PSA for the ladies

[–]Transmigratory107 points108 points109 points 6 years ago (75 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (71 children) | Copy Link

[–]goldmedalflower29 points30 points31 points 6 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]shinypants1171 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]shinypants1170 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think you downplay how important having people believe in you can be, and having those around you call you a liar is incredibly destructive when dealing with rape. That, also, is just the tip of the iceburg. Accusers also experience literal threats on their lives. Look at Christine Ford. She received death threats and was relocated for safety. Accusers get isolated from friends who find their accusation shameful, embarrassing, or otherwise some negative term. It can even affect job opportunities or current employment. And, after all that, it doesn't even often lead to an arrest. Even being accused of rape isn't even necessarily a life-ruiner. Some accused just literally go on with no negative consequences. My girlfriends rapist, for example, experienced literally zero consequences whereas she dealt with so much harrassment by her and his families that she had a mental breakdown. They also accused her of being mentally unstable and threatened to have her children taken away. There's seemingly an infinite number of stories that accusers tell of the tragedy they experience when reporting. This also ignores the doubt, disbelief, and lack of care or compassion that come from the police themselves in the face of a report.

[–]shinypants1171 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Not being believed and being called a liar would be horrible for you if you were actually raped as i said in the first comment im not saying being raped isn't going to ruin your life im saying that falsely claiming it won't ruin your life and will in fact benefit you(unless your caught sometimes) if your lieing and people call you a lair im not very sympathetic and theres still other benefits to making your claim

Imma need a sauce on it effecting your employement i dont think a company fireing you or cutting your hours cause u were raped would go over very well although i have seen women use rape accusations to try and get career promotion and what country/time do you live in to think women are shamed for getting raped maybe in 1950 iraq but no way in hell that will happen in 2019 Colorado unless they think she is lying which again if she is then thats null and void and police should doubt you thats there job is investigating what happened not just believe one way or the other

And christine ford was a special case she wasn't accusing some random dude she was accusing a wealthy and powerful judge that had the most powerful political party in the country trying to push him into the supreme court as fast as possible he also had the backing of the most powerful man on the planet who has a legion of dedicated followers more then ready to kill and die for him you would've been better off trying to convict god himself yes its true wealthy and powerful people can easily get away with rape(or any crime) and punish there accuser's because they are wealthy and powerful if you were to accuse some dude who makes sandwiches for a living it wouldn't be the same

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]LatchNessMonster14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]insultin_crayon3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOW1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]insultin_crayon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOW1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]insultin_crayon2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOW1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]insultin_crayon2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOW0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AndiSLiuNAHALT-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jaktenba3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheWhitestOrca2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOW1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOW1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Tomatoccino1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OatsGYOW1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Tomatoccino2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]canuckpuckbeaut0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Domain_0f_Struggle0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Domain_0f_Struggle2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But what about the innocent people affected by the actions of the guilty parties? You're putting one above many. You can't focus on the innocence of one and ignore the rest. Here, let me give you a better argument:

Going to prison is going to prison is going to prison. It's unchangingly bad with long-term repercussions. Crime, however, is not crime is not crime. Having some pills isn't the same as rape, which isn't shoplifting, which isn't murder, etc. You get the drill. What constitutes "guilty" is just an infraction of one or more rules set in place. The life of an innocent person imprisoned wrongfully would generally be considered worse off than three petty theft offenders walking, but it's never that simple. If, for example, someone stole my folding phone case I use as a wallet, it would literally ruin my life. I'd fail to do my job today, breaching contract, strongly risking being fired. From that, I'd be driven heavily into debt and I'd lose my vehicle. I'd also lose my home, phone, schooling, everything. My life would be in shambles all from one theft. While not stigma'd like an imprisoned person, is not my suffering meaningful? And what about those lives I interact with who suffers when I do? Now, this is three times over (since it's three people walking). The total amount of suffering, the lives rocked and ruined, are they more or less than the one imprisoned? The imprisoned person, too, has lives that are impacted when his/hers goes badly. However, does it outweigh the aforementioned three?

It's not just as simple as "innocent man behind bars worse than three guilty walking" because so many more lives are involved.

[–]Domain_0f_Struggle0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Transmigratory4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Ok, let me explain this to you, because you apparently think you know what you're talking about based on a magazine link and not even the original study.

This magazine is propaganda. Fake news. Full stop. Here's what it says:

What we do know is this: False reports are rare, ranging from 2 to 10 percent of all reported sexual assaults. This figure comes from a commonly cited 2010 study, published in the peer-reviewed international journal Violence Against Women. This meta-analysis evaluated more than 20 previous studies and concluded that most misrepresent the rate of false reporting by not accounting for police departments' mistakes. (The researchers also conducted their own study, based on 10 years of reports at a single university—rare for a field that relies on Federal Bureau of Investigation data—putting the rate of false reporting at just under 6 percent.) "The greater the scrutiny applied to police classifications, the lower the rate of false reporting detected," study author David Lisak writes. "Cumulatively, these findings contradict the still widely promulgated stereotype that false rape allegations are a common occurrence.

Ok. There it is. Now, here's the fake news part where gullible people like you swallow propaganda whole to justify your fantasies about how you prefer your world to be, not how it is.

The study cited, by David Lisak, defines false accusations differently than the article.

Lisak defines it as: a report made to police that the police later prove to be false.

The vast majority of cases, where there is inconclusive evidence either way, is not defined as false. This accounts for almost 90% of cases. We simply dont know if they are false or not.

This shit magazine, thinking you're too stupid to read and understand the original study (they're right about that) deceived you into believing that false reports means all cases where an accuser lied about rape. That is simply false and was never the intention of the study. But you believed it, so, hey, the propaganda worked.

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

And that's where you fill the gap with your own agenda, yeah. I've read the report as well. As it stands, the information we have suggests a high rarity of false rape claims, period. We have what we currently have. You can't just appeal to ignorance and think you have something. You're on the basis that women are just manipulative and cunning villians rather than just normal human beings. There is an obvious inherent difficulty in rape claims, but just being on the assumption that they're just lying more and we can't prove it is itself absurd.

Do you have any other statistics to bring here? Like I said, this is what we have, and this is what we should be going by. Don't try to fill the gap of information with a fear that women lie about rape often. Considering how frequently women are berated, assaulted, killed, fired, publicly smeared, etc., it'd be considered economical/social suicide to come forward to tell the truth. It'd also be that much harder to shoulder that burden just to get one over. People do it, but they are rare as it'd take an exceptional person to think that worthwhile, or they'd have an exceptionally supportive network to protect them from the almost certain hostility.

[–]istira_balegina5 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Incredible to read. I dont know at this point if you're just a troll because of how insane your response just was.

Until now: you said the statistics showed women only made about 6% false rape claims.

I showed that was false, and that only 2-10% are proven false by police, only 2-3% are proven true in a court of law, and the rest we dont know about.

Now you seem to be agreeing with that premise without admitting you were spreading propaganda, but state that with the other 90%, which we dont know about, we should not fill in the gaps... AND THEN GO ON TO ASSUME NONE OF THEM ARE FALSE. In the same paragraph. Unbelievable.

Do you not see how dumb what you're saying is? Or do I have to explain it to you yet again.

If we dont know, we dont know. Full stop. Dont say we can't fill in the gap and then fill in the gap. Stop being stupid.

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not filling the gap with anything. We know what we know, so we should work with what we know. Don't implant your fears into what we don't know and think it proves anything. I'm not spreading any propaganda, nor am I at any point agreeing with that notion. It's not a full stop because we do have some research to work with and build off of. I explained the leap in logic a person has to have to assume it's a frequent occurrence in the first place, mentioned the common experiences people coming forth with rape experience, and restated that we don't know everything, but we know some. We can use simple and basic reasoning skills to see that it's an unlikely event anyhow, and be ready to adapt as new information comes in. There's no fake news except you saying fake news.

