What exactly forms a man into a "natural" ignoring uncontrollable genetics and circumstances?

A_Refill_of_Mr_Pibb · 2022-04-24T17:03:55+00:00

I'd think my little brother learned from my mistakes, rather than my guidance. What he witnessed: I spent my teen years playing video games and listening to music in my bedroom. In high school I never want to parties, never went to dances, never hung out with friends, barely HAD friends, didn't go to prom, didn't go to grad nite, never went on dates. In college I commuted, unable to make friends, got laid twice (early 20s). The friends I had in my 20s were degenerate, unemployed misfits. He watched me struggle with money, with social isolation. I'll be 40 years old in November, and I have yet to go on my first proper date, let alone get laid or be in a relationship. I'm pale, baby faced, bad haircut, man boobs, a gut, skin problems, eczema, depression, agoraphobia, likely low T and pre-diabetic considering my lack of energy all the time.

Here is how he responded: he was surrounded by friends, including many girls, he lettered in varsity baseball and football. He was always popular with women, went to parties, went on dates, went to prom, played sports in college. Made friends who were social. Was never home when we were young. Graduated college 5 years before I did. Always had a pretty girlfriend. Learned from the relationships that didn't work out. Got married in his late 20s. The marriage didn't work out, but he is in a better relationship now, which may possibly be his 2nd marriage. He is the most fit dude I know. Extremely disciplined, tanned where I am pale, fashionable where I hide in 2XL t-shirts, masculine and powerful. Strong personality. Steamrolls right over me. Good career with a future. He is 36.

When I asked him about all this, my brother told me he learned a lot from me but left it at that. I'm proud of him. When I hung up and looked in the mirror, it was a different story.

cocomoe · 2022-04-24T15:33:52+00:00

From my own experience nurturing a younger brother who struggled socially initially, and did not have a masculine role model (besides what I, as a big sister, tried to embody as best I could):

- Needs to have experienced at least one close, trusting relationship with a girl/woman. Whether it's a mother, sister, aunt, cousin, schoolfriend, or whatever. This relationship should have involved some sense of emotional attachment, as well as conflict.

- Needs to feel comfortable expressing aggression with other people. (Not necessarily with everybody, but with certain people at least.)

- Needs to be able to have successful friendships with other boys and men. Bare minimum of one close, trusting friendship - this goes beyond the ability to have surface level mates, or be part of a group. Needs to have experienced, at least once, a close trusting relationship with a friend, within which authenticity and honesty and vulnerability is possible.

- Curiosity and willingness to learn

- Sense of humour and/or the ability to make mistakes or embarrass oneself.

- A relationship with the Self, is able to get in touch with his own thoughts and feelings (at least occasionally!) and allows himself to be guided by these where appropriate. Even if this means going against what others do/think/want.

Friedidli · 2022-04-24T15:14:34+00:00

Get him heavily socialised in contact sport with a low risk of brain injury.

And incentivise him for reading books. ,Like 10 $ If you read this book and tell me what it's about.

Encourage academic achievement.

Do not dissuade him from hanging out with friends and having slumber parties. Host them on a rotational basis with other parents.

If he expresses interest in anything niche - teach him or get him started.

Teach him all the manly skills you know . Debating someone and dismantling their arguments is also a manly skill.

Teach him the value of abstract concepts like honour and the doctrine of trusteeship.

If he ever gets into a fight - hear him out and respond accordingly.

If possible get him an apprenticeship at a garage or if you know how to, teach him about cars.

Help get him a car in highschool/college.

Teach him early on that being a good dude is something you are not something you do for a reward. You are a good person for your own concisience.

Teach him that dating is basically sales - he needs to look good l, dress good and advertise who he is be being proactive about everything - sports, academics and life. And never belive people when they say - " it will happen don't worry!"

Fund his college/ or help pay for his first home.

Teach him it's ok to try and reach for the skies when he is alone and single. I am there for that reason. To catch him if he stumbles.

But when he has a family, he has to do the responsible thing and put them ahead of himself. He has to be me to his own son.

