Feminist privilege. | MensRights

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Was that #notallwomen ?!?!

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what do you mean how could a man contest fatherhood? The same way every other man that has contested father hood does it. Are you kidding me? You make an obvious and open statement to the woman, you hire a lawyer, and then you man up.

I'm not dumb. In fact, when I learned this in law school, it wasn't that big of a deal to almost the entirety of the class. As a would be father, you have the absolute right to contest it. And, if you have any questions, why shouldn't the would-be father contest it?

Moreover, you're acting as if the mother lays a trap upon some unsuspecting man without his absolute consent. The dude is showing up, putting his name on the birth certificate, and taking care of the kid. That man is not only implicitly agreeing to take on the duties of fatherhood, he's also explicitly doing it. Why should the man then be able to turn around after legally saying, "Yes! I will be this child's father!"

[–]Celda1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

what do you mean how could a man contest fatherhood? The same way every other man that has contested father hood does it. Are you kidding me? You make an obvious and open statement to the woman, you hire a lawyer, and then you man up.

You didn't read what I said.

How could a man contest fatherhood if he was deceived and thinks he's the father? Why would he hire a lawyer to contest fatherhood when he thinks he is the father?

Obviously, he can't contest fatherhood unless he learns that he's been deceived.

Moreover, you're acting as if the mother lays a trap upon some unsuspecting man without his absolute consent. The dude is showing up, putting his name on the birth certificate, and taking care of the kid.

Yeah...because he thinks he's the father. But, he was deceived. It's one thing if a man knowingly adopts a child. Then he's agreed to be a father. But if a man is deceived into thinking he's the father, then he hasn't.

This is obvious..how do you not get that?

[–]chinachinachina32 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Celda1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]chinachinachina32 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The deception is irrelevant because a man does not have to be the father to legally take on the father roles. This is the crux of the issue. There is no where in the legal system requiring a biological relationship between a child and father in order to gain the rights, privileges, and duties of parenthood.

Anyone can simply trust a partner... or a man can require testing. It's his legal right to require proof. The law should not allow a party to prove fraud when that party has actively stood up and proclaimed that they're the father.

And, this happens all of the time in law. There is a timeframe to bring a case, claim an objection, file an appeal, present facts, offer testimony, etc. After the deadline passes, there isn't a second set of rules available because we feel bad about individuals in a case. Typically, the legal system doesn't allow two bites at the apple.

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you think the rights of the kid supercede anything done by the mother or the rights of the dad..

Makes sense to me, since the child is the one in this situation by the least degree of its own action. Being the least contributing to the situation in which they find themselves, they're entitled to have their interests weighed the most. Additionally, adults can profitably work and children typically cannot (and anyway shouldn't, since they have school to go to.) The harm to an adult of having some of your income confiscated to provide for your children is quite a bit lesser than the harm of being a child in poverty, so again, the interests of the child outweigh.

that's not how a justice system works, one persons rights can't override anothers

That's exactly how a justice system works. When people come before the court with competing, legitimate interests, the purpose of the court is to negotiate the outcome where the balance of conflicting rights is just, not the one where it is equal. My right to freedom of speech is balanced against your right not to be defamed in public. My right to my own property is balanced against your right to be made whole for your injuries. And so on, dozens of examples.

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[–]Abiv23 18 points19 points20 points 9 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

So, you completely missed the point of that article.

It states that Judges are still using 'the tender years doctrine' in their decisions.

Despite the fact it was found to violate the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

To recap, a doctrine that was found to be unconstitutional and biased against men is still routinely used in family court decisions...that proves bias against men in family court

The second issue in the post (fathers tricked into raising kids who aren't theirs) I didn't provide evidence for because it's easy to find...here's an article claiming 1 in 50 in britian are raising a kid who isn't theirs...it might not be an epidemic but even one instance is too much

If you require me to further connect the dots for you my post is saying, "Men are unfairly biased against in family law, one example being how paternity fraud is handled".

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Hmmm. Interesting - I wasn't aware that a mother could put a child up for adoption without informing the father. What court case have you seen this happen in? I would have always assumed a parent would be given rights to raise a child long before an adoption would be accepted but perhaps you can shed some more light on this?

