N COUNTS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD

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CROSSPOST FROM A VENT SUB

Gave bj to my casual partner and regrets it after he said something

I had a casual relationship with a guy whom I stopped talking to 6 months back. He often used to text me and I used to ignore him but recently I was bored and thought of replying him. So eventually today, he ended up coming at my flat and we made out for the first time in a while but we took in on the next level where I gave him a bj and he rubbed his penis on my clitoris (not inserted)and i didn't feel good at any point of the makeout session. Though he didn't force me to do anything. At the end he said me something like now we did everything i'm done w you or I don't want anything else from you.(He doesn't have sex with anyone) Which makes me regret like hell. He's a guy who needs to be around girls sexually and can't stay without intimacy for long. I knew this but just that one sentence of his makes me regret it. I confronted to him about how, what does he mean by it and he says that he was just joking. How do I not let the regret consume me as what is done is done.

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[–]GridReXXredder than dudes (lady mod) [score hidden] 4 months ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheRedPillRipperAn open mind opens doors. [score hidden] 4 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheRedPillRipperAn open mind opens doors. [score hidden] 4 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MuscletovMaroon pill man [score hidden] 4 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spread-Em-PlzHyperactive Prettyboy, man! 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Spread-Em-PlzHyperactive Prettyboy, man! [score hidden] 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]winter_lover28Casual>Relationship 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 8 points9 points10 points 4 months ago (70 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXredder than dudes (lady mod) [score hidden] 4 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (28 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago (16 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 -1 points0 points1 point 4 months ago (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 -1 points0 points1 point 4 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]salphonPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]InnocentInvasionTheyGonSkipThisPart⏩🎯💯 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]InnocentInvasionTheyGonSkipThisPart⏩🎯💯 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Grow_peace_in_BedlamMarried Leftist Red-Purple Man, late 30s, DeCrowist -1 points0 points1 point 4 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueshinxNo Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bitch_King-of_Angmardialectical materialist 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 9 points10 points11 points 4 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Grow_peace_in_BedlamMarried Leftist Red-Purple Man, late 30s, DeCrowist 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]InnocentInvasionTheyGonSkipThisPart⏩🎯💯 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 8 points9 points10 points 4 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Rule_Number_7No Pill Woman 🍁 waiting ≠ uninterested or low libido 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Rule_Number_7No Pill Woman 🍁 waiting ≠ uninterested or low libido 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]84JPGNo Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t know a single man, and I know many, with highly promiscuous pasts who struggle dating. Even if she’s bothered by it, any man who has been able to have sex with so many women almost certainly has something that makes her compromise on that (whether it’s straight up sociopathic manipulation skills, looks or status).

I don’t actually think women are lying or virtue-signaling when they claim on the internet that they don’t want men with high N counts; I think they do believe that theoretically, it’s just that in real life any man who has such a past, will almost certainly have something special that most likely will get those same women to cast aside that principle in exchange for commitment from that man.

Every woman I know is disgusted by men who do it with sex workers, though. I’m not very knowledgeable of the Bonnie Blue thing, but AFAIK those men paid or did something to do that? I’m guessing most women would be repulsed by that in itself regardless of the man’s body count.

In my experience, it’s probably worse for a man for a woman to know he has a average count but that he has had sex with a prostitute or two than her knowing that he has had hundreds of hookups and casual relationships.

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Axis_ControlLow n princess 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Intelligent-InsightLesbian trapped in a man's body 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 6 points7 points8 points 4 months ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Grow_peace_in_BedlamMarried Leftist Red-Purple Man, late 30s, DeCrowist 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ainsleygzintrusive thot ♀ 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Good-Preparation-811 -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 months ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

25f… probably black pilled

What to do when men you date keep red pilling you or talking about red pill topics?

They don’t know that I know about these spaces and concepts. But they always keep bringing it up.

I feel like it forces me out of my feminine, mindset and put me in a more masculine role, as if I am their friend/homie.

I want to be nurturing and nice and peaceful. But when then topics come up I immediately feel like I can’t be those things. Hard to be soft when the topic is “women have no accountability or women shouldn’t lead” etc. How am I supposed to respond to that in a feminine way? Seriously. Should I just say yes, you are right, nod my head, and be done with it? Like how can I talk about these super unloving non affectionate things in a feminine way? I wish we could talk about astrology or something soft…. But they don’t like that. And won’t engage. But I don’t like talking about rp and harems and options. And don’t want to engage with that. Feel like I am a cross roads

I don’t want them to know I am red pilled. And I don’t want to talk about it. But they alwayssssss bring it up.

