Swiss Man Identifies as a Woman to Retire Early

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Well I mean female animals can hunt too, apart from when they’re pregnant (I guess the stress of the male from having to protect and provide for the female and offspring might be a factor.) Lionesses do a lot of hunting. There’s a theory that bodies that can carry offspring are just wired to last longer - apply this to humans and our extension to life because of healthcare etc has us living a lot longer but women still outliving men by a bit. Estrogen is thought to be regenerative whereas testosterone can have the opposite effect, it decreases the ability of the immune system to fight off illness, makes a person more irritable (stress is not good for health) etc. Also having two X chromosomes instead of 1 x and a y like a man is thought to be more beneficial at fighting off infections & cancer. So there’s other factors than biological but the biological definitely can’t be underestimated

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I think that plays a pretty big part yeah, tho at least with the people around my age I've found that a lot more people would be "okay" with that, more than what I suspected, the thing is that very few know how to deal with other people releasing their emotions and prefer to avoid that (and as a guy who's pretty open about his feelings, at least way more than people I know, that's very hard to get through when people do that) It's only about education and harmful gender roles that teaches men that they should all be about protection and not show emotional weakness, but that's impossible to do all the time and any man eventually break. My father is like that too, I've heard he hide to cry when he heard some news I don't want to share here, he's very "traditionalist", I find the correlation pretty obvious, now I'm not an expert so I can't confirm if there is causation but if I had to guess I'd say very probably. Young people tend to be more and more progressive in my opinion, but I think that "men's rights" still isn't mainstream enough as it is viewed as just a backlash movement or something, by both men and women. But men around my age are starting to understand little by little that traditional gender roles does not fit them, therefore even if I would like it to be faster, men's rights will eventually stop being something viewed as only a conservative thing since men will eventually free themselves from their gender role just like women did.

So yeah, in short, I think this way of thinking comes from what's expected in a man, from most women and most other men, and that's what we usually call the "traditional gender role" which in the end, can be harmful and a lot of the time actually is imho, but it's bound to disappear one day

Sorry for the long post btw, I might have digressed a bit, I would make it more concise but it's not practical on mobile

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Ya.. True.. But all these benefits mean that you have less income (or you deliberately keep your income low to be eligible to such benefits)..

It will reflects in the gender- pay gap and less women being in higher positions in the companies...

Because being lower in hierarchy benefits women.
Being lower in hierarchy actually harms men.

No wonder, men try to compete and rise through the ranks.
Once we reach the top, these same feminists call it 'patriarchy'.

The reason more men are at the top is because men have no incentive to stay at the bottom.
Women instead can get welfare, or marry a rich guy or get pregnant by a rich guy.

Its not that all women opt for these easy routes, but even if 20-25% do it, you will get a pay-gap, as well as other gaps that feminists cry about.

And its impossible to eliminate. Coz you cannot stop women from being gold-diggers and men from being simps..

That's why I call it never-ending sinkhole.

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Depends on what basis you did what you did and what for?

I'm sorry if my joke was off putting, but I didn't meant to make light of your struggle.

I generally , personally, don't have anything with trans people , but I can't agree with the fact that you can change your gender.

I reject that ideology that you have the choice to choose in those matters.

You basically were handled a card by nature with your gender written on it, your parents and your genetics.

You can do a lot of medical procedures and look like a fine woman , even be a lovely one, but deep down you are still a man.

It's my philosophical point of view that is also based on biological evidence.

To truly transition into a female you'd need to be reborn , to have your every cell rewired with XX chromosomes.

Even then you encounter the "originality" paradox:Ship of Theseus.

Also to anyone looking to transition i'd recommend them to look into themselves and check first if the reason they don't identify with their current gender is out of hate for themselves or other psychological trauma or problem.

Some men are more feminine and some women are more masculine....it's nothing wrong with it, but wanting to change what you are to look like something you are not from the beginning is not the way to address the problems withing yourself, that's just my opinion.

As long as you are happy whathever flies , but i won't avert my eyes from the truth.

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I don't care more about women than men, I don't have more empathy towards either of them. But as women, it's on us to search solutions for our problems.

I'd like to debate this calmly, I'm not trying to attack you. I just think I'd like to show you our point of view.

To your second paragraph: - Yes, more men than women are killed

But: - How many men are killed by their partners or people close to them? Because this is the case in most murders for women. - It's a fact that men are also mainly killed by other men (but not their partners!).

