Whats the point of monogamy and emotional attachment?

Choice-Substance-183 · 2024-03-17T02:38:11+00:00

Someone to enjoy life with. Someone to go on adventures with. Someone to giggle with at night before bed. Someone to cherish. Someone to make inside jokes with. Someone to love you back.

EulenWatcher · 2024-03-17T03:01:01+00:00

It's up to an individual to decide whether it's worth for them or not. Not everyone is cut out for life-long relationships and not everyone feels the drive to pursue it and it's fine. Others are very family-oriented and/or they want to have a partner for life which is also fine. Whatever suits you better depends on your personality and goals.

For me being with my husband makes my life better than being on my own. Yeah, marriage requires time and efforts and sometimes it takes lots of both, but it's still worth it. I love him, I enjoy his company and I know that I can rely on him when I need it. It's not that there's a particular "point" in it, it's just that it's the way I want to live and I'm ready to go great lengths for him.

Mental_Leek_2806 · 2024-03-17T04:18:54+00:00

My brother in christ, to live is to experience loss and suffering. Especially if you are young, please tread lightly in subs like this. The meaning of life is to love, to form connections and families/communities with others. The transience and risk of these connections only makes them more beautiful.

“and when nobody wakes you up in the morning, and when nobody waits for you at night, and when you can do whatever you want. what do you call it, freedom or loneliness?”

― Charles Bukowski

Please do not let a desire for detachment and a fear of taking risks prevent you from living a beautiful life. We all must fall.

srfm24 · 2024-03-17T04:28:52+00:00

It’s mostly so that you don’t end up alone at a time later in life, when no matter how hard you try, you simply can’t find a partner. Dating in your 40s and 50s is a goddamn disaster. It’s a better idea to find a good person, invest in them, settle down with them, start a family, and later in life you have a family so that you are not lonesome. Life after 45 gets extremely lonely for people who don’t have families.

jazzmaster1992 · 2024-03-17T02:45:49+00:00

I'm super jaded when it comes to relationships, but even I can see that a quality partnership with the right person is probably pretty amazing and makes life so much better. Unfortunately, not everyone gets to experience it without dealing with prior bad experiences and some people will never feel it at all.

All things considered, a large amount of good partnerships and families are a product of an emotionally healthy society, in which people have stable upbringings and solid relationship skills, but we are so far removed from that it's not even funny.

Ambitious_Mix3233 · 2024-03-17T08:47:28+00:00

Human beings are biologically programmed to require emotional attachment with others. If an infant is born and doesn’t have any attachment with a mother or father, if they don’t build an emotional connection with someone, they won’t survive. That’s the reason for emotional attachment. Monogamy being programmed into us is debated. This being said, I have never seen an open relationship or consensual non monogamy work well long term. Ever. Humans historically have more success by pair bonding, and it’s been a staple of society because it works.

MistyMaisel · 2024-03-17T13:09:42+00:00

My boyfriend and I are unironically each other's best friends and have an absolute rager of a time together pretty much all the time. I'm not struggling with some nebulous hypergamy and he's not wishing he was poly. Most people really do enjoy having one person to attach to, love, cherish, and share farts in bed with.

no_usernameeeeeee · 2024-03-17T02:32:33+00:00

Monogamy is what helped shape society. Nuclear families & marriage are mostly useful for society as a whole. It’s helped our civilization evolve to what it is today. Marriages were essentially contracts between families and it still is a contract today.

I think wanting a long term relationship is completely normal if two people enjoy each other and attachment is a completely normal human need because we are social animals and that has also helped us. If attachment didn’t exist, people wouldn’t help each other or care for each other. It’s an incredibly important and good thing, but it’s kind of a high risk high reward thing. If you get attached to the wrong person, that will make you suffer but it doesn’t mean everyone you’ll ever be attached to will do the same. Heartbreak is part of life at the end of the day.

Learning how to let go and detach is just as important as attachment. If you don’t master that, than it won’t be a healthy attachment and you are more likely to suffer. If you don’t have any attachment you are likely to feel dull & disconnected from people which is still a form of suffering and an incredibly sad way to live considering you have one life.

