The toy double standard.

memymineown · 2013-01-01T00:17:14+00:00

Because women's sexuality is beautiful and Men's sexuality is disgusting.

Pecanpig · 2013-01-01T00:36:25+00:00

This is because women (as a non-collective group) are afraid that the price of sex could drop.

If women can pleasure themselves, they of course won't care, and neither will most men, because it doesn't effect us all to much. But turn the tables and you remove the bulk of women's power and influence.

EpicJ · 2013-01-01T00:54:09+00:00

I think it goes back to how we view sex, a dildo is ok for a woman because she can preserve her 'purity' but for a guy sex toys are wrong because its a symbol of the males lack at being able to 'get' sex.

actanonverba8 · 2013-01-01T01:43:07+00:00

I asked one of my female friends how she would react if she went to a potential sexual partner's house and found a fleshlight. Her immediate response was laughter, and she said she would end any activities with that man and described it to be creepy, weird and not normal.

That's only anecdotal, but it's certainly a tremendous double standard and just kind of cruel ("creepy", "not normal"). It is my belief that her double standard, cruel attitude is fairly common. I think part of that is a reflexive shaming response based on sexual economics. Most women get a lot more than they put in (financially, favors,etc..) in order to have sexual relations with men. It's a gravy train and many women do not want to see that threatened (if you are a woman "not like that", know that I am not talking about you).

In fact, it is my understanding that feminists in Canada have already had put into law (or are currently working on it) a policy that makes it illegal for any future robotic technology to be made into an A.I. sex doll. What harm would it do anyone for some lonely guy to have a sex toy like that? None. But, the feminists DO NOT like men having any options (as seen in family law, immigration/domestic violence law, etc..).

So, no more long-windedness. I think your brother should have a fleshlight and enjoy it if he so desires. But, given the frequency and acceptance of misandry and painting male sexuality as deviant, he would probably do well to keep it to himself (outside of perhaps people close to him he can trust).

ghebert001 · 2013-01-01T03:56:05+00:00

Would it reduce the chances of him getting a girlfriend? Yes. Should it? No.

The reason why women ridicule men who use any type of vagina-alternative sex toy like the flesh-light is because they want the monopoly on how men get sexual pleasure. That is also why many of them dislike pornography and escorts/prostitutes. They feel that as long as he needs her for sex then he will stay but if his needs can be fulfilled elsewhere then she can't be a raging bitch any more because he'll surely leave her. Maybe if they had something else to keep him interested other than sex...

arnoldwhat · 2013-01-01T01:36:57+00:00

And god forbid you have anal toys for yourself...

Mikhael_Varpole · 2013-01-01T02:24:51+00:00

It all comes down to a general contempt for men, especially men's sexuality; it's the purest form of misandry I can think of.

Men's sexuality is garden variety; brutish; commonplace; they are the "peasants" of sex. Women's sexuality, on the other hand, is exotic, beautiful, "special". We see this dynamic played out in other areas of life as well - men's disposability being an obvious example - but nowhere is it more prominent then as to regarding sexuality.

SarcastiCock · 2013-01-01T01:11:36+00:00

I always figured a dildo made a good xmas present. It's great for extra clitoral stimulation and finishing her off when you're already done.

Really, I think your female friend should go fuck herself.

father_figa · 2013-01-01T03:42:48+00:00

Just to add another perspective to this conversation, I would like to add a few thoughts. I do believe that the double standard that you think of are real and present. However, I think this issue is more messy on both sides that we are discussing here. First, in the military, I have had to deal with women's bags, some of which, had vibrators in them. Most of the time it was an embarrassing situation for me (not very much) and the woman (much more so) who was "found out". Sometimes there would be nervous laughter and a few times a bold woman would claim her vibrator proudly. The thing is, from my perspective, it is still very much a taboo for women. It is socially more acceptable to talk about dildos but still taboo. Much of the taboo I think comes from the idea that sexual pleasure is considered dirty still for women and that a woman should be able to get any man (why would she have to use a device when a man is a "device" with benefits). Having a vibrator, therefore, is proof in some circles that she cannot get a man. A further point is that a lot of women say they do not masturbate and I believe far more of them are telling the truth than men (due to the taboo against female pleasure and masturbation or being able to get a man is easy).