Not going to lie, but I'm not following this comment chain after this post. You're going to continue asserting what you want to believe, and I've said enough in response. Use whatever reasoning skills you have to come to whatever conclusion you want. If you want to just assume rates are higher because you think that literally risking livelyhood or even your (the accuser) life is frequently considered "worth it" to the person making a false accusation, then you do you.

[–]istira_balegina4 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm out too, because you're just repeating your false tropes and its tiresome and pointless to argue with an ideologue.

But for those who are reading this thread, I want to make one more point.

The research we currently have shows convictions at 2-3% of accusations made (Rainn). Proven false accusations are 2-10% (it's actually 11%, the 10 is another deceptive talking point )(Lisak).

This means the data on the two ends of the spectrum, the areas we know about, indicate a false accusation rate of 1:1 (2%:2%) or as much as 5.5:1 (2%:11%). Meaning, unlike the propaganda the previous commentator was spreading, the data we have indicates a most likely false accusation rate from 50 to as much as 87.5 percent.

Of course, we dont actually know, but this is what the statistics we do have suggest.

Peace.

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And you do it again. Here's your playbook:

Step 1: follow the numbers!

 --Numbers don't play out how you want them to.--

Step 2: ignore the numbers and use whatever logic makes me feel good!

Rinse and repeat.

[–]Jaktenba2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not sure if you're aware of what the accusers go through. It's no parade and relaxation. The reasoning the three times the real cases are false assumes that of all the victims who come forward truthfully to seek help and justice and face ridicule, social estrangement, the loss of friends/loved ones (not, like, by death), being fired, death threats, assault, etc., three times more would shoulder the burden just to pull one over on another person is insane. It lacks reasoning. It lacks any logic. There is no weighing of cost, no assessment of risk. I'm supposed to believe 75% of women are cruel and malicious beings (or intellectually challenged) because they can't see the obvious loss in that action or just don't care. That's absurd, and that attempts to fill the gap far more than anything I'm doing. I said that we have what we have. When we have more, we have more. Until then, we can use our thinky-thinks to try and guess the frequency until otherwise. The gap still resides, but I'd wager that the accusers are more truthful than not by a considerable margin because accusing doesn't even often result in the offender being arrested. Frequently dismissed due to alcohol, marriage, "being at the wrong place at the wrong time", the offender being an athlete...the list goes on. For how often the offender is apprehended, the accuser stands to often gain literally nothing. Personal example, friend of mine recently reported her cop husband of marital rape. She has her experiences, the testimony of her oldest son seeing the father carry her to the bedroom despite her constant refusals and pleas, the husband himself admitting he did it, and he still walked because he's a cop. She, however, faced severe harrassment by her and his family, almost resulting in her losing her home and children. But, I mean, I'm sure people shoulder the risks for shits and giggles, many more than actual victims.

[–]Jaktenba2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

People who aren't victims don't suffer from false accusations unless they are actually prosecuted.

Nobody is going to believe your anecdote, you claim the husband admitted to the crime yet not only did he not get charged, but everyone turned against her? That's the kind of thing you have to see for yourself to believe.

I could give you cases of men who have been falsely convicted (proven years later due to ignored evidence or a confession on the accuser's part) where the accuser suffered no consequence, even after the truth came out.

I also hope for your sake that you weren't referencing Brock Turner, considering that anyone who actually looks at the court transcripts would see there's no way you can convict him, and yet he did get convicted and had to worry about vigilante justice after serving his time.

[–]Transmigratory1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]I-wanna-GO-FAST5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Transmigratory1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Plz no cringy bloop citation of statistics with improper usage completely drained of critical thinking whilst being laced with intellectual dishonesty!!! That statement isn't meaningless, I made that statement in anticipation of what you were inevitably going to do.

You deduced 6%ish based on the link you sent and a PDF you didn't supply (upload it somewhere and link it)

Let's look at your link:

^{"But the} ^{one study} ^{that Stephens cites here—which relies on limited data—falls into a familiar trap among attempts to quantify false reports: failing to contextualize the federal government's often-unreliable data.}

^{Contrary to popular belief, there is no evidence that false rape reports drastically exceed those of other crimes—in fact,} ^{many researchers argue there is} ^{no clear academic consensus on false rape reports' prevalence,} ^{period. Recent studies have critiqued the literature on this subject for using unreliable data or unscientific methodologies.}

^{What we do know is this: False reports are rare, ranging from 2 to 10 percent of all reported sexual assaults. This figure comes from a} ^{commonly cited 2010 study}^{, published in the peer-reviewed international journal} ^{Violence Against Women.} ^{This meta-analysis evaluated more than 20 previous studies and concluded that most misrepresent the rate of false reporting by not accounting for police departments' mistakes. (The researchers also conducted their own study, based on 10 years of reports at a single university—rare for a field that relies on Federal Bureau of Investigation data—putting the rate of false reporting at just under 6 percent.} ")**^{The greater the scrutiny applied to police classifications, the lower the rate of false reporting detected,}**^{" study author David Lisak writes. "Cumulatively, these findings contradict the still widely promulgated stereotype that false rape allegations are a common occurrence." "}

Your 6% appears to be derived from the "10 years of reports at a single university—rare for a field that relies on Federal Bureau of Investigation data—putting the rate of false reporting at just under 6 percent.)". Is the data at said single university going to give us a completely accurate picture? And the study author is a mess.

On one hand, he says that the greater scrutiny applied to police classifications results in LOWER RATES of false reports being detected. On the other hand, he says that false accusations can't be common.

The section where you got your 6% even says it doesn't account for police departments' mistakes. And the meta analysis looks at 20 studies in an area that academics on the subject matter have criticised for using unreliable data or unscientific methods...

Emily Moon, the writer, pointed these things out then still went on to overlook these things (like you seem to have) and just said "false accusations aren't common". When really we cannot be sure due to the unreliability of data in this area. Looks like to me that you just found an article, skim read until you found a stat you thought you could cite then proceeded to cite it without regard to the wider context.

Now my comment "you can't say for certain" has even more strength. If this link is representative of the evidence you'll use, then you're purposely being dishonest by claiming there is more certainty than I'm implying. I mean, you didn't even think beyond about the practicalities e.g. some woman accuses a man of rape... what are the chances she'll get caught and how will the police go around catching this lie out when they're investigating the guy? That false accusation would STILL destroy the man's life.

The absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence...

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I feel like I addressed this in another comment. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, I never at any point said this was the end all, be all study, but it's some of what information we do have on the topic. This, paired with the social/legal/economical ramifications with rape accusations (true or false) do not lend itself to a high rate. Shit, the 6ish percent it suggests is still high to me, but I can believe it. It takes a real dysfunctional person to do something so cruel, but real dysfunctional people exist; they just aren't in any way a large percent.

No matter the percentage, false claims do ruin lives. However, pushing the notion that mose claims are fake will hurt more than hinder. We need more effort and attention on these claims so they can be investigated properly as opposed to being so frequently dismissed. This also means that the accused stay accused without any judicial redemption. It also obviously harms the victims of rape and sexual assault because it further discourages them from coming forward in the first place. This ultimately protects the offender and perpetuates the notion of "fake reports" beyond the low percentages that we currently have.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. The absence of proof for false rape claims being common doesn't mean it doesn't happen. We do have some evidence suggesting otherwise, though. We'll never have perfect information of anything, which is why I said the response was meaningless. We have information to look at, accept the limitations of, and build off of. As it currently stands, statistics and simple logic just don't support the notion that women would commonly commit social/legal/economical (and in some cases, literal) suicide with false claims. It makes sense that only an exceptional crowd would take part in such destructive behaviours, just like only an exceptional crowd take part in various other severe anti-social behaviour. It's just not a rational conclusion to make nor is it worth the risk, and that's the same defeating set of risks that deter sex assault victims. It's that much harder for the liars. The absence of evidence is on the side that asserts common occurence of false claims. Just saying something exists doesn't mean it exists because we can't 100% prove it doesn't. By that logic, we could say that any and every claim is true because it can't be proven otherwise.

