CMV: "Emotional vulnerability" is true, albeit misleading

bottleblank · 2023-09-19T20:19:55+00:00

So we're supposed to be emotionally vulnerable otherwise you'll dump us for not being emotionally vulnerable, but we're not allowed to show you that until the time has passed and you've decided we're not emotionally vulnerable enough, because we didn't open up soon enough, and dump us anyway? Tell me, which particular nanosecond of the budding relationship is it that we're supposed to choose to display this particular quality, so as not to give you the ick one way or the other?

It's just the same as "have sexual energy" but "don't objectify us". Or "making you feel like the special one" but "not being desperate". Or "being a gentleman" but "don't be a patronising sexist".

This pile of nonsense contradictory expectations that we're somehow "it" but "not it" both at the same time, like some kind of Schrodinger's Partner. A shit-test minefield that we're supposed to weightlessly glide over and never trigger, always a hair away from "giving you a reason" to tell us how much we as individuals and as men just can't help but fuck it up and how that's always "our fault".

A pack of excuse cards that you can just pick and choose from whenever it suits you to justify not taking accountability for your part in what's supposed to be a relationship of compromise and mutual effort. A "get out of jail free" token to just kick dudes into the dirt for not being "perfect" without ever having to admit that maybe, just maybe, you have responsibility for having reasonable expectations, compassion, and patience as well. Because we can't have that, can we?

cactusbeam777 · 2023-09-19T19:04:52+00:00

So emotional vulnerability is good, but not too soon, not too much, and you still might get turned off by it anyway, got it.

MysterySolverDog · 2023-09-19T20:28:34+00:00

If you need to add this many disclaimers then sorry you don't actually like men being emotionally vulnerable. It can't be too soon, about something that makes you feel uncomfortable, can't be too vulnerable, and you have to otherwise be a strong and stoic rock. Also all women are different so you might just get judged negatively anyway.

To be blunt I don't think there's anything men can do at this point. I don't see how you can type this out and not realise it's unreasonable for men to have to navigate a minefield, particularly when they're feeling vulnerable.

Fire_Tiger73 · 2023-09-19T21:40:13+00:00

No, this is incorrect. Brené Brown's work showed that it's not about trauma dumping, it's that women want their male partner's inner emotional life to center around her and react with hostility when they don't.

Women don't like emotional vulnerability in men. They like emotional openness, when a man is open and has his defenses down but still can't be hurt. They like emotional invulnerability.

Obviously this is a generalization and not all women are like that, especially not all of the time. But it's generally true; the problem is that if we acknowledge that, we're acknowledging that women aren't perfect. And you'd rather run the line of bullshit in your OP than acknowledge that.

BoomTheBear86 · 2023-09-19T19:35:08+00:00

I think emotional vulnerability is an “idea over reality” concept when it comes to men being vulnerable.

Like the idea of having a partner be so attuned to you he shares his softer side is appealing and speaks to the woman in question obviously having that special something.

The reality however I think many forget is emotional vulnerability necessarily requires weakness displays, and often problems that prompt such, and I think far fewer women are equipped to deal with that side of it than the ones saying that men being emotionally vulnerable is attractive. Because it then requires them to step into a role they may not be used to playing.

TLDR the idea of being “the confidant” is way more attractive than the reality of being one.

webernicke · 2023-09-19T19:04:48+00:00

As ever when dealing with women, the challenge to men is "Guess what women want. See what happens."

Internal-Fig-7902 · 2023-09-19T20:15:40+00:00

Never open up to women emotionally and cry, they are hardwired to dislike you for showing weakness. Go cry to your father, he'll understand. Go cry in the shower under the running water. Don't even cry to your mother. "Show more emotions" is a shit test women do to really test your masculinity deep down.

abaxeron · 2023-09-19T21:35:11+00:00

So, become arbitrarily too vulnerable without any guidance on how much is too much, and it's a negative; do it too soon, and it's a negative; do it at all, and it may be a negative.

Do you see the problem in looking at these "unsaid important bits" and still insisting that women generally like emotional vulnerability in men?

