I am a transgendered man, how can I be a part of the men's right movement? Does men rights exclude transrights?

JockeVXO · 2012-05-06T17:56:24+00:00

First off, welcome.

If you support men getting equal rights and equal protection, you are essentially part of the MRM. If you wish, you can try to find organisations or groups in your area that advocate for men's rights and contact them.

Another way is to quite simply read up on the issues, educate yourselves on men's plights and talk about it (not incessantly, of course, but when relevant), open people's eyes up to the discrimination and inequalities men face in society and change minds.

No, we don't exclude transrights. Everyone should have equal rights where that is possible.

MattNextus · 2012-05-06T17:51:21+00:00

I'm in the same situation as you, but I've found that simply talking with my friends about men's rights is something that's easy to do. I have a lot of feminist friends, and we argue sometimes, but we always end up arguing for the same thing, just saying it differently. The reality of men's rights is egalitarianism- equal rights for everyone, with gender not being an issue. Hopefully regardless of gender identification as well, so that transgendered individuals such as us would be included for equal rights.

I'm looking forward to the day where gender doesn't matter, and we don't have to overrepresent our masculinity simply to fit in.

blueyb · 2012-05-06T21:08:16+00:00

There is a fight right now over the LBGT provisions on the VAWA bill. Do you know why LBGT provisions would even be necessary? Because the bill is gender-discriminatory in name and practice to begin with.

When you have a bill that pre-supposes that DV offenders are men and DV victims are women, you run into all kinds of sticky situations. Does a Lesbian aggressor not deserve to be brought to justice? Does a victimized gay man not deserve support services?

It's simple. Take the gender out of the law. All who commit domestic violence deserve punishment, all who suffer from it deserve support services. All children deserve the same chance in public education. All infants deserve to be free from genital mutilation. All people convicted of crimes deserve to have fairness in sentencing. Either everyone of the proper age can be drafted, or no one can.

I've never once, not ever, seen a serious suggestion from the MRM of a law that favors men. Never. All we want is equality, and in that, we would achieve equality in law and practice for everyone, of every gender, orientation, lifestyle, etc.

DelphFox · 2012-05-06T20:11:12+00:00

I don't think we care what gender or sexual orientation you are; nor your political viewpoints or your favorite color. All are equal here that support the cause. And you're even welcome here if you don't, as long as you're not a troll or a total dick about it. (No pun intended)

TheSacredParsnip · 2012-05-06T17:48:13+00:00

I'm not sure how you can further relate it to being a transguy but I think most of us would welcome our trans brothers. Your situation and outlook would be fascinating to hear about, considering the fact that you've seen society from both sides.

darkescaflowne · 2012-05-06T18:58:51+00:00

No I think you are probably in the best position to tak about the differences in treatment you received when you were viewed as a girl to now were you are viewed as a man. People like you can provide important insight to how society may be hurting men. So please come in and make yourself comfortable.

VoodooIdol · 2012-05-06T18:53:32+00:00

Identify as a man? As far as I'm concerned you're a man. Welcome to Men's Rights!

How you relate to it is entirely up to you, in all honesty. We would certainly love to have your input, as others have noted, as you have a unique view from both sides of the fence, as it were.

There was a book that MR turned me on to a while back that you may find interesting and possibly helpful/insightful: Self Made Man I thought it was pretty awesome, personally.

tjiggs · 2012-05-06T20:00:24+00:00

the consensus is that MR is here for gender equality, not female advantage. due to society/information, the focus is on mens rights because of how trampled and socially acceptable it is to do so its allbout equality, for everyone. not men being stuck as the working provider who is always evil/at fault, or women being dainty creatures who need to be protected, but all human, all together, all equal

ps: i am an androgynous male, i completly get the looks for when my more feminine moments show. you are human like the rest of us, as stated, this is how you relate, this is how you fit in. how can you help? get informed. spread information. dont make the cause look bad. enlighten people, dont attack them. civil inteligent discussion. there are activist groups if you prefer to work that way

Grapeban · 2012-05-06T18:30:40+00:00

Since the men's rights movement is very focused on the idea of societal expectations and stereotypes, I would say that transpeople would provide a very useful and informative take on that. Since we transpeople generally experience a life on both sides of the gender divide, we can compare and contrast experiences.