Sorry for the book, trying to cover all thoughts while having an irl convo. Dealing with a lot.

[–]Transmigratory0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Transmigratory0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Transmigratory1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]khaste0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kurogomatora0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AndiSLiuNAHALT1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Filthy_Stuff_G0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]762RiflemanNeither58 points59 points60 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer58 points59 points60 points 6 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]Crazy_ManMan 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Consenting to vanilla sex is not consenting to any random kink. They key here is communication, just ask if they are okay with things before sex or at the very least before doing it to them. When in doubt talk it out. It does not have to be awkward or ruin the mood if you do it in a sexy confident way, and lying about something or intentionally withholding information you believe is important to them to get them to agree to sex is also not consent. Also pay attention to body language if sex is going great and they suddenly get all tense and seem uncomfortable in some way, just ask if they are okay and ask if they want you to stop. Maybe it is just me but I feel like making sure the other person is comfortable and enjoying the experience the whole time is important. Also aftercare is another important factor, make sure they feel safe and comfortable after going through any kink that may have caused some sort of discomfort to them.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Crazy_ManMan0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ashaw74 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]oct0_t1t0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ashaw70 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ashaw70 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ashaw70 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]I-IV-I64-V-IAsexual/Aromantic8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-10052 points53 points54 points 6 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]iLiveInAHologram9413 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Throwawayforshitt 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1005 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

I went on a date with a girl a met online. She informed me of her sexual inexperience, and how she wasn't a big fan of sex in general. We had talked for several weeks leading to us exchanging nude pictures, and of course the date itself. The date went well, we both abstained from substance use as I was partial to alcohol and she preferred 420. Her friends told her she shouldn't date me because I was honest about the recent death of my at the time girlfriend, but also jokingly coaxed her into putting my name in her phone as "Dick Appointment."

When we got back to my place, I don't really recall setting up the mood, or pretending like we were there to watch Netflix or something. I believe I just moved right into heavy petting and kissing. I would make attempts at touching her under her clothes, and she would use her hands to rebuff me, but with minimal force. She 100% did say "No." and "Stop," but it was her tone that made me believe it was still consensual. She used what I would describe as a "bed room voice." Because she never took a hard line " I mean it!" or "If you don't stop I'm going to hate you." I believed it to be a bi-product of slut shaming, I felt she wanted it but didn't want to be judged. It also felt like we were playing at this almost role play esque dominance for power.

I pinned her arms down, so she couldn't prevent me from taking her clothes off. There were clumsy moments we're I needed both hands to take off an article of clothing so I would have to release her pinned arms. Instead I would press my body up against hers to block her hands. When I was finally inside of her, I didn't move, but instead asked "Do you really want me to stop?" To which she replied "No." I wanted her to stay over, but she insisted she had plans. I tried to continue dialogue with her but she got weird. She then accused me of rape, via text message. I replied with something along the lines of "Yeah, Im that much of a piece of shit? I'm a rapist, I guess I'll kill myself then" She retracted her statement because of this.

I thought in a similar manner to this post for a long time, it took an educated person explaining to me the contra points to make me realize, yeah I could have done more. She could have done more as well, to prevent the outcome, but its her job and journey to learn that, I'll just continue to do my part.

[–]WaterOnMyHood 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1001 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I tried to paint it fair to both perspectives. Whats dumb is I was actually interested in a relationship with her, it wasn't like I just wanted sex. I guess I was just dumb and fast forwarding to the level of comfortability and familiarity I had in my previous relationship. That relationship definitely impacted me. I was with a victim of sexual assault who based their entire identity around that tragedy. One of the first times we attempted to become intimate, she felt more comfortable being the dom so I was the sub. We had both been drinking, she put me in handcuffs and gagged me. She attempted to mount me, but wasnt wet. So she undid the cuffs and said something along the lines of "Oh well, I guess it wasn't meant to be." Once free I grabbed lube, and basically wrestled her for the position of dom. She was rough, but I liked it. I was close to actually being inside of her and she stopped struggling and said my name, followed by "If you do that I will never forgive you." in an authoritarian tone I stopped immediately.

Sorry to get 50 shades here, but the point is sexual dynamic can be very weird and multi layered, especially in this point in history with highest levels of gender equality. Everything was fine and a game to me when I was in handcuffs and gagged. I didn't feel unsafe, and I enjoyed not having responsibility or having to be the driving force for intimacy. I didn't think when I traded dynamics with her I would make her feel unsafe, and she wouldn't like it. If she wasn't assertive in that moment I probably would have accidentally raped her, and that breaks my heart.

[–]varenimailfile 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1000 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]varenimailfile 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1003 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WavesAcross4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

See you are the kind of person I have a problem with, you are a utopanist with a bias. You read all of what I said, never picking up any new perspective from the other side, just looking for the things that confirmed your own bias. Ive already admitted it was wrong, but why do you want to rub my nose in it?

Well obviously I didn't use enough force to bruise her delicate victim culture skin, like wise she didn't use any counter force to have the same effect. Did you even read the part about slut shaming? And instead of "No, stop your so bad, Im and innocent girl." how about "I'm feeling uncomfortable with this, can you please stop."

Right my mistake, woman don't have any responsibility to adequately convey consent or the lack there of. It's a mans job souly to interpret them, make sure they don't drink beyond their limits, confirm constantly with that they feel safe, and equal pay, yay feminism.

50 shades of grey has sold 125 million copies, author female, demographic largely female. That book glorifies rape/abuse culture, and you don't have a problem with it. Instead you have a problem with a guy sharing a story about how he was wrong and how he learned from his mistakes. Maybe my mom would have taught me if she wasnt from a generation that it wasnt even acceptable for a woman to be in a mans home under those context, maybe my father would have taught me if he was around. Nope trail and error it is. Sorry.

[–]WavesAcross2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

You read all of what I said, never picking up any new perspective from the other side

Your perspective doesn't matter. You may not have thought in the moment that you weren't raping her, but you were wrong.

Did you even read the part about slut shaming?

Irrelevant. She said no and you had to hold her down. It was rape. If she was both verbally and physically telling you no. So you should have stopped.

Right my mistake, woman don't have any responsibility to adequately convey consent or the lack there of.

She did. She said no and was physically trying to stop you. How is that not enough?

It's a mans job

That a women doesn't express her no in a manner you find sufficient does not give you and excuse to proceed anyways. If she has said no, then yes, it is your job to ask before going any further.

yay feminism.

People like you are exactly why feminists are proponents of things like "teach men not rape" or "No means no" or "enthusiastic consent", because apparently men like you don't get it. If you had held to those rules you wouldn't have raped her. If you honestly think her reluctance might not be sincere then stop and ask. Why is that so difficult?

That book glorifies rape/abuse culture, and you don't have a problem with it.

No. I agree the book is bad, but even there they discuss consent and go over their limits and such. All that said, even if its does promote bad norms, what people fantasize about excuse your behavior. There are safe ways to engage in such play but making an assumption on the part of the other party isn't it.

[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You know I'm helping to raise a 6 year old little girl. I may not be the best male role model, but thankfully I don't share the burden alone. I try to help her with some of the issues that will effect her negatively in later life. The biggest one by far is her picky eating. I've done extensive researching trying to figure out how I can get her to eat new foods because her mother has given up and just caters to her food choices. What I found is that the way I'm suppose to handle it is very similar to prom night rape. You know where a horny young guy constantly pressures his high school girlfriend into having sex even though she expresses that she dosen't want to. I'm suppose to hear no a thousand times from this little girl, so that eventually she can say yes and eat some dam broccoli, but I cant stop asking her, and I cant force her either.

