Lost a High-Value Man

thingswedidaskids · 2023-09-13T06:09:49+00:00

You're spiritually not the same. The moment you said this it was a clue it wasn't going to work long term. I think maybe in the future it's bettwr not to refer to things to a potential partner as "triggers". It can make you come off needy and dramatic. Perhaps say what you value "I really value talking to you consistently because it makes me feel special" for example. Then he's not having to meet an expectation because you're just saying what you like.

Tarot cards might be fun for you but to others it might seem airy fairy. If it's just something you do for fun say that. Don't make it like that is your life and you truly believe it if you don't. If you do truly believe in it, it's better to find someone on the same wavelength.

ETA you say you can't help you have trauma, and I hope I don't sound insensitive, but it's not his fault nor is it his problem to help you through it. A high value man can have his choice of woman and he's going to want someone who can lift him up, not someone he has to mollycoddle.

CountTheBees · 2023-09-13T08:39:13+00:00

I think you two really were incompatible and I think you should be grateful that he was so honest with you on date 5. It could have been due to many things, maybe even some things you don't know about yourself/didn't realise he noticed. We let on a lot more than we mean to. I think putting it all on trauma/tarot cards is oversimplifying it. Just be grateful for his honesty and move on.

Edit: talking about what you "need" from someone after 3/4 dates is a bit unreasonable imo. You're not committed to him so you shouldn't "need" anything.

vintagegirlgame · 2023-09-13T11:52:10+00:00

Too early for trauma talks… that’s not the “goddess of fun and light” energy to be bringing to dates. There’s def a time and place to be vulnerable but that is still different than “trauma” = baggage.

If you are at all spiritual it will be challenging to be with an atheist, and vise versa… it’s such a fundamental foundation of a relationship. I think this is a great opportunity to refine your vision for relationship you want to create! Even if he thinks differently, you want a man who finds your spiritual quirks endearing, not off putting.

Thiccsmartie · 2023-09-13T07:47:13+00:00

In my experience people in circles that have doctorate degrees and are into science will see someone who likes tarot cards/astrology and that kind of stuff as silly and maybe even less educated. That could have been a clue to him that you don’t fit into his social circle/have the same outlook on life.

BudgetInteraction811 · 2023-09-13T14:20:49+00:00

Only a few dates in and you were already telling him your trauma and having talks about consistency in communication? I’m not surprised he didn’t see a future. It should be a breeze in this stage of dating, and tbh you sound like a difficult person.

CranberrySoftServe · 2023-09-13T13:17:36+00:00

I think you might want to reevaluate bringing your trauma up so early. Even if it does colour your interactions with others, that’s your trauma to deal with and address, not theirs.

I would imagine coming to him with that and asking him to change his ways at all, after only a few dates, probably made you seem needy and was likely a big factor in him deciding the relationship wouldn’t work.

I say this as someone with heavy trauma from both childhood and adult experiences. I have made the mistake of thinking others would be willing to hear about it early, even in vague terms, and not have it change the dynamic. Well, I as wrong, and it does change the dynamic. It’s baggage, pure and simple, and some people don’t want to deal with it, nor should they have to.

Wife_and_Mama · 2023-09-13T16:16:51+00:00

Why's he a rare catch? He's educated and has money. That doesn't make him right for you. He did nothing wrong. You did nothing wrong. You both dodged a bullet.

cohost3 · 2023-09-13T12:07:47+00:00

Talking about his flaws (inconsistency), bringing up your trauma and pointing out ways you aren’t compatible is bad form. Especially after only five dates!

Read fascinating womanhood.

sixtysixpixistix · 2023-09-13T17:24:04+00:00

Tarot is bullshit mysticism like astrology. It is a red flag. Every person I've known who thinks it's "just fun" or "a tool for meditation," winds up believing in its power of prognostication even if only "a little bit."

Religion is different. I'm not going to judge the man's beliefs without examining them for myself. Atheism might be fine if it's properly philosophically grounded. It might be pozzed and cringe..