What we try to say is that when a man is murdered, it's common that it's because of drug stuff, debts, bands, bets or some kind of conflict with someone they don't know.

But the most common reason for a woman to be killed is a controlling partner. Their killers want to control them, or they don't want her to be with anybody else if they break up... Or they're jealous. It begins not letting her go out with a short skirt and ends in a murder when she tries to break up (this actually happened last week).

In the center of this we find the thought that women are inferior, that they are objects owned by them (this can be or not be concious). And this thought affects us in every other aspect of our lives, more or less extremely.

It's not numbers, it's the reasons that matter here.

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

You raise some important points so I'll answer each of them the best I can while providing enough data to make the issue clear but not too much that it'd be overwhelming. I can discuss any of these in more detail further if you wish.

How many men are killed by their partners or people close to them? Because this is the case in most murders for women.

You realize this is an argument towards men being in greater need of safety in the street and not the other way around, right?

As you said, most murders of women are by close acquaintances and happen in private spaces. When it comes to murder (and also violence in general) in the streets, men are far more likely to be attacked or killed than woman. Which means the "women are afraid to go out" hysteria whenever a woman gets murdered in this context and not a man makes even less sense.

This is also an example of how feminism can hurt women too. All that exaggeration of women's safety and protection and disregard for men's safety and protection (or dismissing men's victimization as their own doing) creates a general view of women as passive elements in their lives and men as active elements. This leads to women not being taken seriously in e.g. social and professional contexts. It ultimately hurts women too, not only men.

What we try to say is that when a man is murdered, it's common that it's because of drug stuff, debts, bands

No, it absolutely isn't. This is a common feminist myth and form of victim-blaming that unfortunately a lot of people believe, but it couldn't be further from the truth. The vast majority of men being attacked or murdered have no connection with drugs, gangs (I think that's what you meant by bands) and so on.

In fact, while over 60% of violent crime is committed by 1% of the population which are repeat offenders, almost every man (89% of men) will suffer violent crime in their lives. It's more than obvious that 9 in 10 men are not part of those 1% of violent demographic, yet they are still being attacked.

The main reason why men are attacked and killed far more than women is the same reason why it happens to e.g. African Americans (even more so in past decades), and the same reason why e.g. African American victims are also less cared about. The reason is that people have less empathy towards men. Men's lives are valued less than women's and people (both men and women) feel a lot less remorse attacking/harming/killing a man than a woman. Society in general perceives aggression towards men less negatively than aggression towards women.

This is a phenomenon that permeates society as a whole, not just criminals (the latter are a by-product of it). This empathy gap has become so ingrained that even judges give smaller sentences to people who victimize men than people who victimize women.

This applies to both victims and perpetrators btw, female criminals are given lighter sentences than their male counterparts (sometimes it gets to the point that we propose not jailing women entirely).

As I have previously mentioned, the reason for this is the same as for any other group (e.g. African Americans) that suffers violent crime disproportionately: a constant message being delivered that these people are "dangerous" or a threat. When we're consistently told to perceive a given demographic as dangerous, we lose empathy towards that same group. And this always results in more violence towards said groups.

This is not exclusive to the previous examples of men and African Americans but also Muslims after the post 9/11 propaganda and Asians in 2020 when they were perceived as a threat due to Covid. An interesting fact, Donald Trump Jr's Skittles analogy on Muslims was originally from a post against men.

In the case of men this sort of propaganda is only getting more common. We have political parties calling for curfews on men because they're "dangerous to women", feminist books with statements such as "rape is a process through which all men keep all women in fear" being taught at academic level and used as source in police reports, viral posts with hundreds of thousands of likes comparing men to ticks, politicians stating in parliament that "women must assume all men are rapists and all men must take collective responsibility", billboards on the street stating "all men are dangerous" and of course, countless articles in mainstream media (Guardian, Washington Post, etc.) about "male violence" that look very similar to the "black violence" discourse of a few decades ago.

With all that taken into consideration, it's not surprising in the slightest that men are being targeted by violence far more often. Any group subject to the same kind of discourse is.

PART 1

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's a fact that men are also mainly killed by other men (but not their partners!).

The empathy gap affects both men and women, both men and women have more empathy towards women than they do towards men (this is consistent with more recent studies btw).

Moreover, the fact that you're inclined to give this answer shows that you are very much affected by the empathy gap. When you think about a victim of violent crime, do you think it matters to them which gender their attacker has? Do you think men will be less afraid going out at night if they're told that their attacker will have the same genitalia?

