"conditional femininity" vs "conditional masculinity"

Purple_Cruncher_123 · 2024-01-17T05:55:51+00:00

Do you feel these two justifications are equally valid?

Are these good strategies in general when approaching relationships?

So basically, I'm going to take a 'just trust me, bro' at face value and hope things get better. Which is more likely for someone with prior dating experience to have seen/experienced:

a) it will indeed change for the better at some magical flip-switch time, or

b) people often talk a big game but seldom deliver on it, and you'll get some lukewarm, half-assed version at best?

Do I think it's a good strategy? No, I think a person employing this is much more likely to end up dating people they aren't actually compatible with. Instead of going into dating with their best traits on display and looking for someone who can match that, they're putting a value-brand version of themselves out there and expecting a name brand version to match it.

Wattehfok · 2024-01-17T05:42:18+00:00

I mean...equally valid in the sense of being equally bullshit...

AngeCruelle · 2024-01-17T07:19:14+00:00

Ah yes. The masculine/feminine energy.

Honestly to me it's always just sounded like gender politics with some kind of pagan twist added to sound more quirky and enlightened in an era where it's trendy to act like you're a lost shaman from a tribe that no longer exists.

87AudreyHorne · 2024-01-17T08:32:07+00:00

Why are people on reddit constntly assuming women are submissive in nature, it's so gross. Just that word gives me the ick

RorschachRosettes · 2024-01-17T15:13:59+00:00

I mean, I'm not like a raging bitch that's out here castrating men left and right, but I have a healthy distrust of strangers, I'm not a weak person by any means, and I DO believe that one of the perks of being in a relationship with a person is that you get to experience a side of them that no one else does. And yes - some behaviors ARE earned. Its not safe to be vulnerable to just anyone who's willing to have you, and I mean, honestly? That's kind of a huge turn off.

I think that as a whole, when it comes to dating, everyone wants to be with someone who is exclusive with their romantic energy. I wouldn't want a man who's giving away his energy to anyone with a pulse, same as I'm sure my significant other wouldn't want me giving away the energy I put towards him to anyone else. The vulnerability that my SO and I give each other is special, and that's how it needs to stay.

And frankly? I've learned that men like it when a woman stands up for herself and is a little tough with strangers. Strong men don't like weak women, and vice versa.

Love-Is-Selfish · 2024-01-17T07:31:41+00:00

Are these good strategies in general when approaching relationships?

Putting aside that those descriptions of masculininty and femininity aren’t right, men and women should approach a relationship with someone they think is worthy of a relationship in a masculine and feminine way. And, if the other person turns out not to be masculine or feminine enough, then do something about it, like trying to get them to change or breaking up.

Cor_ay · 2024-01-17T06:55:05+00:00

Conditional femininity/masculinity = men will act feminine, and women will act masculine until both of their conditions are met.

What you’ve described here is really just “waiting”.

A man who engages in conditional masculinity in this context is essentially screwed, it’s not really an option for men. It’s also a poor decision for a woman to be conditionally feminine in my opinion, but that’s much easier to get away with.

Reasonable-Watch857 · 2024-01-17T05:49:40+00:00

Men have to be masculine literally all the time. We have to be assertive and capable leaders because we have to make our own fortune. Women in the West are on the whole, not feminine, and if her femininity is conditional on the man, what happens if he loses his job or gets sick? Therefore, if masculinity is really non-negotiable for a man, then that man can and should require the same of a woman and her femininity.

Pola_Lita · 2024-01-17T05:50:47+00:00

Neither are conditional. If you have to convince someone to act a certain way, best believe they’ll stop as soon as you do if not sooner

Women who cook, clean, are agreeable, reciprocal and men who provide, protect, strong, etc are naturally like that

If a woman says some shit like “I’m not cooking for you until you commit” or some shit about how you have to unlock her feminine side is obviously going to use you while they keep raising that carrot. You think the chick who hasn’t cooked a meal on a stove is just gonna suddenly start once married?

Same for men who say “I’ll start providing and gifting once you earn that out of me” it’s obviously bullshit but women can talk amongst each other freely about men and have coined “if he wanted to, he would” after sharing their experiences dating men so they don’t fall for the “conditional” shit as easily

ConanTheCybrarian · 2024-01-17T06:07:11+00:00

People do not have conditional personality traits. That's not a thing.

It is normal for all genders to need a safe space to be vulnerable. That IS a thing.

what is considered "masculine" and "feminine" is 90+% made up. Both have and will continue to change over time, culture, etc. Neither is fixed. So your opinion on them is just that- your opinion.

The implication that a woman must be submissive and a man must be a leader is myopic, usually based on inaccurate religious text translations, is unnecessarily constraining, and perhaps most egregious of all: is boring.

EulenWatcher · 2024-01-17T06:19:24+00:00

If we buy the idea of traditional femininity and masculinity where a man is assertive and a woman is submissive, the first condition makes more sense. A man is supposed to be leading in this relationship, so it’s on him to lead and prove himself.

Of course, I don’t buy either of these as I’m not into gender roles. I’m talking here as an observer of other people’s beliefs and customs without relating to them personally.

Fan_Service_3703 · 2024-01-17T08:49:52+00:00

I don't have any "masculine energy" (at least in a relationship context) and don't desire "feminine energy" so erm, damn.