Out of curiosity, what was this man's PhD in?

Heldenhaft · 2023-09-13T11:00:27+00:00

I would honestly never disclose trauma till there was a very strong commitment, after a long time and like maybe after getting to know each other very well in other aspect of your lives first, and I wouldn’t describe it as “ trauma or triggers”, as it’s a heavy word and to men, it just sounds scary and that they’ll pay for the pain, a previous ex has inflicted on you etc

Infact honestly I’d say that I was always treated well, because then the man has to live up to your expectations that you’ve been treated well and can’t fathom any other treatment. If he does something you don’t like, say it once without a lengthy historical explanation Ave that if he continue to do it….take away your presence, take away your attention

Men respond to absence, not words.

The weird thing is I’ve experienced is that if you share your deepest wounds with a man, like youve been cheated on etc they then turn around and think it gives them permission do the same or worse to see how far they can push things or how much you’ll put up this, since you did it for the previous guy

plein_old · 2023-09-13T16:02:13+00:00

Not everyone would feel that a hard-core atheist is "high value" or a "catch". Having similar beliefs and values is VERY important to some people when they are looking for a life-partner.

ClarityByHilarity · 2023-09-13T18:10:51+00:00

Why did you bring up Tarot and trauma by date 5?

Too much too soon, too much disclosure.

Ultimately you both are of different religious views, but I do believe you disclosed too soon. Also most HVM are not going to be into tarot, crystals and other “spiritual” things that are outside of the norm. These are not traditional values and they will take a specific man to embrace. Most guys will write you off as being weird if you mention that…

UberrimaFides · 2023-09-13T14:53:36+00:00

I think you are mistaken that he saw you as a high-value woman. If he did, neither spirituality nor trauma talks would make any difference. He probably has the attention of other women, so it was a question of, "Do I want to spend more time on her?" Since he didn't see your value, the answer was "no".

LightOverWater · 2023-09-13T16:37:19+00:00

I could tell he was turned off by my interest in spirituality (he was an atheist)

This is a very valid reason for incompatibility. Just is. People are strong on their values. But it's not all the same thing. Personally, I think it's fine if people hold different beliefs and that's the end of it. But there's situations where things break down 1) trying to convert someone 2) arguing about it 3) the spiritual/religious thing is a significant aspect of one's life.

I disclosed some trauma and what I needed from him

This is the one statement that stands out in the entire paragraph. You haven't given much info here, which I understand, but I'll just say how I would advise someone else who is dating a person that says this. To the other person I would say 1) Don't date people with a bunch of baggage that put a burden on you 2) you aren't responsible for fixing someone 3) there's no proof that they will get better, so accept the worst today as forever. Lastly, just don't date them- let them work through their issues.

What I've written is a bit generic, of course because the info I have is generic, yet I know that some situations are nuanced.

I know he had some unresolved feelings for an ex

Depends what you mean by feelings but it sounds like he's not emotionally available anyways. You're not losing much.

I think tarot cards are fun

Ohhh... I mean this isn't spiritual, it's hocus pocus. I'm wondering how committed you are to this pseudoscientific realm and how deep the rabbit hole goes? That makes a lot more sense of incompatibility.

Was this just not my person, or should I never mention trauma or tarot again? Lol.

Trauma is yours to deal with. No you should not deceive people about it. It's going to come out in one way or another. One person's trauma is always a thorn in a relationship because SOs are so close.

The tarot thing.... I mean if if that's important to you just find someone who doesn't care. Again, if you're not imposing this on someone else or using it to drive your decisions/future or whatever then most people shouldn't care. Remember, women want a man who is a reliable decision-maker, right? Same is expected for his wife.

Independent-Hall4929 · 2023-09-13T18:50:16+00:00

First of all you sound too intense for such an early stage of the relationship. Bringing up serious discussions like that are a turn off in what should be the honeymoon stage. If you’re not happy with a man’s behaviour, just pull back. It’s the only action they understand.