2012-05-06T19:39:06+00:00

Mens rights isnt exclusivly a cisgender mens group or even exclusively a mens group. There are plently of female MRAs along with male MRAs along with gay MRAs.

Enjoy your stay

Jo3M3tal · 2012-05-06T18:52:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

a_weed_wizard · 2012-05-06T19:08:43+00:00

what you are describing has nothing to do with your not having been born a man. a lot of people seem to think that being a woman is something that is innate but that being a "man" is something you have to qualify for, with whatever ridiculous (usually self-serving interests) they put forth as conditions

pcarvious · 2012-05-06T20:20:46+00:00

Have you seen the plight of men in society and want to do something about it? Welcome to the MRM. The MRM isn't gender or sex exclusive. It does tend to piss in the face of feminist theory because we think the theory is junk science. We also tend to be outspoken about what is done rather than what people say they'll do. We do not intentionally exclude anyone. This is not a safe space. It's a place to discuss what's happening in society in and how it relates to men and mobilize if possible. If you want to take part feel free.

Shattershift · 2012-05-06T20:45:38+00:00

Transgendered men have an added benefit in that they've often experienced the differences. I'm reminded of past input from a transgendered men telling how the hormone treatment really intensified his libido. These sort of experiences are great for building understanding along the sex divide.

i_poop_splinters · 2012-05-06T21:20:53+00:00

You don't have to be anything other than someone that shares a view for true equality. I don't have to be black to support the black rights movement and them having rights. I don't have to be gay to support what they're doing. It's a consensus among people saying "this isn't right and we're going to stand up together and be a voice against it"

2012-05-06T21:26:15+00:00

It is an Egalitarian subreddit.

skobombers · 2012-05-06T20:33:24+00:00

Why wouldn't we recognize you? You have the qualifications:
A. Is a human.
B. Supports the cause
C. Is a Humanoid organism, preferably of Human nature

MRMRising · 2012-05-06T17:48:15+00:00

The MRM welcomes trans men just as much as we welcome woman, it's Feminists who some of us have a problem with. Especially Feminists who say one thing and do something different.

vegibowl · 2012-05-06T21:52:25+00:00

Welcome! Please, please join us at /r/LadyMRAs as well. We welcome all genders and I've been very interested in hearing the POV of some trans individuals.

blueskin · 2012-05-06T21:55:58+00:00

MenRights = equal rights for everyone. Including any member of the LGBT community.
It's about not having a double standard for women. No special treatment based on gender. True equality.

2012-05-06T19:04:03+00:00

Why would it be any different, this is about leveling the playing field. You're not picking sides.

Embogenous · 2012-05-06T20:38:39+00:00

Some aspects of being a cis man will not affect you (e.g. the education you had as a child, assuming you didn't transition early, infant circumcision), but most will (because they're rooted in the way others perceive and treat you). Some issues for cis men will affect you to a greater degree (e.g. suicide risk).

Since you have experienced the treatment that women do, your voice on men's issues is very strong. You are likely to have a better understanding of the difference in the way men and women are treated than the average cis guy (not definitely as you may be affected by bias, but very likely to). So hell yes, you're not only a man, you're a man with more knowledge than the average man, welcome to the community.

Besides, the MRM accepts anybody who wants to participate (typhonblue and girlwriteswhat are good examples of prominent female MRAs).

The MRM doesn't overlap with trans rights (i.e. it doesn't fight for them) but does support them.

Tralan · 2012-05-06T21:15:48+00:00

At it's core, MRA is about Civil liberties, and I'd hope that we all stood for equal Civil Liberties for every person. Right now, I am focusing on Men's Rights because that is the issue, but I also am an advocate for homosexual rights (both male and female), and any other rights that are being stepped on. I am also american, but I support Civil Liberties across the globe (and universe, in case there are oppressive societies on other worlds). Hell, I'm even an advocate for women's rights when blatant sexism does oppress them (it happens still).

ignatiusloyola · 2012-05-06T23:04:05+00:00

There are many different rights movements, from women's rights, to LGBT rights, to men's rights. At r/MensRights, we tend to focus on the "men" aspect of it, which definitely does overlap with LGBT rights. We certainly don't want people to lose rights, neither women nor people who identify as LGBT. Essentially, you will likely find the most passion in fighting for rights that overlap with the other aspects of your life.

