Women largely objectify themselves for validation and profit and pretend it's empowering.

cromulent_weasel · 2023-06-06T20:21:20+00:00

I think that conflating 'women' and 'instagram thirst traps' is a mistake.

It's equivalent to conflating 'men' with 'rapists'.

Lolabird2112 · 2023-06-06T15:51:50+00:00

From the time we hit puberty (and often before that) men start groping us, catcalling and all the rest of the creepy shit they do. It’s not “power”, it’s the opposite: you’re now an object that men will look at and comment on, whether this attention is wanted or not.

Women who post thirst traps or whatever else you’re bitter about are usually the opposite of insecure. Some like attention, some don’t, if you don’t like it then don’t look at them. It’s not complicated.

Stop moaning about OF. I don’t think it’s empowering, but since there’s a market, I don’t care if a woman decides to earn money from it. You’re not being forced to pay for it, so just don’t go onto that website. All you boys seem to stay pretty silent about free porn, funnily enough.

sunrathna · 2023-06-06T19:22:32+00:00

You are being disingenuous and perpetuating a false narrative of the situation. Most women who commodity their body do so because they need money to survive. The media is pushing the narrative women do this for fun and validation. Only sex positive liberal feminist consider this empowering and a select few privalaged "sex worker" consider this empowering as a coping mechanism or paid to do so in those article.

gofigure62 · 2023-06-06T14:57:16+00:00

Historically Human female sexuality was controlled by a woman's owners.

Human female sexuality has always been bought, sold, and bartered by other people, not the woman herself.

This is the first time in human history where women are able to own their own sexuality and access to sex in whatever way that they want. Meaning, that if women want to sell their sex, they have the power and autonomy to do so. If women want to have casual sex, they have the power and autonomy to do so. If women want to have fulfilling sex in a relationship, they have the power and autonomy to do so. If women don't want sex they have the power and autonomy not to engage in it. If women want to masturbate, they have the power and autonomy to do so.

Creation_Soul · 2023-06-06T14:54:18+00:00

as people say "it takes two to tango".

For a lot of cases, a woman could come dressed with a potato sack and some men would still try to hook up with her.

The thing is, for a lot of women the "power of their sexuality" is not really something they can dial to zero. They can work to increase it, but it's almost impossible to turn it to zero.

The fact that they cannot turn it to zero is something women have complained about as men still hit on them even when they do not want to. Basically it's a great power, but it also comes with obvious downsides.

operapeach · 2023-06-06T20:39:13+00:00

Right, yep.

And who created onlyfans? Who runs the majority of commercial porn studios? Who are the majority of people involved in sex and human trafficking?

Who are the majority of consumers of this stuff? Who develops parasocial relationships w these women?

I’ll give you a hint: it’s men.

90% of prostitutes (who are actually sex workers and putting their lives on the line every day) want to exit. Every porn star who’s exited says it was the worst experience of her life. Women “pretend” these things are empowering because there’s no other way to cope.

Men involving themselves in feminism and trying to control it is the biggest reason these things have blown up. MEN took advantage of sex positivity and the sexual liberation movement for their own gain. MEN repackaged degradation and misogyny into empowerment. There are women who are stupid enough or desperate enough to drink this koolaid, but cmon.

There is no market without demand.

SerpentCypher · 2023-06-06T15:01:45+00:00

Sexual objectification is not the only form of objectification.

Its the only one the west cares about because its the only kind that primarily affects women. And most of the time it doesn't even fit the requirements.

Men finding women physically attractive is not objectification, men commenting on finding women physically attractive is not objectification.

Women dressing up provocatively for certain men only to be disgusted when other men notice is not objectification.

Besides this is heavily debated in female/feminist spaces anyway. Ever heard the term SWERF? It stands for sex work exclusionary radical feminist. Some women think sex work and being a slut and the sexual revolution is women being free and fighting "the patriarchy". Others think it's literally playing into what men want and is therfore enforcing patriarchy.

Novadina · 2023-06-06T15:35:59+00:00

Women understand from the time they hit puberty, just how powerful their sexuality is.

Really? I don’t think I understood any such thing at 12! I don’t even think I know what “power” my “sexuality” ever had even to this day? Is there a class on how to use this awesome power?

They gain this power without any effort and spend the rest of their lives trying to get it back when they get older.

Wait, you think 12 year olds are super powerful and then at some age we lose it (what age is that, 18?) and spend the rest of our lives trying to get this 12 year old super power????