Secondly, I don’t think you lost too much here. You’re spiritual and he’s opposite. If he was interested in you, similar men with compatible values will be too.

oofieoofty · 2023-09-13T13:54:50+00:00

If he had unresolved feelings for an ex and was inconsistent in his communication, he was never truly interested in you in the first place.

LeicaRedEye · 2023-09-13T16:14:46+00:00

Talking about trauma and tarot is indeed a bit weird, at least for the type of person who isn't a hippie dippey type.

LateralThinker13 · 2023-09-13T18:21:27+00:00

I could tell he was turned off by my interest in spirituality (he was an atheist

First off, he's an idiot. Spirituality and atheism have nothing to do with one another. Atheism is the believe that there is no deity. Spiritualism doesn't require a deity, just a belief in metaphysical things greater than the material/tangible. A person who is a reality-only hardcore atheist is usually a very inflexible, materialistic jerk.

I can't recall a single hardcore atheist in my experience who hasn't been an insufferable, know-it-all arse.

EDIT: upon reflection, I would make atheism a red flag in any dating profile. Agnostics are fine - they don't know what is true, and are open. But an atheist says "there is no God, PERIOD," when you can't prove a negative, and that's the most unscientific position you can hold. It's arrogant in the extreme... and I can't excuse it.

I also value consistency in communication, and his inconsistency made me anxious.

You both lose out here. Anxiety isn't appealing or high value, but neither is inconsistency.

I know he had some unresolved feelings for an ex, but I can’t help but beat myself up over the fact that I “ruined” things with a rare catch.

I wouldn't call him a rare catch. I suspect he's fairly ideologically inflexible, and you're not.

Was this just not my person, or should I never mention trauma or tarot again?

Okay, I can only offer my personal opinion on these two, as it's very subjective to deal with either, so here goes.

On trauma, it's fine to have some. Everybody does. But most men - and the higher value a man is, the more this applies - want you to have your sh1t squared away and not to make it his problem. In other words, a HVM wants your trauma not to become his issue. He wants you to have DEALT with it. And it sounds like you... haven't, if it's still making you anxious. That needs to be fixed.

On tarot... it depends upon how you view it. I like tarot for the mythology, the stories, and for how it can be used as a psychological tool to explore how your mind is working and interpreting things. From a scientific perspective, tarot works like inkblots or any other tool we can project our issues upon. I think a guy like your BF would probably accept tarot within that context.

If you believe in that tarot and horoscopes are legitimate and controlling, however... you're going to have a harder time finding a HVM who will put up with that, let alone share it.

kmht11 · 2023-09-14T02:05:45+00:00

It sounds to me like you are genuinely incompatible and that is ok! Don’t beat yourself up over it but also don’t ask a man for consistency- let it be a red flag and walk away. That’s not something you should have to ask for

bitchyblondie1 · 2023-09-13T15:59:31+00:00

You’re overthinking it. It’s not incompatibility- he was just never that into you if he’s been inconsistent all along. I have plenty of guy friends that would fit your criteria of “high value” who wouldn’t blink twice at taking a girl out on five or six dates, doing all the right things, etc. because he was bored and needed something to occupy his time. It’s quite clear he was never that interested.

Morphiadz · 2023-09-13T19:27:30+00:00

The two main issues I see are not being compatible due to religious views/spiritual views (which is unavoidable, some people naturally will think you're crazy no matter what views, beliefs, or religion you follow, and most who have PHDs or are very studious will probably be judgy) and the other issue is disclosing trauma early on. When I was dating (I'm married now) I would always assume that no one wants to hear problems on the first few dates for example related to trust issues or amount and frequency of messages. I think this is because most people are not connected enough to you yet to feel sorry for you or want to help you or support you with it. It's more like ''uh oh, she's already telling me that she's going to be difficult''.

What I would do in the past was feel out the man for a while first. I took note of how he acted and if it seemed important to communicate with me, share feelings, be more emotional. If so, then it might be okay to open up about an issue you struggle with. I would just be careful because I think for most men, it is too much baggage too soon.