When it comes to the difficulties you may encounter with being accepted for your transgendered status, there are many LGBT groups out there that are more prepared and capable of supporting you, and that you might find more helpful/knowledgeable. But if you find discrimination with regards to your male qualities, then you may find more in common with the Men's Rights groups. Societies social enforcement of masculine traits is a common topic here.

But it is definitely a challenging topic. What exactly is a right? Does giving a right to one person/group infringe on another person's rights? If so, should that really be considered a right in the first place?

You will find that r/MensRights is a very open place, where people can discuss points of view without adhering to modern political correctness. We encourage open debate, and typically the mods will only get involved in extreme cases. I hope you can find a niche here, and find some peace in the realization that other people share similar view to you.

Welcome and enjoy!

wavegeek · 2012-05-07T00:06:25+00:00

Welcome! As others have said.

I would be very interested to hear your experiences. Maybe you could do an IAmA. I'm sure others would also. You are in a unique position to do this.

Especially the issue of "male" privilege". According to Wikipedia's feminist hordes, there is not such thing as female privilege. What is your view?

DavidByron · 2012-05-07T03:04:44+00:00

A question, if I may. I assume that you spent some time of your life presenting to society as a female and now present as a male. My question is this: Have you noticed a difference in the way you are treated by either women or men? Society in general?

2012-05-07T04:41:37+00:00

Any movement that fights for equal rights cannot exclude someone from their cause. Gay people don't mind straight people fighting for gay rights, men's rights activists don't mind women fighting for men's rights, and etcetera. No-one is going to destroy you for supporting men's rights when (I'm not sure whether to count you as male because you identify as such.) you aren't male.

rightsbot · 2012-05-06T17:22:18+00:00

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Demonspawn · 2012-05-06T20:23:01+00:00

Does men rights exclude transrights?

Men's rights is transrights agnostic. We (as a movement) are not for or against your rights as a transsexual. The reason for this is to remain focused on our core mission, which is the rights of men.

If you have issues which affect you because you are a man, we support you if you a straight, gay, bi, trans, or even furry.

werko · 2012-05-06T22:18:45+00:00

There are no gender requirements to either group. I personally consider myself supporter of both men and women's right since ultimately what I desire is for all humans to be equal regardless of gender, race or age.

2012-05-07T02:17:55+00:00

Cool with me. I am embarassingly ignorant of the proper terminologies and situations of trans-sexuals, but I'm learning. You will probably find MR to be one of the most egalitarian groups around. We are against an ideology, not a person, gender, or preference. We want to have acess to our own children and be treated equally under the law. You are more likely to be trolled here by feminists and SRS types than any MRAs. Welcome aboard if you like.

ExpendableOne · 2012-05-07T04:10:11+00:00

The men's rights movement cannot "exclude" anyone, that's not how it works. The idea of being an activist for the rights of men is not something that anyone can claim a monopoly on. Even if every single person in this subreddit explicitly opposed trans-theory, that would still not stop you from being a man's rights activist. No one can stop you from caring about the well-being of men or from having an interest in gender equality. There are countless individuals who are members of this subreddit and this movement, each with their own view points, experiences and opinions. A common interest/cause is really all there is to it. If you are affected by social prejudice or misandry as a result of being seen or treated as a man, that is part of what the men's rights movement struggles against(and you are most certainly free to acknowledged that or speak up about it like anyone else).

Rae_the_Wrackspurt · 2012-05-07T21:41:33+00:00

You are a man, without question. As a result, you are by all means entitled to the same rights.

servohahn · 2012-05-07T00:00:59+00:00

I'm a general rights activist. Men's rights, women's rights, lgbt rights, minority rights, whomever's rights, etc. Rights are important to protect, as much for your own group as for groups that you aren't specifically a member of. It would severely impact the credibility of any rights movement if the movement excluded others who wanted to contribute.

In every group there are a few dualistic thinkers who assume that, as a member of a pro-rights organization, they are automatically at war with all members of the outgroup (eg, men's rights activists who have a general disdain towards women, minority rights activists who have a general disdain towards white people, women's rights activists who have general disdain towards men, etc.). That sort of attitude is not only oxymoronic but regular moronic too.

tl;dr Anyone is welcome to be a part of any legitimate pro-rights group. We're happy to have you.

mikesteane · 2012-05-07T01:31:58+00:00

Of course you can be part of the MRM. The only requirement is that you care about human rights.

drinkthebleach · 2012-05-07T04:23:57+00:00

If someone was a man, or is going to be a man, or identifies as a man, or used to, would they not have to deal with the same shit that we do? We welcome trans people here and have a good deal of trans men and women among us.

