About Looks and Physical Attraction

96tillinfinity___ · 2023-10-16T18:17:39+00:00

Because women do not want to be shallow and call a man ugly. Women usually do not want to feel like the bad guy or be the bad guy

So its easier to tell a guy you find ugly that he should improve his personality and other factors. Telling a guy hes ugly is basically saying hes genetically unworthy enough for female companionship. No woman wants that on their conscious

That being said, women do call men ugly. Just usually indirectly

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2023-10-17T02:41:35+00:00

If “personality” is more important than looks, then why do people debate about whether or not it matters when it comes to dating?

Because looks is more important... "Looks is what keeps them around long enough for them to get to know your personality". Without looks your blessing of a personality is worthless.

If a guy is struggling with dating, why is it always assumed that his personality is what’s blocking and not other shallow metrics that might be at play?

Oh I can answer this. Short answer: when talking about a guy women picture a concept of a guy, and this concept normally doesn't ever include a not very attractive guy in it. They just assume it's a acceptablely cute enough guy. So if he is cute enough the problem has to them be with personality.

Long answer.

See women rate men on a scale of 1 to 3. 1. Noticeably ugly 2. Invisible 3. Noticeably attractive

People really only notice people they find at least slightly attractive and women tend to find less people slightly+ attractive, so they only notice about 20% of the population of men.

So women have an extremely skewed view point on how attractive the average guy is, and if shown an average looking they they claim that guy is less than average looking.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-10-16T17:39:49+00:00

It’s not about what’s “more important” it’s about having both. This should just be understood

We don’t tell people “ it’s important that she speaks the same language as you at least enough so she understands what you are saying” That’s just a given

At the same time; “she’s not going to just drop her panties the second you meet. So you are going to need to be able to close the deal. Or at least not fuck it up!”

slazengerx · 2023-10-16T19:12:37+00:00

If “personality” is more important than looks, then why do people debate about whether or not it matters when it comes to dating?

Most normal people realize that they're both important and that the degree of their relative importance varies from person to person. And it is for this very reason... that there's so much debate on the topic. Like many issues, it's just that the people on the far ends of both sides of the debate tend to be the most vocal so you see their opinions more often.

grillopie · 2023-10-16T17:52:46+00:00

I dont know which is more important, but i think its fairly obvious both are important.

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-10-16T18:24:30+00:00

struggle with dating because of their physical appearance

The reason most try to downplay the importance of personality over looks is to not hurt others feelings. It’s however more harmful to lie to someone. I had this very conversation with my wife and sister. I told my cousin who’s husband hunting, to her face, that if she wanted to land a good man, she needed lose the weight. They all blew up at me. Said I was ‘mean’ etc.. I told them all straight, ‘I love my cousin. If I didn’t, I would’ve lied to her.’

It’s not an issue of importance, more so an issue of decorum. I wouldn’t call out random strangers, but for the ones I love? They get it straight.

Godspeed and good luck!

WilliamWyattD · 2023-10-16T18:27:07+00:00

The issue is that saying looks are more important than personality, or vice versa, is too simplistic.

Rogue5454 · 2023-10-16T22:24:19+00:00

Because it’s one thing to talk about your struggles with dating due to what you feel are because your looks & quite another thing to blame the gender you’re interested for it. Which is what happens most of the time.

itdoesnotmatterlolol · 2023-10-17T14:18:25+00:00

Studies show that for women looks are considered a deal breaker. A looks threshold must be passed before any other attribute is considered. The studies show looks do matter more for women. Why is this always coming up as a debate topic?!

Blue pilled idiots think it's personality because they don't want to admit the world is shallow. But it is. That's what the red pill teaches and the studies back it up

MistyMaisel · 2023-10-16T17:55:10+00:00

So, moving a bit chaotically through your questions.

The number of truly hideous men with faces only a mother could love is relatively low. We're talking about major deformities, tragic accidents, and a few cases where the dice just came up bad. This isn't most men and when I speak to anyone here, I'm assuming they're most men.
Most men are blah or inoffensive. They aren't tragic deformities and they aren't ooooo lala hot. They're just blah. And by this token, I do assume their appearance is a problem, but not in an unfixable universe cursed him way. He's blah. He needs to take a shower, get a good haircut, shave well, work out consistently, have a useful personal aesthetic, a nice smell, and learn to actually smile nicely and carry himself with confidence. And we tell him this. And it is not shallow to not want a man who takes no pride in his appearance and looks like a thumb when he could be o la hot if he just gave a shit.

