To the scared, angry women who lurk here, can I just gently but firmly remind you that male empowerment does not mean female disenfranchisement ? It’s not a zero-sum game. We can both succeed.

barnagotte · 2022-02-11T14:16:55+00:00

I'm an angry woman. Angry at how men are treated.

masterdarthrevan · 2022-02-11T14:32:34+00:00

I am tired of the demonization of masculinity, and how boys' needs are not met in the education system. I believe that support needs to be given to both genders BY both genders. Your partner especially depends on your support. You can't have a good relationship where one person thinks or acts llike they better than their SO or treats them like garbage because of what gender they are.

RandomHuman2354 · 2022-02-11T15:45:24+00:00

[permanently deleted]

power_forward87 · 2022-02-11T16:55:32+00:00

FDS post about to go up: “LV Scrote claims men have been treated like garbage”

Regular-Analyst5618 · 2022-02-11T20:42:06+00:00

I’m an angry woman… about my male loved ones being harassed for having a penis.

Dynged · 2022-02-11T14:56:14+00:00

I'm all for female empowerment, as long as that empowerment isn't derived from holding males back, which is the way it is right now unfortunately.

makosh22 · 2022-02-11T15:19:32+00:00

IMO, empowered women solve their issues themselves, the take equal part in everything and share responsibility with their partners.

But what i (woman) see: when used term "empowerment" they just want to be "strong and powerful" meaning "take no prisoners". Like "I said - you do! Don't dare to contradict me!"

These are different meanings.

Proof? There are a lot of "Men should do!" posts but every time i asked what are hers obligations i was strongly oppose "How dare you, woman, ask about such things! I don't owe anything to anybody!". It's not win-win situation.

Moist-Ad-4288 · 2022-02-11T18:39:39+00:00

I’m a woman, but I think it’s crucial for men to have a chance to speak on their experiences with women and misandry because before discovering the men’s rights movement, I had no idea men faced so many real and societal problems (thanks to feminism).

WeEatBabies · 2022-02-11T15:44:05+00:00

They're afraid that we are gonna get their Duluth model replaced with a gender neutral approach to domestic violence, therefore they won't be able to get us evicted at the point of a finger and pay more child support.

They're afraid that we are gonna make parental fraud, the only type of fraud that's not a crime, a crime.

They're afraid that we are going to get affirmative actions, nay, simply equal application review process, to get into university.

They are afraid we are gonna a gender neutral child surrender law and they won't be able to get child support.

They are afraid that we will change the laws to make it possible for a woman to rape a man.

Potato-with-guns · 2022-02-11T19:07:46+00:00

Which is the reason the MRA movement is the opposite of feminism, not because we want men to be better, but because we truly support equality

denvercaniac · 2022-02-11T13:52:05+00:00

I can't support "checking out" enough. They've made it more than clear that most of us aren't good enough for them so sit back and watch it all burn.

RookeyReviews · 2022-02-11T15:13:57+00:00

"How feminism was supposed to be"

solar-garlic1776 · 2022-02-11T17:00:42+00:00

Not talking down. It's easy for them to come here and agree with us and men/boys are treated. Great we appreciate that. But what are they actually doing? Talking to other women/their daughters/warning their sons? If not than it's just useless lip service.

ManofWordsMany · 2022-02-11T20:29:17+00:00

I want us all to be united and stop dividing based on race/ethnicity, gender/sex, and class/wealth.

However I also am keenly aware that a lot of politicians and even lawyers would be out of jobs if we managed to do this permanently.

Brady_Bear · 2022-02-12T06:09:18+00:00

That 2X thread is fucking awful. The post is about expressing equality then 99% of the comments go on to demonize men.

What a joke.

RandomHuman2354 · 2022-02-11T16:58:28+00:00

Yeah, it's pretty common for feminists to get mad when you win arguement. They aren't open minded to opinions different than theirs.

In my most recent post you can see how I was trying to have a peaceful arguement with feminists and got downvoted to hell. (And also got kicked out later.

AbysmalDescent · 2022-02-11T16:45:32+00:00

It never stops to amaze me how much these people lie to themselves, or just revel in their own ignorance, on a daily basis. Men have never been afraid of women in power, simply because they are women. They might fear or object to how that power can and often is abused. They might fear or object to power simply being given freely to women, simply because they are women or to "balance out" some kind of twisted and misinformed perversion of history. They might fear or object to the harmful lies that many women/feminists tell themselves, and the world, to validate their own vanity, greed, hedonism, prejudices and personal entitlements towards men. They might fear or object to the many inequalities being ignored, encouraged or championed, in the name of feminism. None of this has anything to do with being afraid of women because they are women, and yet that is the fallacy that these women perpetually continue to tell themselves.

red_philosopher · 2022-02-11T19:00:16+00:00

Funny. One of the nicest 2X posts I've ever read.