Sure we can (and should) talk about the reasons why men are more likely to commit violent crime (amongst which are men being more likely to be homeless, victims of violence themselves, being abused and suffer corporal punishment during childhood, etc. but that's a topic too complex for this discussion now). However this argument does exactly nothing towards the reality of violent crime victims and who has to live in fear for their safety. Instead, it completely deflects that discussion into a way to associate the male gender with violence: the very cause of the empathy gap that leads to so many men being victims of violence.

Now, an important factor here: is there any proof of this cause-effect relation, other than the fact that it's been verified in other groups? And yes, there is.

Apart from the previously mentioned studies about society's perception of male and female aggression and victimization, when it comes to its actual effect on men being attacked and killed, we do have the numbers and they show that show that before the 70s murder victims were evenly distributed between genders. It has since grown and gotten to the point that nearly 80% of murder victims are male. The 70s were also the decade where this "man=aggressor", "woman=victim" discourse emerged.

If the cause was organized crime/gang crime then the percentage of male victims would not have decreased, not increased as gang activity was much higher in countries like UK or US during the 80s than now.

If the cause was "patriarchal values" then again the number of male victims would not be lower in an older and therefore more traditional society.

If you want to learn more about the empathy gap and its effects on violence and discrimination both in terms of gender and race I recommend reading this article (unfortunately it's pay-walled here, but Google is your friend).

Of course, this is just touching the topic of violence victimization. The empathy gap has other serious and direct consequences, including men being over 40-50% of victims of domestic violence (70% of one-way domestic violence) and having less than 1% of resources, men being around 50% of rape victims in USA, 80% of which by women and not being recognized either by the CDC researchers studying it or the law, male victims of domestic violence being more likely to be arrested than their aggressors and so on. Only when we eliminate the "man=aggressor, woman=victim" paradigm and the resulting empathy gap can we hope to solve any of the issues above.

If you want to know more about what we can personally do to eliminate this trend, there is a nice comprehensive list made by another Reddit user in this post.

PART 2

[–]Angry_Waffle1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Angry_Waffle1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I find your points so interesting, it's ridiculous how we so strongly agree in some points and yet have so different perspectives. I'll try to make my responses easy to read:

Safety in the street

In that paragraph I was talking about how women suffer in private spaces and how their murderers are close to them, not about general murder cases or safety in the streets.

But to reply to your comment on streets, I agree on one point and disagree on the other. I also consider victimization hurts women because it makes them feel more helpless and a passive subject. Fear just makes us less capable. But on the other hand, it's true that women are much more likely to get raped or kidnapped, which are far more common than murders.

Again! I'm not saying violence towards men doesn't matter, but it has a different source and I'd like to talk about it next.

Less empathy towards men

First, thanks for dismissing the gangs thing, I'll keep that in mind.

To sum up your point, you wanted to say that men are perceived as dangerous, and suffer more violence as a result, right?

What a surprise we agree lol

BUT our difference here is that you believe that this stems from feminism and women accusing men, while I think it comes from traditional gender roles.

Historically, men have always suffered more violence. Because they had to be strong, agressive, dominant, and therefore we assume that they are less afraid or can endure violence better. It also makes men more propense to agressive behavior to 'show off' their masculinity. Women, on the other hand, had to be delicate, fragile, innocent, and would get really bad looks if any sign of agressive behavior was present.

Because of this, men suffer more violence. And this isn't a question feminism doesn't take into account. We believe that getting rid of this roles would also make men safer, because they wouldn't have this i-must-be-strong stigma. It's so frustrating to me when men don't realize it's also beneficial for them...

Then why feminism doesn't speak about this that often? On one hand, men tend to overshadow women so many are afraid feminism stops helping women and concentrates in men. On the other hand, we have no problem with you fighting against gender roles on your own, and we actually think it's your fight too in this aspect.

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

In that paragraph I was talking about how women suffer in private spaces and how their murderers are close to them, not about general murder cases or safety in the streets.

Ok that makes sense. I mentioned on the street because that was the original point that had been raised (e.g. the "women can't be safe going out" hysteria after the Sarah Everard case).

But on the other hand, it's true that women are much more likely to get raped or kidnapped, which are far more common than murders.