Also, some states still have laws which make vibrators illegal. In Georgia, there have been raids on sex shops (in the recent past) to confiscate all dildos. It is still illegal in Alabama to own a vibrator or dildo. The laws are not enforced, similar to sodomy laws, but still on the books just the same.

I think sex in general, for men/women and others, is still extremely complex even in modern times. Males have a very narrow spectrum to tread in order to be considered a man sexually. Some even consider cunnilingus, "gay". Anal stimulation, "gay". Dressing up? "gay". Jacking it, perv. The shaming never really stops for either sex. Only social taboos dictate which shaming goes to which group.

My thoughts are that a fleshlight is better than manual masturbation because arousal is similar to vaginal stimulation. No death grip or talented fingers which will eventually make female penetration less pleasurable. It's just my opinion but I suggest your friend buy as many toys as he can and have a freaking ball. If a suitable woman comes along let her in on the fun but run if she thinks of your "hobby" as bad. Solo sex is about pure pleasure and exploration. Any woman that would deny you that pleasure in an open and honest way should, herself, be denied.

intensely_human · 2013-01-01T06:50:50+00:00

I can't wait for the Japanese invention of the robot wife.

ThePigman · 2013-01-01T00:44:37+00:00

A few factors that might influence it:

Most of the studies I've seen show that a pretty significant number of women report that it's difficult or impossible to achieve orgasm through intercourse or manual stimulation. I would be incredibly surprised if that number for men were anywhere close, which means a vibrator (I would guess a vibrator is the most common toy rather than a dildo) is much more likely to be a matter of necessity.
Fleshlights and similar toys are a pretty recent invention, whereas vibrators have been around for a century or so, which gives them a lot more cultural inertia leading to acceptance.

DavidNatan · 2013-01-01T06:12:48+00:00

Women's sexuality is a beautiful and precious thing of self-exploration and cherishing ones inner godess.

Men's sexuality is fucking gross, ewww.

Your female friend is naive and childish. Give her a few years before fleshlights stop being an exotic thing, and become a norm, and your female friend will simply drift into accepting it as well.

edit: Of course there's the tiny possibility that your female friend's not okay with dildoes either... just for the sake of the argument.

CaptainVanderdecken · 2013-01-01T00:29:44+00:00

Because sticking your penis into a lubed piece of plastic is rape. Rape-ity Rape Rape Rape.

ThePigman · 2013-01-01T03:40:31+00:00

"what type of social/psychological effects do sex toys have socially and psychologically?"

My guess would be effects that are social and psychological in nature...

Seriously, though, memymineown has already given the most correct and succinct answer. Male sexuality, whether with a woman or solo, is sick and disgusting and female sexuality is romantic, soft focus, all that crap. Another one of those female privileges that feminists continue to claim does not exist.

Southpaw_xi · 2013-01-01T08:14:43+00:00

I'd ask the girl, do you have a dildo?

If she said yes, I'd say well I have a flesh light. She goes "oh gross". And then I go, so you don't see any problem with sticking a foreign synthetic object inside you? And I wouldn't bother giving her a chance to respond. I'd let her think about it.

JohnAdamZiolkowski · 2013-01-01T04:49:59+00:00

Advise your brother to buy it anyway, and instead of trying to hide it actually bring it up.

If his potential partner is one that would laugh at him for using sex toys of any sort, then they are not the kind of person that he should be with. Consider it filtering.

He shouldn't be ashamed of such things, or be worried about being shamed. I haven't tried a fleshlight, but I've gone through more than my fair share of vibrators. Not only do I make sure my partner knows about them, but I include them in sex if they're willing.

r_rships_account · 2013-01-01T05:19:20+00:00

Who the fuck cares what people think? No one with a brain would be keeping a fleshlight out in the open where his girlfriend could find it anyways.

robert32907 · 2013-01-01T05:51:48+00:00

I dunno. If a woman has one or two vibrators, I think that seen as normal, or maybe even positive. But if a woman has an entire box full of sex toys, that's seen as a little strange.