I doubt very much that men of the last two generations are afraid female empowerment.

Hahahaha this is funny. Nothing wrong with "female empowerment," bit at all. The issue is it's "female empowerment" at the expense of men and boys. And these men are rightfully concerned. Men lag behind women in nearly every single wellness measure that there is. From healthcare, to education, to support services, you name it. The extreme gynocentric focus on "female empowerment" by necessity leaves less time and less money to support men- ironically, if more men were helped more women's issues would be remedied.

What men fear is their equal rights being taken away in courts

This has already happened, and has happened for over 200 years. Men have always been arrested and incarcerated more frequently, and experience 60% longer prison sentences than women do for similar crimes. Men do not receive "equal protection" under the law to this day.

education

This has already happened. Men and women are "guaranteed equal access" to education, but there are innumerable resources for women and girls, and it's been shown that boys are adversely discriminated against in primary education. A direct violation of their rights. Haven't seen a single court case brought up against a school district for illegally discriminating against boys in education.

or health care

This has already happened. Many places deny services to homeless men, but not homeless women. Women have greater access to female-specific healthcare resources while men have nearly none. That is blatant discrimination, and a denial of men's right to equally effective care. This is incredibly evident in mental health, where men are over-diagnosed with disorders like ADHD and their very identity is labelled as a mental illness.

Or are tired by the endless media battering regarding anything male.

Indeed.

Most men have checked out.

And many choose the permanent option. Male suicide has climbed to a staggering number, numbering 22 per 100,000 people a year. That's 100 men a day deciding that it's just not worth it. Once every 14 minutes. The male participation rate in the workforce has dropped 11% since 1970 (80% -> 69%.) A 55% increase in the number of men choosing not to work. Men don't attend college as often, and basically, they see no reason to try. Society has given up on them.

Many of us are married or have partners and are now stuck dealing with the mess feminism has made.

Everyone is stuck with the mess feminism has made. I found evidence that male/female domestic violence homicides used to be nearly equal 50 years ago. Something that feminists crowed about was that women needed a safe place to escape from aggressive and dangerous partners, and claimed that most male DV homicide victims were killed in self-defense. Intriguingly, male victim DV homicide rates declined by about 80% since women's shelters and services were provided. Women's victimization rates of DV homicide have largely remained the same. Given that women are the perpetrators of DV 70% of the time in non-reciprocal cases, it would seem that most of the female deaths are also self-defense cases because men have nowhere to go.

How's that for a messed up situation?

And some of us aren’t going to fix it just to make it better for women.

I think that's the mentality already for most.

Kodiak01 · 2022-02-11T15:49:21+00:00

It's not about equality, and hasn't been for a while. It is about power and retribution for things that they believe happened to them.

maxlvb · 2022-02-11T23:16:41+00:00

Feminism is an ideology that claims to empower women by continually telling them how weak and vulnerable they are.

Men need feminism like bicycles need fish.

guitarb26 · 2022-02-12T01:04:14+00:00

Men don’t have equal rights in court(s), education, or healthcare…

Or reproduction. Men have no reproductive rights AT ALL. Men have reproductive responsibilities (the lion’s share, to say the least) but literally only women have reproductive rights (this is somewhat covered under the umbrella of ‘court(s)’ but I wanted to be specific/clear about that).

lostcymbrogi · 2022-02-11T14:38:29+00:00

My concern is that both sides, male and female, are poisoning the waters so much, that if we aren't careful both sexual and emotional relationships between men and women could suffer permanent damage.

I support equal rights across the board because anything less is dangerous. Being a male, I obviously am concerned about males. I, however, also like women.

They are wonderful not just sexually, but emotionally and intellectually. They often offer a different perspective which is sorely needed. They can do things I can't do and vice versa, but they are wholly my equals.

A world without men might collapse structurally. A world without women might just fade into nothingness. Most men do a shocking amount of things to impress or delight women. Without that drive pushing us, without that unique perspective delighting us, without those arms encircling us when everything collapses, we might legitimately just sit down and let ourselves slowly fade out of existence.