Also, some trauma can't really be worked on and it just takes time and the right person. I used to have difficulty with trusting and opening up to people (I'm very introverted, it's just my nature to be closed off) but my husband really made me feel a lot better about that. It wasn't overnight, it took months for me to realise I could drop those concerns and move on together with him.

MageTattersaile · 2023-09-13T23:43:10+00:00

I just wanted to share my intuition from reading your post. I suggest you give some thought to what you want in a man and reframe your thoughts on what a HVM is.

There's high value in terms of socio-economic level and there's high value in terms of personal qualities. For example, I am a christian. So, the fact that this man is an atheist would make him low value in my eyes regardless of his PhD or money. Obviously, the personal characteristics you look for in a man will be different from mine.

My impression is that you two were personally and ideologically incompatible (spirtual/tarot vs atheist), but you liked the of idea of being with a highly educated man. I'm not saying it's bad to look for an educated partner, just that his degree and job are not the foundations of a happy relationship or marriage. Successesful relationships are built on share values and virtuous personal qualities.

No-Line-996 · 2023-09-14T03:01:58+00:00

he doesn't sound like a catch at all lol. perfect gentlemen doesn't come with inconsistency imo.

leiphepeline · 2023-09-13T08:18:56+00:00

First off, I don't like the terms "high value". The fact that he had a good education and has a good career doesn't show his personality, so maybe you even dodged a bullet of some sort (a lot of guys with good career tend to be egoistic and controlling). And I don't know why are u sad about losing a guy who you didn't even get to know better. And clearly you two are not compatible, so it's good that he saw that and told you the truth.

mistressusa · 2023-09-13T13:50:12+00:00

I think you two really are incompatible. I don't think him being an atheist was necessarily the problem as much as the type of spirituality you are into vs. a standard religion. Atheists are intellectuals, so as such, he would see and respect Judaism/Christianity/Buddhism/etc. as more of a culture rather than a religious belief. But tarot cards, he would see as juvenile and, as someone else pointed out, uneducated, especially if you make it a significant part of your personality and/or take it seriously.

The trauma talk probably came off to him either as "too dramatic/juvenile" if it's something like being cheated on which happens to everyone or "unmanaged mental health problems" if it's something serious like childhood abuse. As many have said, leave the trauma talk till much later. It's totally reasonable to ask for more advance notice in planning and does not require that you to bring up trauma.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2023-09-13T15:40:25+00:00

Uncle Vaz Hardcore Remix

So I get it that some stuff like waiting for a committed relationship before sex is, from the Lady Side of the Gender Gap, reasonable, but here is the package that he saw. Some of these you can't help, some of them are your personal choices, but they make you incompatible with him.

Ok, strap in.

We did not sleep together because I stated I do not like to do that outside of a committed relationship.

"Hey, bro', I'm happy to let you take me on dates, and unload my trauma and weird hobbies and such on you, but no sex, now, and not in the near future, either, until you agree to let me be your 'sole source provider', so I can use it to manipulate you. Also, even then it will be only when I want, and if I don't want it as much as you, tough noogs, you still can't go get it elsewhere. And when you do get it, it's probably not going to be worth the trouble. So, Sisyphus, let's get you started on rolling that boulder up the hill!"

Here's a counterpoint for you. One of my girls came over the other night, and I started feeling her up, because that's what I do, and she joked about it. I fake-apologized and said "I'd feel up your brain up if I could"; she laughed and said, "No, it's ok; my boobs are your boobs."

My. Boobs. Are. Your. Boobs.

This vaulted her into "The Greatest Women Who Have Ever Lived" category. I mean, maybe your LL isn't Physical Touch like hers (and mine) is, but which do do think sounds better to a guy? Hint: It's "Hey, I understand my boobs make you happy. I want you to be happy, so please partake."

Side Note: Guess who gets consistent communication? I bet you can name that tune in one note. I mean sure it might be "Hey, can your come over and bring your boobs with you?" but she does seem happy, so there's that.

