People need to learn to give only what they're willing to give without receiving anything in return.

NockerJoe · 2021-12-25T01:33:45+00:00

Yeah but the problem is the world that makes is kinda miserable because most people don't give much for free with no strings attached. Maybe some change to a homeless person but not anything more substantial.

Nobody is outlining an ironclad contract for a relationship. SOMEONE has to make a move and take a risk 99 times out of a hundred. All you really get is nobody making any moves because those kind of assurances don't actually exist in the real world.

Alfaq_duckhead · 2021-12-25T04:38:30+00:00

Whether its life or Chess, someone has to make the first move / take the risk.

If both parties wait for each other to tale the plunge, relationships will lose steam and end up in stalemate

throwaway042994 · 2021-12-25T01:40:11+00:00

Yes, but when put it into practice just a heads up it will lead to people accusing you of selfishness.

TopGun1617554 · 2021-12-25T01:14:19+00:00

This is sound of advice for life in general.

oldcamembert · 2021-12-25T09:17:18+00:00

Hmm, I usually do the completely opposite - as they say, do good and throw it into the sea. Not necessarily only in the romantic context, with other relationships and friendships too, first effort is above the usual "token" step.

Yes, sure - 99% will go unappreciated, but that 1% that will respond is pure gold.

manfrom-nantucket · 2021-12-25T02:35:47+00:00

I follow this as a general rule. I don't ever pay for a woman or buy her drinks. That usually weeds out the uninteresting and self proclaimed strong women from the bunch. What you are left with is generally women who are not in this weird mindset that they are somehow better than everyone else and that those interested need to pay for their time and attention.

ToughAnswers · 2021-12-25T02:42:02+00:00

This is good advice only if everyone on earth is completely truthful. but too often I’m under the impression they are commiting, because they lied. Just like a woman might make it seem like she wants to have sex so you pay.

I’d say more often then not intentions are muddled so it’s hard to really follow this rule

The real solution is to learn to be a better judge of character, something I need to work on

sisyphuslasvegas · 2021-12-25T08:38:46+00:00

I do not pay for anything with the opposite sex until after we've had intimacy...and I could certainly understand if a woman wanted me to commit before intimacy...we would just be incompatible but living our own free lives. Nobody is wrong in this situation.

SyllabubQuiet2482 · 2021-12-26T15:07:54+00:00

Or just don’t give anything. People think not giving anything is being rude. It’s incorrect. You don’t have to give anything but be polite. Listens to what he says but don’t say much. Be on time. Don’t react emotionally and don’t show negative emotions. Things like this. I don’t sleep with a guy that can’t provide for me and pays everything. And some people assume I’ll end up single and miserable. Most people end up miserable and single are people who are below or bottom in looks hierarchy.

I

BMTEJ · 2021-12-25T01:03:51+00:00

This is in response to that women don't owe men sex post isn't it?

sisyphuslasvegas · 2021-12-25T08:36:18+00:00

Man..this is like the best advice ever given by anyone in world history. I agree 100%.

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MrZubar · 2021-12-25T01:11:55+00:00

Do you think a PUA owes any woman with whom he tricks and manipulates into sleeping with him anything? Things like truth and respect for example.

bananadude19 · 2021-12-25T03:57:03+00:00

Expectations are the root of heartache.

SwimmingCarpenter21 · 2021-12-25T05:41:59+00:00

Agreed.

nothatyoucare · 2021-12-25T05:54:30+00:00

What is reciprocity Alex?

In social psychology, reciprocity is a social norm of responding to a positive action with another positive action, rewarding kind actions. As a social construct, reciprocity means that in response to friendly actions, people are frequently much nicer and much more cooperative than predicted by the self-interest model; conversely, in response to hostile actions they are frequently much more nasty and even brutal.

Or if you want to get started reading some of the academic literature on this:

Abstract

Reciprocity is one of the defining features of social exchange and social life, yet exchange theorists have tended to take it for granted. Drawing on work from a decade-long theoretical research program, I argue that reciprocity is structured and variable across different forms of exchange, that these variations in the structure of reciprocity have profound effects on the emergence of integrative bonds of trust and solidarity, and that these effects are explained and mediated by a set of risk- and conflict-based processes. I discuss the consequences of this work for organizational theories of embeddedness and the production of social capital through network ties. Finally, I ask how the structure of networks and the structure of reciprocity are related to one another, and explore possible implications of the structure of reciprocity for exchange theorists’ assumptions about actor motivations.

Start looking into how this stuff works y'all.

Zerofication · 2021-12-25T13:10:31+00:00

Giving without taking comes naturally to men and not women. You have to brainwash a woman since childhood with religious dogma's for her to be able to give a man without expecting something in return.

pubgmisc · 2021-12-25T18:58:54+00:00

Don't expect a traditional partner without being traditional yourself etc.

REEE_XD · 2021-12-25T21:04:44+00:00

Yeah I can only give so much and that usually comes in the form of intellectual discussion. I hate having my time and money wasted so much to the point where I'm hurting feelings and I'm using things told to me in confidence to break you down if you waste my time, money, or energy.

captainquestionasker · 2021-12-25T02:55:43+00:00

Simple. For women.

