Alpha males and beta males don't exist

Triglycerine · 2025-02-25T01:26:39+00:00

It was always meant as an abstraction. You just said the same thing with more words.

ComfortableJeans · 2025-02-25T02:34:11+00:00

When people make reference to the Alpha/Beta dynamic, they're not directly referencing the Alpha Wolf biology theory from 1977.

They simply tend to mean that one person is more confident, assertive and socially capable, while the other is more meek, socially inept and timid.

Which, typically tends to be seen with one being seen as more sexually attractive and desirable than the other.

It's predominantly used in reference toward men to draw attention to how women tend to find more dominant men more attractive, while finding submissive men less attractive.

Alpha/Beta.
Assertive/Meek.
Dominant/Submissive.

AidsVictim · 2025-02-25T08:39:35+00:00

It's an indictment of a persons observational skills if they're an adult and haven't recognized that some men are generally socially dominant and some men are generally socially timid. This is really all alpha and beta means and autistically attempting to disprove it by pointing out that socially dominant men don't walk into every environment and instantly become the top of the social hierarchy and power is quite silly.

ThinkSupermarket6163 · 2025-02-25T00:34:41+00:00

The bartender/professor/surgeon example makes no fucking sense lmao, but neither does anything else on this sub.

BrainMarshal · 2025-02-25T03:09:14+00:00

Women want confident, attractive, dominant, and popular men. Now we have to say all of that instead of simply "Alpha".

weenieandthebutt · 2025-02-25T01:04:51+00:00

Alpha/beta are mostly colloquial terms used to denote sexual/social hierarchies amongst men. Some even call it Type A/Type B personalities.

Yes, it's not a strict dichotomy and there are nuisances around it but let's not bullshit ourselves with "everyone is equal" when men of all shapes, sizes and economic statuses are each perceived vastly more different.

An alpha imo is phenotypically masculine (tall, slender, rugged face, deep voice) and has this dominant aura about him. Just as women can instinctively tell someone is attractive and call it "chemistry", most other people can sense this dominant aura from a male.

no, I'm not talking about someone who's cartoonishly aggressive and a complete immoral asshole. Also no, just because I use the term alpha doesn't mean I deludingly call myself that. It's not something you can fake which is why women despise men from nerdy backgrounds who try to emulate it.

Beta's are more agreeable and more averse to conflict though this isn't to say they can't be conventionally attractive or skilled/successful in their own ways. They're likeable by nature but not much sex appeal outside the realms of committed relationships. Neckbeards on the other hand are just a separate class of their own.

I think it's disingenuous for those who despise these terms yet casually throw the label "incel" around whom they perceive as sexless, low-value men - reinforcing the same hierarchy they adamantly deny.

MikeArrow · 2025-02-25T00:37:35+00:00

Sure they do, I'm a classic beta. Very stable, zero sex appeal.

petellapain · 2025-02-25T01:33:59+00:00

It is as legitimate a term as it is functional in conversation. Everyone knows what is meant when they hear the terms. They can picture the type of man, and put most men they see into either category fairly quickly.

DatingVX · 2025-02-25T00:46:44+00:00

The one I agree with is that alpha and beta are more environmental based then people say

At a local swimming competition the 1# Athlete is gonna have the most status with any woman that is there. In the club, or in college, he can appear as the lamest or lowest scoring in class knocking his appeal down

I could have used a much better example but the idea is there lol

Ive been at places where I was the only slightly exotic one that knew how to dance, and I was the flavor of all women. Ive been to other lounges where I am heavily outshadowed and wasnt

Now of course, being an objective 8 in everything will still give you a basic high level

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-02-25T05:08:24+00:00

Sure they do

It’s the fun guy and the serious guy

The Madonna and the whore

Thank-You-rand-pct-d · 2025-02-25T01:06:13+00:00

Alpha males and beta males don't exist

Neather do numbers or languages nor races, and genders.

BonesAndStuff01 · 2025-02-25T01:32:20+00:00

OP I've written this before but don't often so hopefully you'll read it.

Alpha and Beta traits in chimps specifically actually do exist , and this isn't often talked about in science but the quantifying factor you want to be aware of is Reactive vs Proactive Aggression

You can probably begin to infer but in chimp tribes there was a time that alpha traits allowed more resource acquisition and dominance, mate hoarding etc. This can happen but even these days it's rare. Such chimps would be particularly high in reactive aggression but interestingly chimps already are more reactively aggressive than humans by many times over.