I know some men, and a few women, will bridle at my thoughts. Some men claim they don't need women. They say they are just fine without them. Some women claim they would be equally well off without men. Both groups, in my opinion, are fooling themselves.

We are two halves of an integrated whole. I don't speak sexually in this case, though you could. I speak psychologically. Our behaviors and thoughts tend to look at the world through very different perspectives. We need both perspectives if we are to survive as a species.

bawbag-t · 2022-02-11T17:55:04+00:00

That's a great point, in their best forms feminism and mens rights are pulling in the same direction right?

About equal opportunities and treatment, fixing toxic masculinity and female oppression two sides of the same problem surely.

Strigon_7 · 2022-02-11T18:19:28+00:00

OP, you are effectively arguing with FDS. You will fail. At worst youre arguing with those that FDS felt were too extreme for them. But it has to be said and I am glad you did.

anonymoususer6289 · 2022-02-11T21:49:10+00:00

two sides of the same coin. we have to help each other to make a better world for everyone

SuperStateSamBamCam · 2022-02-11T16:10:30+00:00

To the scared, angry women who lurk here, if you need to keep me or my sons down, expect Hell.

ManofGod1000 · 2022-02-11T15:15:25+00:00

That title you linked to alone made me laugh, thanks. :) As for the actual post and comments there, I briefly looked at it and decided it was a waste of my time and closed it.

elebrin · 2022-02-11T15:41:22+00:00

An important thing to note in all of this, that will help lend some perspective:

While female empowerment is primarily good for women, it can also be very good for men. Addressing issues that women face may require addressing issues that men also face.

The same thing is true the other way around: male empowerment is primarily good for men, but it has some very positive side effects for women, too. Addressing issues that men face may require addressing issues that women also face.

The problems arise when we try to fix issues for one side at the expense of the other, and this happens all the time. The only way we can prevent this is for groups of people to focus on things on both sides.

Igereth · 2022-02-11T15:43:41+00:00

Im happy to hear that. Im not scared or angry and I do think men need to be heard same as women. There are some men on here who seem to be anti women rather than pro men. We need to remember it's not men against women. It's not a gender fight. Inequalities are often promoted by both sexes against their own.

Angryasfk · 2022-02-11T14:53:45+00:00

Had a brief look at that. A pack of SJWs and moaning young women.

Not sure what their problem is: the “orange man” has gone, and “sleepy Joe” is in his place and has reappointed the appalling Lhamon woman. Perhaps it’s the Texas abortion law that’s got them upset, although I didn’t see it mentioned in any of the posts I looked at.

WanabeInflatable · 2022-02-11T14:45:18+00:00

She said, that she received hateful DMs after posting about getting promotions. And thats indeed pretty bad.

Do you guys receive hatred for posting something here?

Elliejq88 · 2022-02-11T17:34:18+00:00

Some are afraid of losing equal rights but some are afraid of women empowerment...those are men who are entitled and expect too much of women and like having the upper hand. Also, there are women who are entitled and expect too much of men and want the upper hand. Women who are not a fan of men having equal rights think they are superior, men who are not a fan of women having equal rights (and yes, many exist) think they are superior. Alot of man hating and woman hating is actually hating human nature.

I wouldnt even bother trying to explain to men anymore, especially not on here, how most of my past relationships (notice I said MOST not ALL) are more geared towards them more and not me, and how when I called them out on it, regarding wanting basic human deceny, I'm told I'm wrong and they make up excuses why they should have it their way. One ex, who god bless him at least was brutally honest about it, said "I'm allowed to have a douchey side and you are not." (This was after 6 months of dating, where he expected me to treat him better than he treated me). I often get told to go date women, when I do express this, which my response is "It would be the same." Because I dont blame men for this dynamic, I blame people. I dont call women my exes though, Im not a lesbian.

I have lurked anti-women subreddits and other forums for many years, pretty much most of their complaints change the genders and I have at least ex like that.

This is why I am not a fan of gendered subreddits usually.