2012-05-07T14:07:31+00:00

It better not exclude trans male rights! All males should be covered. In fact, you'll likely find that many male rights activists are egalitarian, and care about trans womens rights as well, and of course cis womens rights.

DavidByron · 2012-05-07T18:17:32+00:00

How come I see stuff by/for transmen about five to ten times less than by/for transwomen? Are there just far fewer transmen for some reason, do you know? Such a rarely expressed possible set of view points would be very interesting. I hope you'd be up for talking about your views as a transman -- sorry if that's seen as pigeon holing you.

2012-05-07T20:07:58+00:00

Well, just fight for what you can see as equality, but firstly, I'm pretty sure you have much more immediate rights you should be fighting for as a transperson.

It's wonderful that you want to seek equal rights for men, and wish to be part of it in interest for your own rights. But I'm certain there's things that will affect you more immediately than things that affect both you and me, speaking as a fellow with a Y chromosome.

As for men's rights excluding transrights... those are different issues entirely. Something that affects transmen will not necessarily be the same thing that affects other men. For instance, I really don't need to worry about people thinking I'm not womanly enough, and discriminating against me because of it.

w333dlady · 2012-05-29T08:18:00+00:00

I'm transgender/gender queer also. The MRM is basically a decentralized grassroots movement so there is no concrete philosophy. This is in contrast with the feminist movement which is centralized through academia and a handful of prominent feminist speakers, writers and organizations which are very very well funded and with a very wide-spread dissemination of conforming information by comparison. "Men's rights" does not really exclude anything as a whole, but certainly it might, in it's particular subsets.

It's still a fact that within the MRM there are a few small stars and their satellites scattered about, and these individuals may or may not be accepting of transgender people.

Recently some of the more well known speakers on youtube have noticed a great divide in the MRM between "TMRA's" Traditionalist Men's Rights Activists and "MGTOW", Men going their own way.

I tend to side more with MGTOW because traditionalists are just nostalgic idealists. Which is obviously incompatible with the existence of transgender people.

But I do think being transgender is compatible with the philosophy of lower case libertarianism, which is closely aligned with MGTOW.

I'm not sure if you are a MTF or a FTM, if the former that's a little interesting, but if the latter that's really fucking interesting, and I'm assuming you are because you call yourself a "trans guy", and if you are, you're the only FTM I've ever seen in support of men's rights.

But to answer your question, men's rights does not exclude trans rights in any rational sense. Traditionalism, a specific type of men's rights activism often does.

I think lgbt-mra's need a voice, it's unfortunate so few prominent mra's are willing to support such an idea. but if you consider yourself an mra, you are an mra and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. these current "stars" of the mrm don't own the whole movement, they are just good speakers who rose to the top. there are A LOT of views floating around out there.

Honztastic · 2012-05-06T21:30:40+00:00

Nope. Come on in.

Just don't be like the periodic troll accounts, and think that your rights can supersede and deprive your partners of truth.

Just because he might not be able to tell you were once a man, doesn't mean you get to not tell him. Whatever the female-to-male equivalent also applies.

But I hope this subreddit helps you out with any problems.

2012-05-07T02:03:57+00:00

Absolutely. I'm a trans woman, and I've had fewer people here (like two, both trolls downvoted heavily) complain about me being trans than people on the trans boards complaining about me being MRA. By far.

A guy in my life (trans as well) has that same issue. If he doesn't go hyper-masculine and communicate with a combination of grunts and glares, he gets misgendered. That comes from "expected" male behavior, so it's sexism. Much like women not being "dainty" has been an issue with sexism against women.

2012-05-07T18:15:23+00:00

Mensrights is extremely hostile to transgender issues. Only a couple of days ago there was unchallenged outrage against the word 'cis', with wide agreement that it's an insult and that 'normal' people shouldn't be labelled.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/st4x5/will_you_guys_and_gals_explain_this_new_cis_trend/

Dranosh · 2012-05-07T18:38:54+00:00

Maybe it's justme but being transgendered is sort of a joke in my opinio, here me out.

What i take of it is someone that sees themselves as the opposite sex, but those things they like that are seen as "male gendered or female gendered" are basically society's stereotyping. It's like trying to break down social views of a certain sex, but at the same time wanting to be seen as the opposite "gender".