That is true, however it's also worth mentioning that violent crime numbers do account for these crimes (but not men who are raped by women unfortunately), and even when kidnapping and sexual crimes are counted as violent crime (which they should) the majority of victims are still men. The gap is smaller than the 3 in 4 that we see in murders though.

To sum up your point, you wanted to say that men are perceived as dangerous, and suffer more violence as a result, right?

What a surprise we agree lol

BUT our difference here is that you believe that this stems from feminism and women accusing men, while I think it comes from traditional gender roles.

Yes I have noticed the same.

The main point here in my view is that the discourse of picturing a group as a threat and its effect on the empathy gap and violence is verifiable. This is why I made sure to include sources not only referring to men but also minorities such as Muslims or African Americans (or Asians in the first year of the pandemic). The effect of that discourse in violence victimization is a consistent pattern that's visible regardless of the targeted group.

So in this case it's not really a matter of "I think it's this" vs. "I think it's that". There is evidence that this kind of discourse increases violence against a certain group. And there is no evidence of an exception when that group is men (in fact, data shows the opposite).

So the claim that this kind of "man=predator, woman=victim" speech causes the empathy gap and resulting violence is a verifiable one, not just a theoretical one. Sure you could say that "older ideas that men are strong" also contribute to it but that's a much less direct influence as well as more vague and not directly verifiable.

So while I don't want to dismiss your point entirely, I do think there are far more arguments towards eliminating this sort of discourse about men as the best way to solve the issue than any other approach. Not only the solution is far more direct ("stop portraying men as a threat") than the more vague "less traditional roles" answer, its effect on the desired outcome (solving the epidemic of violence against men) is verifiable and measurable.

Historically, men have always suffered more violence.

That's the important point here, it hasn't always been like this. As I have previously shown murder victims were 50% male before the 70s. They have since grown to almost 80% male.

This is due to 2 things: less tolerance of violence against women (which on its own is a good thing, and you have also mentioned in your other comment) and more tolerance of violence against men.

This is why the data on violence against men clashes so much with the overall trend of violent crime (which has fortunately decreased in the past couple decades), leading to the increase in male victims proportionately.

That being said, to make it clear, I don't think traditional gender roles do not have a part to play in it entirely. I'm pretty sure they do. What I am saying however, is that comparing to such a direct and verifiable effect, focusing on "gender roles" to solve this issue would be like focusing on the guy shooting a longbow while his mate is standing right next to him with a rocket launcher. That rocket launcher has to go, otherwise we're not getting anywhere.

Because of this, men suffer more violence. And this isn't a question feminism doesn't take into account.

I really disagree with this one. If that were the case, why are feminists the one who promote this "man=aggressor, woman=victim" speech the most?

Why is it that every time you see examples like the one I gave in the previous post, or statements like "teach men not to rape", "men don't know what it's like to live in fear", "male violence" and so on, it always comes from the feminist movement?

Whether it's articles in The Guardian, Vice, Washington Post, The Independent, etc. or quotes like "Under patriarchy, every woman’s son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman.", festivals excluding men because "they are dangerous" and campaigns such as this, it's always a feminist or feminist group behind it?

Why is it that every time people are attacked for stating that not all men are violent/predators, feminists are the ones attacking?

Why is it that whenever researchers like Erin Pizzey or Murray Strauss found out that women commit as much domestic violence as men, it was feminists who attacked them?

I am aware that not all feminists do this, the problem is: whenever someone does, it's always a feminist. A movement can't say they are opposing this issue while actively contributing to it. It's similar to USA claiming they're interested in keeping the peace in the Middle-East while being the ones bombing the hell out of it and arming insurgent groups there.

I have nothing against fighting gender roles, quite the opposite: I think it's important. However feminists can't directly and consistently spread an idea that stereotypes men as a threat and claim they are "fighting this paradigm because they're against gender roles". That's like giving a thirsty man poisoned water and then claiming "but I gave him water, I helped".

For women, it's been steadely decreasing (thanks to feminism maybe?).

Definitely, no doubt here. As I have stated before, more tolerance of violence towards men is one of the reasons for the change. The other is less tolerance of violence towards women, and that one by itself is a good thing. And it happened in great part thanks to the feminist movement. The real problem is that it came bundled with the reduced empathy towards men by having them depicted as a threat to women.

Ideally we should have this increased empathy towards women, but without the reduced empathy towards men.

[–]Angry_Waffle1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'll try to reply shortly now and reply to the empathy gap where I think your arguments concentrate.

