Women who wear tight/revealing clothing shouldn't get upset when men oggle them.

shoup88 · 2016-10-10T16:09:44+00:00

First of all, leggings and yoga pants are incredibly comfortable. Way more so than jeans.

I think that if you glance at a woman, or try and be subtle about it, no big deal. But ogling is just rude. Mindlessly staring at a stranger is breaking the social contract - this applies no matter what they're wearing. Yes, staring is not criminal. But that isn't where we draw the line for social interaction, is it?

Ultimately, I think your view is a little silly. Staring is not a criminal act, so it's "allowed". However, women looking disgusted in response is also not a criminal act, so why try and ban one without the other?

sunkindonut149 · 2016-10-10T20:27:25+00:00

Booty shorts are not comfortable. Skin tight denim on a hot day is not comfortable.

It's not denim, it's Lycra dyed to look like denim. It feels like I'm wearing gym shorts.

sofcknwrong · 2016-10-10T16:23:01+00:00

I like young men in skinny jeans. Do I look? Hell yes. Do I ogle, like some knuckledragger who just got let out of Juvie? No. Get a grip and learn to live in society.

Littleknownfacts · 2016-10-10T16:22:54+00:00

The problem is, who defines what's tight/revealing clothing and how would we stop men from starting at women who are dressed "appropriately"? Oh nothing, because you can't? I guess I'll just wear whatever I damn well please since there is literally nothing I can do to stop men from starring and cat-calling.

Just this past summer I did a cosplay of like a goth-victorian. Similar to this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qphVKRs_EP8/TSH0aqz-R4I/AAAAAAAAAMs/rMWafeWObRY/s1600/Top+Hat+and+Tears.jpg. literally covered up to my neck, poofy skirt to my ankles, but before you call me lewd for my exposed ankles, I was wearing boots. I received some of the most vulgar and disgusting comments on my walk to the convention center. And I don't mind usually, obviously I like the attention. But saying that dressing modestly is away to avoid attention is wrong, just wrong.

hiilive · 2016-10-10T18:59:03+00:00

What I hate about it is how anything goes once you have the hedge of "its more comfortable". Okay, I can't experience exactly what you find comfortable, but I also can't believe you're so stupid that you don't expect men to look. It's a strategic position where you can try to attract the guys you do like (who think it but don't say it) while calling the rude guys creeps. If you think you're just wearing yoga pants for comfort, would you not be weirded out by a guy that approached while wearing yoga pants himself? Or would you maybe think he was a weirdo and be like "yeah I get that they're comfortable but is it worth the way everyone will react?"

[deleted] · 2016-10-10T23:30:53+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Invalidity · 2016-10-10T16:16:03+00:00

If men oggle, they should not get upset that women yell at them.

Learn to fucking control yourself like an adult or get treated like a child. Either way, don't come crying to us because you are unable to control yourself in public.

wuboo · 2016-10-10T18:10:30+00:00

Lololol you think that women are only catcalled or ogled when they wear skanky or tight outfits? Oh boy. That not how it works.

Fatpantsmcfee · 2016-10-11T01:02:15+00:00

Burka's for everyone!

Methylenie · 2016-10-11T01:15:28+00:00

The problem lies with what is classified as ‘tight/revealing clothing’ that should be acceptable to ogle.

This video is a parody on the ’10 hours walking around new York’ showing a woman with a hijab. But their point still stands - men will ogle that hourglass shape, so basically need a hijab to hide that. As femininity itself is sexualized, it’s not easy to look feminine while staying in style. Sweatpants and loose Ts are unfeminine. Showing off part of that hourglass shape is intrinsic to female fashion, as can be seen in the challenge with ‘plus size’ models who don’t have that body shape. Some things may (types of cleavage) or may not (camel toes) be acceptable cultural/social norm and thus women may not consider these as sexualized clothing.

Of these googled images of ‘woman standing’ who shouldn’t get upset when men oggle them? And who in this image set has a right to be upset?