What do I do!?

[–]CactusBroManPurple Pill Woman 6 points7 points8 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Axis_ControlLow n princess 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]InnocentInvasionTheyGonSkipThisPart⏩🎯💯 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PSXSnack09AntiPorn | No Pill Man - Blue pill fatigue 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 months ago (23 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ta06012022Man 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Axis_ControlLow n princess 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Grow_peace_in_BedlamMarried Leftist Red-Purple Man, late 30s, DeCrowist 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]grillopieThats like, your opinion Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]gtbreddit1Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]CelicnisGhostAscended past Red Pill Man -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lift_and_LurkMan: all pills are dumb 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoWoman 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Grow_peace_in_BedlamMarried Leftist Red-Purple Man, late 30s, DeCrowist 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]ta06012022Man 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatBitchAMarried ♀️ w/High Standards 💍 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]PopeoathRed Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 4 months ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Clearly it is about feeing inferior to the woman too if you feel a need to “catch up” in n count relative to her.

No, that's not how the thought process works.

The way it goes is, men were naturally born with the desire to sleep with many women. But the man regulates that after social conditioning that this is careless behavior, and that one should focus on seeking a loyal relationship with one partner instead.

Normally it's simple to tolerate, and the man is able to keep his nature in check.

But if he finds out that this partner he suppressed his natural instincts for themselves slept with a (relative) bunch of people, it suddenly becomes much more difficult to restrain his initial inclinations.

He wonders why he's limiting himself to this bog standard relationship at length when his partner either had shorter more flighty relationships or outright bypassed relationships for intimacy.

Basically it's a, "you broke 'the rules', why am I following them?" thing. The scenario triggers a flare up of quelled desires. Men's minds are subconsciously looking for any excuse to be promiscuous/cheat and sometimes the only thing restraining him is his partner's innocence... Which isn't something his mind will recognize if she literally has a higher n or sociosexuality than him.

And doubly problematic is that his mate guarding instincts go haywire if his partner was more sexually adventurous than him. This is a component of biology, men not being able to ascertain parentage.

I think this is more deeply about being jealous that women can get something you want without working for it

As stated that form of jealousy applies regardless of the woman. If the dude is going to be jealous of women it's going to be of all women universally, since nigh all women are offered the opportunity to date without doing work. Whether the woman's n is 0 or 1,000 she still has more access, which is the source of the jealousy.

All the actual n-count adds is an additional component of hatred. Either misogynistic disgust, or resentment over being "left out" of the fun (made worse in the scenario that the woman all of a sudden wants something "serious" i.e. loyal and boring with him).

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He wonders why he's limiting himself to this bog standard relationship at length when his partner either had shorter more flighty relationships or outright bypassed relationships for intimacy.

This seems to make sense if you think casual is superior to a relationship, and monogamy is something you’re forcing yourself into just to be socially acceptable. Like sex is more of a reward to you than a deep emotional connection.

Basically it's a, "you broke 'the rules', why am I following them?" thing. The scenario triggers a flare up of quelled desires. Men's minds are subconsciously looking for any excuse to be promiscuous/cheat

resentment over being "left out" of the fun (made worse in the scenario that the woman all of a sudden wants something ”serious" i.e. loyal and boring with him).

All of this seems to just confirm that. I don’t think all men inherently share this opinion. I understand how sex gets pedestalized for guys at a young age because they’re horny and it’s hard to attract girls period, but that doesn’t mean sex stays on its high pedestal for men who go on to be successful and confident in attracting women and in what they have to offer. Since I believe you’ve said before that you are a virgin, perhaps you are heavily biased here?

This is a component of biology, men not being able to ascertain parentage.

This shouldn’t be relevant at all since your argument is that the real thing that matters is that the man’s n count is just higher than the woman’s.

Whether the woman's n is 0 or 1,000 she still has more access, which is the source of the jealousy.

Sure I get that. That’s why it seems a lot of men don’t like when women really have any sex with other men , because they don’t like that she got something they covet without needing to work for it. A lot of guys get disgusted at the woman, instead of just understanding that there is always a price for anything. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

[–]Just_Alternative3167moid 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Imagine some guy, mid-20s, virgin, no romantic experience whatsoever. He's not a hateful incel and neither is he ugly (let's say 6/10), he's just kinda shy and unlucky.

Ultimately he desires a long-term relationship with some woman whom he desires strongly and has high standards for. However, his inexperience at his age increasingly affects his self-esteem to the point he is really intimidated by women. He struggles to flirt and feels inadequate, as many older virgins do.