Men, on the other hand (pardon the pun), are expected to just use their hand and a dirty movie, I guess. Once a guy goes to the trouble and expense of buying a sex toy for himself, I think a lot of women get the "pervert" or "loser" vibe (again, pardon the pun).

It's not really fair, and it's sort of a double standard, but it is what it is.

DavidByron · 2013-01-01T07:18:16+00:00

Because male sexuality is demonized and sick; female sexuality isn't.

rightsbot · 2013-01-01T00:14:19+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

spinningmagnets · 2013-01-01T05:22:39+00:00

"An ugly woman is like a man...you're gonna have to work" Tosh.0

Men want sex more than, and women know it. they sit back (for the most part) and men try to impress them in order to have sex or a relationship.

Women can giggle about reading "50 shades of grey" or watching "magic Mike", but in spite of the fact that pretty much every man she likes and dislikes looks at naked women on occasion, and masturbates with a toy or their hand...it is in her vested interest to "slut shame" every man that she can about doing those things. Sexuality is one of the few things that even an average woman has as negotiating leverage in life.

Women give a pass to each other, but not to men.

What do they say when they choose to break up with you? "I can't believe is out screwing sluts the next day!", but its OK when their girls take her out to get laid after a breakup...that's normal, healthy, and good.

Visualize a woman asking you why you won't ask her best friend out...then try to visualize yourself asking your buddy to ask a girl you like why she won't ask you out.

The narrative is that a man must chase women, pay for dates, constantly try to figure out what she wants.

Another test: Imagine a woman telling you what to do when you give her a back rub. "A little higher, a little to the left, harder, yeah right there", now...imagine the average woman telling you what to do when you're giving her oral sex. There's a series of slight noises and body movements that are open to interpretation, and if you cared about her, you'd make the effort to figure out what she likes.

2013-01-01T14:11:36+00:00

This picture has been circulating around the web for a few years, points out the double standard pretty well: http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-12-13/m1395.png

Greyfeld · 2013-01-01T08:09:14+00:00

Because, despite claiming that perverts are gross and creepy, any man who needs to "resort" to a vagina-alternative is a loser and equally as creepy. It's that lovely double standard that men get to live under when it comes to sexual relations with women.

Ask her how she would react if the guy in question had a dildo. That'd be interesting lol.

Suitecake · 2013-01-01T10:26:40+00:00

I haven't run into any women who freak out at the fact that I have a fleshlight. I've told a couple.

Piss_Marks_MY_Spot · 2013-01-01T12:26:40+00:00

Personally, I don't see a problem with one. If a girl laughs at him for owning one, maybe she's not the right girl for him.

graffiti81 · 2013-01-01T14:32:29+00:00

If a potential partner laughs at him about it, before she can leave, tell her "Fuck you, get out." At least he preserves his dignity that way.

wrez · 2013-01-01T13:08:43+00:00

A dildo?

The most common female sex toy is the vibrator.

SirTrumpalot · 2013-01-01T14:36:18+00:00

I imagine it is slightly more than gender equalitn as well. Actual sexual stimulation is important in this case. Dildos for women can be used as an aid or another "source" of stimulation even during physical sex whereas with a fleshlight, you're pretty much stuck to committing to it with no other real outlet.

Emotion and "mood" play a big role in sex for women whereas men tend to stay aroused more from the physical side. With a fleshlight I could see men almost "settling" on one as i hear they are meant to feel absolutely cracking and lose a lot of sex drive, however with women the dildo doesn't work to the same degree. Apologies that this is purely anecdotal but just trying to open up the topic a bit more beyond the circlejerk.

OuiCrudites · 2013-01-01T15:58:36+00:00

Female sexuality is precious, male sexuality is demonized.
If men can get sexual gratification without the ministrations of a woman, this lowers her market value to obtain resources in exchange for sex.

Coinin · 2013-01-01T16:58:37+00:00

"Men don't shame them, make fun of them or anything."

I would, mercilessly: Sex toys are hilarious!

Seriously though I have no problem with anyone having sex toys. The only ones that creep me out are those livedolls, but that's a bit different.