Do keep in mind that the line between sexualized clothes and non-sexualized clothes is subjective. The OP gave a list of examples, but already it’s interesting the OP put up ‘halter top’ but not ‘tight top’. Of course, I have less of a clue as to what exactly men find sexual, but that’s the problem! Not to mention the prettier/sexier the girl’s body, the harder she has to work to hide that.

In conclusion, the same thing applies to this as found in other social situations with ambiguous boundaries and norms, and when intentions are not understood. Women can’t help getting upset being ogled ‘too much’ as much as men can’t help finding someone attractive. So, a boundary is pushed, someone starts getting angry or awkward and then you back off.

ladyburner · 2016-10-10T18:00:25+00:00

I'm not disgusted by the sexualization, I'm disgusted by a grown man who can't control himself enough to adhere to the most basic social norms. Unless he has a mental disability, he should be aware of what our society considers respectful in terms of "noticing" versus "staring", and he should also be able to produce the minimum level of empathy needed to understand that in general, both men and women feel uncomfortable when they're being stared at. A guy who can't control his staring would make a terrible partner - you can't go out to a bar because you risk an altercation if he stares at a girl too long and her boyfriend notices, you have to worry that he won't be able to hold it together at his job if one of his female colleagues wears the "wrong" outfit, etc. That's disgusting to me.

midnightvulpine · 2016-10-10T16:50:44+00:00

There is a difference between being looked at and appreciated and being stared at in an uncomfortable manner. Which is what you mentioned. Staring. It's not illegal, but it is impolite. And people are free to badger impolite people for being impolite.

GavinSkulldrinker · 2016-10-11T00:46:11+00:00

Okay, everyone screaming about how this is limiting women's freedoms, you need to understand something:

Some women are stupid shitheaded attention whores who WANT to create this kind of drama. When men complain that women shouldn't get mad when men notice their revealing clothing, they're thinking about that time when a girl wearing a jessica rabbit top bounced up next to (or in front of them), and their eyes DARED to move downwards for a milisecond, and the girl had an absolute shitfit about her safe spaces, eye rape, and the like. When a dude they deem hot enough does it, they don't mind in the least.

I personally know a girl who has an "anxiety disorder," yet works as a bartender, and when she goes out to clubs (which she does, often), dresses like a Tim Burton-y goth stripper, and complains CONSTANTLY about how much she's "harassed" and oogled. There's nothing wrong with any of those behaviors in and of themselves (apart from when she uses "anxiety" as her catch-all excuse to avoid all responsibilities in her life) but what is wrong is screaming at men for LOOKING at her when she's wearing clothing that was designed for that EXACT purpose.

These women exist, and they hide behind "sex-positive" feminist rhetoric (its not particularly positive, really) so they can keep on being whiny immature attention addicts. And women who AREN'T on the identiy-politics train ALSO know these women, and hate them.

My point is, this is the perspective men come from when they complain about this. They're not trying to justify catcalling or harassment or stick women in burquas.

hiilive · 2016-10-10T19:15:17+00:00

Women should realize that if they are going to wear clothes that sexualize them that it is going to cause men to look. They should not get upset. If they do then they are stupid.

Oh, this is great! When are they not stupid to get upset? Where is the line drawn? And maybe, more importantly, who gets to decide? When is an outfit "ogle"-worthy?

I love that men are such mind readers that they always just seem to know when a woman wears something to get attention from men. Of course, this gives them permission to also decide weather or not she's wearing appopriate clothing for ogling, or if it's simply hot outside, or leggings are just comfortable.

I really am curious, you see, when am I not stupid for being disgusted by a man ogling me? How long do my shorts have to be? How deep can my neckline go? Does the size of my boobs matter? What about my waist? Can I wear crop tops? What's the difference between skinny jeans, leggings and jeggings? Can I get upset if a dude's ogling me when I'm wearing tights?

I'm wondering if you're really trying to say that, women shouldn't be upset when men ogle them, because women only ever go out to get attention from men, and if they claim they aren't, they're either stupid (but hey, all women are, amirite!) or lying.