***

We complain about beauty standards and conventions because they're often causing us to have to go above and beyond giving a shit about how we look while also never feeling like we're beautiful. They tend to portray a single image of beauty to the exclusion of other images of beauty which are equally beautiful in some sense, but far less marketable and good for capitalism. Think breast implants, anything except a size 0 being seen as fat, no leg hair, ass implants, the idea women aren't attractive after 40, nose jobs, blonde and blue-eyed being beauty in a nutshell. Like, none of this is actually what is beautiful day to day, but it is portrayed as the standard.
Pretty privilege is almost exclusively about shallow interactions like the gas station cashier or any other scenario in which someone doesn't have a real way to get to know you. People think this applies to dating, but people are making it apply to dating by purposefully using tools which are based on the most shallow possible evaluation. If you aren't pretty, get off online dating and use the better tool of socializing and warm approach. If you know quick evaluation isn't coming up aces for you, then go for the long con. The fact so many men refuse to do this because it's more difficult, time consuming, and emotionally harrowing is the tell that they have certain weaknesses in their personality that are causing their downfall.

***

It's not a bad thing to point it out, it's a fucking useless thing. If you've really peaked your physical appearance and there's no room for improvement, then you may as well focus on other things. And anyone giving you advice about this is also wise because why focus on things you cannot change? Focus on the things you can. It's just sensible. If all you want is a pity party, realize most of us have no interest in participating in your sob parade. The fact you want to throw a sob parade in an advice situation again suggests some annoying personality traits which are unattractive.

***

Because it usually isn't shallow metrics. I've been on these places for almost a year now, I can tell you most of these dudes are unfuckable because of their personalities. If they sent me their pictures there isn't one I'd go, "yeah, no shot, ugly". All of them have terrific personality issues or mental health issues that are so freaking obvious it's truly sad they cannot see it or refuse to address it.

***

People do debate how much looks matter actually. Almost as much as they debate personality mattering. Just not on these parts where men want an easy out on self-improvement because they wish relationships and sex were like fast food and not the soul-crushing constant improvement thing they are.

AceOfSpadesGymBro · 2023-10-16T19:36:57+00:00

AlMost men who struggle with women aren't even that bad looking. Sure, they can upgrade their grooming, haircuts and style, but the problem is with something else. The problem almost always comes down to neediness and inferiority. If you understand this truth: women NEVER WANT this which they can get and AWLAYS WANT this which they can't get, it will make total sense to you why they don't want needy guys wjth inferiority complexes.

DerayRevan · 2023-10-16T17:26:38+00:00

Your right that assumption never made any sense because they are guys and obviously women who struggle solely just due to their looks

Now on the looks and personality, l've said there are many guys who pull with bad looks and many who pull with a bad personality

And one becomes more important depending on the age bracket and environment such as looks being more important to the younger generation and online

For women, looks are obviously important but since they've a wide variety of attraction triggers, it's no wonder many say looks aren't the overall package nor more important than personality

For men it's mostly just looks we always focus on, so it's no surprise why many don't seem to understand this

NonTakenNameThatIUse · 2023-10-17T06:26:23+00:00

Looks matter first

Which is why looks are the most important thing, they're the crowbar that breaks open the doors of opportunity

After that personality matters if you're aiming for a relationship

If not, who cares

OtPayOkerSmay · 2023-10-16T18:44:57+00:00

The whole 'personality > looks' spiel is generally women virtue signalling to unattractive men.

If you aren't attractive and you ask a woman what she (or women as a whole) find attractive, they will resort to that fake niceness and essentially list your positive traits. They will pour honey down your ear, and it's generally far from the actual truth.

One thing the manosphere advises that I strongly agree with is to avoid taking any sort of dating advice from women.