But yeah, aside from the philosophy, monogamy provides structure which human beings need.

OuterPaths · 2024-03-17T03:23:41+00:00

If the way you orient yourself to life and the world is with game theory, yes, do that. But worse than losing out on meaning with that model, you presuppose it doesn't even exist.

ConanTheCybrarian · 2024-03-17T04:35:12+00:00

If it is by nature that women are hypergamous and men are polygamous (according to evolutionary psychology)

Without mentioning Jordan Peterson, please share how evopsych has shown this to be natural, with certainty.

Also- TRP seems to forget that

The term "Hypergamy" when used in the social sciences (including evopsych) has historically ONLY referred to marriage. The act of marrying someone of higher wealth or social status than the one the person was born into.
Historically, women did not choose their partners, their fathers did. So it was men who were being hypergamous on their daughters' behalfs, not the women (who had no agency).
In true hypergamy, what TRP would call "betas" are better choices for LTRs than "alphas." Women don't consider what TRP calls "alphas" to be alpha at all.

So, as you share your research, please remember that

A. any psychological study that shows "hypergamy" prior to about 2015, 2010 if I'm being generous, will only be referring to the act of marrying for higher status, not casual sexual relationships.

B. Anything prior to the 1960s (US specific) will not show a true preference on the part of the women as they did not typically have either the literal or social freedom to make these choices.

But if you could share the evopsych data that says women are by nature hypergamous and that hypergamy means they will not be monogamous, I'd love to review it and respond accordingly. (to save you time: what I'm asking for doesn't exist).

Ignoring the bad JP "science" the answer to your question is simple:

Being attached creates vulnerability and interdependence. These are the only ways to be fully known and loved for who you are. All humans crave (arguably need) these things. That's the point. Plus, it's nice to have a partner to do life with. Many people are successfully monogamous but you aren't hearing about them in the manosphere because it's harder to sell things to people who are content with life.

Safinated · 2024-03-17T05:20:34+00:00

Kids

Most_Read_1330 · 2024-03-17T08:32:11+00:00

Most men are not polygamous. It's more that women aren't interested in a lifelong monogamous relationship as they get bored easily.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-03-17T13:16:37+00:00

You finds someone that makes you happier when they are around and you do stuff together. And that makes you both happier and more connected to each other.

It’s really that simple

Defundisraelnow · 2024-03-17T14:57:07+00:00

The point is to build a stable relationship to raise children in, because children benefit most from having both biology parents and their extended family in the picture.

Secure-Ad-421 · 2024-03-17T17:43:20+00:00

So you know how this whole dating thing is kind of hell for a lot of people? When you’re monogamous, you get to live life without having to interact with that at all. All that time you’re spending trying to connect with people is no longer spent there. Of course, that time is going toward a relationship so it’s not like you get it back exactly. But if you have a great relationship where you’re working toward something together, it’s not really a sacrifice- love what you do and you’ll never work a day in your life. That kind of idea.

You can suffer loss, sure- but all good things can be lost. Avoiding the potential for loss is avoiding good things.

volleyballbeach · 2024-03-18T23:48:09+00:00

For me, companionship, trust, love, support, romance. Especially supporting each others goals mutually and being each others biggest cheerleader. As for why I prefer it be monogamous, because I get jealous and want my guy all to myself and when I’m in love I don’t want a different guy anyway.

I’d rather get attached and get my heart broke than never fall in love. If my current relationship fails, I’ll take a few years to heal and be open to the possibility again.

ArpeggioTheUnbroken · 2024-03-17T02:35:08+00:00

There are many points to it but if you want to look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, it could be said that maintaining a single relationship ensures the survival of your genes.

If the man is committed to one woman, he can spend all of his resources on protecting and caring for the woman and their children. Caveman brain would more likely be willing to protect and care for their own children, thus ensuring their own genes are passed on.