"I generally like bacon, but if you make me bacon as your second cooking for me, our relationship is over; if you make too much bacon, it's a negative; and by the way, if you make me any bacon at all, i may just change how I view you".

The closest I see to anything making sense is your gross misuse of the word "like". It's not liking, it's some borderline tolerance.

Maffioze · 2023-09-20T07:24:16+00:00

I am still waiting for the people in this sub to realise that carefully catered vulnerability in the way the woman desires is not usefull vulnerability for the man.

You gain absolutely nothing of value by doing yet another performance this time in the form of vulnerability. It only makes you feel cheapened or worse.

THUNDER_SLAYER_777 · 2023-09-19T18:48:16+00:00

I advise men in general not to open up to women as she might leave him , mocks him or at least she loses a bit of her respect for him let alone doubting his ability to be her rock .

If you have a problems , work them out on your own .

sweetbrown89 · 2023-09-20T02:45:05+00:00

I saw another comment on here positing that it’s comparable to the male fantasy of a woman who’s sexy and sexually lusting after him and focused on his pleasure

The female fantasy is a man who allows her to be emotionally vulnerable with him, BUT without him needing to be emotionally vulnerable and focused on her needs

Key-Faithlessness-29 · 2023-09-20T04:14:43+00:00

Women don't just like men that's all

Independent_Score217 · 2023-09-20T07:43:51+00:00

Worst dating advice to give a man is "listen to what women say they want".

BlueBaals · 2023-09-20T04:42:33+00:00

I think people who use the wording “trauma dump” to describe another humans relation of “heavy” information have a selfish EQ and likely minimal to no experience with real trauma.

I also firmly believe it doesn’t matter what you say, as much as how you say it, for those who believe hearing another persons experiences is an energetic affront. Their mind was made up before any emotional information was communicated, any way.

People with low IQ & EQ are often easily hurt by aesthetics. A dent is a catastrophe and a crash unspeakable. People who care about EQ in an absurd rule-bound, Egoic la-la land like the number of dates qualifying self-expression burst many bubbles easily & often.

Such an delicate & quickly bruised fruit is best left on the shelf.

TheGreatBeefSupreme · 2023-09-20T10:42:55+00:00

A wise man once said that abstinence is easier than perfect moderation. My advice to men is just to abstain from expressing any kind of vulnerability or weakness at all. Everyone in your life, not just your girlfriend or wife, will like you better for it.

There are ways to deal with negative emotions that don’t involve other people. Philosophy and reflection are good medicine.

Pathosgrim · 2023-09-20T15:09:09+00:00

You contradict yourself alot. That isn't a healthy trait.

Ok_Smile_60 · 2023-09-20T17:37:33+00:00

Those disclaimers are completely true and are why it’s a terrible idea. My point ex said my emotional vulnerability was a reason she ended up cheating on me, even though she asked me too and was very supportive of me initially.

It’s not the rational part of your wife’s brain, is that primal part she can’t control that will make it and awful idea

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-09-20T00:39:47+00:00

My experience is that women generally want to be the first person to be vulnerable with the man creating a safe environment for her to do so and only then will she accept vulnerability from the man without getting the ick. Ofc not all women are like this

DopeAFjknotreally · 2023-09-20T01:52:43+00:00

Emotional vulnerability is great as long as she knows that you’re also still masculine

Vulnerability is necessary for connection. Connection is necessary for love.

But vulnerability doesn’t mean neediness. Many men got rejected for vulnerability because they expressed it in a way that showed that they needed something. Needed acceptance. Needed approval.

Be vulnerable. Be transparent. But also be the guy that will stand up for what he believes in, will assertively ho after what he wants, etc.

Epiphanic_Eros · 2023-09-20T01:02:17+00:00

This is very true. Emotional vulnerability means that you’re willing to show your weaknesses. But don’t do it right away. And don’t try to use your girlfriend as a therapist — that will ALWAYS turn her against you

ricar426 · 2023-09-20T02:02:39+00:00

Brazilian here.

This is, at face value, correct. Anyone would get dry facing trauma dunping.

