"Body count" metrics don't really help determine anything

wtknight · 2023-03-04T13:09:52+00:00

Re-flaired CMV as this post is making an affirmative claim

Aluminiah · 2023-03-04T07:24:39+00:00

There are a lot of things that are illogical but still true. Human beings are not purely rational, and the simple fact is that a large number of men are uncomfortable with dating people with large body counts.

There are several possible reasons for this feeling. But ultimately if that is a standard people want to set for themselves, then we should let them have that standard, and the same goes in reverse.

If a woman only wants to date 7" tall guys who make 8 figures a year, power to her, just don't complain about it if you aren't able to find someone that fits the bill. If a guy only wants to date virgin's, that's fine, but if he ends up cold and alone because there aren't any virgin's that want to date him thats on him.

All that being said, I think the most accurate reason why men care so much about body count is because of sexual insecurity. It's a lot harder for men to find people who want to have sex with them than the other way around, which means a large percentage of the male population likely haven't had that many sexual partners.

Add to that the fact that women judging men to be bad in bed or complaining about being left unsatisfied (which is significantly more common than the reverse) and there can be a large amount of pressure felt by men that they need to perform, or they won't be deemed good enough and their partner will leave/cheat/etc. This isn't even touching on the whole discourse around whether size matters.

Ultimately it can feel like if you aren't able to pleasure a woman the way she wants, then you aren't enough of a man. Which is a pretty damaging sword to hang over someone. And frankly, if someone has been with a lot of people then there will be more points of comparison, more chances that you've had really good sex before and the man won't measure up, which for all the reasons above can be pretty soul crushing.

So a lot of guys will just prefer to be with people who haven't been with that many men before, that way they can learn together without as much of the pressure. Ultimately, if men are comfortable with their standards and the results their standards bring them, then they aren't likely to change, and if women want men to be more willing to date those with high body counts, then they need to find a way to reduce some of the pressure to perform. At least in my opinion.

Maffioze · 2023-03-04T06:44:01+00:00

While I don't disagree completely I find this post to be too biased to take seriously.

Women are just as irrational and often even more when it comes to getting "the ick" and penalise men way more for things they didn't choose.

Caring about body count isn't any more irrational than caring about height.

10throwawayantsy · 2023-03-04T16:20:14+00:00

It shows hypergamy, lack of impulse control, and being a libertine

ProspectiveEngineer · 2023-03-04T17:50:57+00:00

Body count is the strongest predictor of infidelity, divorce, dissatisfaction and STDs.

Factors found to facilitate infidelity

Number of sex partners: Greater number of sex partners before marriage predicts infidelity

As might be expected, attitudes toward infidelity specifically, permissive attitudes toward sex more generally and a greater willingness to have casual sex and to engage in sex without closeness, commitment or love (i.e., a more unrestricted sociosexual orientation) are also reliably related to infidelity (pg.71)

Fincham, F. D., & May, R. W. (2017). Infidelity in romantic relationships. Current opinion in psychology, 13, 70–74.

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A truism in psychology is that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. This is no less true in the realm of sexual behavior. Indeed, one of the strongest predictors of marital infidelity is one’s number of prior sex partners (pg.6)

Haselton, M. G., Buss, D. M., Oubaid, V., & Angleitner, A. (2005). Sex, Lies, and Strategic Interference: The Psychology of Deception Between the Sexes. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 31(1), 3–23.

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Men apparently assess and evaluate levels of sexual activity by a woman prior to long-term commitment—behavior that would have been observable or known through social reputation in the small-group lifestyles of our ancestors. Past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior, and having a large number of sex partners prior to marriage is a statistical predictor of infidelity after marriage (pg.92)

Buss, D. M., & Schmitt, D. P. (2019). Mate preferences and their behavioral manifestations. Annual Review of Psychology, 70, 77–110.

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it would appear that the premaritally experienced females were more inclined to accept coitus with males other than their husbands after marriage. (pg.427)

Kinsey, A. C., Pomeroy, W. B., Martin, C. E., & Gebhard, P. H. (1953). Sexual behavior in the human female. Saunders.

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the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner (pg.150)

Whisman, M. A., & Snyder, D. K. (2007). Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of Family Psychology, 21(2), 147–154.

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Generally speaking, respondents who report extensive premarital sexual experience report extensive extramarital activity. Measures of the locus of first intercourse and number of premarital partners show positive associations with (1) rating one's marriage as less happy than average, (2) the number of different extramarital partners, and (3) the intention to participate in mate-swapping activities (pg.221-222)

Athanasiou, R., & Sarkin, R. (1974). Premarital sexual behavior and postmarital adjustment. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 3(3), 207–225.