Abortion is a unique case because men don't have to carry a child. In what situation would a mother get willingly pregnant and then willingly have an abortion? Is there a high instance of men out there dying to have kids that find these women also willing to have kids but then the women just decide unilaterally to abort?

Or... is it just the disparity of the situation that bothers people? That's a tough one. Because it's their body, this might be one situation I agree with you that they have more rights than men, but I can't really fault them for it either.

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https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/paternity-registry/396044/

In order to assert their rights a man needs to "need to create an account and enter some basic information about themselves and their partners, listing the child’s place of conception, its race, and its approximate date of birth".

If they do not know the conception took place, they cannot do that can they?

"From a birth father’s perspective, however, there’s a significant problem: Hardly anyone knows that these registries exist. They aren’t advertised on billboards, park benches, subway cars, or in the men’s bathrooms at bars and restaurants. When asked about their advertising efforts, most state offices of vital records point to their websites or to pamphlets made available in their offices."

If they don't know these registries exist in 33 states and they have to do the steps above, they can lose the rights do have if they know she was pregnant.

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What's hard to understand is why you don't want to face the fact that when it comes to reproductive rights, women have more than men. You try to explain it away with but the mother is legally obliged to take care of their children. No, even after she has multiple chances to legally opt out of parenthood she can still get everyone else to help pay for it. Fathers have no opportunity to opt out and rarely get custody. Mothers get custody by default and fathers have to fight for it, they do not start out on equal footing. If dad hopes to win custody he better have lots of money and be able to prove she is an unfit parent.

When fathers do get primary custody, they are less likely to get child support and the state is less likely to pursue the deadbeat mother to the same ends that they pursue deadbeat fathers. If a father has enough money to win custody though, he probably doesn't qualify for government assistance.

You are being dishonest here, I am done.

[–]blewpah1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The only chance that a mother has to legally opt out of parenthood is abortion. There isn't any reasonable way to provide that to a father though, obviously her having a child or aborting one because of the father's wishes doesn't make sense.

That's unfortunate, but it's just a fact of life.

When it comes to adoption, mothers can put their kids up for adoption when they are single mothers. If a mother put her child up for adoption without the knowledge of the father she'd get in a lot of trouble, maybe be charged with kidnapping or some such thing.

I haven't argued against all the stuff you're saying and I don't disagree with it. Courts are certainly biased against men when it comes to parenthood. But that's not what I was talking about.

I was arguing specifically against the assertaition that women just somehow get off scott free from responsibility when they have a kid. You're the one who started turning this into an argument about a lot more than that.

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My coworker recently got a divorce, she works 25ish hours a week at a yogurt shop. She's 35, done nothing with her life and her engineer ex husband is now paying for her apartment while he keeps their one child EVERY weekeday and every other weekend. The divorce was because she cheated frequently for years.

I know this is a divorce example so it's a little different but that bitch only has the responsibility of laundry. And I'll be damned she even has the fucking audacity to complain about laundry. She's the kind of person that "works out" at the gym for 3+ hours while the kid is in the day care center. The kid is in 2nd grade now, plenty old to be pissed about sitting in day care for so long so frequently.

Update: it actually just occurred to me that this was not an official divorce. Both of them were under the assumption that an official divorce would make him lose half his salary to her and this was the compromise. Take that as you will

[–]brewksy -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

My god I despise these anecdotes. Trust me on this: your co-worker is not telling you the truth. He's feeding you bullshit so you'll side with him - divorce is NOT as simple as he is telling you it is.

For example: I work at a bank. Want to hear my anecdotes? - opening letters from the government every day demanding money from customers that refuse to pay child support even though it's a very small part of their income - listening to customers brag about how they hid a bunch of money in the divorce so they don't have to pay as much for their kids. - calling their spouses sluts or bitches when I can't even stand talking to them for more than 2 minutes because they're busy checking out every teller in the bank that's half their age.

Guess what? All those customers are guys. Don't let some anecdotal story about some hard-luck engineer paint your whole picture.

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Forcing women to have children is more preverse than selective service.

There is ZERO net benefit from forcing births. Actually, studies of communist Romania showed that the forced births INCREASED crime and poverty.

Selective service is not something anyone wants, but it is for necessary for protection of a state. Putting women in the military by force harms the nation FAR more than forcing men.