Proactive Aggression is the trait of Beta chimps and developed as a strategy related to hunting. Heading in to the woods a small group could eventually come across another group. They were primitive in their methods and would often just call out. If another chimp called back and was alone they would kill it and eat it. That was basically their rudimentary practice.

That led to some sort of meat consumption which we know is a major factor in why our brains got bigly.

That and some combination of leaving the trees and the ground be cold led to the creation of fire for warmth and eventually cooking. I reckon that took a long ass time but that's the theory behind that point of evolution. When they started actually cooking meat they were able to digest wayyy more and hunting several times a week replaced once or twice a month. So proactive aggression as a trait, we can see there and globally sense, is absolutely the dominant trait of "Betas"

That is to say that Beta traits involve working together in teams to accomplish complex tasks and overcome some sort of existential challenges.

As you might expect, it wasnt long in to the selection of reactive aggression before chimps started ripping the balls off of the more reactive "alpha" chimps and eating them. Nevertheless because of our fear center our brains remain with these potentials.

These days we just call these types of traits out for what they are because we know intuitively - these "alpha" guys are selfish, annoying, generally hard to tolerate, can't cooperate or perform most of the time, and aren't good to work with on a team to do anything at all.

So according to all that which is a lot of theory, Alpha traits DO exist in humans but they are not preferred traits and there's a reason we all find them annoying and stupid.

Good luck getting the average person to understand that though lol.

Pro-IDGAF · 2025-02-25T18:15:50+00:00

of course they do exist but not every beta male is a cuck looser. those are a notch down from there.

wtf do you think military leaders are? not ever man had the ability to lead. those are alphas.

beta’s are just more followers. not necessarily a bad thing either.

any guy i consider to be an alpha is also NOT a brash asshole. those loud mouth mf’ers are low self esteem dudes.

missmireya · 2025-02-25T00:37:33+00:00

At the night club the Bartender is the Alpha

Haha I don't even go to the clubs and know this is bullshit. The club owner + the bouncers are the Alpha men. Have you ever talked to a bartender irl? There's one who lives on my block and he's the biggest pussy alive. 😂

LapazGracie · 2025-02-25T01:11:12+00:00

Males are the one with the dual mating strategy

1) fuck fuck fuck

2) Invest in one

Females have but one

1) pair up with a high quality mate

This idea that females will try to get semen from some high quality DNA male and then ensnare a lesser man to take care of them is totally illogical from an evolutionary perspective. It may work with primitive animals or primitive primates. That are almost completely incapable of abstract thought. But if you tried to do that at scale with human males. You'd just be digging your own grave and your childrens grave.

If males often react aggressively now. How do you think they reacted 20,000 years ago.

If being a single mom is tough now resource wise. How tough do you think it was 20,000 years ago.

All this Alpha Fucks Beta Bucks is actually an observation of the MALE dual mating strategy. High quality males who can get several high quality females. Often string along several of them at the same time. We call them players. Some call them "alpha males".

Open-Quail-2573 · 2025-02-25T02:39:26+00:00

I call bs. Yes, I think those terms are kind of goofy and reductive. However, they definitely have some ground. You can literally look at a group of dudes and tell which one is the alpha. The most naturally dominant and confident guys have the most success. Contrary to what redditors tell you, very shy and meek men suffer irl in many aspects.

Kind_Mongoose_4730 · 2025-02-25T00:52:13+00:00

No, alpha and beta males definitely do exist. You’re right that a lot of them are in relationships, but they usually are less masculine, want everything 50/50, less protective of their partners. A few are even into polyamory. Many are also not in relationships and are !ncels. Women would often prefer to be with the alpha, but I’ve seen strong feminists prefer being with a beta to dominate.

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Routine_Condition273 · 2025-02-25T21:39:50+00:00

They do exist, but not in the sense that you might think. IIRC the person who observed wolves' behaviors found out that they only get to an alpha/beta hierarchy in captivity. In the wild, there is no "alpha" or leader. Each male wolf pairs with 1 other female wolf. They're basically monogamous.