Let's play a game! Here's a bunch of outfits, which of these women are allowed to be upset if ogled?

damaskrose · 2016-10-10T23:03:37+00:00

Every parent teaches their kids that staring is rude, regardless of the reason - whether it's because they're ugly, or because they're attractive, or because they're in a wheelchair or otherwise look "different". Western society considers it rude because it makes most people uncomfortable. Surely we can hold adults to the same standards of conduct as 8-year-old children?

[deleted] · 2016-10-10T21:48:54+00:00

I completely agree. Any mature person would realise that if you want to look sexually attractive which is why every woman wears make-up and sexy clothes then you're going to get people responding to the fact that you look sexually attractive, and are specifically trying to emphasise the things that make you sexually attractive. You might not be trying to impress men, but you're specifically trying to look more sexually attractive, and who exactly do you think is going to respond to that?

Are yoga pants comfortable? I'm sure they are. Why don't I wear them without shorts on? Oh right, because you can see the entire outline of my dick, and since I don't want people to see that I don't wear them. This is my own choice and my own responsibility, because I know that if I make it really easy to see my naughty parts that people are going to look. I find it so strange that lots of women can't get their heads around this. They can't seem to understand that it's ridiculous to say 'Hey, look at my ass' with their clothing choices, and then get mad when people actually do it.

You aren't dressing for you, shut up are you dressing for you. You're dressing for everyone else to see how sexually attractive you are, in one way or another.

drebunny · 2016-10-10T16:03:59+00:00

Ogle.

planejane · 2016-10-10T23:00:55+00:00

This is such a stupid, subjective question. What's tight/revealing, and who gets to decide that? In Africa they walk around topless. In South America, tribes walk around naked. In Saudi Arabia, women are completely covered.

Even within Western culture there's a spectrum. In the Midwest where I live, running shorts, denim shorts of all lengths, and tanks are pretty standard casual summer clothes. When I was in Europe, very few people wore shorts, and those who did definitely caught glances.

The cultures in which men have had a significant problem with the way women dress actually tend to have much more restrictive wardrobe expectations.

I don't see why it's so hard to just tell women they can wear what they want (within legal standards of decency). Men can respond how they want. Women can respond to mens' responses how they want. Long as no laws get broken who really gives a fuck.

rulenumber303 · 2016-10-11T10:27:15+00:00

Men who oggle shouldn't get upset at being sneered at in a way that makes them aware exactly how little their sperm is worth. shrug

Sandralees · 2016-10-10T16:35:41+00:00

Who cares if she gets upset? Shit man, when they give you "the look" wink at them. It'll either piss them off more, or they'll wonder about you. Either way? Its entertaining.

Of course, that's assuming you aren't really trying to get with her, because frankly the first response is the most likely.

SkentyDooBabble · 2016-10-10T20:17:16+00:00

Yeah no shit

This is a power game that high SMV women play

FlyKanga · 2016-10-10T16:27:42+00:00

So im confused, are you saying women shouldn't react if someone is continuously staring?

Or are you saying women shouldn't be oblivious to the fact some men they don't like checking them out will check them out if they wear this?

I agree with the latter, not so much the former.

[deleted] · 2016-10-10T20:26:17+00:00

Today I walked some stairs with a very nice ass staring me in the face, like legit one inch away from my face, belonging to some random girl. Why are you complaining? :D

InBaggingArea · 2016-10-10T20:28:44+00:00

I think what bothers women in this scenario is the implication that they are sluts.

Men, on the other hand, aren't bothered in the least by being ogled because they are sluts.

Praxada · 2016-10-10T22:37:01+00:00

As long as the person doesn't notice you are staring, all's good.

Edit: Saying you'll be ogled no matter what you wear is misleading. It's a bit like saying: "Unfit people will be considered attractive by others, therefore there is no difference in attractiveness between fit and unfit people."

hippydipster · 2016-10-11T02:22:00+00:00

We should re-introduce cod pieces to society.