Ive incorporated the ideas that I've read about into my own method, Ive made her a food journal were we chronicle all the new food she tries. I usually illustrate the pages, and she colors them in. When she wants things from me I leverage her filling out a new page in her food journal first. I am happy with the results, and even more happy that she's taking on new food options.

Basically, you want to change all of the worlds men to tailor to the needs of the woman, but don't feel that woman need to do anything that they should just be accepted. Thats why I call you a utopianist, and other people online have probably accused you of man hate. Yes I think its harmful to shout "No means no in the streets" like brave warriors, but when its actually happening you wanna use your soft sensual voices? Hello your obviously beings raped, why are you still saying no sensually? Where the fuck is your picket sign?!

Ive already explained to you that no one taught me how not to rape by this generations standards, but you didn't listen. My mother came from a different generation were a woman being in a mans home alone under those context would not have been acceptable behavior. I've also seen my mom being such a strong woman my whole life, very assertive, so a soft no was probably hard for me to comprehend at the time. The only insight she gave me is now harmful to me because its now obsolete and out of touch with times.

Agree, I will teach my son how avoid accidentally raping, and my daughter how to avoid accidentally being raped. If my daughter has intentionally been the victim of rape I hope she does fight back. DNA under her finger nails, scratches on his face, bruising on her wrist so that piece of shit can go to jail. If she was drugged, Toxicology report. If she drank too much and there is no eye witnesses, and her friends abandoned her in the buddy system, empathy, cause thats all I can give her. Enthusiastic consent is a weird one though, like what if the girl is manic, and she's consenting. Shouldn't I wait for her chemical balances to return to normal before she can properly consent? Its almost like it should be treated as a case by case basis.

Have you read 50 shades of grey? Anastasia constantly sets boundaries, grey violates them every time. If woman view that book as sensual and arousing, thats part of the problem. "Woman want to be taken." How are you teaching men not to rape again? Your just promoting 2 conflicting ideas at the same time, and then are mad when men don't have the intellect, emotional intelligences, or insight to understand, I mean most woman probably don't either, sexuality is extremely complex.

Lets go back to psych 101, freud says there is ID and there is Ego. If the ID of a woman says she wants to have sex, but the ego says she dosen't want to be called a slut, she dosen't want to seem easy, she wants to wait longer, what do you think that looks like? It looks half assed in both directions. I'm against slut shaming, I'm against toxic masculinity, and I play by the rules of consent, and worked hard to fully understand them from both perspectives. Unfortunately you didn't ask me why I felt what I did was wrong, or what I learned from it. You attacked me and called me a rapist, and so I defended my self and were back to square 1, thanks fairer sex.

[–]WavesAcross1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

very similar to prom night rape. You know where a horny young guy constantly pressures his high school girlfriend into having sex even though she expresses that she dosen't want to. I'm suppose to hear no a thousand times from this little girl, so that eventually she can say yes and eat some dam broccoli, but I cant stop asking her, and I cant force her either.

Uh, you do realize that in the case of prom night, you can and should stop asking her? Like, I guess they are similar sense that you are pressuring people into doing something they don't want to do, but do you realize that one is bad, and one is okay?

Basically, you want to change all of the worlds men to tailor to the needs of the woman

I haven't said anything about women because I am talking to you and not her. Yes, I would agree it would be good for women to be more explicitly assertive and mature about their desires. However that they fail to does not excuse your rape.

Ive already explained to you that no one taught me how not to rape by this generations standards

So what? I agree you didn't understand that you were raping her. I'm still not sure you understand you were raping her. That doesn't make it not rape.

Its almost like it should be treated as a case by case basis.

Your making progress! Yes, it should. There is no perfect one size fits all rule. You should evaluate it on a case by case basis and do your best to to deal with it with maturity. However in this case, as often will be as a man, more of the onus as is on you. If a women isn't very explicit about her "no" towards your escalation she isn't doing anything to you. If you escalate with out an explicit yes, then you are potentially raping her. So yes, the party escalating bears more responsibility.

Have you read 50 shades of grey? Anastasia constantly sets boundaries, grey violates them every time. If woman view that book as sensual and arousing, thats part of the problem.

No. Its not. Look, for an analogy lots of people LOVE zombie fantasies. Look at all the video games and movies and tv shows. Few people would actually like to be in a zombie situation in real life.

"Woman want to be taken." How are you teaching men not to rape again? Your just promoting 2 conflicting ideas at the same time, and then are mad when men don't have the intellect, emotional intelligences, or insight to understand, I mean most woman probably don't either

Taken != Raped. I agree many people don't have the emotional acuity to deal with sex in a mature manner. The difference is that the if the party not escalating, is not reasonable, and the other party respects their stated "no", then the end result is: Nothing happens. If the party escalating does is not reasonable, the end result is potentially rape depending on if the other party is into it. The ideas aren't in conflict, they can just be tricky to navigate, but if you can't see a clear course then don't proceed. Why is that so difficult to understand?

If the ID of a woman says she wants to have sex, but the ego says she dosen't want to be called a slut, she dosen't want to seem easy, she wants to wait longer, what do you think that looks like?

I agree it can be confusing. But here is a little trick to avoid raping people. If your confused, then don't do it. If your not sure if she actually wants sex or not, then try to be very explicit about it. This shouldn't be very difficult.

Implicitly what you are trying to ask is "How do I have sex if I can't be sure if the women really wants it?". Well the answer is, YOU DON'T. If you can't clearly figure out, either due to your own actions, or that of your partners, whether they really want it, then don't do it.

You attacked me and called me a rapist, and so I defended my self

You shouldn't be defending your self. You should be acknowledging that it was rape. It was not some "morally grey" situation. There was a clear, and obvious thing to do in your story. STOP. You did not.

[–]Rebel-1001 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have to say, this is the first reply of yours I actually liked, gives me hopes for arguing over the internet with strangers lol, though maybe its only because I've humanized myself in your eyes.

The point of my original post about a man who was unsure of his actions instead of hiding them or writing them off, he questioned a multitude of people about it. Large demographic of both men and woman. Maybe because the people knew me it was harder to imagine the other person feeling treated or coerced by me. One female friend of mine who was a victim of rape, even expressed "Thats not rape, I was raped."

I wrote the post in a manner that captured both perspectives to more easily relate to men who might have thought they were the victims of "Regret rape." I do believe I raped her, and I never said I didn't. Even If I was able to talk to her now and she told me It wasn't rape, I still wouldn't feel right about it.

I already said what adjustments I can, and have made to make sure it never happens again, aka doing my part.

Anecdotally I use to fantasize about being in a zombie apocalypse a lot as a younger man, It's horrible but I really felt I would thrive in a world like this. I felt modern society was strenuous and bureaucratic and really wasn't a place for a person like me. You would maybe not do so well in this type of world, so maybe thats why you believe people would not actually want it, which is actually an example about you putting your perspective as an absolute for everyone.

It's harmful because woman who are aroused by a book about a man dominating them, and raping them via withdrawn consent normalizes that behavior.

One issue I have with using rape as an umbrella term instead of specifying and categorizing specific sexual misconducts lessens the impact of the word. People become desensitized from to the word from hearing it so much. No one ever takes murder lightly, but people can some how take rape lightly, its because of the varying degrees. I can be on a sexual registry for public urination. By the definition put forward by woman, I as a man have been raped twice by 2 different woman. I'll tell you more about it if you would like to weigh in on wether or not I was actually raped. Statistics like 1 in 5 woman on college campuses have been the victim of rape, is horrifying, but then you realize they include consensual sex with woman who have partaken in any amount of alcohol.