Now let's say he has two options:

Try to lose his virginity and get some sexual experience in through whatever means possible (excluding paying for it). That means chatting up/swiping right on a chubby 3/10. He is attracted to her to the point that he could get it up but would never consider a relationship with her.

This might get the chip off his shoulder and boost his confidence immensely which would increase his likelihood of success once he actually meets the girl of his dreams.

Keep up his high standards and only entertain pretty (in his eyes) women he considers relationship-material.

To get the ethical constrain out of the way, let's say the 3/10 is mostly fine with "pumped and dumped"/casual.

What would you recommend him to do?

[–]Albedo200Purple Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 4 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Just_Alternative3167moid 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MonochromaticPrismPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This really depends on your local environment. The largest variable by far is whether this guy has access to any kind of recurring social or community event/task/hangout/etc that is attended by women in his age range. Women overwhelmingly prefer guys they have seen and interacted with positively in a social context (it's how 70-90% of relationships started in the past), and the guy in question is far more likely to connect with a young woman that is otherwise "off the market". My recommendation would be to invest elevated personal time and resources to participating in and/or contributing to whatever that thing is.

If not, I would just recommend trying to get dates, even if only one-off, until the dynamic becomes comfortable. The source doesn't really matter, it could be from direct approach or via dating app. My only advice would be not to fake interest or "settle", that either involves making unhealthy psychological connections in relation to yourself or towards your partner (the general entity, not the specific individual), and both of those should be avoided.

On the "experience" front, I would recommend doing research. And by this I mean actual research, this is an area of scientific knowledge with insightful and useful data. Heat maps of a woman's most common primary and secondary erogenous zones and known methods of stimulation, the actual use cases for different positions and position variants, different levels of foreplay and how how far ahead of time they should start to be applied for best effect. Even basic details like "if you are worried about lasting long enough you should masterbate ahead of time", although this can have the issue of making it so you can't orgasm depending on the length of your refractory period, which may not be desirable for different reasons. So many men don't put any effort into learning this info, not to mention actually being prepared and willing to actually apply it, that as long as you are capable of generally reading the feedback your partner is giving you it should be possible to outperform even many men that would consider themselves "experienced".

Edit: Taking a single in-person instructional course on massaging (the profession) wouldn't go amiss either, how good you are with your hands (both for direct and secondary uses) is a fairly important variable all on its own.

[–]CelicnisGhostAscended past Red Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]mobjackMan | Husband Material 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rule_Number_7No Pill Woman 🍁 waiting ≠ uninterested or low libido 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Being drunk doesnt excuse most of the other things people do

I don't think casual sex requires any excuse. I'm just pointing out that it's mostly drunk people hooking up.

This was your quote:

If your date isnt willing to have sex with u even after 4 or 5 dates even though she has had one night stands and casual sex in the past, then it is a major indicator she isnt attracted to you.

If she only had casual sex while drunk and she always waited to have sex with every other guy, the variable is alcohol. If you've only been around her sober, then she's treating you like every other guy she's dated sober. There's no reason to think she's less attracted to you.

The idea that all the guys she met while drunk were more attractive to her than all the guys she dated sober isn't very logical. The difference in her behavior isn't attributable to the guys' attractiveness. It's attributable to alcohol.

If you morally object to casual sex, then it's fine to object to dating someone who's had casual sex, even if they were drunk. But that doesn't sound like the issue here. It sounds like you're fine with casual sex and the issue is that she isn't having casual sex with you.

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Does anyone have an argument against expecting to be treated sexually as good or better than "her" previous partners. I don't care how many bodies she has (within reason, I'm not looking for that lass that pumped 1000' in 24 hours) but I do care about being made to jump through hoops if other's had easier access.

I've walked out on a 6 month long relationship after learning she made me wait. Friends of hers were over telling stories having a laugh. I don't regret the relationship at all had a great time however I've got my deal-breakers. I was told my reaction was unfair - so I come online to try and find answers. I'd love to not give a shit. I know it comes from a place of insecurity - but even my psychologist said man, it's not unreasonable and insecurity isn't inherently a bad thing.

Anyone got some feedback or retort. Happy to extrapolate.

[–]MonochromaticPrismPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I know it comes from a place of insecurity

I'd say it might be the opposite. She was insecure about her past because she was previously comfortable with having fun and letting go, but once she came across someone that she was interested in long term she felt ashamed of her personal behavior, thus hiding it, and played out events differently because she didn't want it to end the way all those relationships did.

In this case I would attribute your own reaction more to the breaking of trust due to finding this out via her friends "letting it slip" instead of her explaining what her own past was actually like to you directly.