Have the sex talk with him early and teach him consent and birth control. (13years)

SUS_pended · 2022-04-24T16:41:39+00:00

get him to learn martial arts. that way people won't bully him. they will respect him which in turn make him more confident, being more confident will make him interact easily, positive attention will in turn make him more confident. it will snowball itself, you just need to do the initial push that's all.

my parents did a huge mistake by not getting me into sports as a young kid. I ended as a loser nerd that played video games and was bad at sports as a result. So, that's what I would do if I was a parent. Get your kids to sports as soon as possible. No fucking video games. That shit will kill their childhood.

FrostieTheSnowman · 2022-04-24T19:56:55+00:00

Make sure he has a true friend or two his own age.
Teach him the basics of how to fight and stand up for himself. Before you ever teach him how to fight, teach him that he should never fight unless he or someone else is genuinely threatened. Model this behavior, and teach him how to de-escalate situations.
Teach him that just because someone insults him, that doesn't mean it's true. His self-worth should never be determined by others–this one's really hard, and not everybody is capable of it, but do your best. If he can poke fun at himself in a playful manner (not a genuinely self-deprecating one), he will make more friends, save face in social situations, and exude far more confidence than a bully.
Make sure he understands that being in a relationship isn't everything. Help him pursue his interests and hobbies, so that he has things to live for outside of simple survival and family-rearing.
Even if he's not interested, ensure he knows the bare-bones basics of car repair (how to change a wheel, who to call for what), basic household maintenance, chores, cooking, etc.
Teach him finances as early as humanly possible. Make sure he knows what bills are, what makes the numbers go up and down, take him with you when you make withdrawals and deposits at the bank, and guide him in making up a mock-budget. Do similar things for healthcare, home-renting, home-ownership. Don't let that kid enter the workforce an idiot like my parents did.
Teach him hygiene. This one seems obvious, but it's truly mind-boggling how few men know the importance of moisturizing, washing their hair correctly, brushing teeth correctly, etc.
Teach him that it doesn't matter a lick what other people or society at large think or say, he is a man, and that is okay. He doesn't have to adhere to every stereotype or social norm for how men behave; he is his own person and his life is his to live.
Teach him how he should treat women (or men, if he swings that way). Respect rules of consent, protect your partner physically and emotionally, support their interests, show your love in as many ways as possible, never take them for granted.
Teach him what healthy boundaries look like. Don't put up with disrespect, consent matters for you too, etc etc. Make sure he knows that it's okay to expect things from others, as long as they are reasonable expectations he himself can also meet.

TL;DR: Teach this boy how to be a man. Do not teach him how to "get chicks." Men who live for themselves, and who show mastery, leadership, and emotional intelligence will do alright for themselves as long as they aren't genuinely hideous. Even so, there are still partners out there who will look past hideous looks under the right circumstances. Either way, you want him to generate self-worth and become his own man. Starting a family is important, but it is secondary.

athlete2biz · 2022-04-24T15:21:37+00:00

honestly as much as the "gender is a social construct" and the "toxic masculinity" people would strongly oppose this.

Sports.

Seriously, playing team sports for a man helps him socially, with team work, confidence, success, health, etc.

as a 28 year old, you can honestly just tell if a guy has never played team sports in his life.

I think its one of the best things a young man can do, it will help him with almost all aspects of life.

especially with gynocentric academia which tells men to sit there, not have energy and act like girls. also keep him away from being put on adderall and similar drugs unless absolutely necessary

CocoBabeNYC · 2022-04-24T16:12:06+00:00

If I had a son, I would teach him first and foremost to be fiercely loyal to himself first and then anyone else. I would teach him that how he feels about himself is the key to success in life and with women and that men who like themselves more than they like others (which doesn't mean they should disdain others or dislike them, that would be narcissistic personality disorder) will always be welcome in a woman's bed. I would teach them confidence and self respect and to not tolerate bullshit from others. This of in itself will make them top 0.0001% men.

Hungry-Adagio2152 · 2022-04-24T20:17:43+00:00

Really surprised to see so many people suggesting that things like sociability can’t be learned, or that one’s environment and upbringing don’t have a huge influence on these things.

wtknight · 2022-04-24T15:30:29+00:00

Just look at the young men who are sexually successful. The guys I knew in high school who were either came from money or were athletes in specific sports, so if I wanted my kid to be a “natural” I’d either try to make a lot of money or get them involved in one of those sports.