It was rape via coercion, I did not intentionally mean to make her feel threatened, but I understand that she could have felt threatened which could have lead to her agreeing to sex, just as to not to be violently raped.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPerson2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]insultin_crayon2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPerson-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]insultin_crayon1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnActualPerson1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1001 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JameisBong-3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JameisBong1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ltrfsn25 points26 points27 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]simmingslytherin2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GiftOfBlackKnighting 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]inkybreadbox4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]disposablepurplepill-2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]762RiflemanNeither11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]boomcheese4427 points28 points29 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]robogart4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]U_feel_Me17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]thundrthy13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]U_feel_Me 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demiansky6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I think this is a good point. People can be driven into a temporary mania when they are dealing with extreme emotions. Doesn't mean they are 24/7 "crazy." Imagine a woman consenting to sex, it goes rather badly with her expectations not being met, the guy brags about it to a few of his friends, said friend calls girl a "slut" and it gets back around to her. She's humiliated, depressed, angry, etc. Most of all, she feels used and worthless. Now imagine she has her gender studies professor whispering into her ear about how "1/3rd of all women will be raped, all men are rapists just waiting for the chance to rape, etc." Not hard to imagine how the story can be refurbished and revised in her own mind.

I think at that moment she feels a similar impulse to a lot of Incels. A lot of incels would rather feel rage than shame. A lot of women who have really bad but consensual sexual encounters would rather be perceived--- by herself and others--- as a "poor, poor victim that everyone will have sympathy for" rather than "the slut that let herself get used and thrown away like a soiled condom."

So then the accusation comes, and it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle even after that period of intense emotions starts to subside.

[–]nonpenishaver1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I think at that moment she feels a similar impulse to a lot of Incels. A lot of incels would rather feel rage than shame. A lot of women who have really bad but consensual sexual encounters would rather be perceived--- by herself and others--- as a "poor, poor victim that everyone will have sympathy for" rather than "the slut that let herself get used and thrown away like a soiled condom."

So you're literally saying it's womens fault for "letting" men treat them like garbage, not mens fault for BEING garbage.

This is the reason why man-hating is on the rise. Not because of some liberal university professor "brainwashing" us.

Edit: Also I don't feel bad for the guy in that scenario. He wants to spread rumors about a girl that will ruin her reputation when she did literally nothing wrong. But feels like a victim when she does the same thing to him? Lol. Scrotes can die mad.

[–]Demiansky2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

How did you get that out of what I said? What made you think I was feeling bad for the guy? Why does everyone need every situation to be bifurcated into "the righteous, righteous victim" and the "evil, evil perpetrator." It's perfectly possible for a naive woman and a jerk boy to hop into the sack consensually--- and having a bad experience--- without it being rape. And if the case I illustrated above happened, then yeah, the woman would be culpable for the negative outcome of feeling bad about it afterward. If you don't want to burn yourself, don't put your hand on the obviously red hot stove.

The guy in my example was obviously being a douche "bro," but just because a guy has sex with a woman and doesn't call her afterward (despite the woman expecting it) doesn't mean he raped her. And herein lies the problem. We want to punish douchebaggery with execution, which is why we're see saw such a backlash to MeToo.

[–]slim-D251 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]doesntpostnuttin-2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (104 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (84 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman-3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (83 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago* (72 children) | Copy Link

[–]FrigidShadow9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]crybb4201 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]762RiflemanNeither6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GiftOfBlackKnighting31M - Red Jesus Pill2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (46 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]whiskeybent_txn11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]whiskeybent_txn4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]whiskeybent_txn1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rus93841 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon6 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.

Some people drink too much but didnt expect their body to react how it did. I remember the first times I ever drank and didn't know the limit. I was 16. I still didn't understand how much was too much when i started college even though i drank less. I was 17. Within the first 3 months of college I learned a few things.

If youre taking medication, 4 drinks is too much
Shots are dangerous
Blacking out is dangerous because you drink more
Accepting drinks with "absinthe" in it is a terrible idea
Letting guys make you drinks is a terrible idea
Trying to keep up with people who are bigger than you is a terrible idea
Drinking fast so you stop minding the taste of alcohol is a bad idea
sugary alcohol is the devil

ETC... At some point, you connect the dots and just go "Welp, looks like drinking to get a LITTLE drunk is just a bad idea in general since all judgement just falls out the window." And thats how i became the lameass who doesnt drink.

I spent some dumb times at 16/17 trying to be "cool" and hold my liquor. It wasn't in the stars for me. And never was, a decade later. I dont drink and if i do it always just suddenly skyrockets. I had a work Xmas party last year and its the last time I'll ever drink that much. It's just unfortunate For Me, but I'm terrible at holding 5 or more drinks.

[–]robogart8 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon5 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon4 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]robogart4 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon7 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]robogart3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wasn't generalizing, in a way I was saying that just because someone gets too drunk doesn't simply remove everyone else of their responsibility to be kind to their fellow humans. It's true that many men , who have trouble otherwise obtaining casual sex, specifically seek out ultra drunk women. They are creepy no matter what. Many guys who are able to get casual sex without the women being really drunk have no reason to bang a girl when she's ultra drunk. Of course it's a generalization, but even an inexperienced guy might be too eager to jump at the chance to bag a drunk girl. Of course I do not blame them because sex drives are strong and a super drunk girl can be very reactionary. Drunk people have lower inhibitions and couple that with too much to drink, the inability to make rational decisions and many women would sleep with men they otherwise would not have. Guys know this and shoot their shot with said women. They could try to keep it in their pants if they can tell a girl is too drunk, just like she could have tried to not accept the shot that tipped her over the edge, but our instincts and desires for sex and social acceptance are overwhelming. I don't blame men but if they ended up sleeping with a woman who was ultra drunk I'd like them to explain their honest feelings regarding it. "I was horny and she seemed willing" makes sense, "and I ignored the fact that she had no idea who I was and couldn't walk without holding onto me" .. I mean, she could have protected herself from the fate by not drinking so much, but it's not like he made a rational sound choice either. The reason to sleep with an ultra drunk girl is because you're horny and she's available, end of story. Many guys have trouble finding available women for casual sex outside of drugs and alcohol. It's kind of their way to have an opportunity they otherwise would have lacked. Anyway I'm rambling but the point being is sex is an action caused by two people and each is responsible for the sexual encounter. Men don't need to be so naive to think ultra drunk isn't potentially synonymous for not able to consent. Most just don't care.

[–]BigFatMoggyEejit3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon7 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BigFatMoggyEejit1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BigFatMoggyEejit3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BigFatMoggyEejit1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]robogart1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]robogart1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]robogart2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Teflon081911 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Teflon081911 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tomatoccino2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KeineFreundin458drug-addict scumbag thieving con artist1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Jesus christ, is that a serious question?

It is an issue and it does come up. You know, I got to witness this irl. One friend (male) got drunk with another friend (female). Both drunk. She was getting sexual with the guy (just, like, on the couch in the open). Another drunk female, in no way involved, comes over, strips the first girl, and begins to go down on her. All parties drunk, was the second girl in the clear to do what she did? There was no prior consent in any way (as the first girl repeatedly clarified the next day and for years afterward) and she had never shown interest in the second girl. Does being drunk absolve a violation of autonomy?

No. If two drunk persons consent, then there's consent. Still hazy because consent under the influence isn't really reliable, but it's there. If there is no consent, then you don't just assume it because, "hey, she got drunk. Her fault." That's rapist thinking to defer responsibility. Don't hop for opportunities when people are drunk, high, etc. It is a risky move regardless as inibition, critical thinking, and focus declines. Shit, even Austin Powers rejected a girl he had interest in because she was drunk. Be like that.

Edit: tldr: no unless no consent was given. The lack of consent defines rape. Don't be a knob. You know what I said.