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promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r2 = .45) as it did for males (r2 = .25). (pg.177)

Hughes, S. M., & Gallup, G. G., Jr. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178.

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Participants who had experienced sexual intimacy with a greater number of partners also reported greater extradyadic sex and extradyadic kissing inclination. (pg.344)

McAlister, A. R., Pachana, N., & Jackson, C. J. (2005). Predictors of young dating adults' inclination to engage in extradyadic sexual activities: A multi-perspective study. British Journal of Psychology, 96(3), 331–350.

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Sexual promiscuity was significantly positively correlated with emotional promiscuity [r(356) = .261, p < .001], as well with sexual infidelity [r(323) = .595, p < .001] and emotional infidelity [r(323) = .676, p < .001] (pg.390)

Pinto, R., & Arantes, J. (2017). The Relationship between Sexual and Emotional Promiscuity and Infidelity. Athens Journal of Social Sciences, 4(4), 385–398.

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Each additional sex partner between age 18 and the first union increased the net odds of infidelity by 1% (pg.56)

Treas, J., & Giesen, D. (2000). Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans. Journal of Marriage and Family, 62(1), 48–60.

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A preliminary ANOVA analysis revealed that individuals reporting a past history of infidelity tended to have a greater number of past sexual partners than those without a history of infidelity (controlling for age; M = 3.78 versus 1.24), F(1,376) = 52.16, p < .001, d = .81. (pg.351)

Barta, W. D., & Kiene, S. M. (2005). Motivations for infidelity in heterosexual dating couples: The roles of gender, personality differences, and sociosexual orientation. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 22(3), 339–360.

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Subjects reporting sex with men other than their husbands while they were married (who were 23% of the ever-married subjects) were significantly younger at first intercourse [17.7 versus 20.0 years, t(279) = 5.6, p < 0.011 and reported significantly more sexual partners [24.5 versus 3.9, t(280) = 6.5, p < 0.011 than did ever-married women who reported no extramarital affairs. (pg.150)

Essock-Vitale, S. M., & McGuire, M. T. (1985). Women's lives viewed from an evolutionary perspective: I. Sexual histories, reproductive success, and demographic characteristics of a random sample of American women. Ethology & Sociobiology, 6(3), 137–154.

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An indicator of whether or not the respondent has had previous sex partners is included and identifies the number of male sex partners the woman had previous to her relationship with her current primary partner… A history of numerous sex partners indicates a pattern or habit of sexual behavior that we expect will negatively influence sexual exclusivity in the current relationship. (pg.37)

Having previous sexual partners greatly increased the likelihood that a woman would have a secondary sex partner. In particular, a woman with 4 or more male sex partners prior to her primary relationship was about 8.5 times more likely to have a secondary sex partnerthan a woman with no previous sex partners… Having previous sex partners also increased the likelihood that dating and married women would have secondary sex partners. In particular, married women with 4 or more previous partners were 20 times more likely to have secondary sex partners than married women with no previous sex partners (pg.41)

Forste, R., & Tanfer, K. (1996). Sexual exclusivity among dating, cohabiting, and married women. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 58(1), 33–47.

Aromatic_Shop9033 · 2023-03-04T07:59:30+00:00

High body count shows someone is impulsive, hedonistic, and easily distracted when another person comes along.

No thanks.

DeshaunTalyor · 2023-03-04T06:39:46+00:00

Bitches really have no concept of what it's like dealing with high n-count women especially in relationships

This proves my point of why women will never understand the dating male experience

Anyways don't date those men then, problem solved

Crubbery · 2023-03-04T11:25:46+00:00

Having dated women across a range of body counts, the general trend I see, at least from anecdotal experience, is that those with high n-counts tend to have way more mental issues and worse social adjustment. I know 4 women closely who have a body count of over 25, all of these people are 22 years old:

My ex (n = 32 PiV, "at least a dozen more" sexual partners without PiV). She had diagnosed depression, anxiety, PTSD, and when we broke up was getting tested for bipolar. She said whenever she felt down she'd go through a "hoe phase" so she'd feel desired.
That exes best friend (n = 100+, "lost count in the hundreds"): Diagnosed bipolar. While at high school (16+) she would routinely skip classes to sneak out of school and have sex with random guys she met off Craigslist and dating apps in the "hoe field" (a field behind the school).
That ex's flatmate (n = "around 40"): diagnosed anxiety, she struggled to make friends and said she had sex because it was a way of making a connection and feeling like people were interested in her.
A university friend (n = 27). Diagnosed anxiety, attention deficit disorder, and depression. She no longer pursues sex, most of her n-count came from her teens, she said she was in a "pretty bad place mentally and doesn't want to keep repeating the cycle any more".