Other guys I knew who weren’t rich or athletes sometimes had girlfriends, but I wouldn’t call them “naturals” as they didn’t have many women seeking their attention.

smallstarseeker · 2022-04-24T16:43:00+00:00

Having a good personality, character, sense of humor are all essential for building meaningful relationship but if you want to make women sleep with you you also have to make them horny. If you fail to do so women will only want you as a friend.

And then I would explain to him all stuff that makes women horny, such as fit and muscular body, dominance, his status desirability of other women toward him...

And I would point out that women like to lie on what makes them horny and tell him that he shouldn't listen to the random blue pill B.S.

-If men learn early on what the rules of the game are then... well most of them do not feel butthurt even if they fail at it. If men are lied about the rules of the game then when they fail they do feel cheated and butthurt.

2022-04-24T15:20:31+00:00

Most of it is genetics. If your kid has good awareness and good looks, all you have to do is nudge them in the right direction. If your kid doesn’t have those, especially the awareness, it’ll feel like nothing you say or do works. So my advice is to recognize your kids genetic potential early on and set realistic expectations.

DivineWakaloon · 2022-04-24T15:06:45+00:00

One can't teach it. You can't teach a mental ability.

You might as well ask if you can teach a highly autistic person to understand social cues and never make a faux pas in social situations.

You can maybe teach IDGAF attitude toward life, and not take anything seriously, and live entirely for oneself, but mostly likely you'll just create a spoiled, entitled, brat.

You can't make non-social people gregarious, successful, flirty, funny, intelligent, wise, verbose, and well educated.

You either are born with abilities like humor, and social skill brains, and things that can facilitate that, or you're not.

It's like being tall, you can't teach someone to be 6'4" millionaire Chad.

You're born with it, or not. If you can "learn" it or be "taught" it you already had it and didn't use it.

Medi-Monkey · 2022-04-24T15:27:36+00:00

Honestly if I had a son, I'm just gonna pump him full of GH, GnRH, and anastrazole from age 10 to 14. Then put him in sports at age 14, and teach him about the red pill, income maxxing, and female nature. And let him develop his own convictions about life without worrying about when their next meal will come. He needs ro learn to be a "natural" on his own. My job is to simply give him the tools to succeed in life and teach him about some basic psychology.

Personality and condlfidence just comes comes down to how well you can influence other people to like you. As a man nobody is gonna help you out just cause you're a "good guy".

The vast majority of this sub is a product of their fathers neglect and/or demented obsession with income maxxing, status, all while ignoring all other facets of the child's development. These dads are pretty asocial themselves and never would have survive in today's dating market, but survival confirmation bias makes them feel like they know everything so they pass down some pretty ancient advice about life to their son.

A child knows fully well where they stand in the social hierarchy by the time they're in 4th grade. And if dad is just an out of touch boomer then that kids life is gonna be set to nightmare mode.

trilobright · 2022-04-24T15:51:11+00:00

Almost by definition you can't "become" a natural. In college a friend of mine used to literally have me talk to girls he liked over AIM pretending to be him, because I just naturally knew how to flirt with and flatter a girl. He was always looking over my shoulder, but he never became good at it himself, because he just wasn't blessed with those instincts. It is what it is, you just have to recognise what your strengths and weaknesses are and try to make them work for you.

SabrineYasmine · 2022-04-24T17:49:36+00:00

He does not need to learn to grow into a man because he is already male.

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ZealousidealAd7191 · 2022-04-24T17:14:58+00:00

“Just getting it” doesn’t help when you have other people participating in the disfunction

doggiedoc2004 · 2022-04-24T17:39:24+00:00

I have an 11 year old son now he looks like he will be very handsome and is very smart but probably short (I’m 5’1 dad is 5’11)

be the best version of yourself possible.
I’m into fitness and weightlifting and am already starting him on the fundamentals
minimizing computer/online focus
no social media or smart phones until 16
teaching to cook and help out around the house. My husband and i display what at egalitarian relationship looks like
cultivate good social skills and an interesting, humorous, outgoing witty personality

Once age appropriate - have discussions on evolutionary biology as it relates to relationships with other people especially women - discuss porn and the harms excessive use can have on your wiring and how one treats women - how to be masculine/confidence without being a misogynist and/or an asshole (his father is a great role model - he is masculine type A confident - enough so that he prefers a confident strong woman) - affirmative consent in all encounters - especially try to avoid encounters when alcohol or drugs are involved. - some bitches be crazy. Avoid those.
- go to college and get into the professional class. Ie doctor dentist lawyer - I know a ton of short professional men who have great looking career oriented wives! - only date and give your heart to women who share your goals and values. Best to marry in your class. Dont date or marry gals with no ambition or education

throwaway164_3 · 2022-04-24T17:52:47+00:00

It’s all (mostly) genetics

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-04-24T18:57:40+00:00

I will teach my son everything in my power to be high value without making him jaded towards women.