Women like to pretend it’s all empowering and men are just angry that they are not the ones in control of profiting from women’s sexuality anymore. Objectification is still objectification no matter who is doing it and women are doing it to themselves now.

So? How would that mean men aren’t angry because they used to be the ones to profit by pimping, and now women don’t need a pimp? If women are being objectified anyway, what’s the problem with profiting from it?

I’m also not sure it’s possible to “objectify yourself”. How is doing a job by supplying something that is in demand (porn) seeing yourself as an object? I’m not in porn, but I still trade 40 hours a week of my labor in exchange for money, is that objectifying myself, do I only see myself as an object to be used by my employer? I mean, they do kind of see me that way. But I also need money to live in this country. Is it somehow only if your job involves nudity that suddenly that mamas people they see themselves as an object?

Ok-Put3239 · 2023-06-06T16:13:41+00:00

Darn didn’t know I wanted unwanted advances at the ripe age of 7 when I was at the park. Also I had no idea I was so powerful at age 12 when grown men were literally trying to r@pe me.

Former_Molasses_7073 · 2023-06-06T14:50:47+00:00

Disagree, sexuality is very very empowering for women. It's not fake. It's real.

Women love when a man they find attractive can't resist them. It puts a smile on their face bigger than someone who wins the lottery.

Objectification is still objectification no matter who is doing it and women are doing it to themselves now.

You haven't shown why objectification of self isn't actually empowering. Your attempting to use a moral argument as an ultimatum, not much difference than a communist saying wealth is bad because its bad.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-06-06T17:24:11+00:00

Women appealing to the male gaze isn't "female sexuality" - it's "male sexuality" being mirrored.

Just a little annoyance of mine when I see these things being conflated. Women objectifying themselves for men is somehow"female sexuality", also men objectifying women is "male sexuality". As if women experience no unique attraction of their own. No - they're two sides of the same coin.

And yeah maybe women objectify themselves but men were doing it way before that so why wouldn't some try and monetize it on their own terms in a money hungry capatlist profit-guzzling society. You're bound to get some and it's bound to be eaten up.

Ever heard the saying "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"? Women selling themselves is still a step up from being sold by men.

thetruthishere_ · 2023-06-06T15:52:01+00:00

Im 50. When does mens attention stop?

What am I trying to get back? Old men that chase 22 year olds that are not even in my dating pool?

gate18 · 2023-06-06T18:31:11+00:00

Biologically, this is such a strong dynamic because of reproduction and finding a suitable mate.

Yet for all that supposed power the world is run by men. And for all their supposed power they are always on the backfoot.

Because all of this power was gained with no effort expended

Only bought and sold by men for centuries.

many women are highly insecure in themselves.

And men aren't. You have to have campaigns telling them to go to the doctor. They commit more suicides than women, they are more aggressive than women. What are these if not insecurities?

Then there are women who monetize all this on things like Onlyfans.

Why not? We have people selling weapons and throwing them at children but that's **good capitalism. It's supply and demand, those kids demand to be killed. But men aren't demanding to be fans of this service.

Objectification is still objectification no matter who is doing it and women are doing it to themselves now.

You go to work, you aren't a slave. yet work is work...

Most of the traditional ways women have been objectified have become afflicted by woke-ism.

Really?

Worke-ism is stoping women from getting an education?
Worke-ism is forcing them into marriages?
Worke-ism is preventing them from various jobs?

Oh my, why do we sign out?

EugeneCezanne · 2023-06-06T20:43:35+00:00

Uh, validation and profit are empowering.

Objectification is still objectification no matter who is doing it and women are doing it to themselves now.

I don't see why you think this constitutes a point. Women objectify themselves sometimes? Cool. It's their own bodies, so it's their prerogative. It's only when objectification is forced on them that it's a bad thing.

harmonica2 · 2023-06-06T19:26:51+00:00

I actually like that women today find casual sex empowering.

50 years ago people were only having sex in marriage almost all the time and now guys can pursue casual sex with women much more successfully because women have the liberation to do do as well now.

I don't know why guys would criticize women being much more into casual sex now compared to decades ago.

DXBrigade · 2023-06-06T21:06:54+00:00

How is it not empowering if they can literally make a living from it ? Also, for feminists there is no such things as "objectifying yourself".

caobozo · 2023-06-06T14:43:01+00:00

you can't objectify yourself since it's impossible for you to see yourself as anything other than yourself, let alone an object

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-06-06T15:02:30+00:00

Why do you assume it's for you?

toasterchild · 2023-06-06T17:42:36+00:00

The key is the consent part. We don't always get to consent to being sexualized openly.

wtknight · 2023-06-06T15:53:26+00:00

They don’t objectify themselves, but many like the attention that they receive from the high value men who do objectify them. It’s not the same thing, and the hope is that these men will eventually see them as actual people, too.