And that "alter their lives for nine months" bullshit is so ridiculous I don't know where to start.

First you have to rape the woman. Or forcibly inseminate her, so the sexual assault is necessary. This is not something every man has happen to them in he military.

Then she has to bear the child, so bodily harm is necessary. Not all men have to get hurt to serve, though some do.

Then she has to raise the kid for 18 years minimum. When you serve in the military you get fucking benefits you fucking moron. You don't have MORE financial obligations. Just stop. This argument you're trying to make work is just plain idiocy.

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[–]haveacigar42000 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

For the love of Christ.

Your first source only stated that a majority of people preferred the man to be the breadwinner. They gave no statistics, it's just stated that a simple majority are in favor. They gave no analysis on the change, and just implied that there hasn't been much change.

Second source stated that a majority of women prefer the man to be the breadwinner, which makes sense seeing that so many women raise children. That source also stated that women make up 47% of the workforce, which is a huge change over the last 50 years.

I didn't bother with the third source because it is 17 years old. There are people that have kids now that were not even born when that was written. It is outdated and you seem to be missing my point that the Assumption of the male being breadwinner is diminishing.

Can you answer my question? If women are not concerned with providing for themselves then why are more of them going to college? Why are more of them completing college? How is this possible when there's a smaller pool of women to pull from? Many women have kids and can't go to college. Man sometimes can't go to school because of their children, but less often than women. Why are they outperforming us on Higher education? This indicates that young women want to provide for themselves more than previous generations. Why are you not seeing my point?

[–]chamclouder1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If women are not concerned with providing for themselves then why are more of them going to college?

That's not my position. My position, which is backed up, is there is an expectation for men to be the primary breadwinner, to make most of the money for a household. Society doesn't not have this expectation of women. They can pursue any pay level career.

Why are more of them completing college?

Because more women are being admitted to college. And more are being admitted to college because we have school system catered towards girls, that starts in elementary school. It appears boys underperform primarily due to how teachers treat and grade them. The evidence also suggests that when classes are geared towards boys' typical learning style, the boys perform better than boys in co-ed classes. Female college grants are also a thing.

http://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/webAdmission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20Walling%20Dec%202004.pdf

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It means 'to soften or make seem less unappealing'.

So yes, I know damned well what it means. The mainstream media will bend over backwards to mitigate any god-awful thing a feminist says.

What the fuck were even thinking, writing this?

Edit: /u/MorganPOW, I want you to fucking answer for this, because it emblematic of everything wrong with you people. There are indeed two possible ways to read what I said--one of which makes sense in the context, and one of which does not. You purposefully chose to pretend that I HAD to have meant the one that makes no sense...instead of acknowledging the one that did make sense. And that seems to be completely in keeping with the way your side is acting here--dishonest, purposeful misinterpretation, saying idiotic things and then just relying on the fact that there are more brigaders here than honest actors to downvote me and upvote you.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you and those other people are just complete fucking retards who don't know a goddamned thing about the English language. That may very well be the case. But either way, it's something you should let the rest of us know.

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No, you're just here to be a sperg and trash the place. I don't care how many autistic feminist upvote you, you're just here to shit up the place.

You have no valid criticism whatsoever. This isn't about the actions of feminism--it's about the mainstream media never once criticizing feminists or feminism, the way they do every other idea.

If you want to disagree, find me a mainstream media article written since 2010 that is legitimately critical of feminist ideas.

I've asked this of a lot of you, and all any of you do is downvote...while pretending not to know what I'm talking about.

Edit: Nevermind. You've alreayd chosen to deliberately misread OP. You've instead chosen to argue about other aspects of it, because you know damned well that feminism is treated as privileged by the mainstream media. That's not remotely deniable. So you and your scummy, asshole friends just ignore that part of it altogether. Because you're scummy assholes, and dishonest shit like that is what scummy assholes do.

Mods: this is why you have to ban people when this shit from /r/all hits. Because if you don't, it emboldens the brigaders to ignore any actual arguments made, and just rely on superior numbers to silence everyone else.

Do your fucking jobs, for fuck's sake. you mods are the reason this sub is such shit.