MikeArrow · 2024-01-17T07:00:47+00:00

From my perspective, I feel it's better to present the best side of yourself up front. Lead with that and demonstrate your worth and hope to impress them enough to keep their interest.

TheRedPillRipper · 2024-01-17T08:50:53+00:00

Conditional femininity

I’ve probably encountered this type of woman, but have never kept them around long enough. To experience it.

for the right woman

I have never encountered a man, that is this way inclined, conditionally. Primarily because this caliber of man, don’t need conditions. To be who they are.

Godspeed and good luck!

KaleidoscopeOk9162 · 2024-01-17T14:22:47+00:00

“Strategies”. Jeez. Are we talking about dating or going to war? Be yourself respectfully while reading the room, change course within the apt boundaries if needed, be honest to yourself and to your partner, step down if it doesn’t work. The rest is head games

boom-wham-slam · 2024-01-17T10:48:17+00:00

Just how it works. If you're a masculine man and a good leader it takes about 3.5 seconds to get her all feminine.

complete_doodle · 2024-01-17T14:29:15+00:00

I do agree that there’s too much of a double standard here, but I don’t quite agree that the two are equally comparable. This is because “traditional femininity” often implies some amount of submissiveness to your male partner. When you’re confident that your partner is a good person, who has your best interests at heart, it is safe to submit to him. However, if your partner hasn’t proven himself to be this kind of person, submitting yourself to him could (and often does) result in an unbalanced, toxic, and even abusive relationship.

I still don’t believe that men should be expected to “provide for” their woman if she hasn’t shown that she’s worthy of it. But most of the other qualities of a “traditional man” - assertiveness, leadership, etc don’t carry the personal risk that female submissiveness does. It’s a personal safety thing.

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Pola_Lita · 2024-01-17T06:52:00+00:00

Do you feel these two justifications are equally valid?

Yes, though they seem contrived and labor intensive. Or based in distrust.

Are these good strategies in general when approaching relationships?

Who knows. I'd be much more comfortable with a partner whose natural personality contains what I need, but maybe some people need that sort of controlled reassurance. Probably suitable for a fetish-based relationship.

obviousredflag · 2024-01-17T12:18:40+00:00

Never heard of these strategies being applied. Never heard a man or a woman speak about needing a condition for their femininity or masculinity. In general, it's one of the worst approaches to approaching relationships to wait for the other side to commit before one opens up/commits/puts in effort/trusts/etc.

Most of the people i dated who had problems getting relationships have in common, that they put up walls around them, are on guard for getting their feelings hurt. They expected me to take the risk of commitment before they were comfortable to get on the same level. I don't fall in love with people who have their guards up and don't open up and let themselves fall into me, trusting me, feeling safe with me, risking to get hurt by showing emotional connection and commitment.

Try to be like securely attached people are. Not this insecure behavior. Gender is irrelevant.

shockingly_bored · 2024-01-17T12:36:02+00:00

I don't know about conditional masculinity, but maybe necessary masculinity? So much of the issues we encounter in our day to say lives do not require outright masculinity (or femininity for that matter) to deal with. So you can go through your day without being "masculine". That doesn't mean you aren't capable of it in situations where it is necessary. Or have to dial it up to 10 when you do.

Maybe women think it's an issue that men don't display masculinity when they'd like to see it? But that's the thing, that masculinity doesn't exist at the beck and call of women, but of the men in question. I choose to bring it out when I need it, not when you want it. And the way I go about doing it may not be to your pleasure but it's what works for me.

For example, I'm never going to start beating a person up because they threatened me or tried to sucker punch me. I'm not fucking cowering and backing away in fear though, I'm not letting them or anybody think that controls me. If most women deem that weak and feminine, they deem it weak and feminine. Because what they've done is make a definition of masculinity, found me wanting and icked themselves out because of it. They were always going to do that for one thing or another and I can't control that.

I can't really comment on femininity.

SlowEffective8146 · 2024-01-17T13:53:59+00:00

I know that's how a lot of people may think they behave, but they really don't. If someone is questioning your femininity or masculinity then you're probably NOT either of those things and they aren't actually conditional.

McTitty3000 · 2024-01-17T20:42:35+00:00

They're equally valid in that anybody who was to say them is full of it and you should avoid a relationship with those kind of people

Literal_Jesus_ · 2024-01-17T21:27:52+00:00

Read “Intimate Communion” by David Deida it tackles masculine and feminine polarity within relationships and how each can bring out the other.

apresonly · 2024-01-17T23:45:20+00:00

trust and vulnerability is for people you have built trust with, not for strangers

neither men nor women should put themselves in vulnerable situations or implicitly trust strangers

so i do think it is equally valid for men and women to withhold aspects of their gender role that can be taken advantage of by strangers until they can see that the person is trustworthy and a safe person to be vulnerable with

Title	"conditional femininity" vs "conditional masculinity"
Author	Windmill_flowers
Upvotes	10
Comments	105
Date	January 17, 2024 5:27 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/198oymx/conditional_femininity_vs_conditional_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/conditional-femininity-vs-conditional-masculinity.1243194 https://theredarchive.com/post/1243194

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