MrStonedOne · 2013-01-01T18:06:36+00:00

I plan to buy and use one mainly as protest of this very double standard

mikesteane · 2013-01-02T07:34:39+00:00

It's a reflection of the fact that it is easy for women to get laid and the conclusion that using a dildo is therefore a choice for them, whereas a fleshlight for a man is a last resort.

Also it relates to women restricting what men are allowed to be.

Boss_Monkey · 2013-01-01T14:03:51+00:00

Its just another display of the feminine imperative. They really do look at life as zero sum. Any man that is using a flesh light is not serving a woman.

2013-01-01T19:00:51+00:00

Socialy? Shit-tons. psychologicaly? None.

2013-01-01T19:02:34+00:00

If my brother bought one, would buying a fleshlight reduce the chance of him getting a girlfriend?

Only if she finds out about it. Why do you assume she needs to know about it? I mean, seriously. He needs a locked hiding place and he should give himself a standard of pitching the thing if the relationship gets serious.

theskepticalidealist · 2013-01-01T19:58:05+00:00

If my brother bought one, would buying a fleshlight reduce the chance of him getting a girlfriend?

Yes, if they found out about it. Its fine for her to have sextoys though, such is the double standard for men. Men enjoying sex is not something society cares about. If he has an orgasm, thats enough.

GoGoBitch · 2013-01-01T21:03:48+00:00

I think fleshlights are funny not because they are male masturbation aids, but because they are male masturbation aids disguised as flashlights. The fleshlight is a really dumb idea. I might dump someone who owned one for having bad taste. Tell him to get something better (I don't know enough about this topic to tell you what that might be) and keep it well hidden.

But onto the more general topic at hand: where I grew up, all sex toys (dildos, blow-up dolls, vibrators, you name it) are all considered gross and subject for mockery. It had nothing to do with gender, it was more of a masturbation == bad thing. Even now, while I consider myself more open-minded, but I think sex toys whatever you do with them are your own business unless you and your partner make some other arrangement.

EleisonJoy · 2013-01-01T21:52:49+00:00

For every woman who is told that her vagina is nasty, smelly and sinful, there is a man who is told that his penis is shameful. For every man spouting off disgusting anti-vagina rants, there is a woman spouting off disgusting anti-penis/balls rants. If he was my brother, I'd tell him that women who can't get down with a sexually mature men aren't women worth fucking, but I live in a different city, within a different subculture. If your brother is Muslim and hoping for a traditional wife through arranged marriage, or if you brother is a feminist hoping for a gender-non-specific feminist life-partner - he needs to make a hard choice between that want and his sexual wants.

I'm a woman, and I have been the friend that women joke about the masturbation habits of a man with. When I hear this kind of garbage, I put on my serious face and educate. I can do that, because, as a lesbian, I have double female privilege. I have gotten mixed responses, one woman took my advice and asked her boyfriend to use the vibrating cockring with her - she later told me it was great through a ton of giggles (maybe it was funny, maybe it satisfying, maybe it was both). One woman told me that the use of this toy was within a context of rape culture, and then she told me off for having "lesbian privilege" over straight women - we aren't friends anymore- and honestly, this dude was better off with his fleshlight.

RedditHypocrite · 2013-01-05T04:33:08+00:00

We all you're referring to yourself when you say "brother."

Crimson_D82 · 2013-01-01T03:32:18+00:00

EDIT: From a woman's POV

If men have sexual Independence then a woman isn’t needed. When it comes to children they can simply hire a mother to inseminate and have their baby. Even better if done in another country where she isn’t a US citizen; then she can’t claim any real right to the child. Men would be free to live how they wanted and to raise children as they see fit without having to give in to women and support the ones too lazy to work.

Personally I think dildos/vibrators are gross and I have no objection telling a woman that. I don’t shame unless they try to shame me for saying it.

LunaRosa · 2013-01-01T12:37:18+00:00

"brother"

teehee.

Title	The toy double standard.
Author	fotoshawt
Upvotes	269
Comments	194
Date	January 1, 2013 12:13 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/15r02w/the-toy-double-standard/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-toy-double-standard.1603038 https://theredarchive.com/post/1603038

Comments