In my experience, what have worked for me is mixing some humor and some vulnerability, but not in a tactical manner. My hurts are part of me, and getting to know me will include some of that.

I'll talk about a thing or two out if the environment is more conversational and IF the woman makes me feel comfortable enough, and I wouldn't share all of it lest it become a therapy session, and dates are for fun. This has never barred sex from happening when chemistry was strong enough, but if a gal were to be dismissive of my hurts, any horniness would end right away. I am old enough (M28) to not chase a person who dismisses my struggles. And so far the sex and the ladies were great! Most of them are friends and sexual partners in similar measure.

What annoys me in your CMV is the posture. "Be open, but not too soon!" "We hate your macho posturing, but keep it for a few dates, okay?" And I, as most men, have been vulnerable with women, dates and friends, and got burned for that, exposing some anxiety of insecurities and got the "man up" treatment, which always makes us think " they say they want it, but they hate us when we do it", and compounds into the global male loneliness problem.

It makes me think that American (Western) women are fickle and hypocritical about what they want from us.

DerayRevan · 2023-09-19T18:26:45+00:00

What the hell is this nonsense

2023-09-20T00:51:42+00:00

I think that what men oftentimes don’t understand is that we appreciate emotional vulnerability, but it needs to be in the right context, and from the person we’re expecting. Further, men oftentimes don’t realize that they need to build and retain value for themselves, and trust is oftentimes broken when we receive unpredictable emotions or actions. If it’s not there already and in good condition, please do not rework it over and over again and waste my time.

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Greedy-Heat631 · 2023-09-20T16:50:27+00:00

Yup it’s why it doesn’t make sense to “just be yourself” instead you should curate your best, most appealing qualities and lead with those. If she earns your trust you can tell her later about your closet anime addiction.

MidoriEgg · 2023-09-20T16:53:04+00:00

I think there’s a difference between emotional vulnerability and emotional weakness..

MotherPermit9585 · 2023-09-21T13:04:58+00:00

My perspective may be atypical since I work in healthcare and I’m accustomed to seeing men cry because I’m with them when real tragic shit goes down. Like I just told a man he has cancer… yeah, I expect him to cry. I just told a man his wife of 40 years should go home on hospice because there’s nothing else we can do… yeah, he should cry. A man just told me about his history of childhood SA… yes, cry.

I see these emotions as perfectly human and it makes me want to fight for them a little bit harder. This is in a professional context, but in romantic interactions it’s the same. In relationships I’ve never lost attraction for a man who cried in front of me. The men that have cried in front of me have been the ones that I felt the closest too and loved the most.

Now there are examples of what I would consider “frivolous tears” and imo these tend to be over abstract ideas and not life events. Examples: pretty much anytime John Boehner or Glenn Beck cried on camera. I’d also put Jordan Peterson’s tears in this category. Contrast that with when Obama cried after Sandy Hook which I saw as moving and humanistic. That’s my take on the difference but I may be just less charitable towards conservatives

One-Store2972 · 2023-09-21T19:31:42+00:00

Emotional vulnerability is sexy if it benefits the chick.

I’ve been told my entire life not to burden others, especially my spouse, and I’ve been told that women will simply leave you if you are an emotional burden. And we all know that not all women are the same therefore there is no way to gauge how tolerant she is so I simply shut up and rant to my friends who I could say anything to.

At this point I don’t want to show emotions to anyone except my closest friends cuz they’re the ones that won’t think I’m a burden

Deadwalking2k · 2023-09-23T01:17:29+00:00

This made the least amount of sense possible, and doesn’t help the women are not logical stereotype lol.

CMV: "Emotional vulnerability" is true, albeit misleading

The often unsaid important bits:

Comments

Title	CMV: "Emotional vulnerability" is true, albeit misleading
Author	Windmill_flowers
Upvotes	12
Comments	97
Date	September 19, 2023 6:20 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16myb09/cmv_emotional_vulnerability_is_true_albeit/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-emotional-vulnerability-is-true-albeit.1232349 https://theredarchive.com/post/1232349