That would also explain your somewhat "extreme" response, as finding out your partner has been dishonest with you about their own beliefs and values is a very big deal. Whether or not it's forgivable is up to you, but based on the provided information I wouldn't necessarily chock it up to malicious intent, not when self-shame also explains the pattern of behavior.

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True

Given your above example, you ask her out on Friday after work.

You take her to a nice bar nearby that serves counter meals, have a couple of lemon lime & bitters and a schnitty and chat for hours. She begs off coming back to yours claiming it's too soon. She's cheeky with the comment, you kiss and she puts her hand on your chest but then pushes you away.

Do you/I have a right to feel like there's a disparity between outcomes taking context into account?

I would not be interested in continuing dating after that date if I knew she had hookups in her teens.
I would not be interested in continuing a relationship if that information ever surfaced later.
Just because I'm older and the environs are different doesn't mean I want to be treated less desirably than some drunk horny dude at a frat. I WANT that level of attraction, the lead you up the stairs with a smile from day DOT. I'm not expecting someone who has never engaged in that behavior to suddenly be overcome with desire and throw her discipline and willpower out the window but I'm sure as hell not following around a girl for an extended period when other, less valuable, less date able men didn't have to.

Is this a fair enough position?

[–]ta06012022Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you/I have a right to feel like there's a disparity between outcomes taking context into account?

Maybe. A girl who's blackout drunk at a frat party is in a very different state than the woman who's had a couple light drinks with you on a first date.

There were guys in my frat who managed to hook up with some very drunk girls who were way hotter than any girl they actually dated. Those girls weren't super attracted to those guys. They were just very drunk and shit happened. Not condoning it, but that's the reality of a lot of hookups.

I'm sure there are plenty of girl's I hooked up with in college who wouldn't have slept with me on the first date sober. Drunk people and sober people operate differently.

If this woman engaged in a bunch of sober hookups previously, maybe that's different, but sober hookups are fairly rare.

[–]Icy_Ad_4544<< WOMAN >> 💖*~ Chad’s Mom ~*💖 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]EpiphronsRed Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Include all factors that you think don’t fall into “attractiveness” then just include them. Because I’m not talking about how we look when using the words sexual attraction. That term encompasses the whole thing and realistically is irrelevant. I don’t care what the deciding factor is only that I have it right? I’m not looking for a magic bullet that will have women putting out on first dates all the time - I’m looking to challenge a stance and understand how the other half think. Men just agree with me en masse.

I’m not expecting a woman to drop drawers in the first 5 mins of meeting. However if you have gone out with the girlfriends, had a few cocktails and found a willing guy who met some arbitrary list (fill in the blanks, but I’m not saying he’s even attractive) then screwed his brain out for your own gain; how is a future partner supposed to feel about being told after a beautiful date who in this example you are considering dating, supposed to feel about being told to wait. I want what that guy in the club had to make you screw his brains out, that’s the kind of relationship I want. Ideally you have never done that and so the behaviour on the date making me wait is genuine and representative of you as a person. What irks me is finding out we are acting a lie later down the track and the whole journey being a waste of time. I had fun. I can’t be blamed for not knowing variables I had no desire to learn - but as you share stories or friends to, or you need help deleting emails these things come out. It’s inevitable.

Hopefully this clarifies the difference between an attractive man and being attractive, or being attracted.

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[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago (17 children) | Copy Link

There are other factors outside of looks that go into how quickly a woman can feel comfortable enough to have sex, that are not in the woman’s hands at all. How forward or affectionate he is, how safe and relaxed he can easily make the woman feel, how early logistics are set up to make sex more likely to feel convenient to “just happen”. Women respond strongly to all these things because we usually take on a more passive role in the early stages. Even red pill seemed to grasp this.

So women do not tend to think “hmm I’m not very attracted to this new guy, but if can make him perform then maybe I’ll give him pity sex as a reward.” Like no, she either is attracted enough to you and is open to sex once she feels comfortably seduced, or she isn’t.

I think the best IOI in early dating is how agreeable and engaged she acts towards you in general.

[–]Just_Alternative3167moid 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EpiphronsRed Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago (15 children) | Copy Link

How forward or affectionate he is, how safe and relaxed he can easily make the woman feel, how early logistics are set up to make sex more likely to feel convenient to “just happen”.

You don't think that this relates to sexual compatibility?

I think the best IOI in early dating is how agreeable and engaged she acts towards you in general.

Strongly disagree. Most if not all dates have high levels of agreeableness and they are typically engaged. High earner in sales, so I know how to hold a conversation!