I also value consistency in communication, and his inconsistency made me anxious.

"Even though I am doing nothing about the singular need men have in a relationship, I still expect you to coddle me and send 'GM Beautiful!' texts because that's what I need."

Also, the sad fact is, most women dig a certain level of uncertainty. Too much certainty = Boring = No Tingles = "I'm going to cheat on you with some loser bc he gives me the tingles."

I disclosed some trauma

Long Form Translation: "Even though you had nothing to do with my 'trauma', I am still going to expect you to be my therapist and take care of me. I will also hold you personally responsible for what other men did to me."

Short Form Translation: "I am damaged and I WILL be a lot of WORK."

I can’t help that I have trauma.

"Waaah! It's not my fault! I am still going to hold you responsible for what other men did! You are not getting out of that."

I think tarot cards are fun.

"I believe in frivolous BS like horoscopes and tarot cards. I also think some of my friends and I accidentally summoned a demon using a Ouija board at a sleepover when I was 14."

I never expected them to be such a big deal to an atheist.

It was more the 'no sex' and the general fuckedupness. The tarot cards were the cherry on the crap sundae. Also, of my friends of various or no religion, the ones that are the most hardcore orthodox are ...wait for it... atheists. They yap the most, they proselytize the most, etc., and at least the evangelical types think they are trying to help you. They atheists just want you to share in their misery and lack of hope.

Was this just not my person

Pretty much. He did hang in there for 4-5 dates though. So you have to have some pluses in there amidst the trauma and the witchcraft.

should I never mention trauma or tarot again?

Hey! I have an idea! You should process the trauma instead of simply dumping it on each new prospective partner: "Here is my baggage that I never dealt with, but expect you to."

Tarot cards are not something that had any upside to a rational man. The best outcome is that he thinks "Well, this is harmless, and I can put up with it for sex, as long as she doesn't talk about it too much." Also, when a woman talks about this and horoscopes and such, even if she says she doesn't believe in it, we think that she does.

So you need to take inventory about how you are (a) acting and (b) presenting to the world, and make adjustments.

Scabondari · 2023-09-13T22:33:10+00:00

I don't think its smart to divulge trauma to potential partners until you're well into the relationship if at all. Are you in therapy to put it behind you so it needn't be discussed at all?

onogomo · 2023-09-14T05:44:14+00:00

I’ve been through this, tried dating a PhD student. When you find the guy who sees your value and cherishes you he wont make a big deal out of these fundamental things like your spirituality and having trauma.

A man who is valuable is one that is generous to you, who is kind to you. Just because they have all these assets doesn’t mean they’re gonna mean much to you if he’s not willing to devote himself to you. Keep looking sister he’s out there 💕

Edit- Yes I would suggest saving trauma for a couple months into a relationship when you know you can trust him with that information, and tarot cards are for fun 💞

Double-Painter-4559 · 2023-09-14T09:47:25+00:00

I am not a red pill woman so disregard my advice, but personally I would keep the Tarot Card thing to myself for a while. There's nothing wrong with Tarot but there's a stigma attached to people who practice Tarot because to be fair some REALLY get into it deeply and it ends up being all they care about and the foundation of their lives. I had a coworker who lived her daily life by Tarot. She would literally wake up in the morning and the first thing she did was throw the cards and every time a coworker would bring up a real issue at work, she would conclude it was Mars in retrograde therefore she didn't need to solve the issue...

Being into Tarot can signal also that you are reading his future, you pry in his life and can be off-putting to some people. It can be perceived as a sort of manipulation. Also a person who is atheist will believe that all this Tarot thing is nonsense therefore consider you unwise, goolible, insane.

Or... look for people who are alike! I am sure there are plenty of men who like Tarot and horoscopes. Most of the time they're on the weirder side however.