[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This sounds awfully like, "they chose to do a drug, so they chose addiction." That's not how it works. Getting drunk doesn't warrant getting raped, period. You being too drunk doesn't give me the rights to run that anus out because you never gave consent. Blaming the drunk moves responsibility off the person violating autonomy and onto the unconscious. The same could be said for if you fell asleep, too.

Honestly, I'd say it's the fault of the marketing and tobacco companies who advertise, associate, and encourage smoking despite the risks. If people could just not do self-destructive things, they would. However, psychology spits in the notion of free will because there is none. We are driven by extrinsic and intrinsic motivation, emotions, and our cognition, by what we experience, learn, and our current situation. Advertisements and marketing take advantage of those vulnerable for profits. Also, I'd say that they didn't choose the lung cancer; they chose the associated de-stressing factor of cigarettes. In general, the comparison doesn't work, however. Tobacco factually leads to cancer without consent because it doesn't deal with consent at all. Aging leads to cancer, too. So does too much sun. However, there is no causal link between being asleep or drunk and getting raped. That requires the predatory action of another individual to compromise a person's autonomy.

And that's fine.

[–]robogart1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You’re right getting drunk doesn’t warrant rape, what I’m saying in relation to 2 people start off flirting and drinking.

John in Jane meet at a bar as John buys Jane a drink to spark conversation and to place his interest up front. Jane talks with John and to Johns understanding she is feeling him as much as he is to her. John asks , “ hey would you like another drink?” Her reply as follows is yes and the cycle continues. Now as alcohol lowers inhibition she starts flirting and touching on him (for sake of example both are equally drunk) and he takes her home where they drink more. She claims “rape” because she didn’t plan on sleeping with the guy after she realized what had happened, but the guy (of no malicious intent) wasn’t aware she didn’t want to have sex with him as she kept leading him on throughout the night. Then who is at fault? Be mindful the male had no malicious intentions.

You are completely right in reference to our biological nature and the market taking advantage of those, but I will say you are wrong in regards to having no free will as humans.

The cigarette example is used to explain responsibility and fault. Smoking increases risk of cancer and let’s say for the sake of the example you smoking lead to said throat cancer who is at fault? You can’t blame the market entirely if the warning was there, yet knowing the consequences the person continued.

At the beginning you said if they do the drug they chose addiction. I feel that is fair, if opioids by nature are addicting and you do the drug would it not be your fault for taking the drug and therefore becoming an addict.

Also note I am taking out several variables like genetics, frequency and amount to explain my point in the essence of core responsibility.

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's not rape, then.

I expected you to deny the notion that free will isn't real. No, I'm fairly confident it's not real. Neurology, Psychology, and Sociology are all fields of study about how human behaviour and cognition are manipulated and affected, how little we actually control. How do you explain people who don't always make the best decisions to every event or problem in their lives? Do you think they're willingly suffering?

You can blame the market and the advertising. Regardless, no one chooses to develop cancer. No one smokes and thinks about how cool it'll be to struggle to breathe and undergo chemo. But, people do use substances for stress management, to socialize, to manage depression, etc. They don't "deserve" cancer as a result. Also, these things aren't equivalent. Smoking and cancer isn't alcohol and rape.

No one chooses addiction, either. As mentioned earlier, there's a large variety of reasons people use substances, none of which are ever things like the desire to develop cancer or addiction. This should, honestly, be a demerit for free will to you. If they could just do better, why don't they?

[–]robogart1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I understand where your coming from but from what you said, “Neurology, Psychology, and Sociology are all fields of study about how human behaviour and cognition are manipulated and affected”

I agree humans can be manipulated and influenced, but I do also believe people have free will. People don’t make the best decision because of lack of wisdom and discipline. Yes I believe most people suffer willingly if they are in good health. Example do your homework or watch Netflix? People would rather watch Netflix vs our homework even though we know doing our homework is more beneficial. Eat a salad or eat pizza and most people would rather eat pizza.

I agree in regards to the market tapping into out most inner desires. We have the option to resist these desires through willpower and discipline.

People don’t do better because we would rather do things we desire that tap into our biological reward system. Why have it later when I can have it now.

Your right you don’t choose addiction it’s physical and psychological, but to do the drug or the substance in the first place is your choice

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]robogart1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OmarsDamnSpoon2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Free will is a decision uninfluenced by any other factors. Nothing controls or sways your choice, it's just your decision raw and unfettered. The issue is that once you have a cause or reason for a decision, it is no longer an unimpeded and "free" decision, and it then becomes cause -> effect, aka determinism. Free will conceptually is chaos, with everyone behaving with no rhyme or reason, and with no predictability. Patterns would be mere coincidence, and every action anyone makes will be as impossible to predict as the first. This, obv, is inconsistent with what we see and experience.

Not having free will doesn't mean we wouldn't face consequences, as that is a way of teaching, a manner of discipline. If someone commits murder, they didn't just have a clean objective thought of, "Hey, imma murk someone." There are always background factors that lead to it. However, they will still face consequences because it is unacceptable, and they need to learn otherwise. Think about it: how do we reason out a decision? That's all education, experience, and the pokes and prods of biology alongside the immediate situation. If you're behaving shitty, it's as a result of some failures in the general things mentioned earlier. This, of course, is super summarized. I hope it's coherent.

[–]U_feel_Me0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]U_feel_Me1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]BigFatMoggyEejit1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm saying there's always two sides to the story and neither of them are fully right. I'm not claiming that they're both equally valid, or that the division is 50/50. Just that it's impossible for person A to know what person B is going through, because person A doesn't have person B's mind and vice versa. In the case of regret sex that's not rape, that is. I dont think that statement applies to actual rape or false rape accusations. I'm talking about situations where two people who didn't intend to hurt eachother end up having sex, and one or both people feel like shit afterwards. If that is the situation both sides of the story certainly have their merit and neither side is fully aware of the others perspective

To say it is always between the two narratives accomplishes nothing except a vain attempt to make the author of said statement look smart by appropriating a mechanism that smart people use which is to synthesize competing narratives. Except it doesnt make you look smart because your statement is false. It is simply not true that truth always lies in the synthesis of competing narratives.

You read into the statement too deeply. I never claimed any of this. You could have asked me, do you think this applies to all situations? Like of course not, lol. I'm not "trying to sound smart" at all. Or failing to sound smart, because that's not my intent. The internet is full of men who lack empathy for women; it's also full of women who lack empathy for men. Both want to point the figure at eachother, resolve themselves of blame and responsibility. But when two people make a series of actions and choices that lead to them having sex, there's going to be two sides to that story. Neither of them will be fully right. Because neither person really is able to empathize with the other ; their perspective is muddied by their own perception.

Sometimes one person is telling the truth, and the other is telling complete crock and bullshit. This is not complicated.

Yes, of course. But I'm not talking about situations where one person is lying and making shit up. But in the case of blackout drunk sex, maybe the woman can't remember the prior night. If you wake up without memory of the prior night in someone else's bed naked, you might be questioning if you were raped. That's still a legitimate perspective! Ive never had that situation, as I've always come to in the middle of the sex act, but I could not recall the actions leading up to the sex event. Also, because I really love sex, having sex wasn't a bothersome event. However it did teach me that obviously I can't hold my liquor, and I think it also taught me that men are horny and lack as many opportunities as women for casual sex and will literally jump at the chance to have sex. There have been other stories ive read where women cannot react , they can't fight off the sex, they're frozen..I can't understand why guys would think it's perfectly ok to have sex with a woman who is unresponsive but not unconscious. You know the kind. The ones who would just lay there but you have to take off her clothes, open her legs, lift her up etc. Of course a guy who is having sex with a really drunk woman is going to skew his side of the story to resolve himself of culpability. Of course a woman who got stupid drunk and was unable to communicate her consent is going to skew her side of the story to resolve himself of culpability.