So women do not tend to think “hmm I’m not very attracted to this new guy, but if can make him perform then maybe I’ll give him pity sex as a reward.” Like no, she either is attracted enough to you and is open to sex once she feels comfortably seduced, or she isn’t.

Nobody is asking for pity sex. I'm actually hoping for the direct opposite!!!! I'm hoping I'm so attractive to them, either intellectually, physically or emotionally that they overcome their inhibitions and WANT to sleep with me. The duration doesn't matter - what matters is that my outcomes match or exceed previous experience. This is the only measurement I've been able to track so far that helps re-affirm her place in my heart.

The only reason I can't make this judgement call on my end is because I have to assume that whatever timeline I'm presented with initially is the standard, it's not fair to start the Spanish inquisition because of my preferences! It's also not fair to keep leading these ladies on. I'd rather not go through another 6 months to end with disappointment; I'd rather spend it with the one.

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

You don't think that this relates to sexual compatibility?

Not necessarily, no. Especially because a lot of sex happens under the influence of alcohol, which lowers inhibitions and is a shortcut to “comfort.” Plenty of times also my friends have been disappointed by guys who they slept with more quickly than others. The circumstances were just more conducive for sex. Women know in any moment if they feel sexually attracted to you, or not.

Strongly disagree. Most if not all dates have high levels of agreeableness and they are typically engaged. High earner in sales, so I know how to hold a conversation!

It’s not just being agreeable and engaged in a friendly conversation, but in general, including outside of dates. Like are they eager to hold conversations too, are you not talking too much about yourself or seeming too needy, are you building tension and intrigue with them, etc.. Those are things that will help make them want to reciprocate the energy and move things forward.

Nobody is asking for pity sex. I'm actually hoping for the direct opposite!!!! I'm hoping I'm so attractive to them, either intellectually, physically or emotionally that they overcome their inhibitions and WANT to sleep with me.

I understand, but when you say that a woman is treating you “worse” if sex doesn’t come on at least the exact time timeline as another guy, you seem to imply that the women enjoy being the one calling the shots early on, and that they choose exactly when and how much they want to have sex, based on things you can’t control. The women who want to lead the courting phase are a small minority of women. Most women want to feel like they’re being seduced and made comfortable.

The only reason I can't make this judgement call on my end is because I have to assume that whatever timeline I'm presented with initially is the standard,

I think ultimately the problem with this mindset is that it’s a very passive one. Like you expect the women to not want to be seduced, and take the reins for you? To put it bluntly like just_alternative said, this sounds like it could be a skill issue. Especially if you have a pattern of being able to get multiple dates, but you’re still always frustrated with sex timelines.

[–]EpiphronsRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Appreciate the response.

The last paragraph quoted was actually me justifying being in relationships with unsuitable partners.

I kinda can’t ask on a first date when they fucked their previous dates (just whip out a calendar).

I’m trying to fix this because I’ve had to leave after having started committed relationships and then discovering we are incompatible through various situations; typically discovering information I had no intention of asking about post-commitment offered willingly by the social circle or being betrayed by devices.

Yeah it’s tough, I know there are lots of reasons someone wouldn’t be interested in sex arbitrarily. It could be menstruation. It could be they just came from the gym. It could be someone died recently. They might be stressed from a vets bill. They might not have cleaned up their room. They might have IBS. It’s not fair. But neither is making the other party jump through hoops like a trained dog. Most women are not sexually empathetic enough to make the effort to compensate; if any of those prior relationships had transparency, had qualified my needs proactively and taken steps to make me feel like the most important sexually then my reaction probably would have been different. In the dating space women are takers in my opinion, in my experience and it sticks in my craw.

I’m not here just stuck on the one issue neurodivergently, it’s just an easy way to pull half baked responses and challenge the logic and psychology behind WHY it’s acceptable to treat men unfairly, sexually when supposedly the person you are engaging with is vetted enough to explore the idea of a relationship with. I’ve gotten a lot of good data today, will let it percolate!

[–]Corbast7Blue woman / Feminist + Leftist / no war but class war 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I kinda can’t ask on a first date when they fucked their previous dates (just whip out a calendar).

Right because it gives the impression that you look at sex in an objectifying light, and you know that that’s unappealing.

I’m trying to fix this because I’ve had to leave after having started committed relationships and then discovering we are incompatible through various situations; typically discovering information I had no intention of asking about post-commitment offered willingly by the social circle or being betrayed by devices.

Any examples?