Fist, you say men are raped and kidnapped too. But I think we're missing a point here. On one hand women do suffer this crimes more. On the other hand, the majority of men victims are children or very young. Women and children have been compared for ages, and seen as inferior and vulnerable in comparison with men.

About the empathy gap, I've said in another message that, according to the Departament of Justice of the United States, that information is false. Men murders haven't decreased, but they haven't increased either (they increased in the 90's but went down afterwards).

About feminism and the agressor-victim mindset. Sexism puts men in power and women under them, as racism puts white people in power over black people. That makes the person in power much more likely to abuse it in the expense of the others. If we combine this with men's higher predisposition to commit violent crimes, we find that most violent crimes against women are commited by men, and by men who are close to them and feel they should belong to them or do what they say.

In addition, when someone who's in power sees his position in power, he often feels attacked. That happens too with BLM, lots of white people feel attacked. Denouncing something problematic and frequent one group does doesn't mean everyone in that group does it. Instead of "they hate men/white people!!!" they thought "I don't do this horrible thing, but I know it's common inside this group and I'll collaborate to solve this problem" it'd be easier.

Any feminist knows everyone can be sexist, and most of us become feminists when we realize we're sexists too. That was my case. I was incredibly sexist when I was young and this movement has made me a lot happier.

Feminism hasn't made men murders increase.

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

On the other hand, the majority of men victims are children or very young.

When it comes to kidnapping, yes (but same applies to female victims). When it comes to rape, no. Far from it. As I have mentioned before, the CDC's 2010-2012 NISVS report found that in each of these years adult men reported being raped at the same rate as adult women or higher, and 80% of the perpetrators (for male victims) are women. Men are far more likely to be raped in adulthood.

About the empathy gap, I've said in another message that, according to the Departament of Justice of the United States, that information is false. Men murders haven't decreased, but they haven't increased either (they increased in the 90's but went down afterwards).

That isn't false, I have already explained it. Crime rate in general went down a lot in the past few decades. Male violent crime victims were the exception, not decreasing at all (at some point even increasing as you pointed out). The reason why men still suffer violence at such a high rate when nobody else does is the empathy gap. That is also the reason why, verifiably, there was no such gap in violent crime victimization decades ago and men went from 50% to 80% of murder victims in the last few decades.

About feminism and the agressor-victim mindset. Sexism puts men in power and women under them

That is, by itself, a very sexist generalization, which contributes to the empathy gap. Do you really think a man who is abused by his partner and is arrested instead of her has any "power over her"? Do you think a man raped by a woman (which happens as often as the opposite but isn't recognized by law) has any power over her? Do you really think the group that has less legal rights, is discriminated by both courts (at a 6 times higher rate than African Americans in USA) and education (even though men are already disadvantaged in it) is the one who "has power" just because they have male genitalia? There's a definition for that statement: dogma. This mentality is exactly why so many MRAs see feminism as a cult rather than a movement.

If we combine this with men's higher predisposition to commit violent crimes

That is another feminist myth. Men do not have a "higher predisposition to commit violent crimes", men are more likely to commit violent crimes for the same reason why African Americans and Latinos are more likely to commit violent crimes: because of social, legal and economic factors that put them at a disadvantage.

The following factors are known to contribute to your likelihood of being a violent criminal:

- Homelessness (which disproportionately affects not only minorities, but also men).

- Being abused as children (which happens mostly at the hands of mothers), something that is even more relevant when it comes to rapists and sex offenders.

- Suffering corporal punishment as children. This has also shown to strongly influence the odds of domestic violence perpetration. Once again, guess which groups are very disproportionately affected by this: ethnic minorities and men.

- Violent crime victimization: violent crime victims (both as children and adults) are more likely to commit violent crime themselves. When 9 in 10 men suffer violent crime during their lives, guess what the result is.

- Substance abuse

- Trust in the law to help them. In other words, when you suffer domestic violence and calling the police is more likely to get you arrested than the abuser, you lose both trust and respect towards the law and are more likely to act on your own and against the law rather than relying on it. As previously stated, this is another issue that affects both men and ethnical minorities.

And that's not even touching the fact that men who are brought to extreme poverty, homelessness, abusive partners, etc. are far less likely to have a program or funding from the government to help them, once again leading to desperate (and criminal) behaviour.