Sacral_tune · 2023-10-16T17:29:10+00:00

Attraction is about physical features and personality. Personality can enhance for draw from physical attraction. If someone is not attractive, they can do their best to dress up their key features and tone down their detracting features (like lose weight, straighten their teeth, learn how to dress, get a decent haircut or pair of glasses.) Self-assuredness, feeling comfortable in your own skin will add to that; and in some cases be your defining attractor.

This all takes self work though, and for some, they have to get past the self-centered mindset that they are entitled to their ideal mate - the fact is in in todays world, if you want to attract an ideal mate, you have to become your ideal self.

SianOiseau · 2023-10-16T17:22:56+00:00

Both things matter. Being short or having unfortunate facial features does make one's dating life harder and in some cases just stops them from getting any action whatsoever. We just tend to disagree where the bar is and how many people are stopped purely due to their looks.

Most people are average and close to average - we can go outside and see enough of them dating and forming families. So basically if one average-looking man can date and the other can't, they must have some difference beyond their looks. Personality, social skills etc.

EastSideSlasha · 2023-10-16T18:05:45+00:00

Looks get you in the door, but personality keeps you there

JNRoberts42 · 2023-10-16T17:21:49+00:00

Because personality can make or break rapport, mutual attraction, and/or compatibility. Superficial physical attractiveness is the smallest portion of a big puzzle for most women.

If he's hilarious but fat and kind of a jerk to servers, his personality is the limiting factor.

If he is photogenic with symmetrical features and a masculine build but obsesses over conspiracy theories, his personality is the limiting factor.

If he's attractive and pleasant in public, but obsessive when alone and sends dozens of messages on multiple platforms because he's "just checking in", his personality is the limiting factor.

If he resembles a celeb women crush on, is pleasant in public, funny and engaging but bigoted, his personality is the limiting factor.

Physically and socially appealing, but gross in bed: personality.

Gorgeous and fun on the first date but lacks empathy and kicks puppies: it's his personality.

Yes, women know men will persist in the presence of shit personality traits. But women's investment and risk in relationships and sex is far higher and women have differing standards.

illusoryfindings · 2023-10-16T18:43:07+00:00

If “personality” is more important than looks, then why do people debate about whether or not it matters when it comes to dating?

Everyone cares about looks but they don't want to lose social points by appearing shallow by saying it, so they say the noble thing. "Looks don't matter." Some use the better statement "Looks aren't everything." Realistically, everyone looks for both.

Why do people complain about “conventional beauty standards” or pretty privilege?

Seeing beautiful people loved by all makes them feel insecure and resentful if they're not also beautiful, so they hop onto social movements in the hopes of changing what society views as beautiful, in a way that benefits them.

Why is it such a bad thing to point out that there are men AND women who struggle with dating because of their physical appearance?

Because people are easily annoyed by complaining and self-defeatist attitudes, there's a certain lack of accountability on the part of the complainer when they attribute all of their lack of dating success to things outside their control, like they're not taking responsibility for themselves. There's a ton of things everyone can do to endear themselves to others, complainers won't even try, or make half-assed tries hoping for exceptional results.

If a guy is struggling with dating, why is it always assumed that his personality is what’s blocking and not other shallow metrics that might be at play?

Because it usually is. Even if he's handsome, if he's socially stupid, desperate and needy, or simply dull, most women will find an excuse to move on after she's no longer wowed by his looks.

drok007 · 2023-10-16T21:25:37+00:00

Looks don’t matter, 99.99% of the people complaining about it look fine or have potential and don’t take care of themselves. 100% of the time their personality is atrocious dog shit. So again to reiterate: the common theme among men who can’t get laid isn’t that they are ugly but that they have terrible personalities.

Just_Natural_9027 · 2023-10-16T18:20:18+00:00

The biggest problem is that you can't take away personality from attraction. The Halo Effect is one of the most studied and held up things in social sciences. We attribute good personality characteristics to people who are good looking.

This creates a problem for both red pillers and blue pillers. Red Pillers hear this and think personality doesn't matter at all. Wrong. Blue Pillers are probably naive on how much attraction biases our perception on personality.

I think the problem with this subreddit (among many things) is that both sides tell half-truths about the actual research in the field.