It’s not fair. But neither is making the other party jump through hoops like a trained dog. Most women are not sexually empathetic enough to make the effort to compensate;

Then don’t “jump through hoops.” You should feel like she’s reciprocating the same energy and effort into you that you are giving to her. Otherwise she’s just not that into you. You take one step forward, and see if she follows to matches you. Dating is like a dance. Nobody needs to be “sexually empathetic” (?) because sex is not a charity service; it should feel like you’re both on the same page at every step.

In the dating space women are takers in my opinion, in my experience and it sticks in my craw.

Idk if you’re just talking about the early stages and sex, but feeling resentful towards women like this is probably not gonna help you at all. You can’t move freely if you’ve got a stick up your butt. As long as you keep seeing women as being at fault and “unfair” towards you, I don’t think much will get better.

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[–]LivinMidwest [score hidden] 4 months ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

I get where you are coming from. If I were single and dating, if I suggested sex on the first date and was rejected, only to find out later their sexual history involved a number of just met the guy ONS, she would never be an LTR option. I refuse to be treated less than. Along the same lines, those who claim she matured and was no longer promiscuous, I’d wonder if the sex overall would be as exciting, fun, risk-taking, etc. Years ago I read an article by a sorority girl. She said that when the young woman walks across the stage at graduation, she is no longer a slut. This is a horrible way to change sex. It is like saying all the fun, risk taking sex was exclusively for the college guys. Future sex will now be less than. It seems this is how many women think. High school or college years, suggest to a guy a quicky in the bathroom. Future husband, sex is now routine, always at home, etc.

Also, can we stop with using the “insecurity” word nonsense? I always see folks using the words “insecurity” or “jealousy” when trying to shame a person who has an issue with another’s sex past. These words are negative, which is why they are used to shame the person. The reason I cared is because I had missed the boat and was a later bloomer. My issue was one of both regret and relatability. Why would I want to be with someone who I couldn’t relate with and would also be a constant reminder of amazing experiences I missed out on in life? My issue had nothing to do with jealously or insecurity.

Your issue is one of fairness and equal treatment. If quick sex was freely handed out to others, why does first date sex when older get such a bad rep? So what if date might be a pump and dump. Making the guy wait won’t change that. He will just wait till third or whatever date sex and then dump. However a guy who would look fondly on the excitement of first date sex and is feeling LTR potential gets denied. He then has to find out 5-20 guys in the women’s past just had to be of her acquaintance from anywhere of five mins to maybe a handful of hours before they are both naked and having an amazing sexual experience.

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Thanks. I’m using others words like insecurity to head off arguments or I spose’ because I’ve been told these things before. I’m happy to hear that others agree with me.

For me it’s not really about the quality of the sex - moreso just wanting to be treated fairly. If she made everyone wait 3 dates then sign me up! I’m not worried. I’d be happy and have happily waited. It’s just retroactively at least in my experience the couple of women I’ve dated that I’ve then gone on to seperate from because of this issue have made a huge deal out of it. Trying to confirm that others feel and act the same way and also seeing if someone has a golden bullet to maybe overcome this dealbreaker. I’d be the first to admit I’ve walked away from a really nice suitable lady who treated me well purely because I realised I wasn’t top of her list in terms of sexual attraction or chemistry. We built that shit. But I’m not interested in being second or third, I’d rather keep looking. I’ve no kids. Never married and earn well. 0 chance of infidelity. I know my value right. But I won’t lie it does interfere with what on paper would be a great relationship and has broken a few hearts.

Thanks for reinforcing that I’m not insane.

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[–]LivinMidwest [score hidden] 4 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You aren’t insane, but I will throw this out there. Understand there is a societal belief that after one’s promiscuous phase (For US culture, I’d say mid-20s to late-20s, depending on region), putting out early is seen as getting painted as being easy. Society gives a pass on this behavior (to some extent, and individual opinion matters as well) so long as one was young and sowing their wild oats. When the women were told of the reason, did any say they actually were open to sex as the first date progressed, but in general they just box those desires up?

I say this because if you really want a life long companion and find someone who seems hypocritical with just the timing of the sex, you might need to work on overcoming that one issue. There is a good chance she thought about sex with you during the first date, but there is that societal standard that serious LTR focused first dates don’t involve sex. Maybe a makeout session, maybe her bra comes off, but oral and PIV are usually considered a no no on this type of first date.