Trojenectory · 2022-02-11T17:52:19+00:00

Look I agree that people are people. How you are treated should not matter what your genitals are. But there is a lot of history around this that should be remembered. Look at the suffragettes, originally they teamed up with the civil rights moments for voting rights. Unfortunately when the 15th amendment was passed women became resentful, and racism started to entwine with the suffragist movement. Not only are there men who are afraid of female empowerment that were born in the last two generations (look at the abortion debate, it’s not just men who don’t want female empowerment but it’s also other women), but women have only recently been allowed to be independent members of American society. Let us learn from our past and stick together. Humans rights for all is the next milestone and we must stick together no matter what. Please don’t check out, we need everyone to fight for a fair and just future. There are both women and men out there that want equity for all, just like there are both men and women out there that don’t. We cannot let us be divided by strife, that is how we all loose. Peace be with you. https://www.npr.org/2011/03/25/134849480/the-root-how-racism-tainted-womens-suffrage

DanteLivra · 2022-02-11T22:36:58+00:00

It's funny because patriarchy ideology indoctrinate women into thinking that it IS a zero-sum game. With that reasoning any power you give to women HAS TO be taken away from men. In contrast, any power you give to men (like building homeless shelters for example) HAS TO be an attack on women.

It's a very counter productive way of making a better society. No one is ever gonna win because there will always be a looser. The solution is to stop thinking about gender in causation terms (sexual assault is a crime against WOMEN). Instead we all need to think about gender in correlation terms (anyone can be victim of sexual assault, but more women report those crimes).

There's also the whole victim/agressor dichotomy that is completely flawed. It's not a matter of victim versus agressors, it's a loop, every agressors were victimized at some point. Victimisation generate agression, agression generate victimsation. It's a circle.

Rookie_Driver · 2022-02-12T00:12:21+00:00

Meanwhile on their feminist page they're hating us so hard, and here we are being wholesome

jonathaninfresno · 2022-02-12T00:46:42+00:00

Sadly the only way to win is by not participating. We are slaves to the system. The broken home IS the end game wake the fuck up

Slow-Brush · 2022-02-12T03:45:54+00:00

Not all women are man haters and are against men. I can vividly remembered when I was going though my divorce, there were this tough female judge who shows no mercy on the women who were in court with their ex husbands to be. Some of the women even screamed in the court saying they need another judge to preside over their divorce cases that " this female judge is totally unfair and very biased" 🤣🤣🤣

FruitierGnome · 2022-02-12T08:31:54+00:00

I wish I knew how. Feels like Zeus vs. Female fictional deity.

Practical-Rip6471 · 2022-02-12T09:08:15+00:00

This is how they think. Their religion of gender equality means they must believe that's how we also think. All their malice and manipulation, they project that our motivation is the same as their, then they lose their shit!

Huffers1010 · 2022-02-12T09:43:35+00:00

What's actually important here is is that the title of the post this parodies is not necessarily, or even that often, true. Yes, it should be possible for everyone to come out of this with improved lives. The problem is simply that we often don't see that happen. As far as modern feminism is actually about equality, for a sufficiently meaningful value of equality, I don't think most people have a problem with it.

The problem is that it too often isn't about that, and people often won't criticise it even when it's being used as a false flag for what basically comes down to inexcusable attacks on men. That's the problem. Not that most people actually take the hardline view. They don't. They just let it happen.

Elliejq88 · 2022-02-14T19:02:48+00:00

Update: I DMed two men in this post who responded with links to another subreddit. One described a teenage boy buying his mother an expensive dinner or Mothers Day because his "mom does a lot for him" and another of a woman saying a man is high value that she trains with for martial arts because he encouraged her to not give up on her hobby when she started to lose interest in it and that a female doing it is badass. They both responded the teenage boy just did that because he "has to" and the second guy said that to get sex from the girl (yet shes trained with him for years and hes in a relationship).

Alot of the male posters here do act like they value female empowerment when they type out their responses, but they dont.

kayakkii · 2022-02-20T16:12:44+00:00

i 100% agree with you, however, this subreddit has proven time and time again to be anti-woman , not pro-men. there are many other subreddits which i support and am an active member in which are men's rights, but this one is always tearing women down instead of building men up. i hope you can see where we're coming from. :)

edit ; don't get me wrong , i also notice the trend of many women's rights subreddits and activist's doing the same thing. trying to bring men down in order to make themselves equal, instead of trying to bring women up to men, like they should be. i don't support either men or women doing it

Ok_Calligrapher5776 · 2022-03-07T08:40:35+00:00

That goes the other way round too. I see many people who think that feminism is a danger to men, when feminism is supposed to work for both sexes. I realize that there are radical feminists who hate men but they are not the majority and neither should all feminists be painted in a bad light because of them. There are always problematic people in a movement but that doesn't mean that we should cancel the entire movement.

Majestic-Persimmon99 · 2022-02-11T15:30:24+00:00

What do you think about the feminist criticism towards men's rights activists that you cannot advocate yourselves and that the only things you advocate for are simply emotional knee jerk reactions to what feminists say?