For guys, unless you’re in the top 10% for looks/money/status, your strategy just leads to dry dick syndrome. The game is really trying to figure out what they need from you before they’ll give you what you want before you give them anything. This is difficult as women often lie.

If you’re comfortable giving out free meals, but a free meal is just something to which she feels entitled, why waste one on her? She’s an entitled C U Next Tuesday.

Personally, I’m not paying top dollar for a beater that’s been through a demolition derby.

Specialist-Action-33 · 2021-12-25T04:56:15+00:00

Based!

calfshrug · 2021-12-25T00:51:29+00:00

It’s a good point - morally responsible, mature, and actionable, but unfortunately it flies into the face of modern social justice narratives, which conveniently neglect the issues of CIS straight (often white) undersexed males, creating a double standard

GhostTheEternal · 2021-12-25T02:02:02+00:00

If you will feel cheated by a girl who doesn't sleep with you after you pay for something, don't pay for anything until you've slept with her

I disagree. I give people I like the benefit of the doubt and don't mind being the first person to help them with something or pay for something or whatever.

Sometimes I feel cheated when someone doesn't reciprocate, but who cares? They're just feelings. Sometimes we're going to feel bad things in life, that shouldn't stop us from doing things that are overall good for us. When I let my guard down and do something nice for someone they often think I'm a good guy and it upgrades our relationship and makes them want to return the favour.

If it turns out that I end up feeling cheated, oh well, it's worth it for the successes.

That said, I don't pay for dinners on first dates because I don't want to mislead anyone that I'm going to fulfil the provider role. I give with the expectation of reciprocation, I'm not willing to be taken advantage of.

ddouchecanoe · 2021-12-25T04:06:43+00:00

This is *RP in a nutshell

HOLYREGIME · 2021-12-25T04:13:31+00:00

This is AFBB mentality. Men and women (mostly women) are going to give without receiving to only those who they deem worthy. Those who are worth the risk. This advice will be applied to everyone else.

If you don’t go out on a limb for her then you will be passed over.

heyitsjeape · 2021-12-25T05:01:48+00:00

The expression, “live and learn,” seem applicable here. I think living and learning involves understanding - as we get older - that most things in life just aren’t going to work out the way we hope they will. Most of the time we will be disappointed with how things work out but it’s not necessarily anybody’s fault so there is no reason for resentment or animosity.

SmokeFrosting · 2021-12-25T08:22:59+00:00

really great viewpoint if i was 15 and taking my first philosophy course. In the real world though, people aren't going to be happy with you acknowledge the social exchange and would probably instantly shutdown the interaction.

On top of that, as someone else has said, no one is going to be 100% truthful about their intentions.

On top of THAT, it doesn't work for every example, even one of the two you mentioned. You cannot 100% commit to someone until you die, otherwise you will always have the option to leave them.

On top of that, the exchange is not the same for everyone. Just because you don't want to have sex until I commit to you, doesn't mean having sex is worth committing to you for me.

Pola_Lita · 2021-12-25T10:17:53+00:00

People need to learn to give only what they're willing to give without receiving anything in return.

Yep. The only thing I would add is learning to accept this in other people too. Stop trying to convince women OR men that they need to come away with X,Y and Z or they've somehow been cheated.

NotGoingoutofMW · 2021-12-25T10:31:52+00:00

Men do this every date, every new conversation with a girl and every approach times the women till he got a relationship. Maybe the first few ones are enjoyable till it becames a chore.

But even with that in mind i went to over 100 dates where i put in 10 times more effort than my datepartner because i refused to let my jadiness affect my actions.

Gigamon2014 · 2021-12-25T12:05:54+00:00

I don't get the "never buy things for a woman" trope. I honestly can't say it's done me any favours when I didn't do it. I genuinely feel its something that's a gesture to show you're capable of doing it, anyone doing it (or not doing it) under the expectation that they're going to get something back is likely someone who doesn't have many attractive qualities in the first place.

no_spoon · 2021-12-25T14:22:57+00:00

> don't pay for anything until you've slept with her

impossible isn't simple

MarBitt · 2021-12-25T15:22:47+00:00

Basically yes, path of unselfish action is the best.

On the other hand, even if I'm just giving money to a beggar, I'm expecting a thank you rather than a spit in my face. And if ten beggars spat in my face after I gave them money, I would probably stop giving it.

So I obviously have some expectations and their fulfillment affects me. I recognize that one should do things because one wants to, regardless of the reaction of others. But we live in the real world and society, we are influenced by the reactions of the environment.

In addition, the solution you propose is: not to take risks. But if no one takes the risk, no one will get anything. Relationships are always based on the trust that mutual expectations will be met even if they cannot be enforced and a willingness to take risks.

ToughAnswers · 2021-12-25T15:50:01+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Willow-girl · 2021-12-25T11:55:26+00:00

So, let the other person set the tone for all interactions with you? Put them in control of the situation?

If you are a passive person by nature this might work for you, I guess.

Title	People need to learn to give only what they're willing to give without receiving anything in return.
Author	ToughAnswers
Upvotes	175
Comments	118
Date	December 25, 2021 12:41 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/rnyqjk/people_need_to_learn_to_give_only_what_theyre/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/people-need-to-learn-to-give-only-what-theyre.1090765 https://theredarchive.com/post/1090765

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