I just don't see how "acting masculine" when those masculine acts are social constructs of what it means to be male, i would assume that would mean working on cars, burping and whatnot, hell i read babysitter club and liked watching degrassi when i was a kid, so what if i like candles and flowers, that doesn't make me any more feminine than lifting weights and talking football makes a male masculine.

Please tell me someone understood this? Lol

abdomino · 2012-05-07T07:34:20+00:00

Fuck it, you're in. Welcome.

nicklestutor · 2012-05-07T14:21:45+00:00

I'm very much an advocate of MGTOW. Men Going Their Own Way.

What this means is you find your own path in life, and you refuse society dictate to you what your way is.

Self-determination.

PissedOffNinjaBum · 2012-05-07T16:58:07+00:00

From reading these comments, I am getting an egalitarian vibe here. If we want equal rights, how are we different from egalitarians? I mean, do we focus more on men's plights while still being fair to both genders? That is what my guess is.

LBSimons · 2012-10-01T06:56:30+00:00

Yes, you can be part of the MRM. No, it does not exclude transrights. The MRM in reality is simply the application of critical thinking to feminist foibles. For example. a feminist has no rebuttal to an MRA; so she starts implying he's insecure in his masculinity, he's 'a little light in the loafers', he's a 'girly man', etc. All the while she forgets that gay males, effeminate or not, are traditionally allies of feminism, and she inadvertently reveals a stereotypic bias against them. She treats them as if they are "useful idiots."

Voila - faux pas!

MRA's want to preserve the right to be presumed innocent ... with the burden of proof beyond doubt placed on the accuser. Feminists such as Jessika Valenti and Aman-duh Marcotte want to take these rights away, at least in cases where females accuse males of rape or domestic violence.

2012-10-13T21:00:53+00:00

We support any with, has had, wants to have, or identifying to have a penis

napocapo69 · 2012-10-16T07:36:23+00:00

Men's right movement is not a men movement, not a heterosexual men movement, it is not a category movement. It is a "movement" of folks (as some feminist like call this individuals, to belittle them) that is against misandry culture and discrimination against men. And it is also against gender based culture. Therefore it is fundamentally anti feminist, as a consequence.

ghebert001 · 2012-05-07T00:14:30+00:00

I think transrights and men's rights aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but they both focus on different issues. Men who were born male and identify as male most likely won't face the issues transgendered men will. I think transgendered men can add a lot to our movement having lived as both female and male, that certainly gives one a different perspective than the rest of us.

I would say fight for transgendered rights and men's rights together while realizing they affect different groups of people. I don't know if that answers your question or not...we don't exclude transrights just like we don't exclude women's rights.

An_Emo_Dinosaur · 2012-05-07T00:57:10+00:00

Yes.

2012-10-31T18:09:50+00:00

My man, lady, alien. Men's right is the right place for you if you believe in human rights. The hole point of this is pointing to valued equality thru our difference.

T-rex_with_a_gun · 2012-05-07T01:38:48+00:00

im sorry i dont understand what you are...are you a woman with a penis? i.e if i saw you down the road, i'd think you are a woman...or are you a man that has feminine qualities and identifies as a woman? (very lost)

either way, welcome.

dakru · 2012-05-06T21:44:01+00:00

/r/mensrights is for equal rights for men and only men. I recommend subscribing to /r/feminism as well as /r/feminisms to get another perspective and more "both sides" view.

/r/feminism is more of women's rights than actual feminism (which is supposed to be for equal rights for all) and in both subreddits (here and feminism) there are a lot of grown-up people crying and acting like little children as well as some good and interesting chatter.

Best choise would be /r/Egalitarianism but that is very dormant, as is /r/masculinism.

Remember to take the reading in small doses so the loud idiots don't make you cynical and you have patience to read the intelligent few =)

2012-05-06T23:30:55+00:00

How about you not worry about "being part" of something? How about you just go do your thing and be part of society.

Title	I am a transgendered man, how can I be a part of the men's right movement? Does men rights exclude transrights?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	173
Comments	154
Date	May 6, 2012 5:20 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/t9vq9/i_am_a_transgendered_man_how_can_i_be_a_part_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-am-a-transgendered-man-how-can-i-be-a-part-of.1022397 https://theredarchive.com/post/1022397

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