Spiritual-Ad-4382 · 2023-09-14T16:34:39+00:00

Also OP - what is your definition of a high value man? You mentioned about superficial values like education and salaries. At my work I’m surrounded by such seemingly gentle people with great paper qualifications but most of them are assh***s. My definition of a high value man is somewhat different - who is able to listen to, not judge you especially your interests, how you are going through healing process, regardless the stage of the relationship building. To me it sounds like he’s just one of such people I’m surrounded daily. I dated people like him a lot and ended up feeling so low about myself because they never stopped judging and measuring others. Calculative and very rational. These types of people typically almost hate people talking about spirituality/inner self/psychology(unless connected to neuroscience and you can explain in a structured way)

If you are genuinely into spirituality, yet feel like it ruined some relationship that would be materialistically beneficial, you should understand the 2 values are completely different.

ProficientDom · 2023-09-14T20:03:38+00:00

Based on what OP stated about her so called high value target, she doesn’t seem to bring an equivalent “value” to the table. I am surprised it went 5 dates. If the roles were reversed, a typical woman most likely would have cut and run after the first or second date.

Digital-Bionics · 2023-09-15T02:58:36+00:00

The thing is, it's tarot cards today, then it's dodgy massages with new age man buns out of the blue after the guy has made an emotional investment.....seen this so many times.

Simpy-Cuck · 2023-09-13T16:54:23+00:00

If there's no sexual activity - Men loose pretty quick all interest that's left. The Result is being seen here.

AutoModerator · 2023-09-13T05:46:07+00:00

Title: Lost a High-Value Man

Full text: I went on five dates with a man who had a doctorate degree, made six figures, was fun, a perfect gentleman, and said he was taking a potential relationship with me seriously. We did not sleep together because I stated I do not like to do that outside of a committed relationship.

I think I came off as a high-value woman at first, but I could tell he was turned off by my interest in spirituality (he was an atheist). I also value consistency in communication, and his inconsistency made me anxious. We discussed it, and I disclosed some trauma and what I needed from him. He was understanding but would default to being in inconsistent over time, again triggering my anxiety. I tried to open a discussion about incompatibles on date 5, and he immediately said he agreed that we are not compatible and that he doesn’t see a future. I was shocked as he talked me into going out on dates 4 and 5 when I started to get cold feet.

I know he had some unresolved feelings for an ex, but I can’t help but beat myself up over the fact that I “ruined” things with a rare catch. I feel things were ruined over trauma and tarot cards. I can’t help that I have trauma. I have worked on it in therapy, and I think tarot cards are fun. I never expected them to be such a big deal to an atheist. Please talk some sense into me… Was this just not my person, or should I never mention trauma or tarot again? Lol.

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biitchstix · 2023-09-14T03:56:50+00:00

I feel the issue was less about your spiritual disagreements and more about the fact that you essentially traumadumped on a man who was basically a stranger.

flower_power_g1rl · 2023-09-13T08:40:13+00:00

He still has something with his ex. It's better for you to start something with someone who does not

basedtrader_dev · 2023-09-15T21:05:34+00:00

"but I could tell he was turned off by my interest in spirituality"

" I feel things were ruined over trauma and tarot cards"

I seriously hope you are not conflating spirituality with "tarot cards". That's probably by far the biggest issue at hand here, not that you lost a "great guy".

Ok-Promotion-861 · 2023-09-13T08:27:16+00:00

Read your post again. He was inconsistent. Low value man.

ArdentBandicoot · 2023-09-13T14:26:18+00:00

[permanently deleted]

freedlurker · 2023-09-13T21:29:28+00:00

please get therapy.

goldensonly · 2023-09-14T17:07:46+00:00

A man with a PhD looks at tarot cards the same way he views Uno or blackjack....He thinks you have a low IQ and doesn't want his kids to suffer the consequences.

Title	Lost a High-Value Man
Author	ComfortableHeron947
Upvotes	38
Comments	121
Date	September 13, 2023 5:46 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/16heqqj/lost_a_highvalue_man/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/lost-a-high-value-man.1231646 https://theredarchive.com/post/1231646

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