If a woman is committed to one man, he can be sure that it is his line that will survive instead of sacrificing for someone else's child so she and her children will be more likely to be protected and cared for by the man.

That is completely from an evolutionary mindset and does not take into account the many other reasons monogamy and attachments are good.

Dr_Click_Click_Boom · 2024-03-17T02:45:25+00:00

Historically the point of monogamy and marriage was to create the optimal environment to raise children.

DumbWordsmith · 2024-03-17T03:09:12+00:00

If it is by nature...

By nature? If humans didn't control many of their "natural" urges, civilized society wouldn't exist.

Everyone should have the right to determine what's best for themselves, but IMO stable, monogamous relationships provide the best outcomes for children and society. Therefore, I think they should be encouraged.

Tywinlol · 2024-03-17T03:25:06+00:00

For men there is no benefit at all. It doesn't guarantee you sex, companionship, loyalty or even access to your own children. You will only be guaranteed obligations, zero power and no reciprocation from her. So avoid at any and all cost. Commitment is a carrot you wave in front of female, but the moment you give it to her you turn into her slave. Of course for females its the opposite.

So avoid monogamy and don't get attached. Remember she is not yours its just your turn. Anything commitment will get you as man, you can get for fraction of the cost outside of the relationship.

AutoModerator · 2024-03-17T02:27:11+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

PMmeareasontolive · 2024-03-17T03:19:51+00:00

For some people relationships get more interesting when there is trust built up over time with another person. They feel they can be more genuinely themselves, and even make attempts to be the best version of themselves.

My analogy is this - you know how people can have a bad experience and the trauma becomes anchored in their psyche, so that it's ready to re-emerge if triggered? Or maybe it's always present underneath everything, even when things are going well it's still humming away somewhere in the background? ...A good relationship can create experiences that are the opposite of that; good experiences that become part of you and are always playing in the background. Rewiring neural pathways in positive ways is probably best done through positive experience.

SoPolitico · 2024-03-17T03:36:16+00:00

Men are not by nature polygamous, not sure where you are getting that from.

just_a_place · 2024-03-17T03:36:47+00:00

Child rearing and societal building.

Two people (and their network, resources, skills, and combined energy) are much better at taking care of kids, and providing them every advantage possible, than just one alone.

This isn't Rocket Surgery.

TRTGymBro · 2024-03-17T03:39:31+00:00

Because hypergamy and polygamy/polygyny are normal phenomena that are taken to an extreme by whatever mano or femo sphere you choose to listen to. It's like saying all animals are viscous and will kill anything in their path with zero emotion or empathy. Anyone who has ever owned pets knows that they do have a dark side and cats and dogs can kill small, innocent creatures, but they also know pets have emotions and empathy too.

But to specifically answer your question. The point is for two people to get together for long enough to raise a healthy child and give it a good start in life so it actually survives.

grillopie · 2024-03-17T03:47:30+00:00

“according to evolutionary psychology” how? evolutionary psychology isn’t very predictive. it needs to explain currently observable behaviors. so if men aren’t polygamous everywhere, and women aren’t hypergamous everywhere, its not explainable by evolutionary psychology as being in their nature.

in reality people are some mix of polygamous and monogamous. though it seems the monogamous part has predominated for a long while.

you can’t convince someone who doesn’t think its worth it to be monogamous otherwise. the only point in being monogamous is because you want to.

Dramatic-Ad7687 · 2024-03-17T03:58:30+00:00

is it beneficial at all

Yes.

AngelCrumb · 2024-03-17T05:10:39+00:00

Monogamy isn't natural for humans, as humans do not imprint or mate for life. It is a social construct that began to dominate during the agricultural era, getting progressively more strict, especially with the spread of Abrahamic religions throughout Europe. Marriage, of course, has existed far longer, but it's a common misconception that marriage has always been a monogamous union. The Celts, for example, had many different types of marriage, and not all of them were lifetime commitments.