Feminists saying that "men have a predisposition to commit violent crime" is no different from the far-right saying "blacks have a predisposition to commit violent crime". It deliberately ignores the social and institutional factors leading to it and instead places a blanket definition ("violent") on the demographic itself.

That happens too with BLM, lots of white people feel attacked.

Strange that you mention BLM, where the very same discrimination towards black people that started the movement (police violence and murder) also very disproportionately targets men.

This is one of feminist's biggest flaws, and a shocking one considering the movement calls itself "intersectional". Feminism is so blinded by the dogma of patriarchy theory ("men and white = in power, everyone else = oppressed") that they fail to realize that discrimination affecting men is often the same as the discrimination affecting e.g. African Americans. And most of the time it stems from a negative portrayal of the group as violent or a threat. Socially and legally men as a demographic have a lot more in common with African Americans than women do.

Denouncing something problematic and frequent one group does doesn't mean everyone in that group does it.

That is twisting my words and examples. There's a difference between "denouncing something problematic" and portraying an entire group in a bad light.

Let me ask you one thing very honestly: Do you really think articles such as "why can't we hate men", political statements like "men should have a curfew because they are dangerous" or "women must assume all men are rapists" and feminist quotes such as "Under patriarchy, every woman’s son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." do not decrease empathy towards men and increase the rate of violence against men?

And if so, do you believe this also applies to any other group or is it only ok and without consequence when it targets men? Do you also believe portraying black people as violent, rapists or criminals (statistically it makes as much sense as men), portraying Muslims as terrorists, etc. does not reduce empathy and increase violence towards these groups?

[–]Angry_Waffle1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Hey, this is getting a little long and I have already replied to some things, such as the men's murders actually staying the same (data that I verified).

If you don't think men hold a position of power then it's going to get so long we could be debating for days. Hate towards men isn't implanted in society, and all this women you see saying they hate men on the Internet aren't refering to you, but to men who abuse their power. At least the difference is clear where I live, we have something like men and mEn, to refer to good and bad men and I find it so appropiate.

Also, of course some legal decisions can be a huge mistake, but that's not chosen by all feminists. I know lots of 'feminist' measures I'm against.

Well, I think we won't reach an agreement soon. Thank you for writting, this was really interesting and helped me understand your pov, although I can't agree.

Have a nice day!(

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

such as the men's murders actually staying the same (data that I verified).

I feel like you're just pretending to not understand my words at this point. I have already explained this twice. As I have mentioned before, proportionally they did. That is a fact.

The only reason why they "stayed the same" in absolute numbers is that violent crime in general dropped a lot. However despite that drop, the killing of men was the only one that did not drop. That's because we have less violent criminals in general, however those who are violent criminals feel less remorse attacking or killing men. Something that did not happen before the 70s.

As I also mentioned before, even the law itself punishes you less for victimizing men. As the data I originally provided shows, in UK the killings of men even increased despite the overall drop in violent crime.

All of this is verifiable, not subjective.

You also never answered this question:

Let me ask you one thing very honestly: Do you really think articles such as "why can't we hate men", political statements like "men should have a curfew because they are dangerous" or "women must assume all men are rapists" and feminist quotes such as "Under patriarchy, every woman’s son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." do not decrease empathy towards men and increase the rate of violence against men?

And if so, do you believe this also applies to any other group or is it only ok and without consequence when it targets men?

As for this:

Hate towards men isn't implanted in society

In all honesty you are free to believe that of course, however if despite all evidence that I've given you of the opposite you still choose to hold on to this view do not be surprised if people don't take you seriously when you claim you "don't have less empathy towards men".

all this women you see saying they hate men on the Internet aren't refering to you, but to men who abuse their power.

You know this is the same argument the alt-right uses, right? "When we say blacks we're talking about the criminals and rioters, not you", "When we say Muslims we're talking about the terrorists and rapists, you're not one of those right?" - The fact is, if you say "men", "blacks" or "Muslims" you are altering public perception of that group and therefore society's empathy towards them. Regardless of what you claim your intentions or "actual targets" are.

If you want to dig more into the subject on your own and about what I'm referring to when I say the empathy gap (and its causes) is verifiable while patriarchy theory is not, I have made a summary with a compilation of sources on the topic in this Egalitarianism post. I didn't have the time to develop on some of these topics in our discussions (such as how men are treated in our society and law being consistent with how women, not men, are treated in a patriarchy) but there it's explained in more detail.

Apart from that there's really not much more I can say on the topic that I haven't already.