MaK_Ultra · 2016-10-11T13:36:28+00:00

I wonder how this argument would play out in Hawaii. From what I understand, local dudes don't wear a shirt unless they are at work.

red-pill-man · 2016-10-11T16:24:04+00:00

I betcha Tom Brady and Brad Pitt have never "ogled" anyone in their lives....

HailMahi · 2016-10-12T03:18:51+00:00

Yoga pants and halter tops are actually very, very comfortable. Also, many dresses and shirts that show off cleavage don't necessarily require constant re-adjusting, it all depends on the cut and the overall design.

Let us also distinguish between staring and Staring, with a capital 'S'. Lower case 's' staring is normal. It's appreciating the view and last three seconds or less, followed by covert looks over your shoulder. We're human, we stare at things because our little mammal brains say we gotta. But, there is a societal expectation in the west that we will pretend to not stare, because paying too much attention to strangers is weird. This has been the policy for hundreds of years, with men taking covert looks from behind their newspapers at tantalizing ankle reveals as hoop-skirted women climbed in and out of carriages. Stare, with a capital 'S', is when a man acts as if his ability to stay tethered to the earth's surface is dependent on never taking his eyes off a girl's ass. This is not sneaky. The girl and everyone around notices and it will be super, duper uncomfortable for everyone.

manakiii · 2016-10-12T22:35:01+00:00

Women dress a certain way for whatever reason, not for men to look at them, women should not adjust their behaviour to fit the habits of some men. Ugly people shouldn't have to wear paper bags on their heads to avoid getting bullied.

Women dress the way they want because when people look good they feel good. Also yoga pants and legging look extremely comfortable.

KrispyMcSockington · 2016-10-10T18:01:54+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OBPaenkxdg

Ladies, just because you're dressed like a whore, doesn't mean you are one. But it is confusing as hell.

Women cannot claim ignorance when they know revealing clothing gets them sexual attention.

winterrider · 2016-10-11T04:21:11+00:00

Nobody should assault women but let's get real. If a woman is wearing a micromini skirt, she is wearing it because she wants male attention. If a woman is dressing like a stripper, she is doing this because she wants male attention. I see nothing wrong with checking a girl out who obviously wants men to check her out.

I personally am sick of many of certain deluded feminists. Yes, nobody should harass or assault women. Obviously. But if you are for example, working in a strip club or other adult establishment and dressed scantily, you are going to get hit on and men are going to check you out.

FatTaker · 2016-10-11T12:12:07+00:00

Social norms say that women can wear whatever they want, and also get mad at men for directing their eyes at them for too long. It's called manners, but it's just a feminist cultural norm. Other cultures have other manners. I don't see why this version is the best morally or the only logical one. Ever visited another culture and thought their social norms were dumb? Well, other cultures think the same about you. From the outside, it looks extremely dumb that western men are kind of impolite to express romantic or sexual interest in women unless they're at an alcohol-fueled party. It's almost like sex is unnatural and dirty and people must be wasted to be able to go through with it.

That being said, it's good to take a culture's norms into account when you interact with its people. That's just common sense. Avoid pissing people off. There is no need to follow the rules slavishly or internalize them, but don't disregard them.

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ArrantPariah · 2016-10-10T19:44:23+00:00

The older a woman gets, the less oggling she has to endure.

Ultramegasaurus · 2016-10-11T04:30:23+00:00

Everything depends on who is looking. They want men to look, but only the attractive ones.

If someone could come up with a filter that lets hot dudes see the girl in a slutclown outfit while ugly dudes see her in sweatpants and T-shirt, that someone would become rich as fuck.

despisedlove2 · 2016-10-11T06:34:09+00:00

Such women get upset when someone unattractive ogles them.

Title	Women who wear tight/revealing clothing shouldn't get upset when men oggle them.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	22
Comments	364
Date	October 10, 2016 3:56 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/56snu1/women_who_wear_tightrevealing_clothing_shouldnt/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-who-wear-tightrevealing-clothing-shouldnt.272496 https://theredarchive.com/post/272496

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