilfe

The USSR did it after ww2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_on_childlessness

Germany does it currently:

https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/germany-initiates-care-reform-will-see-childless-people-pay-more

Japan will do it soon:

https://japantoday.com/category/national/japanese-government-wants-to-give-people-an-extra-%C2%A580-000-to-have-babies-but-will-it-work

Governments will scramble here soon to tax the childless and incentivize married stable households having kids.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-08-23T15:55:36+00:00

How will this smash gender roles? Also, define ''generous child subsidies''. Does this include free/affordable diapers and formula, does it include a guaranteed place in a daycare or a nanny if there is no available daycare? A discount or even free medication for kids, free glasses, braises, etc.? If the kid gets sick and the family has no insurance, will the bill for whatever procedure needs to be done be covered by the government? Largely talking about the US here.

Opening_Tell9388 · 2023-08-23T15:25:39+00:00

This sounds like socialism. I thought we though socialists are bad and we gotta get the commies outta here, around here?

lolthankstinder · 2023-08-23T16:21:22+00:00

You can’t legally force anyone to marry. This policy would encourage more women to have kids with ‘unmarriagable’ men and then just take advantage of the luxurious subsidies to comfortably raise the kids themselves. Meanwhile, the unmarriagable men would just be working their asses off to pay for women to raise their kids without them. Some women might even purposefully have kids just for the money and you’d end up with a lot of neglected “subsidy babies” getting born. As a guy I would not support this policy because I feel like it would be an absolute dream for misandristic feminists who are trying to reduce men to sexless, disposable, tax-paying semen donors. Fertility subsidy mustn’t incentivize the elimination of men/fatherhood from the equation.

educateddrugdealer42 · 2023-08-23T16:44:16+00:00

How about my counterproposal:

Tax people heavily for having children, inversely proportional to the parents' iq, and make injected or implanted birth control mandatory for those receiving welfare.

Your plan is a one way ticket to Idiocracy. This planet needs less children, especially from those who are prolific reproducers (i.e. morons).

RevolutionaryFig929 · 2023-08-23T18:00:38+00:00

In my country people get like 200 euro per child every month, plus depending on how high you income before taxes is, you will pay a good amount less taxes. Also some jobs (mainly state jobs), will pay extra salaries if you jave children. Schools and universities are "free" and there is a lot of other stuff, too.

Our birthrate is still some of the lowest in the world, and only migrant women are keeping it a little bit higher(and theres a trend that they adapt to local birthrate with every generation) .

Because peoples standards of living, more interest in work live balance, cost of living, 2 incomes needed etc.

The only ones that might be motivated are some of the poorest already living of social welfare (but even here I wouldn't be to sure)

ThorLives · 2023-08-23T15:55:16+00:00

Teen pregnancy has been declining for a long time. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/08/02/why-is-the-teen-birth-rate-falling/

What does subsidies mean? Like x dollars per month in free money?

This also creates bad incentives for poor people to have kids when they don't really want them, so they can get a check. (Admittedly, this is currently happening, since welfare pays extra based on the number of kids. But that's a problem too. I don't think there's an easy solution to that because leaving kids poor isn't great either, since it leads to other societal problems.) The reason that subsidies create bad incentives for poor people is because an extra $5k per year for rich or middle class people isn't much money relative to the cost of having a kid. But for poor people, it's a more money relative to their current income. So it's a bigger incentive the less money they have.

This was already tried on Romania. I heard that it lead to small increases in birthrates, but they were pretty insignificant. I looked up the law, and I think the child subsidy law was passed in 1993, but their birthrate continued to decline in subsequent years. This suggests that child subsidies won't have any real effect on birthrates. From a Romanian website:

The state child allowance is granted to all children up to the age of 18, Romanian citizens, without discrimination, as well as to young people who have reached the age of 18 and are attending secondary or vocational education organised under the law, until they complete their education. Children of foreign citizens and children of non-citizens residing/resident in Romania are entitled to state child allowance, under the law, if they live with their parents. https://dastgmures.ro/en/welfare-benefits/state-childrens-allowance/

TopNYJeweler · 2023-08-23T15:22:09+00:00

Men won't be able to run around and impregnate 10 women and have the taxpayer pick up the bill for all of them.

That is not happening as much as people assume. Chad is not stupid enough to do that. Chad is increasing hopes of women by fucking them, damaging them forever by keeping their expectations very high, but no children or family for them.

The only advantage of Chad was the genetic superiority, but now even that is limited by birth control, so you only have the bad of hypergamy and polygyny, without any genetic advantages.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2023-08-23T15:44:34+00:00

If we consider that only men as a group pay taxes this idea is so fucking idiotic you're throwing money away in the son of a possible single mother and those have overwhelming odds of not being succesfull members of society.

It's literally burning men money.

DoinIt989 · 2023-08-23T19:38:41+00:00

Declining birth rates aren't an issue tbh. The World is packed and probably at carrying capacity for a while.

The bigger issue is dysgenic fertility trends. Realistically we should be offering big bonuses to people who have college degrees and make 100k+, and encouraging sterilization or 1 child policies for others.

slazengerx · 2023-08-23T22:35:08+00:00

I don't see a "fertility crisis." I'm perfectly ok with the human population petering out over the next 100+ years. I don't understand the obsession with breeding and perpetuating the human race. If you want to have kids, knock yourself out. But I don't see the need to incentivize folks to breed.

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Over_North8884 · 2023-08-23T15:53:24+00:00

Social engineering

Safinated · 2023-08-23T16:47:45+00:00

Just child subsidies aren’t going to cut it without legal penalties/enforcement, which is also costly

Even if you had enforcement, men would never agree to give women freedoms that they don’t have

And it will have no effect on sex crimes

Lovers691 · 2023-08-23T17:19:43+00:00

This is a nice theory except it hinges on a few falsehoods, first most men aren’t impregnating multiple women in the modern era even among black people where they are more likely to have multiple kids by different mates, it is only 15% but for black women it is59%. In general women, have more kids with different partners than men. The next one is that for the most part incentives don’t seem to actually help with raising fertility it still goes down in the long term, although short term spikes might happen.

8m3gm60 · 2023-08-23T18:21:59+00:00

I don't want to pay for the generous subsidies on the first two.

AbsolutelyNobody0 · 2023-08-23T19:14:40+00:00

Nah, more government bureaucracy isn't going to solve this. This isn't to say government hasn't helped to induce this issue and that it can't help solve it, but the solution doesn't require more bueaucracy.

You're on the right track by going for a solution that creates certain incentives for certain behaviors, but it's going about creating those incentives in the wrong way.

MrBrittle · 2023-08-23T21:34:48+00:00

Why punish male rape victims?

luroot · 2023-08-24T01:01:50+00:00

There's 8 billion of us now, homey...high time for culling the gene pool and female sexual selection is a good mechanism for that.

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-08-24T02:59:39+00:00

" To avoid incentivizing rape and teenage pregnancy, no subsidies for children conceived by rape or by a parent under 18 at time of conception. "

Our justice system sucks too much for this one.

Title	How to use child subsidies to end the fertility crisis AND smash the gender roles people hate
Author	funnystor
Upvotes	0
Comments	154
Date	August 23, 2023 3:17 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/15z6td0/how_to_use_child_subsidies_to_end_the_fertility/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-to-use-child-subsidies-to-end-the-fertility.1229527 https://theredarchive.com/post/1229527

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