There is no substance to this post you're just being snarky towards a feminist you realize that right?

Poette-Iva · 2022-02-11T17:29:01+00:00

Go to r/menslib, it's far, far better than here. :)

Horny20yrold · 2022-02-11T17:56:36+00:00

Pretty hilarious self-flattery of 2Dicks to think that anyone lurks at their circle jerk.

Candypandy07 · 2022-02-11T19:22:38+00:00

This sounds like those people who say "all lives matter"

Crushed_95 · 2022-02-11T20:31:19+00:00

Wait! So it was some dudes angry that this woman got a promotion? How Sway?

IcarusCS_ · 2022-02-12T01:35:43+00:00

Most, if not all, posts that I've seen from this subreddit are very uninformed and only see a single side to what is a very complex issue. An issue that requires an interdisciplinary perspective on sociology, anthropology, and political science - among other fields as well.

Men's rights and by all extensions women's rights are more and more becoming a partisan debate, when it should be a discussion on how we can move forward. You can't escape the effects of history. Values are entrenched and reach into places as small as our subconscious, to as big as our decisions.

At this stage in western society (as you cannot talk this generally on international issues), we can conclusively and through scientific method, see the effects of inequality of the past. As such, a tremendous amount of scholarship is dedicated to finding ways to change both the social institutions that were founded on inequality. And yes, still affect us today. Can you live without a foundation?

tl;dr, if women feel unsafe here it's because this community perpetuates an unsafe environment.

Edit: keep the downvotes coming. Just proves my point.

Elliejq88 · 2022-02-12T14:37:28+00:00

I'm not angry, I just get amused at men who say this but then get pissy when the woman actually does want an egalitarian dynamic

pm_me_your_buttbulge · 2022-02-11T20:53:10+00:00

The problem with America's race to the bottom is every group thinks allowing someone else to voice their troubles means taking away from their own.

Many angry women here, extremely often, got fucked over by men in similar'ish ways we got fucked over by women. It's important to acknowledge their animosity is due to trauma and a lack of therapy. What's frustrating about this is they have WAY more legal, social, and personal assistance in such regards than men.

I was just talking to my wife about escorts and how many of them explain how men just want someone to talk to and occasionally cry with. This implies many things. This means they don't trust therapists or psychologists (infer what you will from that) and don't trust their spouses enough to open up.

Compared to women who have their parents, friends, potential therapists, a random person at Target/Walmart/H-E-B.

In response to the TwoX post below with a similar title, I doubt very much that men of the last two generations are afraid female empowerment.

Very few are. They are for equality but modern feminism is not about that. It's about female empowerment. Meaning, for example, if they wanted equal treatment in the court room - this also means losing the bias in favor of women when it comes to custody. You will rarely find 2X or modern feminists being ok with that. In fact you'll be hard pressed to even have a discussion before they turn from polite to... rude or out-right verbally abusive and you hear a ban from 2X.

The core problem here, I've observed, is that feminists say "if you have problems, start a movement" - then when you join MRA they go "HAHA, look at the incel joining MRA" and then say "wait... you it's not fair to want equality in custody!".

The funny thing is the things men want equality for are very different and don't step on the toes of what women want equality for. There's no reason both can't be accomplished.

On another account I ran a test. Someone made some remark about how a woman shouldn't care about a man's opinion on something or another. I said something like "wow, that sounds sexist.. let's reverse the sexes here" and I got down voted into oblivion.

Honest discourse on Reddit is not a thing. Too many subreddits are moderated in favor of whatever the bias of the mod wants - but they'll never openly admit it or own that, they know good and well what it will imply. Instead they bury it and forget about it and if you dare talk about it anywhere else they throw a shit fit.

I want equality. I also want to comb over societies habits and laws and toss out what is old and stupid. Look at other countries and pull in what's good and ignore the bad.

But some of these people are bat-shit bonkers. Some, honestly, argued that an upskirt picture without your knowledge or consent is nearly as bad as being raped (penetration). Then another tried to argue that upskirt (same as above) was almost as bad as purposefully spreading STD's. Upskirt... meaning you don't know who did it, you aren't aware it happened.. is as bad as getting HIV or actually raped.

These people are the vocal and dangerous ones but luckily lack influence.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk and my ramblings. I'm going to take a nap as I think I've been up for 36 hours and ... I'm sure I'll wake up and go "the fuck did I write all this bullshit for?"

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