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Are you suggesting that feminists are different online than offline? I met plenty when I took a couple women's studies classes with my bisexual friend. The shit was completely absurd with BS statistics and man hating. I also met plenty through an atheist group who then kicked me out after I called a prominent feminist author a cunt for writing that all men are animals (note she wasn't even part of the group; they just hated the word "cunt" apparently, all while calling guys "dicks" was perfectly acceptable to them).

More importantly, I've seen the horrific results of feminism in such sexist laws as the absolutely massive VAWA (Violence Against Women Act) which trained police officers to listen 100% to the woman and not hear a damn thing the man has to say... this during a relationship with an incredibly abusive ex-wife. Yea, I know full well what feminism is about. Perhaps you should go watch "The Red Pill" for a better understanding.

[–]serious_sarcasm -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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Video linked by /u/zenwarrior01:

Title	Channel	Published	Duration	Likes	Total Views
The Red Pill (2017) - Movie Trailer	Cassie Jaye	2017-01-20	0:02:43	15,648+ (97%)	644,048

"THE RED PILL" - Coming March 7, 2017 to Video-On-Demand...

^Info ^| ^{/u/zenwarrior01} ^can ^delete ^| ^v1.1.3b

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Source? Because this says otherwise.

Go to the first pdf. A couple of things to note: 1. The disparity between men and women is not enormous. 2. The majority of that disparity is put down to maternity costs. 3. There is a much bigger disparity between children, with boys getting much more spending than girls.

Don't try to create strawmen. I am for equality in access to healthcare. And you can't deny that politicians are fucking with women's reproductive healthcare access. You can't even begin to imagine how devastating that is. So vasectomies and ED drugs are covered no question (as well they should be) but birth control and abortions are not because it's "paying for women to have sex" or "have sex, face consequences". And much needed clinics are being shut down because some politicians are using blatantly false pretenses to withdraw Title X funding. So tell me again about how much you care about healthcare equality.

Evangelical Christians are currently injecting their model of patriarchy into my healthcare. And you want to look the other way because the word "patriarchy" makes you squeamish?

Look, patriarchy exists. It's been around for millennia. Speaking out against it is not inviting divisiveness. And men can suffer under patriarchy too. That's actually a specific topic within feminism and gender studies, if only you would see.

[–]all-round-good-egg 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, they say that the additional difference is in maternity and prescription drugs, for women of child bearing age. So for that age bracket, there is close to 70% difference, vs simply massive overspending in every other age bracket apart from children, where the additional spending on boys accounts for 0.8% of total spending. But still more boys die than girls.

Actually more males die than females in every age bracket from birth until death. Yet healthcare is still massively skewed in favour of women. Government spending on women far outstrips spending on men looking at pensions too.

And you are not comparing like for like. Is male contraception covered? No. Abortion not being covered puts women on a similar footing as men, where you have sex and face the consequences of being a wage slave for 18 years to provide for a child you might never see with no options to get out apart from prison or suicide.

If you support legal parental surrender for males (females already have this option in many forms) then I would give your concern about reduced access to these options for females consideration. But as it stands you are quoting the feminist highlights, which - as always - ignore the wider picture for males. The contraceptive pill is incredibly cheap. Cheaper than a months supply of quality condoms.

We actually live in a matriarchy. Women can choose to stay and home or pop in and out of a career or politics as they please. At home they are the deciders of where we live, what size of house we have, what expensive décor our homes are adorned with.

The matriarchy does hurt men, the pressure of meeting the matriarch's desires lest she divorces - 80% of divorces are initiated by women.

If we lived in a patriarchy, 80% of divorces would be initiated by men and we wouldn't have to give half our shit away and pay the matriarch for the rest of her life!

Matriarchs being impressed by violent and dominant men hurts men too. Proxy violence. Perhaps this 'toxic femininity' should be addressed in your feminist warblings?

The truth is that we live in an equilibrium, there is no universal patriarchy or matriarchy. There is no 'toxic masculinity' without 'toxic femininity'. We compliment each other, but feminists have usurped this and put us in competition. (At least until the former feminist matriarchs decide to take it easy after having kids).

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Male suicide. Lemme guess: men need to cry more?

We need a decent Healthcare system both for mental and physical. Possibly also some form of special training for men so that they can be more open and honest about their feelings, and so women are not sexist about it.

Feminist opposition to shared parenting, even though every single study shows it is in the best interests of the child.