AttackOnTightPanties · 2023-10-22T01:21:19+00:00

A simple answer: not always, but because attractive people usually have an easier time in life, their personalities tend to be more agreeable.

Unattractive or painfully average people often have a chip on their shoulder that they have to face at some point. This chip is warranted but also makes you less appealing.

Safinated · 2023-10-16T17:14:41+00:00

No one says it’s more important

mrs_seng · 2023-10-16T17:34:35+00:00

In most cases it's not the physical appearance. Yes, there are butt ugly people, some are morbidly obese, but the vast majority have other issues.

I can't stress enough how important it is to be a pleasant company, be funny, be witty, talk right, have a good comeback, be socially aware.

On a different subreddit i had 3 guys dm me asking for advice. They offered to send pictures of themselves to let them know if their physical appearance was the issue. Thank god, i got no dick pics. They all thought their face was the problem

NONE of them were ugly, but through further discussion i could tell and then they admitted having mental issues or so chatty that it became overwhelming, one of them had depression and really bad tinder pictures.

Then i look at my husband's friends. I am cknsidered a cool dude with long hair, so i know much more than i want about all of them. All 3 men i will describe are under 5'6". None of them are ugly.

One of them is very fun and easy going, an extrovert who can break the ice with anyone. He's married.

Another one is an introvert, very insecure, never really spent time around girls. He's polite, but not very chatty. He had 2 girlfriends, both girls approached first. He never approached a girl. He's single.

And the 3rd one is also an introvert. He's chatty, but will talk to you about programming science for 3 hours. He's got a VERY good paying job. Doesn't help that he lives in a small city. He approaches girls too cautiously, too friendly. He had a girlfriend and she approached him first. He's single.

Irl, usually women don't think in numbers when they see a guy. That's a 6, that's a 4, that's a 7. There are 3 states only: pass, doesn't pass and looks very good.

I bet that the majority of men who complain about looks have no issues with looks. Unless he didn't shower for a month, but that can be easily fixed.

I know that what I say is anecdotal evidence, but it's more like case studies.

Each struggling man is a particular case study.

George69143 · 2023-10-16T19:26:24+00:00

Women don’t want to appear shallow. The fact is most men are unattractive to women so for the few men who are have fun. If you are in the majority of men that aren’t you better hope a woman settles for you but if any of those other men come along she will leave you.

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januaryphilosopher · 2023-10-16T18:55:10+00:00

If looks are more important than personality them why debate it? Why do people complain about people with certain personality traits getting dates? Why is it a bad thing to point out that people don't just miss out on dates because of their appearance? If a man is struggling with dating, why do some people always assume it's due to how he looks?

Eastern-Action1384 · 2023-10-16T21:32:02+00:00

It was always looks and physical attraction for men or women. As for unlucky men, well after she mature she gonna see you.

KlingKlangKing · 2023-10-17T08:48:41+00:00

Because if you're a certain level of shy/awkward, no women will want you even if you look like gigachad

upsidemaze · 2023-10-17T10:18:39+00:00

If “personality” is more important than looks,

Its not, it can become something that override looks though

Why do people complain about “conventional beauty standards” or pretty privilege?

Because its the club they are not part of.

Why is it such a bad thing to point out that there are men AND women who struggle with dating because of their physical appearance?

It exposes shallowness of women and tend to make betas not want to slave away for chance with a unicorn.

If a guy is struggling with dating, why is it always assumed that his personality is what’s blocking and not other shallow metrics that might be at play?

Its in women's best interest to keep men in dark. Otherwise their beta hubby might decide to leave her postwall self and her kids with chad and become a sugar daddy instead.

macone235 · 2023-10-17T19:25:41+00:00

Personality only matters to the extent of creating a masculine image. The rest of it is at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of a women's preferences.

Women just want an overall masculine men, but will often virtue signal to pretend that they don't so they can control less masculine men.

Title	About Looks and Physical Attraction
Author	masterofliquidswords
Upvotes	24
Comments	142
Date	October 16, 2023 5:09 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/179b2jx/about_looks_and_physical_attraction/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/about-looks-and-physical-attraction.1235352 https://theredarchive.com/post/1235352

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