I would be more worried about other sexual related issues than defeating the first date sex goaltender. For me, how wild was she with sex? Did she wear more sexy outfits during her youth, but while having the same hot bod, she is more conservative? Did she used to wear skimpy bikinis to the beach and pool, but her style now is a lot more coverage? Did she have sex on the beach during college, but now is scared to take a risk doing the same for me? Erotic piercings are one of my kinks. Did she have any in the past that were removed and would she be willing to put them back in? For me, I would need the full, unaltered promiscuous goddess that she was for others.

[–]EpiphronsRed Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 4 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean ideally shes not promiscuous and this isn't an issue at all but I'm dating in early 30's. It's not common to find. I'm also hyper aware of peoples body language and reading between the lines so I don't typically need to ask questions directly to know the answer.

I agree; there are other measurements you can use. I've only selected this goalkeeper as it's the one I've personally had relationships collapse over & I daresay it's less negotiable than the examples you gave.

I don't mind being in a relationship and pointing out hypocrisy - I'm only trying to overcome things I find deal breakers rather than something negotiable. If she wasn't willing to put back in piercings but was happy to be tied up & hadn't done that with a previous partner - even better? I think this "thing" if I could overcome it with logic would then relax the muscle... hopefully lead to me being more accepting.

Its hard because It is stopping me from having positive experiences and the only person it hurts is me (not really but for the purposes of this argument the only part I care about).

You are not wrong that the cards are stacked against me. I really wish people didn't try so hard to present the best version of themselves. I definitely don't when dating.

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You could communicate it by just being blunt and saying it. I think a tiny percentage of women would get the point. If they really felt you were LTR marriage minded, would likely be down with first date sex. However, talking about such an off the wall topic will more than likely seem weird to most, and likely kill any positive vibes the woman has for you.

One issue is that for relationship focused women, society seems to dictate promiscuity be severely curtailed around one’s mid-20s or so. As such, many women would almost always default to no first date sex. There seems to be an exception for the “forever single” cohorts. I have read many articles where women think having sex on the first date automatically paints her non-worthy as an LTR. Thing is I’ve read comments from women about first dates where they admit there is a desire to engage in at least some sort of sexual activity, but they don’t want to seem “easy,” so they don’t pursue any sex and if they guy does, he gets they whole “Too early.” speech. So you wait, date six months, learn she had a fairly promiscuous phase in the past, find out 5-30 guys got sex after a first meet-up (not even a date!). That would likely be an LTR deal breaker for me.

[–]EpiphronsRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One of my most recent partners was exactly this - however it was a setup via work through a room-mate and she must have warned the girl prior! I was gobsmacked to be led upstairs after a nice date -> unfortunately didn't work out for other reasons.

I have read many articles where women think having sex on the first date automatically paints her non-worthy as an LTR. Thing is I’ve read comments from women about first dates where they admit there is a desire to engage in at least some sort of sexual activity, but they don’t want to seem “easy,” so they don’t pursue any sex and if they guy does, he gets they whole “Too early.” speech.

Exactly. I feel like this is getting in the way of potentially great relationships purely because they are putting on airs. However this doesn't make the bitter pill easier to swallow. Eugh!

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I mean the hope is that when we meet, those plans become less important than exploring our connection. Not 100% of the time. Only if previously they have prioritised sex on a day one occasion.

I’m not expecting Jenny who goes to church to cancel plans with mum to suck my dick like, but if Becky was giving them out in senior year then drop the bread basket off another day girl, make me feel special.

I know it’s only hurting me but I’m not doing too badly. There’s an excessive amount of women looking for serious daters with 0 baggage. I’m just worried I’ll ignore the one because she wanted to present a facade.

I don’t shame or attack people when holding this position. I’m not a deranged incel, this is just an internal deal breaker I’d love to explain away with logic. Unfortunately I know I’ve met a number of women who wanted to drag me home after a date so it’s not like this doesn’t have precedent. And I’ll happily wait if required. It’s just when you eventually find out you just were not good enough and were made to wait, the emotional attachment just melts away. I’m not interested in being second best or a safe option. Hopefully this makes sense.

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You gave an irrelevant analogy. Drawing parallels between wait times at a business and sexual outcomes in dating didn’t even deserve a breakdown.

I recently was in a drive through and 4 cars went by through the other lane whilst I was waiting for someone to answer my lane.
I got an apology and a comped meal because I’m a regular and I was pissed about it.

Nobody said dating is step by step. I’m just going on a limb and saying if you have a connection with someone and are willing to fuck them on date one, would you suddenly get out the ouija board if you then found someone you liked as much and be like ooh, the ghosts say you have to wait! Makes no sense.

If you had a date that escalated is it not fair to want to be at least as attractive as desirable as them? How can you justify having different outcomes unless the variables are the man.