Emotional attachment can exist without monogamy, but since sex and monogamy are so socially intertwined, it can be difficult for people to separate the two. One example of this might be close friends, who have had on and off periods of sexual relations but remain thick as thieves. Is it common? No, but it can happen.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2024-03-17T09:15:27+00:00

All the data shows thay it is the happiest setting for both men and women. It's one of many situations where it's benificcial to control your immediate desires for long term happiness.

uglysaladisugly · 2024-03-17T10:35:34+00:00

If it is by nature that women are hypergamous and men are polygamous (according to evolutionary psychology)

Well, first, I don't think any serious evolutionary psychology work (if it really exists) actually say something so square...

Any way evo psy conclusions aren't scientific truth... they are hypotetical models which predictions are extremely difficult to test.

Any model is by definition incomplete and simplistic to a degree. But some are definitely more exact than other. More importantly, in science, models cam be wrond in a lot of way but usually works for what we used them for.

The orbital model of the atom is simplistic and plain wrong in a lot of way, it still works perfectly when you use it for any kind of chemistry. It's prediction are precise, correct and testable.

Here, you can see that evo psy models prediction is contradicting something we SEE in the exact field it is supposed to explain. Tells you a lot on this "science".

Now to answer your question more.

First, it is pretty obvious, that as a specie, we are NOT hardwired for monogamy. To be faire very very few animals truly are, it's mostly birds and we actually discover more and more that most species we considered absolutely monogam tend to cheat if given the opportunity.

But, we are definitely hardwired to have a deep feeling of contempt toward social bounds. Our emotions are definitely hardwired to reward us with nice feelings when we see others happy, when we see people help each others, when we see actions of care, and to punish us with pain and disgust when we see others suffering, or when we witness injustice, etc.

Human kids are veeeeeeeery long and costly to raise. If they don't learn the ins and outs of the cultural norm, language, etc. of the group their in, they're basically as good as dead. We raise them cooperatively, like most social mammals do to some extent. In primate, all males and all females live together, which is quite the exception in most social mammals.

In this case, it is easy to imagine, that for males, taking a specifically good care of the youngs of the female he's currently fucking the most will increase the probability that the kids are his and that they're PARTICULARLY well taken care of. Now if you mix that with the fact we are probably hardwired to connect easily with others and to form deep bounds, it's easy to imagine that this naturally lead to couples forming at least in some ways and in some extent of "long term".

Human socialization is complex EVEN if we JUST consider the primate part of it.

Now add the cultural environment and you get nonsensical thing like your post.

Nature is not well made, it's a mess, what exist is the result of several different pressure acting upon different traits in different directions. The outcomes often contradict each others.

MisterFunnyShoes · 2024-03-17T10:41:40+00:00

The point of desire and attachment is Continuation of the species.

Monogamy is a social technology which facilitates continuation of civilization.

What does it mean to you?

Only you can know that.

rma5690 · 2024-03-17T15:36:18+00:00

Raising children more effectively. That's the objectively correct answer. Anyone that tells you otherwise is part of the problem. We need to engage with the biological mechanisms in place with sexual interaction if we want to unfuck dating issues.

apresonly · 2024-03-17T16:17:07+00:00

we're not robots and life is about pleasure and wonder and meaning as much as it is about bare survival.

hardlander · 2024-03-17T17:18:11+00:00

ChatGPT can give better answers than all of you:

"Proponents of monogamy often argue that it provides stability, consistency, and a strong family structure, which they believe are beneficial for children's development. They may argue that having two committed parents who are focused on raising a child together can provide a nurturing environment that fosters emotional security, support, and guidance.

However, it's essential to recognize that the quality of parenting, the strength of the relationship between parents, and various other factors play significant roles in child upbringing. Monogamy is not the sole determinant of a child's well-being.

In non-monogamous or polyamorous relationships, children can also thrive when provided with love, care, and stability from multiple caregivers. The key factor is the presence of supportive and attentive caregivers who prioritize the child's needs.

Ultimately, whether monogamy is deemed "better" for child upbringing is subjective and dependent on various factors. What matters most is the presence of a loving and supportive environment that meets the child's emotional, physical, and psychological needs, regardless of the relationship structure of the caregivers."