IMendicantBias · 2023-06-06T17:41:03+00:00

I never understood the gymnastics of sex is empowering yet i don't feel confident or proud saying how many people i sleep with. So obviously you aren't empowered.....

MotleyCrew1989 · 2023-06-06T18:15:23+00:00

There is only one thing you need to understand about women behaviour:

"its only bad when men do it"

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RocinanteCoffee · 2023-06-07T08:47:28+00:00

Women understand from the time they hit puberty, just how powerful their sexuality is.

It often seemed like a liability not a 'power'.

They gain this power without any effort and spend the rest of their lives trying to get it back when they get older.

Some women actually get a lot less sexual deliberately as they age, I don't think this claim affects a significant portion of the population.

These are no longer concerns for lots of people but the hardwiring, the drives and the influence of female sexuality remain as strong as ever.

Plenty of us don't ever experience this 'hardwiring' you speak of.

many women are highly insecure in themselves.

Everyone has some insecurities, particularly it's common for any gender to have some about aging.

As a result we have women posting thirst traps, going to professional settings like work and school dressed like they would for a club and going to the gym looking like they forgot their pants.

For every woman trying to make their thirst trap page into add revenue there are millions who just show photos of their dog and a weird hat they found on a table at a store, and photos of the ceremony at their cousins wedding.

How someone dressing is perceived is entirely subjective. Different workplaces have different dress codes, so do different schools. People usually wear limited clothing to the gym because not a lot of people like to see sweatstains on their t-shirts and prefer moisture-wicking fabrics. A lot of dudes wear very little to the gym too. Some lift weights in sporty-biker shorts and no shirt. Some women wear sport hot pants and a sports bra. It's pretty normal (and practical). Look at Olympic sports and in some people are wearing very little fabric because it makes for better comfort, less bacteria from perspiration growing, and is more practical for physical exertion.

What you consider immodest may be considered a HUGE scandal in Provo, Utah, and conservative on Miami Beach.

Then there are women who monetize all this on things like Onlyfans.

Less than 5% of women on OF make enough to even pay for a power bill much less support themselves.

Women like to pretend it's all empowering

To some it's empowering, to some it's just a job. A job where some even making risque streams on OF still feel it's better return on investment than their previous job. Some don't.

Most strippers don't love their work... but they much, much prefer it to working in an office or in customer service, and make more money that way. Plenty will note they get more protection from creeps from security in the club than they ever did when they worked at a restaurant as a server.

Most of the traditional ways women have been objectified have become afflicted by woke-ism. Sports Illustrated and Victoria's Secret feature obese models, for example.

Victoria's Secret isn't on some crusade, they just know that most women and men in the US are fat most men and women in the US are having sex with fat people, and these people have cash. They market to fat women so fat women can see themselves in that lingerie and buy it. They're after their wallets not their respect. Victoria's Secret still has most of their models underweight.

"Traditional" women also had portraits made and sent to men, and also sent photographs via the mail in decades past. They had sketches of themselves with huge cleavage showing put in lockets and sent out to the highest bidder, sometimes in secret, sometimes by direction of their parents.

Peacesquad · 2023-06-06T17:41:53+00:00

But what about cheerleaders, hooters waitresses, strip clubs, twin peak workers? I thought women were told to dress like that to be able to do said job? And women posting bikini photos and going to the gym in tight clothing, don’t they do that for themselves and never men? I’m confused

Plazmatron44 · 2023-06-06T16:44:14+00:00

Look up a you tube channel called Kendra the Viking and notice how once the husband stopped appearing in the off grid living videos it became more and more sexualised until she flat out flashes having an only fans in you face if you so much as look at the thumbnail.

96tillinfinity_ · 2023-06-07T14:22:56+00:00

Women’s only true bargaining chip is their sexuality and they know this at a conscious and subconscious level

This is why so many marriages become sexually dead after marriage/children

They take sex off the table when they please/want things done their way

Title	Women largely objectify themselves for validation and profit and pretend it's empowering.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	92
Comments	160
Date	June 6, 2023 2:01 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/142h1zk/women_largely_objectify_themselves_for_validation/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-largely-objectify-themselves-for-validation.1221465 https://theredarchive.com/post/1221465

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