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Otherwise, what’s the logical explanations for thinking women shouldn’t sleep around?

This is NOT the issue.
I cry foul when women who sleep around come dating then role play as holier than thou. I dislike the idea of my future partner giving better sexual outcomes to randoms, then presenting someone who doesn't give it away for free.
If you are promiscuous then why can't you be promiscuous for me.

I’m not against the people who are honest and say it just makes them insecure, that’s perfectly valid. I might not value insecurity based conclusions like them, but nor can I fault them for being different, and at the very least they’re honest.

I'm hoping someone who doesn't care can explain WHY they don't care. Is it not emasculating? doesn't it make you feel similar to when you were cheated on? I'm of the opinion people that don't care must be more "cuck aligned" or something but I thought it pertinent to throw out as much info in the pursuit of self development.

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People who start doing it faster - can notice a pattern where it attracts certain types that might be less committed whereas they look for commitment - so as intelligent beings we use pattern recognition to change things.

A person can simply change focus. They might’ve enjoyed more casual sex in the past whereas now they look for long term.

A person can have done more sexually "adventurous" things in the past simply because of an abusive partner when they wouldn’t have otherwise. It’s super common for young men to be super pushy and nagging in wanting to try more and more extreme things with their girl.

A person can find that using experience they’ve come to the conclusion more traditional, romantic, standard type of sex is what they enjoy more.

I could go on with a hundred logical, human, normal examples.

Just because a person did something in the past doesn’t mean they owe it to you now. You know what that’s called? Being entitled. Proving my earlier point.

What’s emasculating? I’ve never been cheated on so not sure but definitely wouldn’t think so. I have an extensive past, if my partner does as well, what’s the difference? Matter of fact being with my partner, my mind has payed that question 0% time. My aspiration is to fuck her better than anyone ever could, and that’s it.

I find it more weird that you red pillers, conservatives etc actually spend time fantasizing about other men of your partners past… I never think about other men, especially not in a sexual context, especially especially not in a sexual context with my partner😭 You know what that sounds like to me? insecurity. Proving my other earlier point. What are you even picturing there? How good he was fucking her compared to you? How much bigger his dick must’ve been? How he must’ve had her scream in pleasure so much louder? I don’t wanna be mean to you, but that has simply never been me. I’m 100% confident in the bedroom and in myself.

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You incorrectly assumed some insecurity stance about bigger dicks and picturing sex with other men instead of understanding that speed to sex is indicative of sexual attraction

I’m expected to expend more energy (see dates) for (based on your examples), an older less adventurous woman and just accept it because that means I’m not insecure and I understand they learned from being taken advantage of when younger.

The alternative is I find an empathetic promiscuous woman that is a slut for me, letting me ravage her in ungodly ways early in the relationship or someone who has a negligible sexual history and we wait together in a wholesome way. I’d prefer either of these outcomes to the one proffered. Unfortunately for me the one you described is dime a dozen and what I’m describing either requires drug use or church attendance (sigh).

I don’t feel ENTITLED to their body or sex. I see them as not being suitable for a relationship. There is an important difference - I’m allowed to have boundaries and deal breakers. I’m not entitled to shit.

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high body count men are undesirable

That's supported by studies and is completely intuitive. All else equal, women prefer men with low n count over men with high n count. However, women strongly prefer high-mate-value (i.e., attractive) men with high n count over low-mate-value (i.e., unattractive) men with low n count.

In other words, attractiveness is far more important than n count when it comes to a man's desirability. Among men of the same mate value, women prefer a man with lower n count, which makes total sense. A 10/10 guy who's completely monogamous and has almost no baggage is a unicorn that women dream of. He can have any girl in the world and only wants her. Those guys are extraordinarily rare, but highly desirable.

Likewise, a 1/10 guy with a high n count is extraordinarily rare, unless he frequents prostitutes.

and will not find relationships

It depends on how desirable the guy is. High-mate-value men with high n count are still rated as desirable for LTRs, but not as desirable as high-mate-value men with low n count. On the other hand, low-mate-value men with high n count are rated as the least desirable men for LTRs.

edit - Men basically rate women the same way. Men strongly prefer a high-mate-value woman with high n count over a low-mate-value woman with low n count. N count only matters all else equal. In reality, people like hot people.

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Title	N COUNTS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	6
Comments	375
Date	February 28, 2026 5:01 PM UTC (4 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1rh7rsw/n_counts_weekly_discussion_thread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/n-counts-weekly-discussion-thread.1574445 https://theredarchive.com/post/1574445

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