I think a lot of times I see two arguments - men arguing that they take no responsibility for sleeping with a super drunk woman, and woman arguing they take no responsibility for getting so drunk to be unable to consent. I believe neither of these perspectives are fully right. I think the man could have stopped himself from having sex with an ultra drunk woman (if not drunk) or stopped himself from drinking so much that he was unaware of his actions (if drunk.). I also think the women could have held off on the drinking and stayed in right mind. But there could be some honest mistakes made. Maybe the woman convinced herself she could handle 2 more shots without blacking out. Maybe the man convinced himself she doesn't seem that drunk, and made no attempt to test that hypothesis. That's because what our inner minds desire takes presedence over rational decision making. So both people will have their desires, both people have made mistakes, and both people ultimately made decisions that lead to them having sex. The point of explaining the viewpoint of a blacked out woman is because men don't get it. They think it's complete crock and bullshit. But the women don't get why the man's sex drive takes presedence over humanity? They're both valid! Imo. The desire to fit into a crowd of people who are drinking heavily could be just as strong as the desire to have sex, and therefore, take presedence over rational choices like "not drinking until I'm beyond the point of consent" and "not having sex with a woman if I suspect she is unable to consent without testing the hypothesis". You can tell when someone's really drunk, if you really look. They could be walking and talking but look at their eyes. Listen to their words. Is what they're saying coherent? Are they registering the actions of what's happening around them? There surely are ways men can know if a woman's too drunk, just as surely as there are ways woman can know their limit and not blow through it. But we make mistakes, we are human.

[–]istira_balegina0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I think I explained pretty well but the short of it is, there are signs a person is "too drunk" to give proper consent. There are signs, obvious ones. Maybe not in every instance, sure, but I'd argue if you're drunk to the point of "black out" you probably are not able to give "enthusiastic consent" (unless you simply are). I do think a lot of times, a Man will see a super drunk woman, and just "slide" into that situation, she's probably unaware of what is happening, and is just reacting to inputs. If he took a step back, and tried to discern her true interest in having sex, she may react with disinterest. Men would rather not take the chance of her being disinterested and will push forward for sex, and she will not resist accordingly. It's the lack of resistance, and mere reactionary behaviour that signals she is is probably not in the right state of mind. Especially if she's never spoken to you while sober. And doesn't know who you are. Again, men dont care. Well, they may care more now, because some men have gotten in trouble for this. Men would like to write their behaviour off as "she wanted it" or "he didnt know", but theres a chance that is just a cover-up for the truth.

To be honest though, women should really not get shitfaced if they don't want to wake up with an unknown man. It happens. I can't speak for how I acted when I was blackout, but I highly doubt i Instigated sexual encounters. I know I wasn't coherent based on second hand observations. But alas; ultimately, I fixed MY behaviour, I did not feel "violated", because I understand Men Want Sex. And it's not easy for Men to get casual sex, and alcohol makes it a lot easier, and a man who is a bit drunk/tipsy, probably isn't thinking "OMG is she consenting??" he's not thinking. His dick is thinking. So he takes her by the hand and leads her someplace. It's not like the Man is automatically evil for following his base instincts; likely the women was also following HER base instincts. The problem then lies in people vilifying one side of the equation and lacking empathy. Society listens to women more, but Men yell louder on the internet, so I just want to set the story straight. Y'all both are responsible.

[–]istira_balegina0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Do you deny the possibility that people can get drunk, enthusiastically consent, and then wonder the next morning wtf they were thinking?

No I don't deny this.

And in some cases, have so much internal conflict or guilt that the only way they can rid themselves of that dissonance is to convince themselves, entirely falsely, that they were taken advantage of?

No, I do not deny this.

In this case, I'd be surprised that the Woman in question did not think to try to determine what happened the night prior. How her level of consent was, if she was instigating / entusiastic, etc.

I don't DENY this as being a possibility. I just also think that some people don't "Black out" without having very obvious signs of their lack of awareness. I think its possible to "brown out" and be enthusiatic and stuff, but once you've reached a "certain point" you cannot be sure of how you acted, I'm sure if you were able to observe yourself it would be obvious you were shitfaced.

People don't get shitfaced and act normally. It's just the truth of it. Men might take advantage of the situation - not the person, so to speak - which means that the woman feels violated because if she had been there sober overlooking she would have interjected.

Ultimately, I dont think the man has broken laws, or behaved unethically, and i think the woman has no right to seek retribution for the actions. However, she does have a right to wish that in life Men could hold themselves to higher standards and as a precaution against that she has to do her job of ensuring she does not get into a vulnerable state around men.

[–]istira_balegina1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're misunderstanding what I mean. Of course there's no way to know if someone is "blackout" or not, but if someone has consumed so much alcohol that they are "blackout", it's likely they are acting Drunk. But not a little drunk, like Really Drunk. Slurring words, saying crazy things, behaving irregularly and out of character and so forth.

In this example, lets take two scenarios. Scenario one Girl A has a friend Girl B, and Girl B remains sober throughout the night. Girl B observes Girl A get crazy drunk and intervenes when Girl A is being lead off to another place by Random Guy because Girl B knows Girl A. Girl B may argue with Girl A for a bit, similarly to how you may argue with someone who is drunk to give up their Keys to not go in the car. Next day, Girl A is grateful her friend essentially Cockblocked since she wasnt in right state of mind. scenario 2 exists, there is no Girl B. Guy doesn't know Girl A well enough to know her level of intoxication. So he takes her home. But he knows she is drunk. At least that much is clear.

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]sadomasochrist2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]sadomasochrist2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolon1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]daniellederek8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]PickUpScientistMaroon Pill3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]khaste0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]istira_balegina-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]KickButtMario3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KickButtMario-3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

LOL that's kinda funny. Yeah the whole "state-sponsored girlfriend" trope is a meme in incel communities. Basically their point is that the state has gone out of its way to give women the resources of men when they can't get a man to do it for them (aka taxpayer funded welfare for single mothers), so the natural converse of this is for the state to give them girlfriends. Though really they should be getting sex robots 😂 I'm personally in favor of society (not legal, but social) encouraging younger marriages. This trope of "being true to your feelings" and marrying only for love seems to be disastrous in practice.

I think a lot of women are perfectly willing to use whatever means necessary to get what it is that they want, up to and including emotional manipulation via rape accusations. My own sister did this in High School. Also it was the whole plot of To Kill a Mockingbird. There's a reason we don't convict people on the basis of what a single person says.

[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

Well, that’s a stupid point then, isn’t it?

The government gives poor families money to feed their kids so I get to rape someone! Fair’s fair!

I think a lot of people are perfectly willing to use whatever means necessary to get what it is they want. There are some pretty trash ladies out there and there are some pretty dbag guys. We can’t say for certain that all of them are bad solely based on their genitalia because that’s not how anything works.

I’m sorry that you seem to have had some bad experiences with the bad kind of women, including your sister, but generalizing an entire gender based on your few experiences is pretty silly, right?

I knew a guy in high school that murdered his girlfriend. It’s also the plot of many movies. I don’t think all men will or want to murder their girlfriends though because that would be stupid.

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but you still mistrust men as a part of those experiences. You can't help it, and I wouldn't expect you to not be affected by it. And where did you get the impression that I thought all women lie about rape? I just said that you have to take it with a grain of salt, because she might be the shitty type that would lie about something like that. There's nothing wrong with generalizing, as long as you don't let it stop there and don't let the generalizations override the individual. Obviously you don't convict someone of a crime over generalizations.