[–]VictoriaNightingale -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Frosty-Gate-8094 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

90% people who are assaulted or murdered on streets are men... This increases to 97% when it comes to workplace fatalities.

I didn't get what are complaining about...

Men don't cry about it, coz its not in our nature...
If women feel unsafe on streets, they can stay at home..

Men feel unsafe too. But we don't have a choice..
Coz if we dont go out and work at night, the world will come to standstill..
Even the electricity that keeps your house warm at night, comes from the power stations where 99% night shift workers are men..

Men don't go out at night to 'have fun'. We do so to feed our families.
If the society doesn't care. Then so be it..
You can avoid having fun at night. Nothing bad will happen to the society.

Wait for the day men start complaining, because they won't just stop the fun activities... A lot of activities will stop. Good luck living in such a society.

[–]VictoriaNightingale -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fearless-File-3625 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Frosty-Gate-8094 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

My shift used to end at 2 am..

And the company used to provide night escort to female employees, but guys like us had to fend for ourselves..

My landlord warned me not to carry anything valuable with myself, coz the area isn't very safe at night...

We used to also get that night shift more often, coz it was costly for the company to arrange night escorts (for women)...

Ultimately I left the company and now I earn twice as much with better schedule...
Most male employees left coz of this injustice.

Now they have 90% female staff, and they are hiring men at twice the salary they offered me. But they still don't find men to work for them..

That's what happens when men are treated unfairly..
We dont whine and cry.
We act selfish..

And a society can afford whiny women, but not selfish men.. Remember that..

[–]VictoriaNightingale -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm saying that a woman has less of a chance to successfully protect herself against the physically stronger attacker.

I thought these were what feminists called "patriarchal views". So feminists suddenly agree with them when convenient? Do you also believe a physically stronger man should earn more, since he can perform extra tasks at work that women cannot?

It isn't true?

If it were true there wouldn't be far more men being killed then women. Yet there are.

The vast majority of people who will attack you in the street (with whichever purpose, robbery, murder, sexual assault, etc.) do so when they're in a position of advantage over the victim. Either they are are armed or they are in groups or they take you by surprise, etc.

In these conditions the average man is as powerless to do anything as the average woman (as you might realize by crime victim statistics). Even police themselves say that resisting is the worst thing you can do (they've told me that and I'm a man) because it can only draw more violent behaviour towards you instead. Real life is not Hollywood.

So no, unless you are some karate master or you have a gun, you do not "have a fighting chance" regardless of what genitals you have. And if you are some karate master or you have a gun, then your gender doesn't really matter.

That being said, your original question was "how many men get murdered and kidnapped in the streets". The answer is "far more than women".

Your other question was whether men also have to be afraid at night. And the answer once again is: "yes, more so than women".

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Ah yes, a nirvana fallacy. What's next, "instead of making the draft gender-neutral why don't we have no draft at all?" Or even better, why don't we just have no wars?

Countries all over Europe (and not only) are raising the retirement age due to the increasing life expectancy (which is higher for women than men btw), yet feminists believe somehow Switzerland will make an exception for men, right? Actually feminists don't believe that, they just claim to. That's why there were no feminist protests against the higher retirement age for men in Switzerland until it was proposed to be made equal.

This is a typical feminist tactic, whenever MRAs call for gender equality (father's rights, ending the male-only draft, support for male domestic violence victims, equal retirement age). To call for an unrealistic solution they know will not be implemented and use it as an excuse for refusing any other solution that would give men equal rights under the law.

Btw Switzerland is not the only country where feminists were the ones protesting against equal retirement age. They've done the same in UK.

If you really are interested in knowing the reason behind such discriminating laws and ideas I recommend you read The Empathy Gap.

If you are interested in the role of the feminist movement in this empathy gap (obviously, apart from depicting men as a threat and women as human and deserving of protection and empathy) as well as directly influencing discrimination against men here is a comprehensive list, and if it's too much to read at once here is a shorter one.

Though judging from your previous replies, I'm guessing you're not actually interested in learning about any of that.

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Title	Swiss Man Identifies as a Woman to Retire Early
Author	TheSpaceDuck
Upvotes	1198
Comments	221
Date	February 14, 2022 5:32 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ssg7vw/swiss_man_identifies_as_a_woman_to_retire_early/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/swiss-man-identifies-as-a-woman-to-retire-early.1102354 https://theredarchive.com/post/1102354

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