In human society, it's just getting harder to live, and wages are not catching up to the cost of living, and there's an ever increasing list of rules and laws we have to follow. We are essentially sinking further and further into captivity, and the competition for mates becomes more cutthroat.

When some dude calls himself an "alpha male" what he's really saying is that he is trying to win a game he shouldn't be playing in the first place.

NeoKlang · 2025-02-27T04:32:41+00:00

Definition of alpha and beta males were created by some people who need to put people into categories. Paid coaches take the opportunity to sell courses to make males be alpha.

ArkAngelEV · 2025-02-25T00:49:01+00:00

Most betas do get lots of sex … I have to ask, do you really believe the quality of the sex these beta men have anywhere approximates what the “alpha” sex gets to enjoy?

Ok-Assistant-1220 · 2025-02-25T00:42:49+00:00

If You make a venn diagram circling the ones who get mostboptions in the sexual marketplace, that's your definition of alpha. Doesn't matter the mechanics or the why, if You are in that circle, You are the alpha. Some people observe what the people i'm that circle does, and try to explain it. Right or wrong, the phenomenon exists.

Feeling_Ad_1034 · 2025-02-25T02:46:55+00:00

This is more an issue of you and a lot of RP people not understanding RP cannon. Rollo Tomassi clearly lays this out in The Rational Male and it lines up with just about everything you’ve stated.

RoseyButterflies · 2025-02-25T10:31:23+00:00

While I don't believe in AA BB I think 18/19~ is the age where men either swim and suceed with women or drown fail and become an incel.

It is the critical point.

South_Chain6066 · 2025-02-25T02:16:20+00:00

Alpha and beta male strictly describes the dichotomy between big dick toxic energy and Golden retriever energy

Top_Present_5825 · 2025-02-25T11:43:57+00:00

If “alpha” and “beta” males don’t exist, then why do you go on to describe a system in which men are constantly shifting between dominant and subordinate roles based on context, resources, and desirability, effectively reaffirming the very hierarchy you claim doesn’t exist?

You say “alpha” is situational, but that’s just a semantic cop-out - if dominance, attractiveness, and status dictate male desirability, then the very labels you reject are simply descriptors of these traits in action, rendering your denial meaningless?

You claim that women’s dual mating strategy disproves the existence of “alpha” and “beta” distinctions, yet all you’ve done is describe the exact same dynamic with different words - if one man is pursued for genetic quality and another for provision, isn’t that just another way of categorizing dominance versus submission, attraction versus utility, power versus dependence?

And if status is so fluid that “alphas” change based on environment, isn’t that just an admission that hierarchies exist everywhere and that male desirability is graded on a scale of dominance and subordination, the very thing you pretend doesn’t exist?

If “beta” males can leverage resources for sexual access, then isn’t that just another way of describing a lower-status male compensating for a lack of intrinsic desirability, proving the hierarchy you deny?

If you truly believe alpha and beta males don’t exist, then why does everything you’ve written reinforce the exact principles of social dominance and hierarchical mating strategies you claim to refute?

davidnailder · 2025-02-25T02:56:48+00:00

Agreed. The red pill is a less than half truth at best.

What is truly stupid is the concept of an alpha female.

I_DOM_UR_PATRIARCHY · 2025-02-25T04:09:51+00:00

dark triad personality

This is the first time I've heard someone claim that women are attracted to sociopaths and sadists.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2025-02-25T00:56:05+00:00

That’s a lot of words to say “this RedPill talking point is obviously bullshit!”

rando755 · 2025-02-25T01:27:22+00:00

This post is very good. In order for the terms alpha male and beta male to be real concepts, I would need to define them very carefully. But for the way these 2 terms are often used in everyday discourse, to suggest that there is 1 type of man that is always attractive and 1 type that is always unattractive, is an oversimplification, and very different from what these terms mean in zoology.

Plane-Image2747 · 2025-02-25T02:18:25+00:00

>What women pursue in men exists on two axes

any model that proposes to know what women pursue should at least be in three dimensions. I recommend a cylindrical coordinate system

Title	Alpha males and beta males don't exist
Author	DiligentRope
Upvotes	0
Comments	107
Date	February 25, 2025 12:27 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ixhqg6/alpha_males_and_beta_males_dont_exist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/alpha-males-and-beta-males-dont-exist.1544868 https://theredarchive.com/post/1544868

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