It could be the case that women with mental disorders are more likely to disclose their sexual history, and therefore there might be women I know who are socially well-adjusted with high n-counts but they're less likely to talk about it. However, that aside, women I know with high n-counts usually have the following in common:

A diagnosed mental illness, especially one that makes forming relationships with people more difficult (bipolar, anxiety, etc)
A need to feel desired, and they try to use sex to fill that gap.
They're much more willing to have sex with random people on ONS - more high risk behaviour.

I have found that women I've dated with lower n-counts tend to be more socially well-adjusted. Sure, there are women with high n-counts out there who are perfectly mentally stable, but usually high-n women are ones who have traits that don't lead to good relationships. They often have difficulty forming relationships with people, don't have strong self-confidence, and are big risk-takers who focus on the short term.

If restricting myself to low-n women means it's harder for me to date, that's fine by me - it's worked for me so far and my dating life improved considerably once I raised my standards. I may miss out on some high quality high-n women, but it works as a quick filter and generally excludes a lot of people I wouldn't be compatible with anyway. Stereotypical high-n women have a place in someone's romantic life, but not mine

SmarmyPapsmears · 2023-03-04T06:08:51+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Strict-Mistake-3114 · 2023-03-04T10:53:46+00:00

My wife twisted the truth of her past. And honestly, has damaged me and our marriage. To the point that I have zero interest in sex at all. It's been 4 months now, and it's a nightmare. I'm not going into details, but you can read my profile to understand what I mean.

For us who marry the girls that already had their fun and are just with the safe and stable guy now. It's a steaming shat sandwich.

WowYouMustBeJoking · 2023-03-04T12:40:23+00:00

You are overthinking it. It's just repulsive, that's all. We all hate how women are fixated on height and money and find it ridiculous, but that's just how things are. If anything, you have it better, because it's completely under your control whether you're attractive or repulsive as far as this factor goes. Men can't really control their height.

Bmiller1550 · 2023-03-04T07:05:28+00:00

It's just kind of off-putting for guys. In a similar way to how girls find needy men off-putting.

ArmDiscombobulated29 · 2023-03-04T13:56:07+00:00

I disagree because the people I have known with high body counts were not loyal. The girl with the highest body count I knew in my life married this guy and after just meeting her and her husband with my then girlfriend for the first time she offered an orgy and my gut immediately told me I bet she isn’t loyal because when she wanted to do the orgy her husband left and was pissed. I later confronted my now ex and asked if that girl cheats on her husband and my ex confirmed to me yes quite often because my ex did not want to do the orgy either. In high school the girls who were always looking for sex often had boyfriends and were openly cheating on them. So the reason I do not like women with high body counts to date is because in my opinion they are not good fits for ltr. They often are not loyal and have very low standards for who they fuck and also themselves. And the ones who I have known with high body counts and were not loyal I would not want to be my wife or the mother of my kids. My now wife did not have a high body count and we have sex almost everyday and I find it easy to trust her. She has a best friend who has a high body count and once again since my wife tells me everything that her best friend does that girl has also been caught cheating on her most recent boyfriend with one of her exes. I find high body count to be hard to trust and you can say it is because I am insecure but I would argue it’s from life experience and seeing it with my own eyes.

coolcpplearner · 2023-03-04T08:48:18+00:00

I mean they do though. We literally have scientific and peer reviewed studies on the subject showing that this is the case.

I hate how, mainly men, are fixated on someone's body count.

I hate how, mainly women, are fixated on trying to shame men for wanting low body count women (especially since it is something completely within your control).

SmarmyPapsmears · 2023-03-04T06:56:42+00:00

It determines if we want to commit to her or not, that's all

DrinkItInMan11 · 2023-03-04T09:33:14+00:00

It shows we have different views on sex, that's not very difficult to grasp mate.