Ok-Dust-4156 · 2024-03-17T20:06:50+00:00

You can "close" the problem of having a partner and focus on other things.

obviousredflag · 2024-03-18T12:28:57+00:00

If it is by nature that women are hypergamous and men are polygamous (according to evolutionary psychology),

Why would you go by evolutionary psychology when you can assess mating behavior of people RIGHT NOW?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1533-8525.2004.tb02311.x

"In summary, theories suggest that educational assortative mating is largely influenced by the available pool of partners in the relationship market, which limits partner selection opportunities and thereby affects the educational composition of relationships, regardless of individual preferences. In recent years, many studies have found evidence of this ongoing process in Europe. Esteve, García-Román, and Permanyer examine census data from 56 countries, 11 of them European, focusing on the association between female educational advantage and the number of hypergamous relationships (2012). For all the countries they find strong evidence that the two are associated: that is, as the average level of women’s education grows hypergamy begins to decline, and traditional marriages are outnumbered by educationally hypogamous couples. This is supported by Esteve et al., with an extended roster of countries (2016). Results of this study suggest not only that women increasingly participate in tertiary education and partner hypogamously, but also that Europe is spearheading this change in assortative mating patterns. Esteve et al. also find signs of the consequences of this structural change: in the 27 examined European countries, women become main breadwinners more frequently, and egalitarian attitudes are more prominent. Finally, De Hauw, Grow, and Van Bavel employ multilevel analysis to unravel the link between the emerging educational gender gap and changes in educational assortative mating in Europe (2017). Their descriptive results show that in older cohorts, homogamy is most common, followed by hypergamy, and while homogamy retains its dominance, hypogamy has become widespread in most of the 28 nations by the youngest examined cohort (1970‒1979)."

The ones who attach the most are the ones who suffer the most, while the dettached people dont seem to bother at all. So isnt better not to have attachments of any kind?

Because how much people suffer from not fucking other women varies quite a lot and depends on sociosexual restrictedness among many other factors. Not being attached comes at a price too: not having the opportunity to experience the joys of being attached. How much a breaking of attachment hurts people is also very variable. Some get into a depression and hardly recover, being scarred for life. For others it's just a minor road bump and they would attach 100% to someone, even if they knew it would just last for a year.

AnonPinkLady · 2024-03-18T22:22:18+00:00

Think of it liking going to the same barber every time you cut your hair. You could change to a different hair stylist at any time but you don’t because they do it just right every time. You trust them. If they cut it different one day you tell them to make a change next time and they listen and adjust to your preferences. You hear that there’s a stylist down the street but some people don’t like them because their skill level is notably dodgy and some of their hair cuts look choppy and uneven. Why would you make the switch when you have a barber you go to who does it right every time? That’s how I feel about monogamy. My partner is like a specialist. No one can love me like him. Why would I want anyone else?

Sharp_Platform8958 · 2024-03-21T01:18:48+00:00

It keeps men in check and gets their income put back in to the economy. None of the useless shit we have would ever get purchased by a single man. It's all about keeping the men working and keeping the dollars flowing.

funfacts_82 · 2024-03-17T02:55:43+00:00

It really depends on your goals. If you want to have children and leave something behind then it's the most balanced environment for them to grow up. I assume that's the top reason for the average couple.

wtknight · 2024-03-17T02:32:06+00:00

I guess that it's nice to have someone jealous about you and to be jealous over someone else. That's the way I see it. I wouldn't want my wife having sex with other men and she wouldn't me having sex with other women. Hence, we're monogamous since we like being with each other a lot. I would think that the motivations of other monogamous couples are similar, while others who prefer open relationships don't "suffer" from jealousy.

Title	Whats the point of monogamy and emotional attachment?
Author	srfm24
Upvotes	5
Comments	208
Date	March 17, 2024 2:27 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1bgmt29/whats_the_point_of_monogamy_and_emotional/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-the-point-of-monogamy-and-emotional.1426287 https://theredarchive.com/post/1426287

Comments