I will teach him how to be masculine, how to argue effectively and how to be open-minded.

Midnight-writer-B · 2022-04-24T19:32:35+00:00

I like your prose. “Growing into a man who doesn’t waste his life on gender debate forums” is a good goal. Having sisters & girls as actual friends helps to see girls/ women as full people instead of NPCs. Going outside and having active hobbies helps you have healthier dopamine sources. Having self discipline and a growth mindset helps. Reading & watching a variety of things helps with humor, intelligence, conversation. Participating in society live instead of on the internet teaches you good social skills and how to enjoy people. Overindulgence in theory, especially in internet echo chambers, is bad and makes you feel as if you’re owed something. It makes you argumentative and petulant.

NotARussianBot1984 · 2022-04-24T21:47:23+00:00

Men don't learn until they are ready to learn. TRP doesn't redpill men, women redpill men. Men choose the blue pill until they are burned and are forced to accept the redpill.

So basically, you can't teach them, you can only say you are available for teaching when tehy are ready.

Aclopolipse · 2022-04-24T22:13:34+00:00

How would you help your son/nephew grow into one so he doesn't end up wasting his life on gender debate forums?

Lmao I'm triggered

But for realsies, it's rather uncommon to have a person who is socially competent in all areas of life besides dating, so it would logically follow that to be a "natural" requires already having good social skills.

When you're young, much of this is out of your control. Some parents really nurture a child's social development (signing them up for every activity ever) while others don't or can't.

But as you become a teen, getting involved in various school and community teams/projects/activities as well as having multiple friend groups is the way to do it. Meet different types of people, too - diversity is a strength here, unironically. Take risks - asking for something, standing up for yourself or someone else, or even making an adventurous joke - and if you get burned, take the experience as a learning opportunity and grow as a person.

Eventually, you'll come to see dating as just making friends, but with extra steps.

Lateralanouncer · 2022-04-24T23:48:02+00:00

I have know idea but will share my weekend with my sons.

Over the weekend I took my 2 sons on a hunting trip. . They are not boys anymore they are young men. They know how to prepare for a weekend away. They know how to hunt for food. The cost of taking a life to feed the family. The physical effort of carrying the animal. Then the overnight camping etc. They ended up pushing me to walk further climb more mountains than I would have without them. After all that i had to rest. What happend next was a father moment for me as they outperform myself. While resting at camp they went out again on their own to come back after dark. I had no reason to not trust them with firearms and adventuring on their own.

At 14 one of the young men has 5 years boxing under his belt.

The other 13m is more academic and is at a male only boarding school, gym in the morning he is a competitive tennis player with above average grades. This morning day after hunting trip. I drove 3hours to drop him at a 1 week tennis camp.

vtribal · 2022-04-25T00:21:55+00:00

Upbringing. After high school not much can be done with that regard

LotBuilder · 2022-04-25T00:28:42+00:00

I have five sisters that basically laughed at me for any stupid thing I did or wore or said. Understanding how particular women were was huge advantage. I never had a problem attractive women, i’m just on this forum because I got burned in a divorce and it read pilled the shit out of me. I still don’t really struggle to attract women, but I will say understand them better now after going through my divorce and finding RP forums. Mostly it was information I knew internally but didn’t know how to put into words

Obi-Brawn-Kenobi · 2022-04-25T12:50:34+00:00

and being the liked guy everywhere?

You can't please everyone. You're not going to be liked everywhere. Nobody is. Expecting everyone to like you becomes an unsurmountable burden. Set more realistic goals to become the best (not perfect) version of you, and find your niche where your best self can thrive.

Karmanger · 2022-04-25T14:11:45+00:00

I think a "Natural" Is just someone who is able to learn from other peoples success/failures and they keep their own failures quiet while everyone only focuses on their success.