Choice. That is all people want. No one wants to be forced to stay in a relationship they don't like. Male or female. As for the child, as long as they're cared for, single parenting from either gender is fine.

Males sentenced to on average 63% more than females. What to do?

Yes, incarceration is huge, in part due to archaic laws in the US. Ideally, You want less incarceration and more community programs or rehabilitation programs. So only the worst are locked up and no one's life is ruined for something as small as pot. As for the gender imbalance, it is fucked up. This kind of bias is pervasive in the justice system (and needs to be addressed) and can also be seen in other ways. Basically, if a defendant looks more innocent, they will get a leaner sentence.

Baby boys having their genitals mutilated. Nature made a mistake?

I think you're talking about circumcision. It should be outlawed. Personally, I'm against even getting a kid's ears pierced without their consent.

Should all boys be placed on Rittalin?

No clue what this is about. Talking out of your arse? Overprescription is an issue. Not aware of it being a gendered one though.

Why do feminists so often ally with the far right?

You're an idiot with no idea of main stream Feminism if you think this.

Aside from all that. You still have provided no evidence of the MSM backing her Kickstarter's as you claimed.

[–]Lostboulevard2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We need a decent Healthcare system both for mental and physical.

We need solutions. Not shrinks. Jobs in this case.

As for the child, as long as they're cared for, single parenting from either gender is fine.

It isn't. Every single study shows the necessity of fathers.

This kind of bias is pervasive in the justice system (and needs to be addressed) and can also be seen in other ways.

What are you doing to redress the massive sex gap? I'm joking. Of course feminists don't care about minor things like men being sentenced to on average 63 percent longer sentences. In fact feminists are trying to abolish female prisons entirely! Lol!

I think you're talking about circumcision. It should be outlawed.

Good for you. You're one of the potentially good guys/gals.

You're an idiot with no idea of main stream Feminism if you think this.

I take that back ;) Just kidding.

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The media literally only cares about Sarkeesian because she triggers you so hard.

You people only say this shit when you get called out.

If it wasn't true, you'd ignore stuff like this, rather than brigading the hell out of it every time it hits /r/all. You guys come in here with no argument whatsoever, repeating the same bullshit you've said for years, and you just downvote everyone who disagrees with you.

Look around--all of the people who actually suscribe here have 'controversial' daggers next to their names because you triggered tards know that what we're saying is true and you want very desperately to stop anyone from hearing it.

I mostly blame the god-awful mods here who will never ban a single goddamned one of you out of some idiot's idea of 'honor'. As if you can have a fair debate with brigaders who organize on IRC every time someone speaks ill of feminism.

Hell, what you're doing here--that's feminist privilege. You think that criticism of your movement should be forbidden.

[–]Taldier 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

^{^} Triggered

Apologies, couldnt help myself.

You casually generalize about those you disagree with, and yet many people on this sub would act horrified if they were generalized as being like you.

In reality, most rational adults who actually take the time to think about these issues move everyone towards equality.

There are important issues brought up on this sub. Things like equality in custody, and how men can be treated around children or when taking up "traditionally feminine" roles.

But in the end it gets overwhelmed by all the REEing of people like yourself ranting about irrelevant tumblr accounts or profiteering talking heads like Sarkeesian who just feed off the attention you give them.

Nobody actually gets to talk about anything because they shut each other out and scream instead of realizing that most of them would agree with each other if they just sat and thought about it instead of getting their messaging from equally ridiculous provocateurs on "their side".

If your self-image is wrapped up in all this nonsense then you really need to take a long look at yourself. You phrase your rhetoric like this is some sort of battle. Like youre "holding the line". Against what?

This is an internet forum. Someone posted some silly content on your sub that is funny within your group, but seems blatantly simplistic and ignorant to anyone who thinks its being taken seriously. And of course, some people here actually do take it seriously.

Then, because reddit is reddit. Everyone got to see that content on /r/all.

I'm not a part of any movement. I'm just a bored guy pointing out things that should be obvious on a Saturday afternoon.

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Title	Feminist privilege.
Author	jaib9
Upvotes	2271
Comments	359
Date	July 15, 2017 6:34 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6nejgo/feminist_privilege/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminist-privilege.918059 https://theredarchive.com/post/918059

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