96tillinfinity_ · 2023-03-04T13:06:49+00:00

Its not necessarily just the number itself, it is the decision making

Men, biologically, want to ensure paternity. The more partners she has, the higher chance the child is not his

Professor_Meep · 2023-03-04T09:38:01+00:00

The whole body count policing movement pushed by incels/red pill men is contradictory af. First of all, they say they want women with few sexual partners and even go to the extent of saying they want virgins. At the same time they complain that women don't give enough sex, that it's too difficult to finding women willing to have sex part with them. So how in TF would women having fewer/no prior sex partners do anything to improve or benefit them in any way whatsoever?? **If women were to have fewer sex partners that means they'd become even MORE selective and discriminating about who they have sex with, NOT less. This is literally basic math. Women having fewer partners = fewer opportunities for men to have sex.** It would also infinitely increase sexual competition between men, as women are going to be extremely picky about who they have sex with if they're limiting their # of sex partners to only a couple/handful over their lifetime. It would almost certainly make it impossible for men to have any casual sex because women would be very rigid about expecting longterm commitment before allowing men to have sex with them. Literally lower body counts for women would = an extremely more cutthroat and restrictive sexual market for men. How is this is not plainly obvious???

Second of all -a lot of women with "high body counts" don't end up there by choice or so-called "lack of sexual discernment" - they get there because men shamelessly lie and manipulate them into believing they want a future with them. They make women believe they're genuinely interested and then once they get them in bed they pull back and act all aloof and start mistreating them. These tactics are literally what Red Pill instructs and advocates. Women end up with high body counts and single mothers because of shameless pieces of shit who use and abuse them, and many a Red Pill man is among this group of assholes.

Professor_Meep · 2023-03-04T10:23:31+00:00

Further contradictions of body count policing: "Red pilled" men have a tendency to believe they are entitled to the most attractive women. They also have a fixation with body counts and want their highly attractive female partner to only have a couple prior sex partners, some even have the absurd expectation of this partner being a virgin. This overlap is only common among hot women who marry very young and therefore aren't available to them in the first place, and/or hot women who come from and adhere to strictly conservative backgrounds. Most women who are highly attractive have relationships in high school, and these relationships often don't last into college. By the time they leave college they have additional relationships.

Ultimately what these men are expecting is either a woman who is effectively a unicorn, or a woman who is barely into adulthood.

10throwawayantsy · 2023-03-04T06:04:12+00:00

Having a lot of sex also does not cause literally any anatomical change and I'm reporting comments who say that they do, because this forum does not need to be a space for blatant lies.

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-03-04T09:36:37+00:00

The only guys that care about body counts (putting aside the mental help aspects of it) are the insecure incels and Andrew Tate wannbies.

This is because they suffer with main character syndrome and believe they are the only “player” here, the rest of us are just characters in their lives, particularly the women are just here as fuck objects.

PonderingPeaches · 2023-03-04T06:39:36+00:00

Caring about body count is for the weak minded. But! I’ll always be amused by how desperately they try to convince people it matters, meanwhile, nearly none of us have ever even been asked. My personal favorite is how they can “tell” someone’s body count. Phew. Their fall from power has been far and unflattering.

wtknight · 2023-03-04T13:08:49+00:00

It seems extremely weird that people should be penalized simply because they don't meet someone that they like, as having a long-term relationship keeps body counts down. Just because someone hasn't found someone they like, long-term, they suck? Great, lol.

People shouldn’t be having sex that drives up a body count if they haven’t met someone they like enough for an LTR. That doesn’t seem weird to me.

Different_Weekend817 · 2023-03-04T10:35:22+00:00

you'd have to be a fool to turn down a beautiful woman just because she has a higher body count than your ideal, are you kidding me?? i fail to believe any man would do this in practice unless he's super religious and/or misogynist. anyway, personally i've never asked a woman her body count; i don't even know my own.

Usual-Leopard-9102 · 2023-03-04T06:06:31+00:00

If you get a paket from something you ordered online. You can say if you hold it with the weight if its seems plausible. Is it an absolute indicator? sure not. But its some and if you know what is important it can help in part.

Only the Body count sure its weird. But with other factors it can help. That it is extremly overestimated sure ! But its one of many factors that can give an indication.

A women that says she is searching for the right men since childhood and have sleept with 100 guys seem wrong. A women that said she had a phase when she was younger seems plausible. Okay 100 is a bit extreme lol. But the point is the context matters. And its of course not that important.

Im not stupid for me its not as easy as as low as possible its about why and how. In which age under which circumstances. How did she chanced. And of course at long as it isnt some realy extreme thing like the 100 guy thing. Sure.....But it doesnt chance the fact that it can be part of an indicator.

Capeninja · 2023-03-04T07:14:22+00:00

It seems extremely weird that people should be penalized simply because they don't meet someone that they like, as having a long-term relationship keeps body counts down.

If I'm looking for someone who's easy to please then naturally I'd avoid those who struggle to like the people they meet.

Some people want to have sex once a month, or less, and others get irritable if they don't have it everyday.