A natural also usually (but not always) has a role model who they are basing their actions on.
(Snoop dog had a pimp for a role model, etc)

Drive-By-Cuckers · 2022-04-25T18:25:10+00:00

I used to be the captain of a wrestling team and part of that responsibility was being a role model and shaping younger guys into upstanding people

Similarly I recently finished pledging a fraternity. A big part of that process was learning what it means to be a man and embracing the brotherhood of all men.

I think the most important qualities you can believe in are

Simplicity (honesty to both others and yourself) Perseverance/courage Integrity community Equality And humility through service (helping others)

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-04-26T14:30:01+00:00

So this is weird: but a general lack of respect for their parents. My brother and partner both regard their parents as irresponsible overgrown children and have from a young age. Because they broke down this fundamental need for approval from their parents as unimportant and respect from people who would usually demand it, it has meant they don't seek approval or validation from others.

They are self contained self esteem machines who base their worth on their knowledge, their friendships, and following their interests.

Not giving a fuck is basically the ultimate life hack.

Conversely my male friends who desperately have sought parental approval are complete messes.

Ohmaygahh · 2022-04-26T15:18:04+00:00

A natural man becomes a natural by having many positive, pro social forming experiences in his most formative years, and continues to have positive experiences with his peer age cohort creating a positive feedback/re-enforcing cycle.

Lotus_82 · 2022-04-24T17:53:05+00:00

Avoid video games, do as much team sports as you can and individual combat sports as well.

Video games make you socially retarded and usually make guys fat losers who never lose their virginity because they’re not physically active and eat too much crap and because no woman wants to hang out with a dude who’s “hobby” is video games. And they also encourage men to rage quit when they’re losing and act like immature kids who don’t know how to deal with not getting what they want.

In addition to the health benefits of having a good body and increased testosterone, sports teach men to lose gracefully and to win with humility. It teaches them self-control, unlike video games.

Also I’ve never ever met a guy who identified as a “gamer” who was successful with women. Like ever.

pearllovespink · 2022-04-24T19:20:21+00:00

I think my parents did a great job making me a well rounded person. However, dating and marriage isn’t really taught to girls in my culture. We’re told to get an education, keep our heads in the books, and don’t get pregnant. I learned how to date on my own.

Now you said “men” and not women so I’ll just say my husband and I will teach him how to treat a woman. It’s mind boggling on here how some men like to pretend how everything is equal so women deserve to be treated just like them. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Secondly, I would make sure my kid is well rounded. A lot of men on here are socially awkward.

Lastly, you have to really be supportive of your child no matter what. Uplift and motivate them. Give them compliments. Make them feel good about themselves. Make sure they’re well dressed and look presentable. The men on here wouldn’t have half these problems if they had some confidence and pride in themselves.

BayleShira · 2022-04-27T09:42:44+00:00

My only experience so far is in watching my teenage son navigate social situations.

He just turned 13, and has not had a girlfriend yet - but girls are all over him everywhere he goes. His best friend's gf was even pursuing him. I started to notice that he treats girls differently than the other boys do. They are already learning to harass girls, "flirt" with them (even though it's in an intrusive and obnoxious way) and play annoying little games. My son doesn't do any of that. He just talks to the girls the same way he talks to the guys. I think that I have taught him not to idolize the idea of sex and relationships and we've rejected the stigma of marriage defining you. We are quite feminist in our home, but not radical feminist by any means- so he has utmost respect for women who deserve it. I think it's important to have these talks with your sons, because most of the prior generations just didn't get those conversations with their own parents. He does come by some of it naturally because my husband is a very dominant personality, but I think most of it is from my involvement as a very strong, queer woman teaching him how to approach life. That's probably a big piece of the puzzle - work on teaching emotional maturity, foster healthy relationships, and FUCKING TALK TO YOUR KIDS.

Title	What exactly forms a man into a "natural" ignoring uncontrollable genetics and circumstances?
Author	chancetolive
Upvotes	65
Comments	123
Date	April 24, 2022 3:01 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/uawm8e/what_exactly_forms_a_man_into_a_natural_ignoring/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-exactly-forms-a-man-into-a-natural-ignoring.1111319 https://theredarchive.com/post/1111319

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