Anyways most incels I've talked to want to be loved, and want nothing to do with rape. Many won't even buy hookers because they want it to be out of love, not obligation. So the idea that the joke was about rape is dumb. That's the point, it's the black pill at work. They know nobody will voluntarily love them, so they want the arranged marriage (unless you're one of those people who believes that all arranged marriage is rape, in which case you'd just be ignorant).

[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Arranged marriage isn't rape. Rape is rape. Also it's not like you have to be assigned a spouse with zero input on your part in order for it to be arranged marriage. It's more like you're presented a series of options and pressured into one of them. And if you want to go down the rabbithole of counting people getting "pressured" into situations that they might not have chosen otherwise as "rape," I'll be happy to go right down there with you and point out how our modern western "free love" culture pressured a lot of girls into choices that they would not have made without the external pressure. Or how a complete lack of training and pressure can also result in highly self-destructive behavior and choices out of pure ignorance (wasn't that the argument in favor of sex education in schools?) Frankly the heavy external involvement in spousal arrangements would probably be a godsend to many people, if the rising divorce rate and subsequent falling marriage rate is any indication. Call it "spouse education" where we'll give out object lessons with vegetables and latex to middle schoolers, then pass out mutual compatibility scores for students to give to their parents.

You're a completely westernized female incapable of even seeing things from the perspective of the people who live immediately around you who are sexually frustrated. How can you expect to be able to see things from the perspective of someone living in a completely different culture, and pass that kind of judgment on it?

[–]PickUpScientistMaroon Pill4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]goldmedalflower2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HumanSockPuppetEqual-Opportunity Oppressor5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]whiskeybent_txn0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart-2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]SpankKing_6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corvus_Uraneus0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]rainisthelife 1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Some more incel and MGTOW tears 🤣

Lol you were so pained about our post on FDS, you followed me here to give your pained response? Wow what a loser hahaha. No greater proof that what we’re saying over there is correct. You’ve had no one, and you have no one. You’re a chronically sexually rejected failure who’s fresh off his latest dismissal from the many women he’s tried to get with.

A cuck that many women use for money and discard swiftly after. Your pain and tears about that post actually proves the truth about it. And we’ll continue to engage in these tactics because we’ve realized, that despite your triggered blabbing, that this is what works. And the only thing “accurate” about all of this is your own stupidity.

Your opinions are just as irrelevant as your life. Don’t forget to cry yourself to sleep again tonight!

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial-4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (71 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (51 children) | Copy Link

[–]762RiflemanNeither15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial-5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

There is no nuance.

Yeah there is, and if you know what’s best for you better learn it. And quickly

You're trying to make it into this "mysterious" thing that only you understand, because in reality it's just something you decide after the fact based on how you feel.

Whelp if a rape happened I’m going to feel raped, naturally. So like I said in the OP, “regret sex”’is something rapists and terrible sex partners came up with. If someone walks away from a sexual encounter with you and it’s even questionable you need to evaluate your whole life. Because if it’s not obvious she’s enthusiastically participating then you got problems buddy.

oh he didn't react the way I wanted him to? It was RAPE!)

Yeah when you don’t react to clear signals to stop it’s called rape. When you decide sex is going to happen without signals to proceed it’s called rape.

[–]randomizer3000 1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]randomizer3000 1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

If you think that’s why the sub exists, You clearly don’t understand it. This is not a femcel sub. Plenty of us have had committed relationships, even with alleged HVM (gasp!) and they ain’t all they’re cracked up to be. Society has been selling us the lie that “living happily ever after” with a man is the key to happiness and value but actually it’s just free domestic labor for the state and a way to bully us into fucking some of these incels so they don’t destroy the place.

It’s all a lie, it always has been, and we’re tired of doing this thankless shitty work for men who spend their time plotting how to terrorize us and hate us for breathing. God forbid we have children with one of you and it doesn’t work out and you all can easily absolve yourselves of any responsibility and point fingers at single moms for all of society’s ills.

You hate us for fucking too much, you hate us for not fucking you enough, you hate us when we have your children, you hate us when we forgo that and live single, you hate us for being attractive, you hate us for being ugly, and you hate us for getting old, and you hate us when we’re young unless you think you can have sex with us, but then you hate us for that too because “hoes”. There is no stage in a woman’s life where you don’t hate us for existing. Are we about done here?

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh give me a break. I avoid women because of shit like this. I've had just enough experience with women to know that being straightforward usually does not work, and that was enough for me to get the f*ck out of there. I'm not going to dance to your fiddle and give you the unbridled power to ruin my life should we ever have a falling out and you turn out to be batshit crazy. I'm not stupid enough to think that I have everything figured out. Especially not the arbitrary rules of female feeling and empowerment. Women will f*cking say "no" when they want the guy to keep going. That shit is messed up.

Look, either rape is the forceful extraction of sex from some clearly saying no, or we sign contracts before every sexual encounter. If she doesn't say no, then it's not rape. If they didn't sign contracts beforehand, then it's sin (aka the marriage contract). This other stuff about nuanced consent, affirmative consent, etc is just a bunch of red herrings around the fact that all sex outside of a commitment is just generally a horrible idea.

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]jayval901 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]762RiflemanNeither5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval904 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammies1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Narxxxx1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]762RiflemanNeither1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammies0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]762Rifleman1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Paranoidexboyfriend7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Paranoidexboyfriend7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]randomizer3000 1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Paranoidexboyfriend4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Paranoidexboyfriend2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]robogart3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Why are women fucking men they barely know? And traumatized from bad sex? Please. If the sex was bad, she's equally to blame.

How many times do we have to tell you that 9/10 your rapist is someone you actually know? Get it out of your head that this happens because of randoms bar hookups.

So she never gets drunk, has beer goggles and fucks a guy she otherwise wouldn't? Alcohol never removes inhibitions? Because what you're saying then is that women knowingly choose to go off with strange men, risking their safety, and then want to complain when it doesn't pay off. That sounds an awful lot like entitlement.

Only if she is clearly too wasted to consent and the man coerced her there, or is violent with her.

Are we always guaranteed positive experiences, especially with people we barely know?

It should at least be neutral. No man should be so violent, inconsiderate, disrespectful, abusive, pushy, and uncommunicative that a reasonable person would walk away feeling assaulted. But all you “females are just holes” types think treating a woman as disrespectfully as possible is part of the thrill.

[–]guccimaneslawyer0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AddictedToHentai690 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]skinny_gyal0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]aussie-weeb0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cryatthedisco0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModeratorBiased Against Humans[M] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Luke-the-camera-guy-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've come to the understanding that this meme is essentially women(or anyone) who had bad experience with men( or anyone tbh) during sex who feel a sense of regret ( whether that be because he other was a bad lay or because they feel like they were taken advantage of in a time of what they now perceive as a vulnerable state), is not meant to be read as a statement of "bad sex/regrettable sex = you raped me". Like if any of you people here has a SO and they want to talk to you about how they haven't been enjoying sex with you as of late or feel like the times you do have sex is in some way affecting them negatively, you wouldn't assume "my lover is accusing me of rape" ~~because that's what asshole reactionaries do, .~~

I'm assuming you would want to listen to their grievances or here them vent out their frustrations due to such incidents and then go from there on how to handle future interactions. Similar to how u/i_have_a_semicolon mentioned below, yes you are partly responsible for the decisions you made that led to this outcome but lets not act like your emotions towards the are invalid or that the other party could have had more compassion because "this wouldn't have happened if you simply didn't do this/simply stated your mind"

That's just me I guess, I could be wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–]Tomatoccino-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]werewolf28140 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Kennah03-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Comments

THE SOCIAL JUSTICE FOUNDATION

Title	PSA for the ladies
Author	Jammerjamhams
Upvotes	447
Comments	352
Date	October 19, 2019 5:31 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/dk6vl2/psa_for_the_ladies/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/psa-for-the-ladies.291797 https://theredarchive.com/post/291797