They should each date people who feel similarly. Personally I believe in sex as an expression of love, and would prefer to date those who share similar values.

I also feel like this all just goes to the simple concept of being angry that people enjoyed their lives before you.

Enjoying life before me is fine, the issue is if she seemingly enjoyed it more than she does dating me (having me wait longer for intimacy than other guys, not trying sex acts with me she tried with others, putting up with worse behavior from them than she accepts from me, etc.)

That isn't universally the case, but it's happened to many a guy's who's dated a formerly promiscuous woman that chosen to settle down with them. And sometimes the woman gets bored and starts looking for past experiences again.

If I'm seriously dating someone then they're my most important person, and I want to feel like that thought's mutual. But it's just hard to figure out where someone who's played the field stands. That isn't a judgment of them as people or partners, just of my own inability to reliably determine their character.

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Get_Cheersed · 2023-03-04T09:01:55+00:00

It’s speaks to the respect you have for your one day husband ( should that be what you want ) as well as yourself. Unfortunately sleeping around is just poor behaviour that shows a lack of respect for yourself and your future spouse.

Further to this men are allowed to have preferences just like women have their absolute laundry list of requirements. If this is the majority preference then it is what it is, same as how women want 6ft+ etc.

I apologise if this response is a bit blunt but I think I can speak for a lot men where we are immensely tired of being crapped on for absolutely everything by society, we can’t even have some bloody preferences like every other group on the planet without endless complaints

10throwawayantsy · 2023-03-04T06:05:41+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DoinIt989 · 2023-03-04T13:23:41+00:00

It also varies a lot based on culture, location, and age. A 23 year old from a small town with 10-15 past sexual partners raises a lot more eyebrows to me than a 30 year old with 20 partners who has lived in a big city (more opportunities to meet people, more "dating" culture).

odd_cloud · 2023-03-04T15:04:21+00:00

Well, I am quite annoyed by this whole n-count topic, becuase it seems pretty simple for me. But anyway, here is my humble opinion.

First, let's exclude extreme promiscuity from the discussion. I think, both men and women would would be cautious of a person who had hundreds of partners.

Second, let's exclude obviously insecure guys. I mean, if a guy feels weird because his girlfriend kissed a guy in hich school 5 years ago, he obviously has some spychological problems.

As for "normal" promiscuity, men would like to pair with someone who has comparable experience. Seriously dating someone with an extensive sexual past is similar to dating someone with much more money than you. It's possible, but has its difficulties.

For example, if I am a guy who had 3 partners, and I am dating a woman who had 30, there are some issues. First, it's obvious that girl "had fun" previously. If I am a guy with 3 partners in the past, I'd question "Where were all those girls when I wanted fun?". The fact this woman is interested in me for long-term relationship would make me think that I am good enough for commitment, but not enough for "fun". It kinda devalues you. Probably, the feeling is similar to what women feel when they are good enough for sex to a guy, but aren't enough for commitment.

Second problem follows from the first. This woman may decide in the future she wants some fun, which could probably lead to cheating or a break up. In addition, she may not be open to compromise in relationship, because the process of changing her boyfriend won't be that difficult for her. Finally, I think it's just better to be one the one wave with the person you date. It is more comfortable if two persons have a similar experience, so they could progress at a similar pace.

So, as I said, nothing too crazy about this whole topic.

Rexagon_2017 · 2023-03-04T22:33:47+00:00

It's illogical to do all kinds of things, absurdists have argued that life is illogical. Have you reached every opinion, want, or desire from first principles?

10throwawayantsy · 2023-03-05T09:06:41+00:00

And I hate how women are fixated on height.which they cannot change. Height metrics dont really determine anything either.

And even as you did so on the last part of your post, basically shame them for not agreeing.

Do men call women exploiting predators due to wanting tall rich high status men? No.

Why is women preferances ok but mens preferances are demonised?

A high body count is an indicator of a promiscuous women that wont be suitable for a long term relationship(this is my view) And status applies to both genders For men their status is lowered if their wife or partner is seen and viewed as a hoe. A high body count means less capable of connecting with a partner. A high body count means piling up bad experiences from previous partners and carrying that resentment.

So yes it does matter. To men mostly when looking for long term partners.

Title	"Body count" metrics don't really help determine anything
Author	10throwawayantsy
Upvotes	0
Comments	368
Date	March 4, 2023 6:01 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11hrbj9/body_count_metrics_dont_really_help_determine/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/body-count-metrics-dont-really-help-determine.1154533 https://theredarchive.com/post/1154533

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